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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Coach on Nov 6, 2014 22:14:51 GMT 1, Am I alone in my real concerns about this?
It's a fairly huge infringement of our human rights, the right to privacy and the fundamental right that communications with our lawyers is private.
I'm very worried! It's a very slippery slope.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29939192
From the BBC site:
Rachel Logan, Amnesty UK's legal advisor, said it "clearly violates an age-old principle of English law set down in the 16th Century - that the correspondence between a person and their lawyer is confidential".
Liberty's director of policy, Isabella Sankey, said the "explosive disclosure" made a "sham" of the privileged relationship between lawyer and client and undermined the fairness of cases involving the state.
Conservative MP David Davis described it as a "national scandal".
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11213755/MI5-and-GCHQ-documents-allow-spying-on-lawyers.html
Am I alone in my real concerns about this? It's a fairly huge infringement of our human rights, the right to privacy and the fundamental right that communications with our lawyers is private. I'm very worried! It's a very slippery slope. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29939192From the BBC site: Rachel Logan, Amnesty UK's legal advisor, said it "clearly violates an age-old principle of English law set down in the 16th Century - that the correspondence between a person and their lawyer is confidential". Liberty's director of policy, Isabella Sankey, said the "explosive disclosure" made a "sham" of the privileged relationship between lawyer and client and undermined the fairness of cases involving the state. Conservative MP David Davis described it as a "national scandal". www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11213755/MI5-and-GCHQ-documents-allow-spying-on-lawyers.html |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 22:30:18 GMT 1, Am I alone in my real concerns about this? It's a fairly huge infringement of our human rights, the right to privacy and the fundamental right that communications with our lawyers is private. I'm very worried! It's a very slippery slope. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29939192From the BBC site: Rachel Logan, Amnesty UK's legal advisor, said it "clearly violates an age-old principle of English law set down in the 16th Century - that the correspondence between a person and their lawyer is confidential". Liberty's director of policy, Isabella Sankey, said the "explosive disclosure" made a "sham" of the privileged relationship between lawyer and client and undermined the fairness of cases involving the state. Conservative MP David Davis described it as a "national scandal". www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11213755/MI5-and-GCHQ-documents-allow-spying-on-lawyers.html
All that you were brought up to believe was there for your well-being and safety has since been shown to be a massive f***ing lie.
Am I alone in my real concerns about this? It's a fairly huge infringement of our human rights, the right to privacy and the fundamental right that communications with our lawyers is private. I'm very worried! It's a very slippery slope. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29939192From the BBC site: Rachel Logan, Amnesty UK's legal advisor, said it "clearly violates an age-old principle of English law set down in the 16th Century - that the correspondence between a person and their lawyer is confidential". Liberty's director of policy, Isabella Sankey, said the "explosive disclosure" made a "sham" of the privileged relationship between lawyer and client and undermined the fairness of cases involving the state. Conservative MP David Davis described it as a "national scandal". www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11213755/MI5-and-GCHQ-documents-allow-spying-on-lawyers.htmlWith you on this one coach. And sadly another scandal to add to the list, which includes police corruption, lies, banking incompetence/greed, establishment cover-ups, and so on ad infinitum. All that you were brought up to believe was there for your well-being and safety has since been shown to be a massive f***ing lie. |
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sparky999
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 6, 2014 22:31:32 GMT 1, It's beyond disgusting - people should be protesting in the streets, but then again they should have been when Snowden first released his info. It just seems like most people don't understand the basic requirements of freedom or perhaps a majority of people no longer desire to be free.
It's beyond disgusting - people should be protesting in the streets, but then again they should have been when Snowden first released his info. It just seems like most people don't understand the basic requirements of freedom or perhaps a majority of people no longer desire to be free.
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johnnyh
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 4:10:51 GMT 1, Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! 
Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!!
Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !!
one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught
Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!! Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !! one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught |
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sparky999
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 9:21:06 GMT 1, Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!! Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !! one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught
Whilst I absolutely respect your right to express an opinion - it is my opinion that people who are so inept as to not realise the cost of this intrusion of our basic human rights are the reason we currently live in a corrupt welfare driven society.
I could go on but from experience idiots remain idots no matter how much information you give them.
Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!! Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !! one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught Your only complaint is that GCHQ got caught violating the basic right to privacy with counsel and encroached on the fundamental values of privacy and freedom, something many consider a basic human right? Whilst I absolutely respect your right to express an opinion - it is my opinion that people who are so inept as to not realise the cost of this intrusion of our basic human rights are the reason we currently live in a corrupt welfare driven society. I could go on but from experience idiots remain idots no matter how much information you give them. |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 9:59:16 GMT 1, Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!! Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !! one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught Your only complaint is that GCHQ got caught violating the basic right to privacy with counsel and encroached on the fundamental values of privacy and freedom, something many consider a basic human right? Whilst I absolutely respect your right to express an opinion - it is my opinion that people who are so inept as to not realise the cost of this intrusion of our basic human rights are the reason we currently live in a corrupt welfare driven society. I could go on but from experience idiots remain idots no matter how much information you give them. 
Not sure that it should be such a big surprise that the country's secret spying agency has been spying in secret!!! Would tend to suggest that either they don't do it very much or they are not very good at it as they do tend to lose the cases!!! Which I suppose is supported by the fact that they have been caught and its on the BBC !! one would have hoped that the countries top secret spy's would spy and no one would know..which is the whole point I suppose so my complaint is that the incompetents got caught Your only complaint is that GCHQ got caught violating the basic right to privacy with counsel and encroached on the fundamental values of privacy and freedom, something many consider a basic human right? Whilst I absolutely respect your right to express an opinion - it is my opinion that people who are so inept as to not realise the cost of this intrusion of our basic human rights are the reason we currently live in a corrupt welfare driven society. I could go on but from experience idiots remain idots no matter how much information you give them. In my experience idiots usually fail to understand irony or sarcasm? |
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balibob
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November 2010
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by balibob on Nov 7, 2014 10:50:12 GMT 1, I'm a bit torn on this. GCHQ is an intelligence gathering organization, who's primary function is to listen and intercept electronic correspondence. They do it to everyone and we all know that. Now I know that lawyers are generally held in almost reverence in this country and are well known for being almost pretty much beyond reproach, almost to the level of estate agents, but why should they be exempt from the same intrusions as us?. Personally, as I'm not currently planning to subvert the government or blow someone up, I'm pretty sure that they aren't the slightest bit interested in my emails and conversations with my shyster, sorry lawyer, and if they are, I hope they are as bored to death as I am.
I'm a bit torn on this. GCHQ is an intelligence gathering organization, who's primary function is to listen and intercept electronic correspondence. They do it to everyone and we all know that. Now I know that lawyers are generally held in almost reverence in this country and are well known for being almost pretty much beyond reproach, almost to the level of estate agents, but why should they be exempt from the same intrusions as us?. Personally, as I'm not currently planning to subvert the government or blow someone up, I'm pretty sure that they aren't the slightest bit interested in my emails and conversations with my shyster, sorry lawyer, and if they are, I hope they are as bored to death as I am.
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sparky999
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October 2013
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 11:12:24 GMT 1, Communications intercepted by a third party can be misconstrued with out appropriate context.
The threat of terrorism is small - even if we had put zero money and effort into preventing terrorist attacks in the UK/America it's unlikely more than a few thousand people would have been killed as a result. If we had taken that time/money and effort and put it into healthcare/education/medical research we could of saved tens of millions of lives.
To provide the 'safety' we currently enjoy we have had to be ok with torture/detention with out trial/conviction based entirely on hearsay/loss of privacy of communication/ financial privacy and now communication with our lawyers and I assume our doctors as well.
Communications intercepted by a third party can be misconstrued with out appropriate context.
The threat of terrorism is small - even if we had put zero money and effort into preventing terrorist attacks in the UK/America it's unlikely more than a few thousand people would have been killed as a result. If we had taken that time/money and effort and put it into healthcare/education/medical research we could of saved tens of millions of lives.
To provide the 'safety' we currently enjoy we have had to be ok with torture/detention with out trial/conviction based entirely on hearsay/loss of privacy of communication/ financial privacy and now communication with our lawyers and I assume our doctors as well.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 11:41:22 GMT 1, Communications intercepted by a third party can be misconstrued with out appropriate context. The threat of terrorism is small - even if we had put zero money and effort into preventing terrorist attacks in the UK/America it's unlikely more than a few thousand people would have been killed as a result. If we had taken that time/money and effort and put it into healthcare/education/medical research we could of saved tens of millions of lives. To provide the 'safety' we currently enjoy we have had to be ok with torture/detention with out trial/conviction based entirely on hearsay/loss of privacy of communication/ financial privacy and now communication with our lawyers and I assume our doctors as well.
Tis what the secret service is for though and to be fair they are only listening to lawyers who defend terrorists etc and from what I have read only those that have taken them to court. Now if you take M15 to court you've got to expect them to ( how shall we say) make enquires.
