monsoonking
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๐จ๏ธ 143
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July 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by monsoonking on May 29, 2015 15:38:59 GMT 1, he SHOULD be carefully generating some new image. Hire a model, take a photo, think about the text surrounding the model carefully, maybe go through a few revisions. generate some subtext, and additional meaning through the specific words and screen names he chooses. throw in some of the casual racism or other things that completely slide by in internet comments and so on. then he would be creating art. from the ones i have seen they are banal at best, and i shudder to think of what they are at worst. This is lazy first, second clearly disrespectful to the original creator, probably illegal. The legality is third with 2 far more important reasons for it not to exist 1st and 2nd. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less.
he SHOULD be carefully generating some new image. Hire a model, take a photo, think about the text surrounding the model carefully, maybe go through a few revisions. generate some subtext, and additional meaning through the specific words and screen names he chooses. throw in some of the casual racism or other things that completely slide by in internet comments and so on. then he would be creating art. from the ones i have seen they are banal at best, and i shudder to think of what they are at worst. This is lazy first, second clearly disrespectful to the original creator, probably illegal. The legality is third with 2 far more important reasons for it not to exist 1st and 2nd. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less.
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monsoonking
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 143
๐๐ป 81
July 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by monsoonking on May 29, 2015 15:57:20 GMT 1, Nice rationale for a weak and lazy idea. You can rationalise anything if you try hard enough. I don't see how the artists intention or the setting the work is shown in can get round the fact that it is stealing someone elses work. As others have said, the Suicide Girls image was a studio shot, not a quick selfie, so it completely misses the mark in terms of a commentary on selfie culture / social media etc. It is also totally plausible that the original photographer has already displayed this work on a larger scale in a gallery context so I don't see what Richard Prince is contributing. Banksy images are all over social media, surrounded in dumb chatter, misappropriation and whatever else. Is it now ok for me to reproduce an Instagrammed Banksy image onto a large canvas, display in a gallery to create a different viewer experience, and charge fortunes for it, citing myself as the artist? I don't understand the rationale that he's "stealing". Is he claiming he took these photographs? Is he trying to promote his own lifestyle/erotica website using these images? The Suicide Girls image may be a studio shot, but it's still trying to convey something via social media, just as a selfie is (though I'll agree that it's perhaps not the best example of this phenomenon).
Perhaps you don't find this work interesting, and that's certainly your right. It may well be weak and lazy. I just think this simplistic, foot stomping view that he used someone else's image in his work and is therefore some sort of arch plagiarizer is totally missing the point.
You're welcome to post Banksy Instagrams on a gallery wall and try to charge a fortune. No one will pay a fortune of course, because you haven't built an art practice around the concept of appropriation. You'd just be ripping off Richard Prince
Nice rationale for a weak and lazy idea. You can rationalise anything if you try hard enough. I don't see how the artists intention or the setting the work is shown in can get round the fact that it is stealing someone elses work. As others have said, the Suicide Girls image was a studio shot, not a quick selfie, so it completely misses the mark in terms of a commentary on selfie culture / social media etc. It is also totally plausible that the original photographer has already displayed this work on a larger scale in a gallery context so I don't see what Richard Prince is contributing. Banksy images are all over social media, surrounded in dumb chatter, misappropriation and whatever else. Is it now ok for me to reproduce an Instagrammed Banksy image onto a large canvas, display in a gallery to create a different viewer experience, and charge fortunes for it, citing myself as the artist? I don't understand the rationale that he's "stealing". Is he claiming he took these photographs? Is he trying to promote his own lifestyle/erotica website using these images? The Suicide Girls image may be a studio shot, but it's still trying to convey something via social media, just as a selfie is (though I'll agree that it's perhaps not the best example of this phenomenon). Perhaps you don't find this work interesting, and that's certainly your right. It may well be weak and lazy. I just think this simplistic, foot stomping view that he used someone else's image in his work and is therefore some sort of arch plagiarizer is totally missing the point. You're welcome to post Banksy Instagrams on a gallery wall and try to charge a fortune. No one will pay a fortune of course, because you haven't built an art practice around the concept of appropriation. You'd just be ripping off Richard Prince
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twist65
Junior Member
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November 2008
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by twist65 on May 29, 2015 16:21:28 GMT 1, Ha yes well i'd hate to be thought of as a third rate Richard Prince!
