daveart
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February 2008
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Everybody okay in paris?, by daveart on Jan 8, 2015 15:39:59 GMT 1, Thank you to everyone for your opinions.. both the ones with which i agree and the ones with which i disagree. You add value to the situation by openly - freely -without fear of retribution - without fear that someone will shoot you for your opinions - simply talking.
my 2cents. Unless I am mistaken - Hitler is the last "leader" that openly said in France - 'if you write even a cartoon against me i will march in with my people and eradicate you and those who help you' . This was not so very long ago. I am pretty sure you all know how effective peaceful demonstrations would have been against that situation once it got rolling. Powerful people once used to the taste of the fight and the need for more power will not go away of their own accord .. that much i am sadly convinced.
just maybe. possibly, if all of France can at this time unite and begin talking about these issues so forcefully and openly it will diminish the power of anyone who tries to marginalize people and attack small groups. if they want to attack all of France - you will have to be ready for that - and understand they will not attack with quiet marches in the street and with teenage girls holding candle vigils. today. tomorrow. the next.. someday. this will have to be resolved. and if not .. France will once again be held hostage by a small vocal aggressive minority who wants to tell you want to say, think, feel. and they will without shame march you away in the night if you cross them.
my #1 solution - We- and in this case WE means EVERY COUNTRY must immediately ban the international sales of weapons. I understand this is like hoping for santa to bring me a new bike and shove it down my chimney. but this is the problem.. why . why do our countries produce all these war machines and sell them around the world for profit and then act so very surprised when someone uses them. oh please. make. it. stop.
Thank you to everyone for your opinions.. both the ones with which i agree and the ones with which i disagree. You add value to the situation by openly - freely -without fear of retribution - without fear that someone will shoot you for your opinions - simply talking.
my 2cents. Unless I am mistaken - Hitler is the last "leader" that openly said in France - 'if you write even a cartoon against me i will march in with my people and eradicate you and those who help you' . This was not so very long ago. I am pretty sure you all know how effective peaceful demonstrations would have been against that situation once it got rolling. Powerful people once used to the taste of the fight and the need for more power will not go away of their own accord .. that much i am sadly convinced.
just maybe. possibly, if all of France can at this time unite and begin talking about these issues so forcefully and openly it will diminish the power of anyone who tries to marginalize people and attack small groups. if they want to attack all of France - you will have to be ready for that - and understand they will not attack with quiet marches in the street and with teenage girls holding candle vigils. today. tomorrow. the next.. someday. this will have to be resolved. and if not .. France will once again be held hostage by a small vocal aggressive minority who wants to tell you want to say, think, feel. and they will without shame march you away in the night if you cross them.
my #1 solution - We- and in this case WE means EVERY COUNTRY must immediately ban the international sales of weapons. I understand this is like hoping for santa to bring me a new bike and shove it down my chimney. but this is the problem.. why . why do our countries produce all these war machines and sell them around the world for profit and then act so very surprised when someone uses them. oh please. make. it. stop.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 16:20:24 GMT 1, Can someone please draw a hand for me to hold. And for all those who feel alone sad mad angry empty full of emotions for all who lost someone dear to them, today yesterday and all other days to violence caused by those very feelings.
Can someone please draw a hand for me to hold. And for all those who feel alone sad mad angry empty full of emotions for all who lost someone dear to them, today yesterday and all other days to violence caused by those very feelings.
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tab1
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September 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by fingerz on Jan 8, 2015 18:34:00 GMT 1, from C215
Afin de marquer durablement la capitale du souvenir des martyrs de Charlie Hebdo, j'offrirai ร ceux qui le souhaiteront, plusieurs centaines de pochoirs dรฉcoupรฉs et prรชts ร l'emploi "JE SUIS CHARLIE".
Je ne fournirai pas les bombes de spray, dont vous devrez vous munir. Je ne distribuerai qu'un pochoir par personne. Soyez comprรฉhensifs. Les pochoirs ne seront marquรฉs d'aucun logo, ni dรฉdicacรฉs et n'ont aucune valeur commerciale. Je compte donc sur vous pour les utiliser comme il se doit, sans vandalisme.
