|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 9, 2017 22:47:55 GMT 1, You mean banksy right? :-P Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic.
I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen.
Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both?
I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything.
The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it.
Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful.
Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness."
Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel.
However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area.
But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art.
Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
You mean banksy right? :-P Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic. I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
|
|
damo
New Member
Posts • 348
Likes • 625
June 2015
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by damo on May 9, 2017 22:52:10 GMT 1, Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic. I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal. Funnily enough (re the website) that is exactly what it has reverted back to today. There seems to now be a clear divide between the two sites , presumably to allow the Dover work to be shown on the Banksy site itself and the hotel to hopefully start standing alone.
Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic. I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal. Funnily enough (re the website) that is exactly what it has reverted back to today. There seems to now be a clear divide between the two sites , presumably to allow the Dover work to be shown on the Banksy site itself and the hotel to hopefully start standing alone.
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 9, 2017 23:00:53 GMT 1, I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal. Funnily enough (re the website) that is exactly what it has reverted back to today. There seems to now be a clear divide between the two sites , presumably to allow the Dover work to be shown on the Banksy site itself and the hotel to hopefully start standing alone.
Yes that is a promising sign. Still a lot left to be seen in the future though.
I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal. Funnily enough (re the website) that is exactly what it has reverted back to today. There seems to now be a clear divide between the two sites , presumably to allow the Dover work to be shown on the Banksy site itself and the hotel to hopefully start standing alone. Yes that is a promising sign. Still a lot left to be seen in the future though.
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 9, 2017 23:03:37 GMT 1, Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic. I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
"""But it also becomes about the artist"""
When John Lennon wrote and sang "Give Peace a Chance"
Was it about John lennon?
Don't be silly. I have been known to be cynical regarding Banksy and the only way I see the whole Walled Off Hotel installation and project is it's about raising more awareness about everyday life in Palestine and what they are faced with there through no fault of their own. (blame the politicians) These people go through a whole lifetime of opression from the day they are born till the day they die and do not have the same freedoms and simple luxuries as others do on the other side of the wall. Opening a Hotel run by locals in Palestine with Banksy style and art, tells people, if you want to check in and see Banksy's art, then come to Palestine to see it. If you're too scared to come and check in, don't blame the Palestinians for the situation. Banksy could easily have opened this Walled Off in New York or London or any major city and made a lot of money. He did it in Palestine instead, so not taking advantage and very altruistic. I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
"""But it also becomes about the artist"""
When John Lennon wrote and sang "Give Peace a Chance" Was it about John lennon?
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 9, 2017 23:46:34 GMT 1, I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
"""But it also becomes about the artist"""
When John Lennon wrote and sang "Give Peace a Chance" Was it about John lennon?
I guess we could compare a banana to a pea....
I think you are right. But only the future will tell. As I outlines in my post below from another thread there is still a lot to be seen. Looking at the Walled Off Hotel I've been thinking the past couple days about what it is. Is it art? Philanthropy/advocacy? Both? This has made me start to question whether it can really be both? I think on a very high level, a micro scale, looking down from the clouds it can be argued that its both. I think the concept behind it is incredible. Showcase some art, create jobs and money for the local community and economy, promote tourism, promote awareness for the region and the problems. It has everything. The problem to me is when you start looking at it on a macro level. Zooming in and taking it for what it is. Looking at the components, the details, the physicality of it. Looking at it as if its a real hotel and if its meant to promote tourism and awareness to the area, I think that works. Its creating jobs, its bringing money to the community (we think), and its definitely putting the conflict in the spotlight. It appears to be working in that regard. The motivation to create all those things from the original concept seem great and successful. Now if the above is true the hotel itself is not art. It can't be. If the hotel is art to me it reduces all of it. It dooms the true purity of the goal. It becomes a product of an artist. It puts the artist at the forefront. Bella Gladman may be right that its "ludicrous pompousness." Now can the hotel be real (not art) while containing art? Yes, I think it could. I think it could house all the small scale individual works its does, the murals, even the concept of visiting and adding to the wall. That could all be art within this reality of helping the area and bringing awareness to the situation with a real hotel. However, the publicity of Banksy, the includance of it becoming Banksys website (the only subject), that Banksy is running it, yields that the whole thing is a work of art. Surely, it could have been opened, managed by some 'third party', there could have been a couple photos on Banksys site showing some of the individual works. This would have created the same awareness, interest, movement to the area. But for now the hotel is a performance by Banksy, that seems like it will end, that all the art will go somewhere else and the hotel will close. If thats the case, it is a shame. It degrades all the good of the original concept and leaves it as just art. Only the future will tell if thats true and what will become of the hotel and the art within. Conceptually, the concept is great. I understand how it came to be. But, when you really break down the factors, the components, the details I'm afraid that 'it being art' distracts from the purity of the concept and the goal of awareness. Yes, it sparks discussion, helps the economy, brings awareness, etc.But it also becomes about the artist, who made it, the greatness of the artist pulling it off, the greed that maybe if I hit F5 for 10 straight hours I'll luck out. Its a distraction to the original concept and pure goal.