I get what you're saying, and I do see artistic merit to the concept I just don't think these examples hit the spot. I don't know enough about RP to know if these are his best images exploring this theme or just pretty bad examples which (in my opinion) he is rightly getting some flak for, certainly in the case of the Suicide Girls image. There are millions of images out there and surely cleverer ways to explore this.
And whilst it does promote thought and debate around the subject, I just think on the whole artists should be on the side of protecting their and their peers intellectual copyright. Just as RP should get paid for the works he sells, so should the artists he borrows from. I just can't buy the argument that recontexualising the setting of an image makes it something totally different entirely. At the very least it should be a collaborative piece, or the original image maker credited in the way that Shepard Fairey has to with the photographers he borrows from these days..
Ha yes well i'd hate to be thought of as a third rate Richard Prince!
I get what you're saying, and I do see artistic merit to the concept I just don't think these examples hit the spot. I don't know enough about RP to know if these are his best images exploring this theme or just pretty bad examples which (in my opinion) he is rightly getting some flak for, certainly in the case of the Suicide Girls image. There are millions of images out there and surely cleverer ways to explore this.
And whilst it does promote thought and debate around the subject, I just think on the whole artists should be on the side of protecting their and their peers intellectual copyright. Just as RP should get paid for the works he sells, so should the artists he borrows from. I just can't buy the argument that recontexualising the setting of an image makes it something totally different entirely. At the very least it should be a collaborative piece, or the original image maker credited in the way that Shepard Fairey has to with the photographers he borrows from these days..
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by maddoghoek100 on May 29, 2015 23:11:24 GMT 1, yeah i am going to disagree with you on several levels there. IF you believe that there is something worthwhile and prince has something to say then a manufactured image should be better suited than a found image. A found image will always be compromised in some way from a pure artistic vision.
I will draw a comparison between art and journalism.
- IF you think that prince is documenting a cultural phenomenon he should do so, cataloging the found images and leaving them unchanged. That is called journalism - IF he is creating art, that seeks to comment on a cultural phenomenon then no found image can typify the phenomenon as he sees it as well as a staged photo can. In many cases this will become parody, which is protected fair use. Any found image will by definition be a compromised imitation of his vision.
I do not believe prince has something to say, i do believe his contribution is diminimus, and i do not think that these images add to a cultural discussion on any topic of importance. They are neither art, nor journalism. They are self indulgent junk created for people with more money than sense or taste. I would not mind a thoughtful or thought provoking piece on the corrupting narcissism of social media, this is just not it.
he SHOULD be carefully generating some new image. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less.
yeah i am going to disagree with you on several levels there. IF you believe that there is something worthwhile and prince has something to say then a manufactured image should be better suited than a found image. A found image will always be compromised in some way from a pure artistic vision. I will draw a comparison between art and journalism. - IF you think that prince is documenting a cultural phenomenon he should do so, cataloging the found images and leaving them unchanged. That is called journalism - IF he is creating art, that seeks to comment on a cultural phenomenon then no found image can typify the phenomenon as he sees it as well as a staged photo can. In many cases this will become parody, which is protected fair use. Any found image will by definition be a compromised imitation of his vision. I do not believe prince has something to say, i do believe his contribution is diminimus, and i do not think that these images add to a cultural discussion on any topic of importance. They are neither art, nor journalism. They are self indulgent junk created for people with more money than sense or taste. I would not mind a thoughtful or thought provoking piece on the corrupting narcissism of social media, this is just not it. he SHOULD be carefully generating some new image. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less.