Je vous donne rendez vous pour la distribution : - demain soir vendredi 17h au bar du thรฉรขtre ร Vitry - samedi 11h devant la mairie du 13e, place d'Italie - dimanche 14h devant la pharmacie de la place de la Rรฉpublique
Tous ensemble contre le fanatisme. Je vous remercie
#โjesuischarlie
from C215
Afin de marquer durablement la capitale du souvenir des martyrs de Charlie Hebdo, j'offrirai ร ceux qui le souhaiteront, plusieurs centaines de pochoirs dรฉcoupรฉs et prรชts ร l'emploi "JE SUIS CHARLIE".
Je ne fournirai pas les bombes de spray, dont vous devrez vous munir. Je ne distribuerai qu'un pochoir par personne. Soyez comprรฉhensifs. Les pochoirs ne seront marquรฉs d'aucun logo, ni dรฉdicacรฉs et n'ont aucune valeur commerciale. Je compte donc sur vous pour les utiliser comme il se doit, sans vandalisme.
Je vous donne rendez vous pour la distribution : - demain soir vendredi 17h au bar du thรฉรขtre ร Vitry - samedi 11h devant la mairie du 13e, place d'Italie - dimanche 14h devant la pharmacie de la place de la Rรฉpublique
Tous ensemble contre le fanatisme. Je vous remercie
#โjesuischarlie
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commissioner
New Member
Posts โข 931
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May 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by commissioner on Jan 8, 2015 19:47:26 GMT 1, C215:
To permanently mark the capital of remembrance of the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, I will offer to those who want it , hundreds of cut stencils and ready to use " I AM CHARLIE "
Great Idea...
Just caught Pure Evil's Piece done today on the news.
C215:
To permanently mark the capital of remembrance of the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, I will offer to those who want it , hundreds of cut stencils and ready to use " I AM CHARLIE "
Great Idea...
Just caught Pure Evil's Piece done today on the news.
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Poly Mindset
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,175
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March 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Poly Mindset on Jan 8, 2015 20:00:23 GMT 1, C215: To permanently mark the capital of remembrance of the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, I will offer to those who want it , hundreds of cut stencils and ready to use " I AM CHARLIE " Great Idea... Just caught Pure Evil's Piece done today on the news. Excellent Idea, the world should remember the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, and to turn the tables on the terrorist and in retaliation for their actions I think we need more of these kind of Mohammed caricatures. This is just one man's opinion. I wish I was an artist.
C215: To permanently mark the capital of remembrance of the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, I will offer to those who want it , hundreds of cut stencils and ready to use " I AM CHARLIE " Great Idea... Just caught Pure Evil's Piece done today on the news. Excellent Idea, the world should remember the martyrs of Charlie Hebdo, and to turn the tables on the terrorist and in retaliation for their actions I think we need more of these kind of Mohammed caricatures. This is just one man's opinion. I wish I was an artist.
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cerulean
New Member
Posts โข 276
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July 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by cerulean on Jan 8, 2015 20:20:29 GMT 1, My country, freedom and and free speech has been attacked today... and that's terrible! I don't want to be involved in your debate guys, my only though is that we all need to stay together against that kind of act, cause today was Paris but those peoples seems to be ready to attack anybody anywhere, those killers do not represent Muslim or Islam, those guys are just insane! So don't be scared and please don't try to stigmatize a community, just raise your fist and say no to that kind of act! #jesuischarlie
Beautifully spoken. It's interesting how those closest in proximity to an act of violence are often the most level minded and not consumed with thoughts of vengeance. I live in NYC less than 2 miles from where 9/11 occurred. I remember in the days that followed, the voices of rage screaming for vengeance came mainly from other parts of our country while most New Yorkers were simply grieving.
As others have said, violence begets violence.
In the words of Bono "Be careful you don't become a monster, in order to defeat the monster".