"""But it also becomes about the artist"""
When John Lennon wrote and sang "Give Peace a Chance" Was it about John lennon? I guess we could compare a banana to a pea....
|
|
nex
Junior Member
Posts • 2,573
Likes • 1,819
February 2009
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by nex on May 9, 2017 23:58:30 GMT 1, And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?'
And the answer is unequivocally YES
Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way)
And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?'
And the answer is unequivocally YES
Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way)
|
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 10, 2017 0:08:54 GMT 1, And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?' And the answer is unequivocally YES Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way)
Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that.
The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it.
And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?' And the answer is unequivocally YES Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way) Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that. The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it.
|
|
nex
Junior Member
Posts • 2,573
Likes • 1,819
February 2009
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by nex on May 10, 2017 0:20:53 GMT 1, And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?' And the answer is unequivocally YES Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way) Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that. The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it.
Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here
And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue
And yet the real question, 'does this help real people who are struggling?' And the answer is unequivocally YES Talk all you want its window dressing, the evidence and experience of those who've visited, manifestly displays an enrichment of people's understanding whilst giving the Palestinian economy a much needed boost (in a small way) Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that. The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it. Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 10, 2017 0:34:01 GMT 1, Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that. The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it. Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue
It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean?
Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no?
Did you read my post. It doesn't seem like you did. I clearly said that. The question is what becomes of it? What is the future of it. Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean? Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no?
|
|
Unica
Junior Member
Posts • 2,060
Likes • 1,222
November 2013
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Unica on May 10, 2017 1:22:57 GMT 1, I think its safe to say that someday it will close and the art will be sold. I can't see why anyone would run a hotel if there was no demand for it. It would of run its course.
I think its safe to say that someday it will close and the art will be sold. I can't see why anyone would run a hotel if there was no demand for it. It would of run its course.
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 10, 2017 12:28:24 GMT 1, Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean? Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no? It might be worth doing a bit of background research and there are some youtube etc vids which have the hotel manager giving a speech and explaining what life is like in Palestine.
I doubt money being made was the goal of the Walled Off but it's a fact of life that money "has" to be made, plus publicity to keep the hotel going.
As far as I know all the art was given to the local community. If the hotel closes down , who knows it could be all left in situ, boarded up with all the art inside, or the art could me moved to an exhibition place somewhere in the area.
Before, no hotel.
Now Hotel.
Next year, Hotel or no Hotel.
Who knows?
Your hyperbole is tiresome, just make your point as you finally did here And to answer your question, it's been answered, it will go on as long as it makes money and is allowed to continue It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean? Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no? It might be worth doing a bit of background research and there are some youtube etc vids which have the hotel manager giving a speech and explaining what life is like in Palestine. I doubt money being made was the goal of the Walled Off but it's a fact of life that money "has" to be made, plus publicity to keep the hotel going. As far as I know all the art was given to the local community. If the hotel closes down , who knows it could be all left in situ, boarded up with all the art inside, or the art could me moved to an exhibition place somewhere in the area. Before, no hotel. Now Hotel. Next year, Hotel or no Hotel. Who knows?
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 10, 2017 14:00:08 GMT 1, It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean? Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no? It might be worth doing a bit of background research and there are some youtube etc vids which have the hotel manager giving a speech and explaining what life is like in Palestine. I doubt money being made was the goal of the Walled Off but it's a fact of life that money "has" to be made, plus publicity to keep the hotel going. As far as I know all the art was given to the local community. If the hotel closes down , who knows it could be all left in situ, boarded up with all the art inside, or the art could me moved to an exhibition place somewhere in the area. Before, no hotel. Now Hotel. Next year, Hotel or no Hotel. Who knows?
I've done the research
Only the future will tell for sure. But if the hotel closes on a year and all the art goes to rich patrons around the world that will be a huge shame and affect the work in my eyes.
It will go on a long as money is made? What does that mean? Sorry but that's a lazy answer for something so important no? It might be worth doing a bit of background research and there are some youtube etc vids which have the hotel manager giving a speech and explaining what life is like in Palestine. I doubt money being made was the goal of the Walled Off but it's a fact of life that money "has" to be made, plus publicity to keep the hotel going. As far as I know all the art was given to the local community. If the hotel closes down , who knows it could be all left in situ, boarded up with all the art inside, or the art could me moved to an exhibition place somewhere in the area. Before, no hotel. Now Hotel. Next year, Hotel or no Hotel. Who knows? I've done the research Only the future will tell for sure. But if the hotel closes on a year and all the art goes to rich patrons around the world that will be a huge shame and affect the work in my eyes.
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 10, 2017 17:12:19 GMT 1, Hasn't the large majority of expensive art for hundreds of years ended up with in the possession of rich people. Does this lessen the work of other great artists. At least Banksy is trying to use his PR fuelled reputation for the good of the worlds people. Whether this has a short or long term affect I don't really think it matters.
Hasn't the large majority of expensive art for hundreds of years ended up with in the possession of rich people. Does this lessen the work of other great artists. At least Banksy is trying to use his PR fuelled reputation for the good of the worlds people. Whether this has a short or long term affect I don't really think it matters.
