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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 22, 2008 22:09:55 GMT 1, tbh, even if the hanging is a bit miss-mash, i dont think it would put bidders off
tbh, even if the hanging is a bit miss-mash, i dont think it would put bidders off
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stjohn
New Member
Posts โข 255
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April 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by stjohn on Oct 22, 2008 22:19:11 GMT 1, I went to the late evening view on Monday, skipped the party last night and went to Sims Reed instead my Mrs. likes flowers! The hang is really shoddy at bonham's, with all that space, why did they cram the urban sale into that tiny room and give up the main room for the terrible Vision 21 Evening sale? Am I loving Bonham's no not really.
Thats the Vision 21 Evening sale where 10/59 lots sold
I went to the late evening view on Monday, skipped the party last night and went to Sims Reed instead my Mrs. likes flowers! The hang is really shoddy at bonham's, with all that space, why did they cram the urban sale into that tiny room and give up the main room for the terrible Vision 21 Evening sale? Am I loving Bonham's no not really. Thats the Vision 21 Evening sale where 10/59 lots sold
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robbsutt
New Member
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September 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by robbsutt on Oct 22, 2008 22:20:41 GMT 1, Some truly unbelievable pieces in this auction: The red Neate is sensational, the Laugh Now on canvas as well, Faile Boxes, Parla and Francis. All top notch stuff.
Some truly unbelievable pieces in this auction: The red Neate is sensational, the Laugh Now on canvas as well, Faile Boxes, Parla and Francis. All top notch stuff.
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lee3
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Posts โข 832
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November 2009
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by lee3 on Oct 22, 2008 22:26:09 GMT 1, Great photos, thx for posting.
>>>If the auction goes sour, Bonhams have only themselves to blame<<<
Bonham's probably deserves some blame for some rather agressive prices on some of the high priced pieces. However, these estimates were made with contracts to sellers a couple months ago. Nobody knew then that the auction market would implode as it did this past week. Christie's, Sotheyby's, and PdP suffered mightly this week with huge #s of buy ins and sales totals that were FAR below the low estimate- something that has not happened in years.
For the works that did sell, they tended to hammer near the low end of the range. The stuff listed with stupid estimates was passed right over. I had 2 pieces for sale at Christie's and they called me the day before the sale to see if I would consider lowering my reserve below the low estimate on both. I refused to do so in both cases because I don't need the money in the short term and would prefer to take back the art if it didn't. One sold and one did not. Of the 5 Banksy's at Christie's 4 sold but 2 of them agreed to lower their reserve below the low estimate in order to get a sale. I don't think the Laugh Now, Kate Moss, or Turf War canvases will have any trouble finding buyers but the rest, I'm not so sure unless the seller agrees to lower their reserve.
The same holds true of other high priced items by artists without the recognition that Banksy has as this simply is not a seller's market any longer.
Great photos, thx for posting.
>>>If the auction goes sour, Bonhams have only themselves to blame<<<
Bonham's probably deserves some blame for some rather agressive prices on some of the high priced pieces. However, these estimates were made with contracts to sellers a couple months ago. Nobody knew then that the auction market would implode as it did this past week. Christie's, Sotheyby's, and PdP suffered mightly this week with huge #s of buy ins and sales totals that were FAR below the low estimate- something that has not happened in years.
For the works that did sell, they tended to hammer near the low end of the range. The stuff listed with stupid estimates was passed right over. I had 2 pieces for sale at Christie's and they called me the day before the sale to see if I would consider lowering my reserve below the low estimate on both. I refused to do so in both cases because I don't need the money in the short term and would prefer to take back the art if it didn't. One sold and one did not. Of the 5 Banksy's at Christie's 4 sold but 2 of them agreed to lower their reserve below the low estimate in order to get a sale. I don't think the Laugh Now, Kate Moss, or Turf War canvases will have any trouble finding buyers but the rest, I'm not so sure unless the seller agrees to lower their reserve.
The same holds true of other high priced items by artists without the recognition that Banksy has as this simply is not a seller's market any longer.