My country, freedom and and free speech has been attacked today... and that's terrible! I don't want to be involved in your debate guys, my only though is that we all need to stay together against that kind of act, cause today was Paris but those peoples seems to be ready to attack anybody anywhere, those killers do not represent Muslim or Islam, those guys are just insane! So don't be scared and please don't try to stigmatize a community, just raise your fist and say no to that kind of act! #jesuischarlie Beautifully spoken. It's interesting how those closest in proximity to an act of violence are often the most level minded and not consumed with thoughts of vengeance. I live in NYC less than 2 miles from where 9/11 occurred. I remember in the days that followed, the voices of rage screaming for vengeance came mainly from other parts of our country while most New Yorkers were simply grieving. As others have said, violence begets violence. In the words of Bono "Be careful you don't become a monster, in order to defeat the monster".
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daveart
New Member
Posts โข 940
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February 2008
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Everybody okay in paris?, by daveart on Jan 8, 2015 22:14:21 GMT 1, Neitzsche & bono in one post.. interesting bedfellows. well of course neither Nietzsche or Bono probably ever actually faced a monster from their lofty perches.. So its pretty easy advice to give. Some monsters really will eat you and crap you out the other side regardless of your wimpers... so that's what makes this all so scary.
Neitzsche & bono in one post.. interesting bedfellows. well of course neither Nietzsche or Bono probably ever actually faced a monster from their lofty perches.. So its pretty easy advice to give. Some monsters really will eat you and crap you out the other side regardless of your wimpers... so that's what makes this all so scary.
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Paname
New Member
Posts โข 509
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October 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Paname on Jan 9, 2015 16:39:08 GMT 1, new terrorist attack, jews hostages ...
new terrorist attack, jews hostages ...
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 16:52:09 GMT 1, I would imagine the French police and other agencies are raiding properties all over France and rounding up lots of people. Just in case.
It does seem to be a certain age group and social class of people.
I would imagine the French police and other agencies are raiding properties all over France and rounding up lots of people. Just in case.
It does seem to be a certain age group and social class of people.
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tab1
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September 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by tab1 on Jan 9, 2015 17:23:32 GMT 1, End game on both hostage situations
End game on both hostage situations
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t3c
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,570
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July 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by t3c on Jan 9, 2015 17:29:35 GMT 1, Yeah there is no way in hell the French authorities are gonna let this carry through into the w.end. It ends tonight but i feel for the single hostage in the print-works, it doesn't bode too well for him but i hope that isn't the case.
Yeah there is no way in hell the French authorities are gonna let this carry through into the w.end. It ends tonight but i feel for the single hostage in the print-works, it doesn't bode too well for him but i hope that isn't the case.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 17:35:13 GMT 1, Yeah there is no way in hell the French authorities are gonna let this carry through into the w.end. It ends tonight but i feel for the single hostage in the print-works, it doesn't bode too well for him but i hope that isn't the case. According to the news, all seems good. Fingers crossed.
Yeah there is no way in hell the French authorities are gonna let this carry through into the w.end. It ends tonight but i feel for the single hostage in the print-works, it doesn't bode too well for him but i hope that isn't the case. According to the news, all seems good. Fingers crossed.
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pingoo
New Member
Posts โข 427
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December 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by pingoo on Jan 9, 2015 18:08:49 GMT 1, What a relief. They did a great job.
What a relief. They did a great job.
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oxomo
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Posts โข 198
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May 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by oxomo on Jan 9, 2015 18:10:18 GMT 1, Unfortunately it has been reported that 4 hostages were killed in Paris.
Devastating.
Unfortunately it has been reported that 4 hostages were killed in Paris.
Devastating.
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t3c
Junior Member
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July 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by t3c on Jan 9, 2015 18:14:54 GMT 1, Yes 4 unconfirmed hostage deaths, really hope thats wrong!
Yes 4 unconfirmed hostage deaths, really hope thats wrong!
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oxomo
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Posts โข 198
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May 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by oxomo on Jan 9, 2015 18:19:53 GMT 1, Tragically, it does not look good.
Tragically, it does not look good.