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 10, 2017 21:56:51 GMT 1, Having rich patrons and selling to uber rich is fine if uber rich want to buy or invest or whetver they do in between flossing their buttocks.
I can't see the art in the hotel being sold to rich buyers as Banksy donated it all to the local people. Probably made some sort of clause to, to prevent it being sold too.
Having rich patrons and selling to uber rich is fine if uber rich want to buy or invest or whetver they do in between flossing their buttocks.
I can't see the art in the hotel being sold to rich buyers as Banksy donated it all to the local people. Probably made some sort of clause to, to prevent it being sold too.
|
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Rouen Cathedral on May 10, 2017 23:37:49 GMT 1, Hasn't the large majority of expensive art for hundreds of years ended up with in the possession of rich people. Does this lessen the work of other great artists. At least Banksy is trying to use his PR fuelled reputation for the good of the worlds people. Whether this has a short or long term affect I don't really think it matters.
It shocks me how banksy fans just forget what made banksy banksy. It actually blows my mind.
Comparing banksy selling to the rich and comparing it to the works of the great old masters selling to the rich is bewildering. Comparing the old masters paintings selling for hundreds of millions to the rich to justify banksy selling to the rich is insane and goes against everything that made banksy the artist he is today.
Hasn't the large majority of expensive art for hundreds of years ended up with in the possession of rich people. Does this lessen the work of other great artists. At least Banksy is trying to use his PR fuelled reputation for the good of the worlds people. Whether this has a short or long term affect I don't really think it matters. It shocks me how banksy fans just forget what made banksy banksy. It actually blows my mind. Comparing banksy selling to the rich and comparing it to the works of the great old masters selling to the rich is bewildering. Comparing the old masters paintings selling for hundreds of millions to the rich to justify banksy selling to the rich is insane and goes against everything that made banksy the artist he is today.
|
|
JD
Junior Member
Posts • 1,756
Likes • 706
June 2007
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by JD on May 11, 2017 7:41:35 GMT 1, Is it safe to take my child there ?
Is it safe to take my child there ?
|
|
vulva
New Member
Posts • 206
Likes • 131
March 2017
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by vulva on May 11, 2017 7:51:20 GMT 1, Before no hotel Now hotel Oh Ploppi, you are so funny 😂
Before no hotel Now hotel Oh Ploppi, you are so funny 😂
|
|
vulva
New Member
Posts • 206
Likes • 131
March 2017
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by vulva on May 11, 2017 7:52:44 GMT 1, Next year, Hotel or no Hotel? Quote of the year!
Next year, Hotel or no Hotel? Quote of the year!
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 11, 2017 9:18:41 GMT 1, Is it safe to take my child there ? War torn country for two thousand years, I am sure your most prized possession will be fine
Is it safe to take my child there ? War torn country for two thousand years, I am sure your most prized possession will be fine
|
|
Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts • 2,007
Likes • 3,971
September 2013
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Black Apple Art on May 11, 2017 9:35:24 GMT 1, Is it safe to take my child there ? Absolutely. The hotel is in area C which is Israeli controlled and very safe.
Is it safe to take my child there ? Absolutely. The hotel is in area C which is Israeli controlled and very safe.
|
|
vulva
New Member
Posts • 206
Likes • 131
March 2017
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by vulva on May 16, 2017 14:02:51 GMT 1,
I absolutely love the smell of this soap, lovely! Happy days 💖
I absolutely love the smell of this soap, lovely! Happy days 💖
|
|
pepmar
New Member
Posts • 4
Likes • 2
May 2014
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by pepmar on May 18, 2017 19:26:42 GMT 1, Thanks for your great review. I'm visiting the hotel this weekend and wanted to take some books/pens etc for the kids in the camp. I asked the hotel if this would be appropriate but they didn't reply. Do you think it would be ok?
Thanks for your great review. I'm visiting the hotel this weekend and wanted to take some books/pens etc for the kids in the camp. I asked the hotel if this would be appropriate but they didn't reply. Do you think it would be ok?
|
|
|
Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Deleted on May 18, 2017 19:48:28 GMT 1, Thanks for your great review. I'm visiting the hotel this weekend and wanted to take some books/pens etc for the kids in the camp. I asked the hotel if this would be appropriate but they didn't reply. Do you think it would be ok?
I requested the same.
they are very proud and welcoming people and i would say no. I don't think they really need them? ( i may be wrong, if i am please shoot me down someone)
Actually, and its just a thought, but if you are doing the afternoon tour, they stop at a little second hand shop in the camp, i would imagine he would be grateful for anything, and could most certainly get them circulated.