They don't do it to your average bloke talking to his lawyer for example if they had eaves dropped on John Terry talking to his lawyer I am pretty sure he would have got more than an 8 game ban.
Communications intercepted by a third party can be misconstrued with out appropriate context. The threat of terrorism is small - even if we had put zero money and effort into preventing terrorist attacks in the UK/America it's unlikely more than a few thousand people would have been killed as a result. If we had taken that time/money and effort and put it into healthcare/education/medical research we could of saved tens of millions of lives. To provide the 'safety' we currently enjoy we have had to be ok with torture/detention with out trial/conviction based entirely on hearsay/loss of privacy of communication/ financial privacy and now communication with our lawyers and I assume our doctors as well. Tis what the secret service is for though and to be fair they are only listening to lawyers who defend terrorists etc and from what I have read only those that have taken them to court. Now if you take M15 to court you've got to expect them to ( how shall we say) make enquires. They don't do it to your average bloke talking to his lawyer for example if they had eaves dropped on John Terry talking to his lawyer I am pretty sure he would have got more than an 8 game ban. |
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sparky999
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October 2013
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 12:35:00 GMT 1, Human rights are for humans - anybody deserves the right to a free and fair trial, privacy of communication with lawyer is paramount to that.
Human rights are for humans - anybody deserves the right to a free and fair trial, privacy of communication with lawyer is paramount to that.
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Cornish Crayon
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December 2007
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Cornish Crayon on Nov 7, 2014 13:06:48 GMT 1, Got nothing to hide, nothing to fear
Que sera sera
No worries
Got nothing to hide, nothing to fear Que sera sera No worries |
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sparky999
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 13:22:39 GMT 1, Got nothing to hide, nothing to fear Que sera sera No worries
Got nothing to hide, nothing to fear Que sera sera No worries Sigh - tragedy of the commons. |
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balibob
Junior Member
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November 2010
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by balibob on Nov 7, 2014 14:37:52 GMT 1, ^ meaning what?
^ meaning what?
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 15:36:12 GMT 1, He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say....
"I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum?"
Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!!
He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say.... "I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum? " Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!! |
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Deleted
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 15:36:29 GMT 1, There are lawyers and there are lawyers.
There are lawyers and there are lawyers.
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johnnyh
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March 2011
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 15:50:41 GMT 1,
Wouldn't worry about the lawyers they will probably get legal aid from the government to take the government to court.
Mi5 will bug the meeting and hear them fiddling their expenses but won't dare say anything otherwise they will know their listening and the whole process will start again.
Do you re kon the Goverment will get legal aid to defend the case that way they will be able to get a better lawyer than they have spies.....a good lawyer never gets caught!!
Wouldn't worry about the lawyers they will probably get legal aid from the government to take the government to court.
Mi5 will bug the meeting and hear them fiddling their expenses but won't dare say anything otherwise they will know their listening and the whole process will start again.
Do you re kon the Goverment will get legal aid to defend the case that way they will be able to get a better lawyer than they have spies.....a good lawyer never gets caught!!
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sparky999
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 15:55:45 GMT 1, Really?
From a singular perspective the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' argument could be considered rational but they are acting out of self-interest and not the long term best interests of the group by gradually depleting the collective freedom and privacy of the community.
There are several logical conclusions to the erosion of privacy/freedom/human rights many of them highly disturbing. These rights were gradually reduced in the name of the war on drugs and not it is being done so in the name of the war on terror. Both of which are futile and a very clearly poor use of the worlds resources. I wasn't joking when I said the war on terror has saved a few thousand lives where as that money could have saved tens of millions of lives if better appropriated.
Really? From a singular perspective the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' argument could be considered rational but they are acting out of self-interest and not the long term best interests of the group by gradually depleting the collective freedom and privacy of the community. There are several logical conclusions to the erosion of privacy/freedom/human rights many of them highly disturbing. These rights were gradually reduced in the name of the war on drugs and not it is being done so in the name of the war on terror. Both of which are futile and a very clearly poor use of the worlds resources. I wasn't joking when I said the war on terror has saved a few thousand lives where as that money could have saved tens of millions of lives if better appropriated. |
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Deleted
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 15:58:12 GMT 1, So no such thing as a crooked lawyer then?
So no such thing as a crooked lawyer then?
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sparky999
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October 2013
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 16:01:10 GMT 1, He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say.... "I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum? " Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!!