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tab1
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September 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by tab1 on Jan 9, 2015 18:43:09 GMT 1, news.sky.com/story/1405106/hostages-killed-in-paris-supermarket-siege
If you read the story , it says in store video surveillance was hacked and police kept comms via hostage via secret phone
Should they really be reporting this as potentially this could happen again and giving pointers to the attackers where they went wrong?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 18:56:52 GMT 1, Clearly not.
Clearly not.
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Paname
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October 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Paname on Jan 9, 2015 19:06:18 GMT 1, Unfortunately it has been reported that 4 hostages were killed in Paris. Devastating. 3 kills immediately
1 maybe terrorist woman
tnt in the supermarket
Unfortunately it has been reported that 4 hostages were killed in Paris. Devastating. 3 kills immediately 1 maybe terrorist woman tnt in the supermarket
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Liverpool ste123 on Jan 9, 2015 19:19:41 GMT 1, Abu Hamza sent down for life in the U.S... That's one less preacher spreading extremist views to easily influenced types who feel marginalised in society seeking bloodshed/martyrdom. Wrongly in the name of a religion.
Can only hope now there are no more attacks. Good luck for all the peaceful protesters on the weekend and hope it passes without incident
Abu Hamza sent down for life in the U.S... That's one less preacher spreading extremist views to easily influenced types who feel marginalised in society seeking bloodshed/martyrdom. Wrongly in the name of a religion. Can only hope now there are no more attacks. Good luck for all the peaceful protesters on the weekend and hope it passes without incident
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Dr Plip
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August 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Dr Plip on Jan 9, 2015 19:40:20 GMT 1, Maybe. But you only have to watch a few police tv shows to see the kind of tactics that the police use.
Maybe. But you only have to watch a few police tv shows to see the kind of tactics that the police use.
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darwin
New Member
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April 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by darwin on Jan 9, 2015 19:57:49 GMT 1, Anonymous are getting involved, intend to close accounts on social networks related to terrorists
Anonymous are getting involved, intend to close accounts on social networks related to terrorists
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sgolby
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,890
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November 2012
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Everybody okay in paris?, by sgolby on Jan 9, 2015 20:18:45 GMT 1, Anonymous are getting involved, intend to close accounts on social networks related to terrorists This is the best news i have heard all day....
on a separate note. I am not happy that these two pieces of scum were killed. Inwould have much preferred that they were captured alive, and that they were put on trial. That their character would have been put on trial. That they were exposed for the sinners they were to their religion.
they have now become martyrs. They are now heroes. Would it not have been better to show the people who might be inspired by the pieces of shit fir who and what they really were?? That they were not true believers, but rather blasfemers in their actions, and that they would not be givin seven virgins in heaven on this day!?!?!?!?
Now they have won. Many out there want to kill these people... Do you not reealize that death by our hands is the highest honor they can achieve in their perverted world view??? When they struck down the tower we sought bloody vengance and murdered thousands if innocents in the process in iraq, and allowed afghanistan to return to the middle ages... And in so doing helped create a reality where for these people death was imminent so why not die while carrying out Jihad???
When will we understand that death by our hands is what they want!!!!!!!! Exposing them for the inhumane creatures of the devil that they are is the only way we can begin to fix this problem!!!!!!
Anonymous are getting involved, intend to close accounts on social networks related to terrorists This is the best news i have heard all day.... on a separate note. I am not happy that these two pieces of scum were killed. Inwould have much preferred that they were captured alive, and that they were put on trial. That their character would have been put on trial. That they were exposed for the sinners they were to their religion. they have now become martyrs. They are now heroes. Would it not have been better to show the people who might be inspired by the pieces of shit fir who and what they really were?? That they were not true believers, but rather blasfemers in their actions, and that they would not be givin seven virgins in heaven on this day!?!?!?!? Now they have won. Many out there want to kill these people... Do you not reealize that death by our hands is the highest honor they can achieve in their perverted world view??? When they struck down the tower we sought bloody vengance and murdered thousands if innocents in the process in iraq, and allowed afghanistan to return to the middle ages... And in so doing helped create a reality where for these people death was imminent so why not die while carrying out Jihad??? When will we understand that death by our hands is what they want!!!!!!!! Exposing them for the inhumane creatures of the devil that they are is the only way we can begin to fix this problem!!!!!!