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coller
Junior Member
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April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on May 29, 2015 23:25:35 GMT 1, I see a vicious (and illogical) circle if the legal argument for permitting Prince to use the images hinges (at least, in part) on his being able to successfully get them into high-end galleries/buyers because the legal condonation of the appropriation presumably makes it that much harder for less-established artists to place their art in those types of distribution channels. To put it another way, while reasonable minds can differ, I personally don't see how creating a fixed and sized version of a piece of digital art and then using one's marketplace position to have the analog image offered to high-end buyers through a gallery is materially transformative or promotes the creation of new generative work---the latter being the main point of having copyright laws in the first place. I am aware of the Second Circuit's holding in Cariou but (a) see the works in the Cariou case as having been much more modified than the Instagram pictures/captions here, (b) think the panel got it wrong on some of the legal issues related to the traditional fair-use factors when viewed with the underlying purpose of the Copyright Act in mind, (c) question whether some of the calls---which seemed to be fairly typical factual questions---were appropriately decided by an appellate court at all, and (d) don't view the issue as nationally settled given the cert denial. I agree; also see a potential lawsuit from Instagram that - if presented correctly - could win and crush the exhibit. That's up to them.
I see a vicious (and illogical) circle if the legal argument for permitting Prince to use the images hinges (at least, in part) on his being able to successfully get them into high-end galleries/buyers because the legal condonation of the appropriation presumably makes it that much harder for less-established artists to place their art in those types of distribution channels. To put it another way, while reasonable minds can differ, I personally don't see how creating a fixed and sized version of a piece of digital art and then using one's marketplace position to have the analog image offered to high-end buyers through a gallery is materially transformative or promotes the creation of new generative work---the latter being the main point of having copyright laws in the first place. I am aware of the Second Circuit's holding in Cariou but (a) see the works in the Cariou case as having been much more modified than the Instagram pictures/captions here, (b) think the panel got it wrong on some of the legal issues related to the traditional fair-use factors when viewed with the underlying purpose of the Copyright Act in mind, (c) question whether some of the calls---which seemed to be fairly typical factual questions---were appropriately decided by an appellate court at all, and (d) don't view the issue as nationally settled given the cert denial. I agree; also see a potential lawsuit from Instagram that - if presented correctly - could win and crush the exhibit. That's up to them.
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monsoonking
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 143
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July 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by monsoonking on May 30, 2015 1:34:00 GMT 1, yeah i am going to disagree with you on several levels there. IF you believe that there is something worthwhile and prince has something to say then a manufactured image should be better suited than a found image. A found image will always be compromised in some way from a pure artistic vision. I will draw a comparison between art and journalism. - IF you think that prince is documenting a cultural phenomenon he should do so, cataloging the found images and leaving them unchanged. That is called journalism - IF he is creating art, that seeks to comment on a cultural phenomenon then no found image can typify the phenomenon as he sees it as well as a staged photo can. In many cases this will become parody, which is protected fair use. Any found image will by definition be a compromised imitation of his vision. I do not believe prince has something to say, i do believe his contribution is diminimus, and i do not think that these images add to a cultural discussion on any topic of importance. They are neither art, nor journalism. They are self indulgent junk created for people with more money than sense or taste. I would not mind a thoughtful or thought provoking piece on the corrupting narcissism of social media, this is just not it. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less. If these images were presented by a journalist, in a setting for journalism (like a newspaper or magazine), and were accompanied by journalistic commentary, I'd call is journalism. But since they're presented by an artist, in an art setting, accompanied by artistic commentary, it's art. Like it or not. Setting matters; that's the crux of Prince's work.
You're free to dislike Prince and think his contribution is diminimus. There are certainly a lot of people who agree with you. However, most art critics would regard appropriation artists like Koons and Prince among the most important and influential of the latter half of the 20th century (how's that for an appeal to authority!).
I saw these works at Art Frieze and they were consistently mobbed by visitors. They clearly interested people and spoke to them. Is that enough to call it great art? Maybe not, but I think enough to consider them with an open mind.