Art has historically been a leading light in forming the groundswell of a revolution - discussions about politics/human rights and freedom have every place on an art forum in my opinion.
He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say.... "I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum? " Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!! Art has historically been a leading light in forming the groundswell of a revolution - discussions about politics/human rights and freedom have every place on an art forum in my opinion. |
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Deleted
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 16:05:20 GMT 1, They have a saying in France.
The main hobby of people down here is grassing people up.
GCHSpook doesn't have enough people or resources to go through every phone call or email etc.
They have a saying in France.
The main hobby of people down here is grassing people up.
GCHSpook doesn't have enough people or resources to go through every phone call or email etc.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by johnnyh on Nov 7, 2014 16:10:49 GMT 1, He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say.... "I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum? " Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!! Art has historically been a leading light in forming the groundswell of a revolution - discussions about politics/human rights and freedom have every place on an art forum in my opinion.
So probably best to leave your revolution for a day or two till something else pops up or at least till after the weekend!!
He he your quite right sparky999 .......but as lawyers/barristers often say.... "I put it to you sir....that if the countries lawyers cannot or do not stop this blatant infringement by the crown......what chance or good does it do you shouting about it on an art forum? " Alternatively you could rip up a Banksy in protest!!! Art has historically been a leading light in forming the groundswell of a revolution - discussions about politics/human rights and freedom have every place on an art forum in my opinion. That may well be true but as I say I have a feeling the lawyers can look after themselves!!! So probably best to leave your revolution for a day or two till something else pops up or at least till after the weekend!! |
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Deleted
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 16:13:39 GMT 1, Yes artists have to make a stand.
I'm going to make a difference by boycotting cadmium yellow for a week.
Yes artists have to make a stand.
I'm going to make a difference by boycotting cadmium yellow for a week.
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balibob
Junior Member
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November 2010
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by balibob on Nov 7, 2014 16:56:05 GMT 1,
Really? From a singular perspective the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' argument could be considered rational but they are acting out of self-interest and not the long term best interests of the group by gradually depleting the collective freedom and privacy of the community. There are several logical conclusions to the erosion of privacy/freedom/human rights many of them highly disturbing. These rights were gradually reduced in the name of the war on drugs and not it is being done so in the name of the war on terror. Both of which are futile and a very clearly poor use of the worlds resources. I wasn't joking when I said the war on terror has saved a few thousand lives where as that money could have saved tens of millions of lives if better appropriated.
Really? From a singular perspective the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' argument could be considered rational but they are acting out of self-interest and not the long term best interests of the group by gradually depleting the collective freedom and privacy of the community. There are several logical conclusions to the erosion of privacy/freedom/human rights many of them highly disturbing. These rights were gradually reduced in the name of the war on drugs and not it is being done so in the name of the war on terror. Both of which are futile and a very clearly poor use of the worlds resources. I wasn't joking when I said the war on terror has saved a few thousand lives where as that money could have saved tens of millions of lives if better appropriated. |
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balibob
Junior Member
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November 2010
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by balibob on Nov 7, 2014 17:00:17 GMT 1, Not in the slightest bit smug are you Sparky. This is the normal bullshit spouted out by people who spend most of their time with their head in their rectum looking for the perfect world.
Not in the slightest bit smug are you Sparky. This is the normal bullshit spouted out by people who spend most of their time with their head in their rectum looking for the perfect world.
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sparky999
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October 2013
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by sparky999 on Nov 7, 2014 17:28:53 GMT 1, Not in the slightest bit smug are you Sparky. This is the normal bulls**t spouted out by people who spend most of their time with their head in their rectum looking for the perfect world.
Not in the slightest bit smug are you Sparky. This is the normal bulls**t spouted out by people who spend most of their time with their head in their rectum looking for the perfect world. You can put the keyboard down now and pick up the Playstation controller again. |
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Cornish Crayon
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December 2007
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GCHQ intercepting communications with lawyers!, by Cornish Crayon on Nov 7, 2014 17:30:15 GMT 1, I think your having an argument or maybe even a debate, but seriously I don't give a monkeys, if they have nothing better to do than listen to the trash coming out of my common mouth.................
This is why I'm so anti social media, farcebook etc, because Im too busy getting on with my own life and not getting hooked into gawping at others
I think your having an argument or maybe even a debate, but seriously I don't give a monkeys, if they have nothing better to do than listen to the trash coming out of my common mouth................. This is why I'm so anti social media, farcebook etc, because Im too busy getting on with my own life and not getting hooked into gawping at others |
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