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tab1
Full Member
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September 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by tab1 on Jan 9, 2015 20:41:35 GMT 1, Maybe. But you only have to watch a few police tv shows to see the kind of tactics that the police use.
Yes but the thing is you have copy cat lone groups ( termed by the media and security services ) That will be watching every detail of the widely covered news , think tactics and plans screened whilst ongoing is wrong , thinking out of the box , the group could have been bigger and targeted the emergency services from news coverage . These are brainwashed people not studying tactics from cop shows . Another misinformation the news reported one attacker was apprehended yesterday from the female cop shooting but now they both escaped to the supermarket ?
Maybe. But you only have to watch a few police tv shows to see the kind of tactics that the police use. Yes but the thing is you have copy cat lone groups ( termed by the media and security services ) That will be watching every detail of the widely covered news , think tactics and plans screened whilst ongoing is wrong , thinking out of the box , the group could have been bigger and targeted the emergency services from news coverage . These are brainwashed people not studying tactics from cop shows . Another misinformation the news reported one attacker was apprehended yesterday from the female cop shooting but now they both escaped to the supermarket ?
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Feral Things
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Feral Things on Jan 9, 2015 20:59:00 GMT 1, Firstly, my thoughts go out to the victims of this terrible attack and their friends and family. I have avoided commenting on some of the posts until now because it felt like the immediate aftermath should be a time to think of the victims but thereโs some comments on this and the other thread which I donโt think should pass without comment.
The forum has known a few lows over the years but nothing on a level with Liverpool ste123 advocating that we should โRound their families up, if theyโre involved or not and put them through a meat grinderโ. The suggestion, without a hint of irony or apology, that innocent people should be murdered because of the actions of their relatives is absolutely abhorrent to myself and I'm sure many others.
Islam is not a homogenous religion and Sufi Islam bears no more resemblance to Wahhabi Islam than the Quakers bear to the Woodboro Baptist Church. The Christian extremist group the Lordโs Resistance Army have killed 100k people in Uganda since the 1990s, Hindu extremists killed 970 people during the 2002 Gujarat Riots and Buddhist extremists have committed scores of massacres in Burma since 2013. Iโm an atheist but I regard someoneโs right to practice their religion to be a fundamental freedom. Atheist extremists killed tens of thousands of people during the rule of the Khmer Rouge because their victims held conventional religion beliefs. Islamic extremism is no more an 'Islamic problem' than the atrocities above are Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist problems. The vast, vast majority of Muslims are as appalled by Islamic extremism and the Charlie Hebdo attack as the vast, vast majority of non-Muslims and they recognise nothing of their beliefs in what these extremists are doing.
Surely the answer is more understanding and compassion, not condemning an entire religion or the people that believe in that religion. As I said at the top, my thoughts go out to the victims and their families.
Firstly, my thoughts go out to the victims of this terrible attack and their friends and family. I have avoided commenting on some of the posts until now because it felt like the immediate aftermath should be a time to think of the victims but thereโs some comments on this and the other thread which I donโt think should pass without comment. The forum has known a few lows over the years but nothing on a level with Liverpool ste123 advocating that we should โ Round their families up, if theyโre involved or not and put them through a meat grinderโ. The suggestion, without a hint of irony or apology, that innocent people should be murdered because of the actions of their relatives is absolutely abhorrent to myself and I'm sure many others. Islam is not a homogenous religion and Sufi Islam bears no more resemblance to Wahhabi Islam than the Quakers bear to the Woodboro Baptist Church. The Christian extremist group the Lordโs Resistance Army have killed 100k people in Uganda since the 1990s, Hindu extremists killed 970 people during the 2002 Gujarat Riots and Buddhist extremists have committed scores of massacres in Burma since 2013. Iโm an atheist but I regard someoneโs right to practice their religion to be a fundamental freedom. Atheist extremists killed tens of thousands of people during the rule of the Khmer Rouge because their victims held conventional religion beliefs. Islamic extremism is no more an 'Islamic problem' than the atrocities above are Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist problems. The vast, vast majority of Muslims are as appalled by Islamic extremism and the Charlie Hebdo attack as the vast, vast majority of non-Muslims and they recognise nothing of their beliefs in what these extremists are doing. Surely the answer is more understanding and compassion, not condemning an entire religion or the people that believe in that religion. As I said at the top, my thoughts go out to the victims and their families.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 21:21:35 GMT 1, ^^^ EXACTLY. Because, arent these guys Christians?