I spent most of my time outside the hotel doing the usual touristy things, the shop keepers are great and wandering back from the bar at 12 at night still felt very safe and again all very friendly from everyone
You really must go to Zamos bistro if you fancy a beer ( its a 5 minute walk from Hotel) Say Hi to Mo (bar man) from Amanda and Brendan and try the runner beans (honestly they are wickedly nice)
Enjoy
Thanks for your great review. I'm visiting the hotel this weekend and wanted to take some books/pens etc for the kids in the camp. I asked the hotel if this would be appropriate but they didn't reply. Do you think it would be ok? I requested the same. they are very proud and welcoming people and i would say no. I don't think they really need them? ( i may be wrong, if i am please shoot me down someone) Actually, and its just a thought, but if you are doing the afternoon tour, they stop at a little second hand shop in the camp, i would imagine he would be grateful for anything, and could most certainly get them circulated. I spent most of my time outside the hotel doing the usual touristy things, the shop keepers are great and wandering back from the bar at 12 at night still felt very safe and again all very friendly from everyone You really must go to Zamos bistro if you fancy a beer ( its a 5 minute walk from Hotel) Say Hi to Mo (bar man) from Amanda and Brendan and try the runner beans (honestly they are wickedly nice) Enjoy
|
|
wisky
New Member
Posts • 587
Likes • 395
September 2014
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by wisky on May 18, 2017 19:58:02 GMT 1, Fantastic read, and very well written, for those of us that can not make it to Isreal, cheers.
Fantastic read, and very well written, for those of us that can not make it to Isreal, cheers.
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Lroy on May 19, 2017 17:04:24 GMT 1, I absolutely love the smell of this soap, lovely! Happy days 💖
Blaah blaah
I absolutely love the smell of this soap, lovely! Happy days 💖 Blaah blaah
|
|
|
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Lroy on May 20, 2017 16:13:17 GMT 1, I've been very well gifted by a streetartist girl friend who helped For Ali 'a wall and made a great Stencil on the wall too. A wellknown friend from here too , sent me too this beautiful tee * with this fabulous double quote : is it the worst view of the world because of the wall or ... because the guy who wears the tee lol ! Great Banksy !! No mystery on the fabulous and great donators, follow the links :-)
http://instagram.com/p/BUKHvzhD7c-
http://instagram.com/p/BUMz4o9DDy4
* a big fat to fit.
Thank you very much everybody
I've been very well gifted by a streetartist girl friend who helped For Ali 'a wall and made a great Stencil on the wall too. A wellknown friend from here too , sent me too this beautiful tee * with this fabulous double quote : is it the worst view of the world because of the wall or ... because the guy who wears the tee lol ! Great Banksy !! No mystery on the fabulous and great donators, follow the links :-) http://instagram.com/p/BUKHvzhD7c- http://instagram.com/p/BUMz4o9DDy4 * a big fat to fit. Thank you very much everybody
|
|
pepe
New Member
Posts • 9
Likes • 16
March 2014
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by pepe on May 20, 2017 19:14:14 GMT 1, Apologies if this has been posted before but this stencil caught my eye in the Wall exhibition. Am so used to seeing Banksy's finished pieces, it's quite nice to see how he does it.
high quality image hosting
Apologies if this has been posted before but this stencil caught my eye in the Wall exhibition. Am so used to seeing Banksy's finished pieces, it's quite nice to see how he does it. high quality image hosting
|
|
Dice
Junior Member
Posts • 2,228
Likes • 1,518
October 2011
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Dice on May 20, 2017 19:59:10 GMT 1, ... very pleased to receive these ... hand delivered ... by a great forum member ... 👍 🙏
Very nice!
... very pleased to receive these ... hand delivered ... by a great forum member ... 👍 🙏 Very nice!
|
|
Dr Plip
Junior Member
Posts • 7,043
Likes • 8,981
August 2011
|
Banksy - The Walled Off Hotel ★★★, by Dr Plip on May 22, 2017 10:17:25 GMT 1, As promised, I wanted to make a post about my Israel / Palestine / Walled Off experience to give those who might not get to go a feel for what I experienced, learned and even more importantly, I want to give those who are planning and/or considering making the trip vital information, contacts and tips that will not only make your visit go as smooth as possible but also take away as many of the unknowns and perceived fears of going to Palestine and this area. All and all if you read no further and wanted to take away one thing from this, I will easily say this trip was one of the most enriching and rewarding to date and I have traveled quite a bit of the world over the years. The Trip There Flying from the US there is only one non-stop option which is EL AL airlines which I took. I know many of you are from the UK so you have many other options and it's a much shorter trip. Regardless of where you come from I can say there is definitely an advantage to taking EL AL regardless of the stops and that is being an Israeli airline there security is just unmatched. While you will probably get a 10min interview on your trip and who you are before boarding, one you arrive you will most likely speed right through customs. Almost everyone I spoke to that was held up at Ben Gurion ( main airport in Tel Aviv) flew from other airlines but ultimately was just a small inconvenience and were then on their way. Arrival I never like to encourage being untruthful but in this case at the very least "withholding certain information" will definitely be your best bet when being questioned about your destination on the trip either before your departure or after arrival and make no mistake, you will be questioned. Odds are you will be staying at least