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 22, 2008 22:28:50 GMT 1, ok, i know this has been explained before, but what does 'bought in' mean and how is this different to something not selling?
ok, i know this has been explained before, but what does 'bought in' mean and how is this different to something not selling?
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lee3
New Member
Posts โข 832
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November 2009
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by lee3 on Oct 22, 2008 22:36:13 GMT 1, ok, i know this has been explained before, but what does 'bought in' mean and how is this different to something not selling?
bought in = not selling.
The reserve is the price the seller agrees to sell at with the auction house. The reserve can never be higher than the low estimate so as a buyer, you know you own the item if you were the last bidder and you bid at or above the low estimate. However, sellers can and often do lower their reserve to any number below the low estimate. As a buyer you need to be aware that even bidding below a low estimate, you can still win the item provided the reserve has been met.
Auction houses can and do just make up bidding to get an item one bid below the reserve in an effort to stimulate bidding so that someone bids an item to the reseve which is something else other buyers should take note of. I suspect this is precisely what happened at Dreweatts as there were a number of high ticket items that topped out just before the low estimate. Understand that this is a normal and acceptable practice but something one should be aware of nonetheless especially if they are going in person with a paddle in hand. That's why i honestly prefer to submit absentee bids so that I don't "catch the fever".
ok, i know this has been explained before, but what does 'bought in' mean and how is this different to something not selling? bought in = not selling. The reserve is the price the seller agrees to sell at with the auction house. The reserve can never be higher than the low estimate so as a buyer, you know you own the item if you were the last bidder and you bid at or above the low estimate. However, sellers can and often do lower their reserve to any number below the low estimate. As a buyer you need to be aware that even bidding below a low estimate, you can still win the item provided the reserve has been met. Auction houses can and do just make up bidding to get an item one bid below the reserve in an effort to stimulate bidding so that someone bids an item to the reseve which is something else other buyers should take note of. I suspect this is precisely what happened at Dreweatts as there were a number of high ticket items that topped out just before the low estimate. Understand that this is a normal and acceptable practice but something one should be aware of nonetheless especially if they are going in person with a paddle in hand. That's why i honestly prefer to submit absentee bids so that I don't "catch the fever".
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 22, 2008 22:39:46 GMT 1, cheers lee, the forum auction expert as ever
cheers lee, the forum auction expert as ever
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Simococo
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,179
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April 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Simococo on Oct 22, 2008 22:40:47 GMT 1, thanks for the info lee. I am going tomorrow but I fear the fever may have caught me already...!?
thanks for the info lee. I am going tomorrow but I fear the fever may have caught me already...!?
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 22, 2008 22:43:15 GMT 1, personally - i think this auction will b a success, regardless of the ecconomy
theres money out there, and when u put pieces infront of people that are this high quality, they aint going to let the oppertunity pass by
if this auction flops i will eat my virtual hat, or a chocolate based real hat
personally - i think this auction will b a success, regardless of the ecconomy
theres money out there, and when u put pieces infront of people that are this high quality, they aint going to let the oppertunity pass by
if this auction flops i will eat my virtual hat, or a chocolate based real hat
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by wiz on Oct 22, 2008 22:45:07 GMT 1, Cant beat a good bout of auction fever Simococo, as a observer that is not a participant.
Cant beat a good bout of auction fever Simococo, as a observer that is not a participant.
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Rsyok
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,374
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January 2008
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Rsyok on Oct 22, 2008 22:46:09 GMT 1, Yeah thanks, interesting practise. More informative than all those episodes of cash in the attic I've suffered !
Yeah thanks, interesting practise. More informative than all those episodes of cash in the attic I've suffered !
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,503
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January 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Cocteau 101 on Oct 23, 2008 0:28:06 GMT 1, As I said earlier some great art in this auction but bad bad and extremely unfortunate timing, circumstance may dictate results of this auction rather than the quality of the work itself which would be a real shame.
As I said earlier some great art in this auction but bad bad and extremely unfortunate timing, circumstance may dictate results of this auction rather than the quality of the work itself which would be a real shame.
