Giving witness, a stunning insight into the case on the ground, recommended viewing for anyone vaguely interested in the case.

A good read to the background to the USA's support for israel is "The last Crusdae" by Barbara Victor if you have time

Although a bit partisan, it does explore the internal politics of the US that is pivotal to the middle east situtation. Youse Mericans probabaly already know this, but for non mericans, its a very interesting read.I dont want to get bogged down in a discussion here, but if you do come aross it, definately have a peek

Expand on that please?.

Nuart, why don't you go boycott fascist regimes instead of littering these walls with your propaganda. Better yet, why don't you go donate your time to hamas and help them build more tunnels for their terrorists. 

i deleted them, i was upset with myself for answering such stupidity. these terrorist get millions upon millions of dollars in aid every year and spend it on over 30 tunnels at a cost of over 1 million each, instead of building their communities and providing their people with a future.

This isnt even a debate, they openly admit it and explain in their charter, they put the death of jews both in israel and worldwide first above all, refuse to negotiate "jihad" is the only answer and further say that death by terrorist act or other, is the ultimate. read a little and maybe you can change your username

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

 

Banksy, Faile, Swoon, Ron English, Blu, Ericilcane, Insect, Mark jenkins, Know Hope.. just a few of the artists to have used the wall as a canvas to produce work protesting its very existence and in support of the Palestinian cause. Buy the work, support their values. Hence #boycottisrael and its relationship to this forum, many of who joined because of Banksy and his work in Palestine with the ghetto in 2006.

I have read the above posts and  when both sides are saying 'you cannot negotiate with these people they are all. . .' The accusation of Fascist is to proven. I hope there are still enough people who think left that the solution does not become that we build a wall round them ALL and shell them into oblivion.

  ?

after the wall was build the number of suicides attacks dropped significantly - so it will be very hard to make a good case to take it down

we should let this thread alone

I was also pm'ed by other board members on similar threads that these things never go anywhere - just a bunch of copy and pasted stuff that you find all over the internet - usually comes down to a new form of anti-semitism

To all the Israeli apologists....one simple question ,if I may.

What type of barbaric action by Israel would it take before you accepted that its cruelty to a whole nation of people was unacceptable and worthy of being pissed off and no longer worth defending?

Odds on, no matter what you reply(and I know you wouldn't dare...) the IDF has already done it.

You lot make me sick.

!

Actually this has become an argument about art.

Statements like; 'these people are all the same', are an attack on everything that we consider art.
How can you value art if it not the work of an individual mind or minds? If you look at the above posts we find arguments like 'a billion people just want the same thing'. That is bollox of the first order! It is a denial of individuality and once you let that go without being challenged then you have no argument against racism that all of a race are all the same, we do not have to look at what the individual is like he or she is just part of a race. It is interesting that those in support of the Israeli government's actions use these arguments like the presumption every Palestinian is a paid up member of Hamas, this is a denial of individuality and patently not true. However once the argument is made and not challenged; that this set of people are all the same, that argument can then be used for all people. As such the very argument being used to justify the Israeli government's position that those people are all scum creates the fertile ground which justifies anti-Semitism, because what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

So lets look at what is happening in reality it is in the interests of those in control to create a vision of an enemy that is fanatical, because it then justifies all the controller's actions however inept corrupt or just plain evil. because to say anything against what you may see as your own sides leadership means that these leaders can then blame you for breaking ranks and siding with the enemy, as has been used on a number of Rabbis that were on the march in London.

In the rocket attacks Hamas will not fire the rockets from its own head quarters will it, knowing the Israeli government has directed that the army will fire back at the position where the rocket is fired from. The Hamas leadership gets the rockets to be fired from schools hospitals and from homes of Palestinians that are not totally behind Hamas. However the Israeli army knows this but still is happy to fire at the innocent. We know this but let the two sides get away with just blaming each other. The truth is that it is in the interest of both governments to create ever more fanatical supporters, because the voices that challenge these leaders are then drowned out by the fanatics. That means the leadership of Hamas and Israel are both working together to crush the innocent.
When civil rights campaign started in Northern Ireland of which I had friends involved, the first people burnt out of their homes were not the IRA supporters or those of the UDA but it was families with mixed marriages. Yes this is always the way controlling groups that want to retain control by means of war work. They always first attack the moderating voices with feet in both camps that could calm things down.

If we now look at the traditional view of what an artist is; somebody who stands on the edge of society and can reflect their view back to show people what their society is like, we can see that the complicit attacks on the moderates those not in perfect tune with the powers that be is an attack on art itself.
And that is just what the Hamas and Israeli leaderships are doing.

As such not to talk about this is anti-Semitic and Islamophobic (even if the board members who have posted have mentioned only one side).

The voice of the individual should not be silenced, for once it is there is no art.