a night or two in Tel Aviv, which I absolutely recommend anyway, so best to give those details of your trip to authorities. Know that if you are not Israeli it is 100% legal for you to visit any area in Palestine but that doesn't mean many Israelis may justy not like the idea you are going and will go out of their way to make things difficult for you in the way of interview delays ect. Ultimately you will be ok either way but I just recommend the path of least resistance. Tel Aviv Upon arrival and or or before leaving you should absolutely explore Tel Aviv. Great people, history, food and one thing I would highly recommend is a tour on foot called "Delicious Israel". This is a 6 hour on foot tour of Tel Aviv it's history and its amazing diverse cuisine. The tour is done by Avi who aside from speaking a mind boggling 12 languages, is an absolute library of knowledge and will give you one amazing experience of sightseeing, history and most of all local food. Doing this all on foot also gives you a great lay of the land. I'm not a fan of tours with large groups and this is not one of those and if you are lucky will end up with just 2-3 other people like I had. I will leave info and links to all things recommended at the end of this guide. Getting to The Walled Off So this is the item that probably caused me the most anxiety from the trip as I just could not get any concise answer on the best way to do this. I was given countless recommendations on everything from shuttles, taxis and car services, none of which were direct and all required getting dropped off at the palestinian border and then taking another ride into the "forbidden zone". First I will give you my trial and error experience and while my experience gave me one hell of a story and got the adrenalin up there for a bit, I'll give you the magic key to provide a worry free non-stop service to the hotel from anywhere in Tel Aviv which I figured out later. The Way Not to Go I was in Tel Aviv 5 days before heading to the Walled Off so had a good amount of time to ask around and try to figure the best way to get to the hotel. I even spoke to a few people that had already visited before my trip and was told to take a shuttle to the checkpoint and then transfer to a Palestinian cab to the hotel. One thing to note is that even discussing going to the Palestinian area with Israelis is awkward at best. Most don't know the best way because they simply have never gone and believe it or not it is actually illegal for them to go. So as you can expect most just have it out of their heads as an option, so to even discuss it seems almost uncomfortable to them. I have to note that while most don't, some Israelis do go and actually met several at the Walled Off who just are not swayed by the social norms and weren't going to be deterred. The people working at my first hotel were actually very friendly and helpful so when I asked them the best way for me to go they said they would make a fw phone calls and arrange it for me which was great. I actually had to pull the destination up on google maps to make sure they knew exactly where I wanted to go. of course I was told numerous times "this is an area we can not go" as to explain their lack of knowledge on how to best do it. Finally they got back to me with a car service that would take me "as far as he could" and then I would take a Palestinian cab from there. I was quoted 400 shekels, about $100, and being a private car on my own schedule I felt it worth it. There are shuttles that can do this for as little as 50 shekels. So on the day of my departure my driver is right on time, actually early, and loads my luggage and off I go. So after a nice scenic 90 min drive we finally get to an intersection which is obviously close. There is a ominous Israeli guard tower and a few even more disconcerting signs warning of the dangers of entering. So the driver just pulled over and says "OK". I'm thinking "OK what" where the fk am I supposed to go. He basically just points and keep saying "OK". I soon realized he just wanted me out at this point and wasn't going to provide any other assistance. So he drives off and there I am on the side of the road with a suitcase and backpack. Mind you there is absolutely no one on foot and cars are driving by, all arab, entering the zone. At this point I actually had a laugh at my situation and while I had no idea what I was going to do and was definitely worried this is what adventure is all about. So I'm wheeling my suitcase up to the sign above and just taking in my situation when I see an Israeli guard in the tower looking at me. I mean how can he not, I'm sticking out like a sore thumb and obviously just lost. I turn around and head over to the tower and when I'm sure I get eye contact I give the hands in the air "wtf am I supposed to go" to him. He motions me to come around to the tower so I do. I hear a few metal doors open and close and a young Israeli soldier emerges outfitted like a spec ops team member and his AR on the ready. Once I see his finger drop from covering the trigger I show him the Walled Off location on my phone and ask how do I get there. he takes the phone studies it and asks "You're not Israeli are you?" I say no and he remarks "hmmm...well you should be ok. Just walk over there and stop a car for a ride." So after thanking him off I go assessing cars driving by and the occupants. Most are full of people wrapped in keffiyehs with only their eyes showing giving me a quick glance and passing. Finally a van turns and the driver looks at me and I just wave him down. The van stops, door slides open and I jump in without a word said and sit next to three women with only their eyes visible. Another great moment for sure. So I get dumped again, give the driver a few shekels and I'm back to rolling my suitcase now deep in the border and in the center of what looks to be a small third world town . My phone is now on one bar with a weak 3G signal so I can just barely get my