yeah i am going to disagree with you on several levels there. IF you believe that there is something worthwhile and prince has something to say then a manufactured image should be better suited than a found image. A found image will always be compromised in some way from a pure artistic vision. I will draw a comparison between art and journalism. - IF you think that prince is documenting a cultural phenomenon he should do so, cataloging the found images and leaving them unchanged. That is called journalism - IF he is creating art, that seeks to comment on a cultural phenomenon then no found image can typify the phenomenon as he sees it as well as a staged photo can. In many cases this will become parody, which is protected fair use. Any found image will by definition be a compromised imitation of his vision. I do not believe prince has something to say, i do believe his contribution is diminimus, and i do not think that these images add to a cultural discussion on any topic of importance. They are neither art, nor journalism. They are self indulgent junk created for people with more money than sense or taste. I would not mind a thoughtful or thought provoking piece on the corrupting narcissism of social media, this is just not it. If he's generating new imagery, it's less effective as observation of a cultural phenomenon. The new imagery is making a separate statement and becomes loaded in itself. The fact that they're actual photos posted on Instagram makes them more interesting, not less. If these images were presented by a journalist, in a setting for journalism (like a newspaper or magazine), and were accompanied by journalistic commentary, I'd call is journalism. But since they're presented by an artist, in an art setting, accompanied by artistic commentary, it's art. Like it or not. Setting matters; that's the crux of Prince's work. You're free to dislike Prince and think his contribution is diminimus. There are certainly a lot of people who agree with you. However, most art critics would regard appropriation artists like Koons and Prince among the most important and influential of the latter half of the 20th century (how's that for an appeal to authority!). I saw these works at Art Frieze and they were consistently mobbed by visitors. They clearly interested people and spoke to them. Is that enough to call it great art? Maybe not, but I think enough to consider them with an open mind.
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thomasmer
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,107
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July 2014
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by thomasmer on May 30, 2015 1:56:59 GMT 1, Its pretty simple really.
Can you tell an artist that he/she can or can't paint something? The cornerstone of what an artist does, paints what he/she sees, he can paint what ever he/she wants
Then you have to add in modern techniques.
This is what you have.
Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity.
Its pretty simple really.
Can you tell an artist that he/she can or can't paint something? The cornerstone of what an artist does, paints what he/she sees, he can paint what ever he/she wants
Then you have to add in modern techniques.
This is what you have.
Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity.
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
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April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on May 30, 2015 2:14:48 GMT 1, Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity. I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art.
Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass.
Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity. I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art. Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass.
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,174
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July 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by andyroo0312 on May 30, 2015 4:01:38 GMT 1, SG website is one of my favourites but i am a sucker for chicks with tatts and piercings. You can buy the image in question of SG,s website for $90. All this stuff gets people talking and that can't be a bad thing can it?
SG website is one of my favourites but i am a sucker for chicks with tatts and piercings. You can buy the image in question of SG,s website for $90. All this stuff gets people talking and that can't be a bad thing can it?
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thomasmer
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,107
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July 2014
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by thomasmer on May 30, 2015 4:15:34 GMT 1, Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity. I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art. Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass. Is that not art in itself?
Please dont add money, emotions and ownership to a work of art, if you do you're crushing creativity. I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art. Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass. Is that not art in itself?
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
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April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on May 30, 2015 7:36:40 GMT 1, I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art. Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass. Is that not art in itself? Thanks James Franco
I think that's ironic, since this exhibit - and most of Prince's career - finds the root of its creativity in money, emotions and ownership of art. Prince is messing with everyone; he's like the version of Banksy that trolls instead of inspires. Yes, it's "art;" mostly because it upsets a lot of people and creates a discussion. In that sense it's enthralling, but the discussions his works create are always ones where nearly all participants are unhappy. That's why he's a bit of an ass. Is that not art in itself? Thanks James Franco
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on May 30, 2015 13:08:18 GMT 1, I appreciate Richard Prince, and have followed his work through the Marlboro Men, biker photos, jokes, car hoods, etc.
But what SG is doing here is fanfckingtastic!!! All the players meet and rumble in the same pit. Great!
I appreciate Richard Prince, and have followed his work through the Marlboro Men, biker photos, jokes, car hoods, etc.
But what SG is doing here is fanfckingtastic!!! All the players meet and rumble in the same pit. Great!
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,174
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July 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by andyroo0312 on May 30, 2015 14:38:23 GMT 1, I appreciate Richard Prince, and have followed his work through the Marlboro Men, biker photos, jokes, car hoods, etc. But what SG is doing here is fanfckingtastic!!! All the players meet and rumble in the same pit. Great! I would love to rumble with the girls from SG.. Long live chicks with tatts and peircings that are not on Psychotropic med,s..
