Dexter Bulldog
Junior Member
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July 2013
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Dexter Bulldog on Oct 31, 2016 14:58:44 GMT 1, I have seen a lot of sales threads lately say "...and lower number" basically implying that that adds value. Or theyll say its an earlier printing in a run of a 100 prints, but theres zero confirmation thats even how the artist numbers them, they could be going backwards, or random.
sure it might look cool if you had print number 1 but if you offered me the exact same print and one was #1 and the other was #186 for less money, thats a no brainer.
I have seen a lot of sales threads lately say "...and lower number" basically implying that that adds value. Or theyll say its an earlier printing in a run of a 100 prints, but theres zero confirmation thats even how the artist numbers them, they could be going backwards, or random.
sure it might look cool if you had print number 1 but if you offered me the exact same print and one was #1 and the other was #186 for less money, thats a no brainer.
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cyberkid
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,375
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January 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by cyberkid on Oct 31, 2016 15:02:46 GMT 1, I have seen a lot of sales threads lately say "...and lower number" basically implying that that adds value. Or theyll say its an earlier printing in a run of a 100 prints, but theres zero confirmation thats even how the artist numbers them, they could be going backwards, or random. sure it might look cool if you had print number 1 but if you offered me the exact same print and one was #1 and the other was #186 for less money, thats a no brainer. indeed. i cant understand that somebody is paying more for #3 than for #33... i could understand #1 - but personally i would not pay a premium !
I have seen a lot of sales threads lately say "...and lower number" basically implying that that adds value. Or theyll say its an earlier printing in a run of a 100 prints, but theres zero confirmation thats even how the artist numbers them, they could be going backwards, or random. sure it might look cool if you had print number 1 but if you offered me the exact same print and one was #1 and the other was #186 for less money, thats a no brainer. indeed. i cant understand that somebody is paying more for #3 than for #33... i could understand #1 - but personally i would not pay a premium !
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maxamaxa2
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August 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by maxamaxa2 on Oct 31, 2016 15:12:01 GMT 1, Wouldn't pay more for it, but if two were up for sale at the same price I would def choose the lower number. So, it have some kind of value. And now, thinking about it I actually paid a premium for a number 1 just a whila ago, was only ยฃ20 and in the end it got lost during shipping. So again, I think it have a value in some cases but its not a deal breaker.
Wouldn't pay more for it, but if two were up for sale at the same price I would def choose the lower number. So, it have some kind of value. And now, thinking about it I actually paid a premium for a number 1 just a whila ago, was only ยฃ20 and in the end it got lost during shipping. So again, I think it have a value in some cases but its not a deal breaker.
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
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August 2011
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Dr Plip on Oct 31, 2016 15:12:03 GMT 1, I can understand a seller trying to add a bit on for a "desirable" number, but for me, unless the number is coincidentally relevant to me or the subject matter, I really don't care about the number.
Having said that, I would rather have #25 than #27 or #88 over #72. Prettier numbers, but it doesn't really matter.
I don't know about serious printers, but the shop I used to work for would commission comic art prints from time to time, and when it came to numbering and signing, it was random. Just whichever the artist grabbed and signed next.
I can understand a seller trying to add a bit on for a "desirable" number, but for me, unless the number is coincidentally relevant to me or the subject matter, I really don't care about the number.
Having said that, I would rather have #25 than #27 or #88 over #72. Prettier numbers, but it doesn't really matter.
I don't know about serious printers, but the shop I used to work for would commission comic art prints from time to time, and when it came to numbering and signing, it was random. Just whichever the artist grabbed and signed next.
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Layaway Days Art Blog on Oct 31, 2016 15:17:21 GMT 1, To be honest, everything sells out in 11 seconds and then shows up on eBay or threads for triple the price. I don't care what the number is, I just want one.
PS. I want a TMA Brooklyn. (or any cheap TMA, no HK/Santa Monica)
To be honest, everything sells out in 11 seconds and then shows up on eBay or threads for triple the price. I don't care what the number is, I just want one.