position and direction but am forging on, my suitcase wheels struggling on the dirt and gravel when I come to Ala. Ala is standing by a car converted to cab with a big friendly smile and asks "Where are you going my friend?" I say the Walled Off and he replies "No problem, I take you." he thrown my bags in the trunk and before we go he asks if I'm hungry. I probably would have been if it wasn't for my adrenalin level but even after saying no, Ala produces a tinfoil covered plate and says " My wife made me cake for my birthday, have some...she is best cook." he was right, it was an Egyptian dessert called Umm Ali so we both stood at the trunk, ate the pastry and off we went to the hotel which was a 5 min drive. I have to admit, even though Ala was great I was thrilled at the sight of the Walled Off and what a site it is. In true banksy fashion you are literally living in a corrupted oil. The juxtaposition of this towering war battered wall with guard towers literally 15 feet from the twinkling Walled Off Hotel sign , red curtain draped entry with a formal doorman at attention sporting a top hat. Just standing there was worth the trip. The Way to Go After being there and making many friend and connections I found Nabeel. Nabeel is quite the asset as he is actually Palestinian but lives in Israel, speaks Hebrew and is one of the few that can drive freely from Tel Aviv to palestine. What a score and I highly advise using him getting to and from the hotel as he can provide trouble free non stop service. He charged me 400 shekels ($100) for the entire trip back to my hotel in Tel Aviv and actually made a few stops on the way running some errands and was happy to do so. The shuttles charge per person anyway and are not direct so if you have 2-3 people you'll end up spending more and still have to hire another ride once in Palestine. The Hotel As you can imagine the hotel is truly an experience and as many pictures and stories I can provide will still not come close to the experience you'll have actually being there.The staff is extremely friendly, helpful and Wisam, the hotel owner, is fantastic and will help or arrange anything you may need. I spent a good amount of time with Wisam and he has actually been working with Mr B since Santa's Ghetto back in 07 so as you can imagine the stories are great and plentiful. I was lucky enough to book both the Banksy room and Presidential which truly was over the top. It's just surreal being there surrounded by Banksy art only to walk out on the balcony to see this ominous wall next to you snaking through the horizon as far as the eye can see and the sounds of the evening prayers echoing throughout. Other than the rooms the hotel has an exhibition off the lobby that banksy put together giving the history of what is going on in the area and with Palestinians. Up stairs is a gallery of local artists. Both are available all day to hotel residents and selected hours for non residents for a fee. The Sights Being in Bethlehem there is just a wealth of amazing historic and cultural things to see and do so if you have already chose the Hotel tour option that is great but if not, I have an even better way to go using two local guides there. One is actually Ali my driver that took me to the hotel. I ended up spending another full day with him and he took me everywhere and ended the trip with having a late lunch his wife cooked at his home with his 4 kids. Also an experience I will never forget. The other guide I highly recommend is Saeid who actually gives the Refugee tour for the hotel which is definitely a must. You can hear about what is going on there but nothing compares to seeing it yourself and hearing the stories from the people who live there. The Hotel tours are group tours but you can actually hire these guides yourself for a private tour for less than booking through the hotel. I actually ran into Saeid when visiting the Church of the Nativity and even though I wasn't with him that day he took me and helped me bypass all the lines and crowds to see everything in a fraction of the time it would normally take. Local guides can pretty much go anywhere and skip any lines or crowds. Things are also extremely inexpensive in Palestine especially when not going to the main tourist areas. Both Ali and Saeid both took me to great shops and hidden spots for things like hand carved works, knitted items and food as well. Leaving Definitely use Nabeel to get back to tel Aviv direct or at the very least have the hotel arrange it. Note the hotel can pretty much arrange anything for you but will just end up costing you more, sometimes almost double so I'd recommend using these people direct and getting the best price. In Summary All and all, as mentioned, this ranks up there as one of the best trips and experiences of my life. It is so much more than the Hotel and I absolutely believe this was Banksy's idea as well. Just get them there and let being there and the journey do and say the rest. There is so much more I could cover and so many things I learned and experienced but I'll leave the rest for you to experience.All I can say is go with an open mind and let the things you actually see, experience and feel form you own opinion. You will definitely be thrown everyone else's opinions, most who have never been there or seen what you will see so also keep that in mind as well. I am listing all the contacts mentioned below but if anyone might have any other questions please feel free to PM or email me direct. Best, Eric Tel Aviv Avi - Stellar Tel Aviv guide for a food and cultural walking tour +972-54-545-4200 Arik - Fantastic guide for Jerusalem, Dead Sea and countless other sites. +972-54-224-0470 Palestine Ala - Phenomenal guide for Palestine +972 52 273-1610 Saeid - Another great guide for Palestine and the Refugee camp +972 52-339-9862 Nabeel - Driver that can take you direct between walled Off and Tel Aviv +052 88 64232 This is still one of the greatest posts I've ever seen on here.