^^^ EXACTLY. Because, arent these guys Christians?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 21:32:21 GMT 1, A very balanced understanding post Feral Things
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Liverpool ste123 on Jan 9, 2015 21:46:43 GMT 1, Unsure why you've chosen to misquote me days later feralthings ?
I didn't condemn a whole religion at all. I was suggesting a different approach that is desperately needed & which would prohibit such an act in the future. Obviously it would never happen and was my viewpoint alone - at the time, when I was equally angered at Western life again being attacked for having the freedoms we enjoy (especially free speech).
So take your 'known a few lows over the years but nothing on a level with liverpoolste123' & stick it right where the sun doesn't shine...
If you're up for yet another argument - which I have all the energy for then bring it over to PM.
FACT: No current solution, involving the strength of many countries military is having an effect on extremism and the U.S has said the fight against the hatred machine of ISIS will take years. My (in hindsight), angered suggestion was my opinion alone and I refuse to be judged by something hastily written. I'm not advocating anything but here's another fact - that opinion will come to nothing. Will these extremists who are radicalised continue killing innocents? You betcha!
So use your educated wisdom and look for a solution too that the rest of the world is searching for, instead of attacking me a couple of days later. I'm not a bad person so don't label me on a forum as one...
Unsure why you've chosen to misquote me days later feralthings ?
I didn't condemn a whole religion at all. I was suggesting a different approach that is desperately needed & which would prohibit such an act in the future. Obviously it would never happen and was my viewpoint alone - at the time, when I was equally angered at Western life again being attacked for having the freedoms we enjoy (especially free speech).
So take your 'known a few lows over the years but nothing on a level with liverpoolste123' & stick it right where the sun doesn't shine...
If you're up for yet another argument - which I have all the energy for then bring it over to PM.
FACT: No current solution, involving the strength of many countries military is having an effect on extremism and the U.S has said the fight against the hatred machine of ISIS will take years. My (in hindsight), angered suggestion was my opinion alone and I refuse to be judged by something hastily written. I'm not advocating anything but here's another fact - that opinion will come to nothing. Will these extremists who are radicalised continue killing innocents? You betcha!
So use your educated wisdom and look for a solution too that the rest of the world is searching for, instead of attacking me a couple of days later. I'm not a bad person so don't label me on a forum as one...
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Feral Things
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Feral Things on Jan 9, 2015 21:58:48 GMT 1, With all due respect, I haven't misquoted you; your post is still on the first page for all to see. I've quoted you below (with other paragraphs removed for the sake of brevity) and emphasised the words which I quoted below. The third and fourth paragraphs of my post are in relation to various posts throughout these threads and not specifically yours. I wasn't aware that I've started any arguments on this forum before.
Utter scum these spineless cowards. Round their families up, if they're involved or not and put them through a meat grinder. Each and every one of them. How dare they threaten the rest of the world just because we refuse to bow down to what they want, whatever it is?!
With all due respect, I haven't misquoted you; your post is still on the first page for all to see. I've quoted you below (with other paragraphs removed for the sake of brevity) and emphasised the words which I quoted below. The third and fourth paragraphs of my post are in relation to various posts throughout these threads and not specifically yours. I wasn't aware that I've started any arguments on this forum before. Utter scum these spineless cowards. Round their families up, if they're involved or not and put them through a meat grinder. Each and every one of them. How dare they threaten the rest of the world just because we refuse to bow down to what they want, whatever it is?!
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