PS. I want a TMA Brooklyn. (or any cheap TMA, no HK/Santa Monica)
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yorkie
New Member
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June 2016
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by yorkie on Oct 31, 2016 15:48:14 GMT 1, Wouldn't pay more for it, but if two were up for sale at the same price I would def choose the lower number. So, it have some kind of value. And now, thinking about it I actually paid a premium for a number 1 just a whila ago, was only ยฃ20 and in the end it got lost during shipping. So again, I think it have a value in some cases but its not a deal breaker. Absolutely agree.....
I would add that its always nice to have '1 of xxx' it just feels nice - would I pay more for it? Well thats the million dollar question...
The question of a limited edition vs A/P - lets say both are of the same size (5 limited editions and 5 A/Ps) - generally the A/P is sold at a higher amount... but is this right?
Yorkie
Wouldn't pay more for it, but if two were up for sale at the same price I would def choose the lower number. So, it have some kind of value. And now, thinking about it I actually paid a premium for a number 1 just a whila ago, was only ยฃ20 and in the end it got lost during shipping. So again, I think it have a value in some cases but its not a deal breaker. Absolutely agree..... I would add that its always nice to have '1 of xxx' it just feels nice - would I pay more for it? Well thats the million dollar question... The question of a limited edition vs A/P - lets say both are of the same size (5 limited editions and 5 A/Ps) - generally the A/P is sold at a higher amount... but is this right? Yorkie
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bdr79
New Member
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May 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by bdr79 on Oct 31, 2016 15:50:41 GMT 1, Chinese buyers would pay a premium for no 8 or 88.
Anyone flipping to sell in China.....bear in mind!
Chinese buyers would pay a premium for no 8 or 88.
Anyone flipping to sell in China.....bear in mind!
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by searchandrescue on Oct 31, 2016 16:25:18 GMT 1, no
no
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by dismalandbland on Oct 31, 2016 16:40:10 GMT 1, For certain methods of printing, it used to be that lower number prints were prized. In tne example of screen printing, the logic being that the screen would get clogged over time and therefore the image lose definition.
I imagine though that printing techniques have improved and this is no longer the case.
BTW - to the OP, this question crops up on here every couple of years or so. There are bound to be a few threads on it if you do a search.
For certain methods of printing, it used to be that lower number prints were prized. In tne example of screen printing, the logic being that the screen would get clogged over time and therefore the image lose definition.
I imagine though that printing techniques have improved and this is no longer the case.
BTW - to the OP, this question crops up on here every couple of years or so. There are bound to be a few threads on it if you do a search.
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nobokov
Junior Member
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February 2016
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by nobokov on Oct 31, 2016 16:44:49 GMT 1, I might be inclined to pay a few bucks extra for a #0.
I might be inclined to pay a few bucks extra for a #0.
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10th Mountain
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December 2010
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by 10th Mountain on Oct 31, 2016 16:46:57 GMT 1, The only reson would be that in screen prints or litho, in particular the way 99 prints get their image on paper, if it was a long run then the image would lose clarity as dismalandbland mentioned. I really don't think that with the quality of most prints it is really that important. I do like matching numbers from an OCD point of view, but it would not be essential on anything, as most runs are short enough for this not to matter. It is meaningless with a Giclee print, as no perceivable loss of quality with those.
The only reson would be that in screen prints or litho, in particular the way 99 prints get their image on paper, if it was a long run then the image would lose clarity as dismalandbland mentioned. I really don't think that with the quality of most prints it is really that important. I do like matching numbers from an OCD point of view, but it would not be essential on anything, as most runs are short enough for this not to matter. It is meaningless with a Giclee print, as no perceivable loss of quality with those.
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frank2
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December 2014
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by frank2 on Oct 31, 2016 16:52:50 GMT 1, Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home
Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Coach on Oct 31, 2016 17:02:20 GMT 1, Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home
That's not why people cover up the print number. It's usually done with high value prints, to decrease the risk of fraud. That's my understanding.
Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home That's not why people cover up the print number. It's usually done with high value prints, to decrease the risk of fraud. That's my understanding.
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yorkie
New Member
Posts โข 867
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June 2016
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by yorkie on Oct 31, 2016 17:10:58 GMT 1, Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home That's not why people cover up the print number. It's usually done with high value prints, to decrease the risk of fraud. That's my understanding. I agree coach - they do decrease the risk of fraud. Sometimes it also removes the identity of someone who is selling on eBay and details the number that they have for sale so the don't get burned on here when they sell it for more / less!