As promised, I wanted to make a post about my Israel / Palestine / Walled Off experience to give those who might not get to go a feel for what I experienced, learned and even more importantly, I want to give those who are planning and/or considering making the trip vital information, contacts and tips that will not only make your visit go as smooth as possible but also take away as many of the unknowns and perceived fears of going to Palestine and this area. All and all if you read no further and wanted to take away one thing from this, I will easily say this trip was one of the most enriching and rewarding to date and I have traveled quite a bit of the world over the years. The Trip There Flying from the US there is only one non-stop option which is EL AL airlines which I took. I know many of you are from the UK so you have many other options and it's a much shorter trip. Regardless of where you come from I can say there is definitely an advantage to taking EL AL regardless of the stops and that is being an Israeli airline there security is just unmatched. While you will probably get a 10min interview on your trip and who you are before boarding, one you arrive you will most likely speed right through customs. Almost everyone I spoke to that was held up at Ben Gurion ( main airport in Tel Aviv) flew from other airlines but ultimately was just a small inconvenience and were then on their way. Arrival I never like to encourage being untruthful but in this case at the very least "withholding certain information" will definitely be your best bet when being questioned about your destination on the trip either before your departure or after arrival and make no mistake, you will be questioned. Odds are you will be staying at least a night or two in Tel Aviv, which I absolutely recommend anyway, so best to give those details of your trip to authorities. Know that if you are not Israeli it is 100% legal for you to visit any area in Palestine but that doesn't mean many Israelis may justy not like the idea you are going and will go out of their way to make things difficult for you in the way of interview delays ect. Ultimately you will be ok either way but I just recommend the path of least resistance. Tel Aviv Upon arrival and or or before leaving you should absolutely explore Tel Aviv. Great people, history, food and one thing I would highly recommend is a tour on foot called "Delicious Israel". This is a 6 hour on foot tour of Tel Aviv it's history and its amazing diverse cuisine. The tour is done by Avi who aside from speaking a mind boggling 12 languages, is an absolute library of knowledge and will give you one amazing experience of sightseeing, history and most of all local food. Doing this all on foot also gives you a great lay of the land. I'm not a fan of tours with large groups and this is not one of those and if you are lucky will end up with just 2-3 other people like I had. I will leave info and links to all things recommended at the end of this guide. Getting to The Walled Off So this is the item that probably caused me the most anxiety from the trip as I just could not get any concise answer on the best way to do this. I was given countless recommendations on everything from shuttles, taxis and car services, none of which were direct and all required getting dropped off at the palestinian border and then taking another ride into the "forbidden zone". First I will give you my trial and error experience and while my experience gave me one hell of a story and got the adrenalin up there for a bit, I'll give you the magic key to provide a worry free non-stop service to the hotel from anywhere in Tel Aviv which I figured out later. The Way Not to Go I was in Tel Aviv 5 days before heading to the Walled Off so had a good amount of time to ask around and try to figure the best way to get to the hotel. I even spoke to a few people that had already visited before my trip and was told to take a shuttle to the checkpoint and then transfer to a Palestinian cab to the hotel. One thing to note is that even discussing going to the Palestinian area with Israelis is awkward at best. Most don't know the best way because they simply have never gone and believe it or not it is actually illegal for them to go. So as you can expect most just have it out of their heads as an option, so to even discuss it seems almost uncomfortable to them. I have to note that while most don't, some Israelis do go and actually met several at the Walled Off who just are not swayed by the social norms and weren't going to be deterred. The people working at my first hotel were actually very friendly and helpful so when I asked them the best way for me to go they said they would make a fw phone calls and arrange it for me which was great. I actually had to pull the destination up on google maps to make sure they knew exactly where I wanted to go. of course I was told numerous times "this is an area we can not go" as to explain their lack of knowledge on how to best do it. Finally they got back to me with a car service that would take me "as far as he could" and then I would take a Palestinian cab from there. I was quoted 400 shekels, about $100, and being a private car on my own schedule I felt it worth it. There are shuttles that can do this for as little as 50 shekels. So on the day of my departure my driver is right on time, actually early, and loads my luggage and off I go. So after a nice scenic 90 min drive we finally get to an intersection which is obviously close. There is a ominous Israeli guard tower and a few even more disconcerting signs warning of the dangers of entering. So the driver just pulled over and says "OK". I'm thinking "OK what" where the fk am I supposed to go. He basically just points and keep saying "OK". I soon realized he just wanted me out at this point and wasn't going to provide any other assistance. So he drives off and there I am on the side of the road with a suitcase and backpack. Mind you there is absolutely no one on foot and cars are driving by, all arab, entering the zone. At this point I actually had a laugh at my situation and while I had no idea what I was going to do and was definitely worried this is what adventure is all about. So I'm wheeling my suitcase up to the sign above and just taking in my situation when I see an Israeli guard in the tower looking at me. I mean how can he not, I'm sticking out like a sore thumb and obviously just lost. I turn around and head over to the tower and when I'm sure I get eye contact I give the hands in the air "wtf am I supposed to go" to him. He motions me to come around to the tower so I do. I hear a few metal doors open and close and a young Israeli soldier emerges outfitted like a spec ops team member and his AR on the ready. Once I see his finger drop from covering the trigger I show him the Walled Off location on my