I appreciate Richard Prince, and have followed his work through the Marlboro Men, biker photos, jokes, car hoods, etc. But what SG is doing here is fanfckingtastic!!! All the players meet and rumble in the same pit. Great! I would love to rumble with the girls from SG.. Long live chicks with tatts and peircings that are not on Psychotropic med,s..
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by maddoghoek100 on May 30, 2015 19:58:21 GMT 1, people watch keeping up with the Kardashinas in droves, is that enough to consider it great television? IF someone put out a dubbed version of the kardashinas with the voice over that made comments on the nature of watching the kardashians, would it be trans-formative art....maybe.
not all work done by good artist is good work, but it is undeniable that he did not obtain permission to use the images remains both tacky and disrespectful.
I saw these works at Art Frieze and they were consistently mobbed by visitors. They clearly interested people and spoke to them. Is that enough to call it great art? Maybe not, but I think enough to consider them with an open mind.
people watch keeping up with the Kardashinas in droves, is that enough to consider it great television? IF someone put out a dubbed version of the kardashinas with the voice over that made comments on the nature of watching the kardashians, would it be trans-formative art....maybe. not all work done by good artist is good work, but it is undeniable that he did not obtain permission to use the images remains both tacky and disrespectful. I saw these works at Art Frieze and they were consistently mobbed by visitors. They clearly interested people and spoke to them. Is that enough to call it great art? Maybe not, but I think enough to consider them with an open mind.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on May 30, 2015 20:09:40 GMT 1, From what is on wiki, Prince tends to use out of copyright photos of celebrities and this instagram theft could be that he believes the people whose photos he stole are not wealthy enough to mount a legal case against him.
It's still theft in my book even if he slightly altered the original photo as the person who took the original did all the work and peoples personal photos are personal to them.
Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner.
Not all use lawyers.
From what is on wiki, Prince tends to use out of copyright photos of celebrities and this instagram theft could be that he believes the people whose photos he stole are not wealthy enough to mount a legal case against him.
It's still theft in my book even if he slightly altered the original photo as the person who took the original did all the work and peoples personal photos are personal to them.
Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner.
Not all use lawyers.
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
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April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on May 31, 2015 1:01:39 GMT 1, Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner. Not all use lawyers. They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner. Not all use lawyers. They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on May 31, 2015 15:42:55 GMT 1, Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner. Not all use lawyers. They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bullshit which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
Some people who take offence could just walk in the gallery and remove the photo or demand a percentage from the gallery owner. Not all use lawyers. They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bullshit which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
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April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on May 31, 2015 21:06:11 GMT 1, They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bulls**t which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation.
Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit.
That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
They'd tell the person to come back with a lawyer.
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bulls**t which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation. Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit. That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 17:14:49 GMT 1,
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bulls**t which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation. Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit. That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bullshit.
Some people don't bother with lawyers.
Or someone else might just re photograph Princes art at an expo or off the net and decide to resell them under their name. Looking at princes website he aint much of an artist altho he is fairly competent.
It looks like a gimmick he used this re appropriation bulls**t which was in vogue in the 60's and 70's and with the right PR and schmoozing the right people Prince is making money out of it which is his main motivation.
I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation. Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit. That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bullshit.
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
๐๐ป 2,371
April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on Jun 2, 2015 2:17:16 GMT 1, I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation. Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit. That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bulls**t.
Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won.
I think my point was that in order to achieve what you expressed - going into the Gallery and successfully getting a portion of the profits from these pieces - would require not only a lawyer, but a good lawyer ready for substantial litigation. Prince has guiding precedent literally under his name; he's viewed as legally untouchable. Not saying that's the actual case, but he knows that anyone who wants to step up will need to put in significant money toward a suit. That's why the best entity to shut this whole thing down is Instagram; they have retained counsel and the best legal arguments on their side.
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bulls**t.
Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won.
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
๐๐ป 8,981
August 2011
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Dr Plip on Jun 2, 2015 10:43:03 GMT 1,
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bulls**t.
Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won.
Apparently he's gifted a few of the instagram prints to some of the original "creators" that asked nicely. That's a good way to rub the others up the wrong way. Funny business this art thing.
I agree with what you are saying but in the real world a lot of people cannot afford and do not use lawyers.