Then there is the postebob method of putting 'poster bob' all over the image - I always smile at that!
Yorkie
Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home That's not why people cover up the print number. It's usually done with high value prints, to decrease the risk of fraud. That's my understanding. I agree coach - they do decrease the risk of fraud. Sometimes it also removes the identity of someone who is selling on eBay and details the number that they have for sale so the don't get burned on here when they sell it for more / less! Then there is the postebob method of putting 'poster bob' all over the image - I always smile at that! Yorkie
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Coach on Oct 31, 2016 17:14:09 GMT 1, I would pay a modest premium for number 1 of an edition. My understanding is that number 1 (and sometimes other very low numbers) is often kept by the artist or given by the artist to family/friends. For me, that makes it a little extra special.
I would pay a modest premium for number 1 of an edition. My understanding is that number 1 (and sometimes other very low numbers) is often kept by the artist or given by the artist to family/friends. For me, that makes it a little extra special.
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Dibbs 45
Junior Member
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October 2012
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Dibbs 45 on Oct 31, 2016 17:25:09 GMT 1, Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home
Hiding numbers is so that people don't alert the gallery and get blacklisted as a flipper. Galleries and print studios have a record of who gets what number. Well some of them do anyway
Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home Hiding numbers is so that people don't alert the gallery and get blacklisted as a flipper. Galleries and print studios have a record of who gets what number. Well some of them do anyway
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Dexter Bulldog
Junior Member
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July 2013
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Dexter Bulldog on Oct 31, 2016 17:25:24 GMT 1, i think most people agree that it would be cool to look at having the number 1, if thats your thing, great, maybe you pay a little extra- but specifically anything thats is considered "low" is always marketed as more valuable. it just makes zero sense. and if someone wants to say the process is not as high quality for the end of a run of prints (when was the last time anyone here bought something that was a run of 1000?) there is no evidence that artists number every print in exact order.
i think most people agree that it would be cool to look at having the number 1, if thats your thing, great, maybe you pay a little extra- but specifically anything thats is considered "low" is always marketed as more valuable. it just makes zero sense. and if someone wants to say the process is not as high quality for the end of a run of prints (when was the last time anyone here bought something that was a run of 1000?) there is no evidence that artists number every print in exact order.
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Coach on Oct 31, 2016 18:00:01 GMT 1, i think most people agree that it would be cool to look at having the number 1, if thats your thing, great, maybe you pay a little extra- but specifically anything thats is considered "low" is always marketed as more valuable. it just makes zero sense. and if someone wants to say the process is not as high quality for the end of a run of prints (when was the last time anyone here bought something that was a run of 1000?) there is no evidence that artists number every print in exact order.
I'm not disagreeing with you.
i think most people agree that it would be cool to look at having the number 1, if thats your thing, great, maybe you pay a little extra- but specifically anything thats is considered "low" is always marketed as more valuable. it just makes zero sense. and if someone wants to say the process is not as high quality for the end of a run of prints (when was the last time anyone here bought something that was a run of 1000?) there is no evidence that artists number every print in exact order. I'm not disagreeing with you.
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Coach on Oct 31, 2016 18:01:36 GMT 1, Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home Hiding numbers is so that people don't alert the gallery and get blacklisted as a flipper. Galleries and print studios have a record of who gets what number. Well some of them do anyway
Yes, that too.
Let's give it up for dexterbulldog for starting this "thread"; I absolutely agree; Serialized prints, irrespective of numbers, have all the same value (otherwise they wouldn't be serialized); you know what? I also abhor those who hide the number of their print as if buying that specific number would add value to my purchase, as if I should thank them for selling me a low number, please go home Hiding numbers is so that people don't alert the gallery and get blacklisted as a flipper. Galleries and print studios have a record of who gets what number. Well some of them do anyway Yes, that too.