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yapsey
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,217
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November 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by yapsey on Oct 23, 2008 0:58:54 GMT 1, some amazing pieces - but appallingly hung. im going tomorrow to see for myself, but from the photos, this looks like one of the worst presented auctions i've seen for a long time....
some amazing pieces - but appallingly hung. im going tomorrow to see for myself, but from the photos, this looks like one of the worst presented auctions i've seen for a long time....
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by snausages on Oct 23, 2008 1:53:37 GMT 1, ohhhh...those faile crates made me leak a milky tear of pure joy from my teat. hmmm, funny how different people see things, I thought those were the least desirable faile boxes I've ever seen. And what's a 'teat'?
ohhhh...those faile crates made me leak a milky tear of pure joy from my teat. hmmm, funny how different people see things, I thought those were the least desirable faile boxes I've ever seen. And what's a 'teat'?
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by crazyarsemother on Oct 23, 2008 7:27:46 GMT 1, Hi guys is there any way of getting live updates on the sales I can't really afford to get down there.
Thanks
Hi guys is there any way of getting live updates on the sales I can't really afford to get down there.
Thanks
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,379
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June 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Pattycakes on Oct 23, 2008 8:10:44 GMT 1, I like your positivity Silky, but I don't share it, no sale in the past two weeks has sold over 60% and percentage sold is dropping with each auction. There will always be some buyers, but at the moment people are just not spending. Effectively like houses it's a buyers market, and those with the cash have a lot more freedom to pick and choose, more over if they are sensible they let things BI and then make very low aftersale offers, hoping that they have a distressed seller who will let the item go for a crazy low price. It's exactly what happened in 89, though then sales fell away almost immediately, principally because it was a much smaller market then than now.
I like your positivity Silky, but I don't share it, no sale in the past two weeks has sold over 60% and percentage sold is dropping with each auction. There will always be some buyers, but at the moment people are just not spending. Effectively like houses it's a buyers market, and those with the cash have a lot more freedom to pick and choose, more over if they are sensible they let things BI and then make very low aftersale offers, hoping that they have a distressed seller who will let the item go for a crazy low price. It's exactly what happened in 89, though then sales fell away almost immediately, principally because it was a much smaller market then than now.
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eddiedangerous
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,600
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October 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by eddiedangerous on Oct 23, 2008 8:15:53 GMT 1,
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 9:08:34 GMT 1, Hey Guys
Does the ยฃ3,000 - ยฃ5,000 estimate for the parla watercolour seem low or am i missing something?
Cheers.
Hey Guys
Does the ยฃ3,000 - ยฃ5,000 estimate for the parla watercolour seem low or am i missing something?
Cheers.
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 23, 2008 9:31:45 GMT 1, its low to get people interested
should go for at least ยฃ9-10k
its low to get people interested
should go for at least ยฃ9-10k
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by stillborncrisps on Oct 23, 2008 9:54:27 GMT 1, What's the extra markup on stuff you buy, I can never work it out.
If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price?
What's the extra markup on stuff you buy, I can never work it out. If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price?
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by wiz on Oct 23, 2008 10:00:40 GMT 1, What's the extra markup on stuff you buy, I can never work it out. If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price?
ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR).
What's the extra markup on stuff you buy, I can never work it out. If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price? ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR).
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edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
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July 2008
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by edcase on Oct 23, 2008 10:07:53 GMT 1,
Who is this? Seen lots of these in farringdon lately
Who is this? Seen lots of these in farringdon lately
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edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
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July 2008
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by edcase on Oct 23, 2008 10:11:01 GMT 1, ohhhh...those faile crates made me leak a milky tear of pure joy from my teat. hmmm, funny how different people see things, I thought those were the least desirable faile boxes I've ever seen. And what's a 'teat'?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teat
ohhhh...those faile crates made me leak a milky tear of pure joy from my teat. hmmm, funny how different people see things, I thought those were the least desirable faile boxes I've ever seen. And what's a 'teat'? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teat
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by stillborncrisps on Oct 23, 2008 10:11:17 GMT 1, If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price? ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR).
Cheers.