The woman who shot Warhol did it because she believed Warhol had used her.
Prince has no guiding precedent Under the law as we are all equal Under the law.
He can say that he is an artist and others can say that people who have stolen other peoples photos etc have been prosecuted.
Being an artist gives Prince no privelige if an offence comes Under postal or wire fraud.
Prince is clever enough to steal from people who cannot afford to litigate.
and as I said if it's good enough for Prince then waht happens if someone re photographs all of Princes so called work and just adds their own name to it.
If Prince litigates he will be exposed as a hypocrit.
Anyway what prince does is not art it's mainly bulls**t.
Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won. Apparently he's gifted a few of the instagram prints to some of the original "creators" that asked nicely. That's a good way to rub the others up the wrong way. Funny business this art thing.
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
๐๐ป 2,371
April 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by coller on Jun 3, 2015 1:12:39 GMT 1, Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won. Apparently he's gifted a few of the instagram prints to some of the original "creators" that asked nicely. That's a good way to rub the others up the wrong way. Funny business this art thing. www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-features/news/landmark-copyright-lawsuit-cariou-v-prince-is-settled/
He knows about copyright; he's just trolling as usual.
Are you familiar with Prince's litigation history? Not to support his actions, but he knows his legal stuff. Arguably the most-cited copyright case in the United States is the one he won. Apparently he's gifted a few of the instagram prints to some of the original "creators" that asked nicely. That's a good way to rub the others up the wrong way. Funny business this art thing. www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-features/news/landmark-copyright-lawsuit-cariou-v-prince-is-settled/He knows about copyright; he's just trolling as usual.
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hackenbush
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 35
๐๐ป 12
September 2014
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by hackenbush on Jul 7, 2015 19:40:04 GMT 1, It would appear that the Suicide Girls 'Edition' is the same size as the R.P. version, i.e. 5' 4" x 4' 6" A bit too big for my walls. Also, they don't seem to be still available from the S.G. website.
I think they were suppose to be an open edition but I bet the printers thought 'Truck that' after doing a few that size.
Also, I must say, that this is one of the most interesting threads that I have read on here. Except for my bit of course.
It would appear that the Suicide Girls 'Edition' is the same size as the R.P. version, i.e. 5' 4" x 4' 6" A bit too big for my walls. Also, they don't seem to be still available from the S.G. website.
I think they were suppose to be an open edition but I bet the printers thought 'Truck that' after doing a few that size.
Also, I must say, that this is one of the most interesting threads that I have read on here. Except for my bit of course.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by met on Jul 10, 2015 16:03:45 GMT 1, I'm playing catch-up with a number of old threads, but many thanks to the contributors on this one.
The debate and exchange of ideas presented here was an enjoyable and interesting read.
Taking a step back (and completely leaving aside ethics, legalities and artistic merit), my view is that, overall, the interest and exposure generated by this playful media battle benefitted all parties.
It's the type of lively drama or faux drama that also helps to reinvigorate the art world and draw additional attention to art more generally.
I'm playing catch-up with a number of old threads, but many thanks to the contributors on this one.
The debate and exchange of ideas presented here was an enjoyable and interesting read.
Taking a step back (and completely leaving aside ethics, legalities and artistic merit), my view is that, overall, the interest and exposure generated by this playful media battle benefitted all parties.
It's the type of lively drama or faux drama that also helps to reinvigorate the art world and draw additional attention to art more generally.
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Denis Bloch Fine Art on Jul 11, 2015 20:10:29 GMT 1, Overheard 50 years ago: "What!?! Those are just soup cans! $500! I'll down to the Kroger's and buy me a real one for 27 cents!" "Comic book pictures!? My kid's got a bunch of them up in his room. I could just go rip one out and frame it!" You are misunderstanding the point of Andy Warhol's appropriation of the Soup Can. The Soup Can or Brillo Boxes were ordinary objects that Warhol was glorifying. Making the mundane extraordinary. Likewise Lichtenstein didnโt just steal comic book art and repaint it โ his original paintings were painted on such a large scale that it equally played with the concepts of perception and space (like a color field artist).