phone and ask how do I get there. he takes the phone studies it and asks "You're not Israeli are you?" I say no and he remarks "hmmm...well you should be ok. Just walk over there and stop a car for a ride." So after thanking him off I go assessing cars driving by and the occupants. Most are full of people wrapped in keffiyehs with only their eyes showing giving me a quick glance and passing. Finally a van turns and the driver looks at me and I just wave him down. The van stops, door slides open and I jump in without a word said and sit next to three women with only their eyes visible. Another great moment for sure. So I get dumped again, give the driver a few shekels and I'm back to rolling my suitcase now deep in the border and in the center of what looks to be a small third world town . My phone is now on one bar with a weak 3G signal so I can just barely get my position and direction but am forging on, my suitcase wheels struggling on the dirt and gravel when I come to Ala. Ala is standing by a car converted to cab with a big friendly smile and asks "Where are you going my friend?" I say the Walled Off and he replies "No problem, I take you." he thrown my bags in the trunk and before we go he asks if I'm hungry. I probably would have been if it wasn't for my adrenalin level but even after saying no, Ala produces a tinfoil covered plate and says " My wife made me cake for my birthday, have some...she is best cook." he was right, it was an Egyptian dessert called Umm Ali so we both stood at the trunk, ate the pastry and off we went to the hotel which was a 5 min drive. I have to admit, even though Ala was great I was thrilled at the sight of the Walled Off and what a site it is. In true banksy fashion you are literally living in a corrupted oil. The juxtaposition of this towering war battered wall with guard towers literally 15 feet from the twinkling Walled Off Hotel sign , red curtain draped entry with a formal doorman at attention sporting a top hat. Just standing there was worth the trip. The Way to Go After being there and making many friend and connections I found Nabeel. Nabeel is quite the asset as he is actually Palestinian but lives in Israel, speaks Hebrew and is one of the few that can drive freely from Tel Aviv to palestine. What a score and I highly advise using him getting to and from the hotel as he can provide trouble free non stop service. He charged me 400 shekels ($100) for the entire trip back to my hotel in Tel Aviv and actually made a few stops on the way running some errands and was happy to do so. The shuttles charge per person anyway and are not direct so if you have 2-3 people you'll end up spending more and still have to hire another ride once in Palestine. The Hotel As you can imagine the hotel is truly an experience and as many pictures and stories I can provide will still not come close to the experience you'll have actually being there.The staff is extremely friendly, helpful and Wisam, the hotel owner, is fantastic and will help or arrange anything you may need. I spent a good amount of time with Wisam and he has actually been working with Mr B since Santa's Ghetto back in 07 so as you can imagine the stories are great and plentiful. I was lucky enough to book both the Banksy room and Presidential which truly was over the top. It's just surreal being there surrounded by Banksy art only to walk out on the balcony to see this ominous wall next to you snaking through the horizon as far as the eye can see and the sounds of the evening prayers echoing throughout. Other than the rooms the hotel has an exhibition off the lobby that banksy put together giving the history of what is going on in the area and with Palestinians. Up stairs is a gallery of local artists. Both are available all day to hotel residents and selected hours for non residents for a fee. The Sights Being in Bethlehem there is just a wealth of amazing historic and cultural things to see and do so if you have already chose the Hotel tour option that is great but if not, I have an even better way to go using two local guides there. One is actually Ali my driver that took me to the hotel. I ended up spending another full day with him and he took me everywhere and ended the trip with having a late lunch his wife cooked at his home with his 4 kids. Also an experience I will never forget. The other guide I highly recommend is Saeid who actually gives the Refugee tour for the hotel which is definitely a must. You can hear about what is going on there but nothing compares to seeing it yourself and hearing the stories from the people who live there. The Hotel tours are group tours but you can actually hire these guides yourself for a private tour for less than booking through the hotel. I actually ran into Saeid when visiting the Church of the Nativity and even though I wasn't with him that day he took me and helped me bypass all the lines and crowds to see everything in a fraction of the time it would normally take. Local guides can pretty much go anywhere and skip any lines or crowds. Things are also extremely inexpensive in Palestine especially when not going to the main tourist areas. Both Ali and Saeid both took me to great shops and hidden spots for things like hand carved works, knitted items and food as well. Leaving Definitely use Nabeel to get back to tel Aviv direct or at the very least have the hotel arrange it. Note the hotel can pretty much arrange anything for you but will just end up costing you more, sometimes almost double so I'd recommend using these people direct and getting the best price. In Summary All and all, as mentioned, this ranks up there as one of the best trips and experiences of my life. It is so much more than the Hotel and I absolutely believe this was Banksy's idea as well. Just get them there and let being there and the journey do and say the rest. There is so much more I could cover and so many things I learned and experienced but I'll leave the rest for you to experience.All I can say is go with an open mind and let the things you actually see, experience and feel form you own opinion. You will definitely be thrown everyone else's opinions, most who have never been there or seen what you will see so also keep that in mind as well. I am listing all the contacts mentioned below but if anyone might have any other questions please feel free to PM or email me direct. Best, Eric Tel Aviv Avi - Stellar Tel Aviv guide for a food and cultural walking tour +972-54-545-4200 Arik - Fantastic guide for Jerusalem, Dead Sea and countless other sites. +972-54-224-0470 Palestine Ala - Phenomenal guide for Palestine +972 52 273-1610 Saeid - Another great guide for Palestine and the Refugee camp +972 52-339-9862 Nabeel - Driver that can take you direct between walled Off and Tel Aviv +052 88 64232 This is still one of the greatest posts I've ever seen on here.
|
|