Not all of them have Artist Resale on them do they? (eg the 1st lot (Blek dog) doesn't mention it)
If I bought something for ยฃ1k, what would be the true final price? ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR). Cheers. Not all of them have Artist Resale on them do they? (eg the 1st lot (Blek dog) doesn't mention it)
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funster
Junior Member
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October 2006
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by funster on Oct 23, 2008 10:13:43 GMT 1, ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR). Cheers. Not all of them have Artist Resale on them do they? (eg the 1st lot (Blek dog) doesn't mention it)
Both Bleks are subject to AR.
ยฃ1275 inc artist resale, just plonk 27.5% on hammer (inc AR). Cheers. Not all of them have Artist Resale on them do they? (eg the 1st lot (Blek dog) doesn't mention it) Both Bleks are subject to AR.
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by wiz on Oct 23, 2008 10:13:55 GMT 1, Factor it in anyhow, if it doesnt qualify think of it as a bonus.
Factor it in anyhow, if it doesnt qualify think of it as a bonus.
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funster
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,256
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October 2006
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by funster on Oct 23, 2008 10:17:07 GMT 1, This is from DACS:
"The Artist's Resale Right gives you a resale royalty each time your art works are resold by a gallery, dealer, auction house or agent for more than โฌ1000 (approx ยฃ750).
The Design and Artists Copyright Society (DACS) is the leading collecting society managing the rights of artists in the UK. DACS is a genuinely not-for-profit organisation, established in 1984 and representing 52,000 artists. We deduct the minimum commission needed to cover our costs from the royalties collected.
DACS is committed to paying artists their resale royalties as soon as possible. We promise to pay artists who have registered with us within 30 days of collection.
We charge a 15% administration fee on resale royalties we collect for you. We do not place any charge on monies collected from overseas sales, although charges may be made by the local collecting society.
You do not have to be a member of DACS to benefit from Artist's Resale Right. However, to make it easier for DACS to get your resale royalties to you, we ask you to register your details with us."
This is from DACS:
"The Artist's Resale Right gives you a resale royalty each time your art works are resold by a gallery, dealer, auction house or agent for more than โฌ1000 (approx ยฃ750).
The Design and Artists Copyright Society (DACS) is the leading collecting society managing the rights of artists in the UK. DACS is a genuinely not-for-profit organisation, established in 1984 and representing 52,000 artists. We deduct the minimum commission needed to cover our costs from the royalties collected.
DACS is committed to paying artists their resale royalties as soon as possible. We promise to pay artists who have registered with us within 30 days of collection.
We charge a 15% administration fee on resale royalties we collect for you. We do not place any charge on monies collected from overseas sales, although charges may be made by the local collecting society.
You do not have to be a member of DACS to benefit from Artist's Resale Right. However, to make it easier for DACS to get your resale royalties to you, we ask you to register your details with us."
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Winter
Junior Member
Posts โข 7,153
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March 2007
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Winter on Oct 23, 2008 10:36:41 GMT 1, its low to get people interested should go for at least ยฃ9-10k .
I think the Parla could go for more. Even with the money you just can't get hold of these. In time anything near ยฃ10k for one of these will seem like a steal.
its low to get people interested should go for at least ยฃ9-10k . I think the Parla could go for more. Even with the money you just can't get hold of these. In time anything near ยฃ10k for one of these will seem like a steal.
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by graeme501 on Oct 23, 2008 10:37:44 GMT 1, one went on the last auction for around this much, and i know of two that are for sale ...
one went on the last auction for around this much, and i know of two that are for sale ...
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Bonhams โข Art Auctions โข London ๐ฌ๐ง, by Guest on Oct 23, 2008 10:46:15 GMT 1, its low to get people interested should go for at least ยฃ9-10k . I think the Parla could go for more. Even with the money you just can't get hold of these. In time anything near ยฃ10k for one of these will seem like a steal.
pieces are always available
its low to get people interested should go for at least ยฃ9-10k . I think the Parla could go for more. Even with the money you just can't get hold of these. In time anything near ยฃ10k for one of these will seem like a steal. pieces are always available
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