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Bazaaart
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September 2016
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Bazaaart on Oct 31, 2016 18:52:31 GMT 1, As a print run becomes sold out in most cases their prices appreciate because they are already rarer to find and there is the appreciated price that would encompass the same value of each print in that run no matter the number. If lets say their was a run of 50 sold out prints made and these prints were to be valued 20 years later. It would be very difficult to create an appraisal price for each individual print that time out of that 50. What would #2 be worth 25% more than #10 which is 35% more than #15 and so on... So this is a very subjective matter. I think what is more important in valuing prints is if the artist or publisher created an artist proof edition of the same print which are always smaller numbers and/or even embellished. And then of course their is the Original which is used as a standard in judging the value of the limited edition prints or vice versa.
As a print run becomes sold out in most cases their prices appreciate because they are already rarer to find and there is the appreciated price that would encompass the same value of each print in that run no matter the number. If lets say their was a run of 50 sold out prints made and these prints were to be valued 20 years later. It would be very difficult to create an appraisal price for each individual print that time out of that 50. What would #2 be worth 25% more than #10 which is 35% more than #15 and so on... So this is a very subjective matter. I think what is more important in valuing prints is if the artist or publisher created an artist proof edition of the same print which are always smaller numbers and/or even embellished. And then of course their is the Original which is used as a standard in judging the value of the limited edition prints or vice versa.
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Winter
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March 2007
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Winter on Oct 31, 2016 18:56:44 GMT 1, As long as a print is in perfect condition I have zero interest in the number.
As long as a print is in perfect condition I have zero interest in the number.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
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September 2013
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Black Apple Art on Oct 31, 2016 19:00:45 GMT 1, I believe this notion is derived from two factors spawned long ago.
#1) The fact that most signing any long number of items tend to have their best signatures in the beginning of the run ( given that they are signed in order) and often turn to scribbles and less recognizable at the end of a run. This is very prominent in many other collectibles that many not be numbered but judged on the quality of the signature aside from provenance of course.
#2) Purely the fact that the #1 and subsequent lower numbers have usually gone to friends or special people of the artist, giving it some mystical quality that it was intended for "someone special". I think it is pretty undeniable that when receiving a #1 in a series of pretty much anything of value, we automatically give it a higher value than the others in the series regardless of the logic against it. Rare anyone would get a #1 by chance as they are almost always pulled aside for someone or retained by the artist. Of course meaningless to some but definitely has value for many others in the same respect someone may give a higher value to a non variant "AP". Also very similar to the halo effect that a famous prior owner might give a car or work of art. JFK's golf clubs sold for $1.6M back in 1996 which could have been had for a few hundred new. An extreme case but the psychology is the same in the perceived higher value and desirability.
I believe this notion is derived from two factors spawned long ago.
#1) The fact that most signing any long number of items tend to have their best signatures in the beginning of the run ( given that they are signed in order) and often turn to scribbles and less recognizable at the end of a run. This is very prominent in many other collectibles that many not be numbered but judged on the quality of the signature aside from provenance of course.
#2) Purely the fact that the #1 and subsequent lower numbers have usually gone to friends or special people of the artist, giving it some mystical quality that it was intended for "someone special". I think it is pretty undeniable that when receiving a #1 in a series of pretty much anything of value, we automatically give it a higher value than the others in the series regardless of the logic against it. Rare anyone would get a #1 by chance as they are almost always pulled aside for someone or retained by the artist. Of course meaningless to some but definitely has value for many others in the same respect someone may give a higher value to a non variant "AP". Also very similar to the halo effect that a famous prior owner might give a car or work of art. JFK's golf clubs sold for $1.6M back in 1996 which could have been had for a few hundred new. An extreme case but the psychology is the same in the perceived higher value and desirability.
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pippyt75
Junior Member
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March 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by pippyt75 on Oct 31, 2016 19:06:29 GMT 1, I have a matching set of #2s of the paul insect variants from the show earlier in the year. Pins kept the #1s. Don't think it effects the value but at least off sets turning up at 7am when there was no one else in the queue!
I have a matching set of #2s of the paul insect variants from the show earlier in the year. Pins kept the #1s. Don't think it effects the value but at least off sets turning up at 7am when there was no one else in the queue!
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seanburke
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December 2014
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by seanburke on Oct 31, 2016 19:28:57 GMT 1, I thought I didn't care about print numbers, but I sure jumped at the chance to get matching numbers for my Harrington prints.
So, think we can all agree - Low/Visually pleasing numbers are desirable if you have the option but you're not gonna pay more unless it's #1 or #AP/PP
I thought I didn't care about print numbers, but I sure jumped at the chance to get matching numbers for my Harrington prints.
So, think we can all agree - Low/Visually pleasing numbers are desirable if you have the option but you're not gonna pay more unless it's #1 or #AP/PP
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pippyt75
Junior Member
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March 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by pippyt75 on Oct 31, 2016 19:44:00 GMT 1, I thought I didn't care about print numbers, but I sure jumped at the chance to get matching numbers for my Harrington prints. So, think we can all agree - Low/Visually pleasing numbers are desirable if you have the option but you're not gonna pay more unless it's #1 or #AP/PP
I think matching numbers on a set definitely give you a warm glow, certainly do for me, but you have to stand back and ask but would anyone else care. Having pointed this out to visitors I can conclude the answer is not really / why have you got so many pictures!
I thought I didn't care about print numbers, but I sure jumped at the chance to get matching numbers for my Harrington prints. So, think we can all agree - Low/Visually pleasing numbers are desirable if you have the option but you're not gonna pay more unless it's #1 or #AP/PP I think matching numbers on a set definitely give you a warm glow, certainly do for me, but you have to stand back and ask but would anyone else care. Having pointed this out to visitors I can conclude the answer is not really / why have you got so many pictures!
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Cutkillavince
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Member is Online
April 2015
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Cutkillavince on Oct 31, 2016 19:49:36 GMT 1, As long as a print is in perfect condition I have zero interest in the number. Fully agree!!
As long as a print is in perfect condition I have zero interest in the number. Fully agree!!
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ABC
Artist
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August 2006
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by ABC on Oct 31, 2016 21:58:49 GMT 1, Some say that the lower numbered screen printed image are cleaner and crisper due to the fact that the screens are newer and therefor better when first used. Personally I think that is Pish...
You should be looking at the art not the numbering, a quote to me from a well known printer.
Some say that the lower numbered screen printed image are cleaner and crisper due to the fact that the screens are newer and therefor better when first used. Personally I think that is Pish...
You should be looking at the art not the numbering, a quote to me from a well known printer.
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Pavoni
Artist
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September 2013
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Pavoni on Nov 1, 2016 2:41:22 GMT 1, "Also! One more big factor here is this. Many prints aren't numbered in the order they were made. Buying print #1 of 100 does not guarantee that you literally have the first print that was pulled."
I was about to make this point as well. Be surprised if any really were.
This is true for many numbered items. Fender Stratocaster SN 0001 (David Gilmour!) not the first one ever assembled, etc.
It does matter however in runs in which the same print block/plate was used for repeated pressings to issue new series. The above-referenced Old Master prints, scads of Picassos made till the plate is worn smooth, ukiyo-e woodblock prints, etc. First runs, later runs, posthumous runs all decrease in quality, prestige and value.
"Also! One more big factor here is this. Many prints aren't numbered in the order they were made. Buying print #1 of 100 does not guarantee that you literally have the first print that was pulled."
I was about to make this point as well. Be surprised if any really were.
This is true for many numbered items. Fender Stratocaster SN 0001 (David Gilmour!) not the first one ever assembled, etc.
It does matter however in runs in which the same print block/plate was used for repeated pressings to issue new series. The above-referenced Old Master prints, scads of Picassos made till the plate is worn smooth, ukiyo-e woodblock prints, etc. First runs, later runs, posthumous runs all decrease in quality, prestige and value.
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
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July 2011
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by andyroo0312 on Nov 1, 2016 8:57:38 GMT 1, Exactly, only number that means something is the 13 they are all for me. That makes sense. Did you dress up for Halloween..
Exactly, only number that means something is the 13 they are all for me. That makes sense. Did you dress up for Halloween..
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can we dispel the notion that lower print # means anything?, by Lroy on Nov 1, 2016 9:55:43 GMT 1, This thread is a nonsense , or we need to be doctor in an university , i do not understand anything ! Why ?
#translation
This thread is a nonsense , or we need to be doctor in an university , i do not understand anything ! Why ?
#translation
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