I think Princeโs appropriation concept is simply weak. He wasnโt glorifying the medium of Instagram or anything mundane (I donโt personally find the suicide girls ordinary). And the concept that the gallery or museum wall changes the perception of the art image has been presented (even that is not original).
Overheard 50 years ago: "What!?! Those are just soup cans! $500! I'll down to the Kroger's and buy me a real one for 27 cents!" "Comic book pictures!? My kid's got a bunch of them up in his room. I could just go rip one out and frame it!" You are misunderstanding the point of Andy Warhol's appropriation of the Soup Can. The Soup Can or Brillo Boxes were ordinary objects that Warhol was glorifying. Making the mundane extraordinary. Likewise Lichtenstein didnโt just steal comic book art and repaint it โ his original paintings were painted on such a large scale that it equally played with the concepts of perception and space (like a color field artist). I think Princeโs appropriation concept is simply weak. He wasnโt glorifying the medium of Instagram or anything mundane (I donโt personally find the suicide girls ordinary). And the concept that the gallery or museum wall changes the perception of the art image has been presented (even that is not original).
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 3:34:35 GMT 1, Some good points. Thanks.
I feel Instagram, FB posts are the new unavoidable mundane. To me Prince is working today in the same space as someone like Yung Jake with his FB posts prints, or tangentially, Mark Flood slapping up LIKE tags at Art Basel Miami. Lots of young artists mining social media in all kinds of ways.
Warhol was doing the same thing with consumerism and advertising, by focusing on the items and elevating them to status of high culture art object. Forcing people to first of all notice them, then rethink relations to them, and how they represented a new dynamic, a culture shift and new paradigm for daily living.
Lichtenstein likewise, elevating comic books while shining a light on any merits they may have. As with any important artist, his work and ideas will migrate out of the fine art bubble and into the mainstream. Can follow his lineage along different paths all the way up through Quentin Tarantino, maybe the glut of Marvel movies in theaters for the last 15 years, etc. (To say nothing of 3rd-generation crap like DFace.)
That small segment of humans who cared about art were exposed to this thinking, got it or at least got in on it, and most others were baffled, non-plussed, got a bit angry about the whole thing.
Robert Hughes (in SOTN) stresses the point about Pop Art not being able to survive on the street, that it could only incubate and survive in the gallery--the images just could not compete with the dazzling madness already out there. He then shows a video clip of some huge Alex Katz portraits--that would astound and titillate in a gallery space--embarrassingly anaemic plastered along the top of a building in some billboard nexus like Times Square.
Lots of people think Prince's appropriation concept is weak. A lot of people think the entire concept of appropriation is weak. He generates a lot of hate. But, that is what he does, and the Marlboro Men and so on are here to stay. Someone was bound to reframe social media interaction as fine art, and many others still are.
For me, due to his history and stature in the art world as an appropriationist, no surprise that Prince emerged with the biggest, clearest, easiest to make, largest target of a social media-based artwork.
I like what the Suicide Girls did with it, and bought a couple. The tube came yesterday and it is a monster, almost as tall as I am.
Some good points. Thanks.
I feel Instagram, FB posts are the new unavoidable mundane. To me Prince is working today in the same space as someone like Yung Jake with his FB posts prints, or tangentially, Mark Flood slapping up LIKE tags at Art Basel Miami. Lots of young artists mining social media in all kinds of ways.
Warhol was doing the same thing with consumerism and advertising, by focusing on the items and elevating them to status of high culture art object. Forcing people to first of all notice them, then rethink relations to them, and how they represented a new dynamic, a culture shift and new paradigm for daily living.
Lichtenstein likewise, elevating comic books while shining a light on any merits they may have. As with any important artist, his work and ideas will migrate out of the fine art bubble and into the mainstream. Can follow his lineage along different paths all the way up through Quentin Tarantino, maybe the glut of Marvel movies in theaters for the last 15 years, etc. (To say nothing of 3rd-generation crap like DFace.)
That small segment of humans who cared about art were exposed to this thinking, got it or at least got in on it, and most others were baffled, non-plussed, got a bit angry about the whole thing.
Robert Hughes (in SOTN) stresses the point about Pop Art not being able to survive on the street, that it could only incubate and survive in the gallery--the images just could not compete with the dazzling madness already out there. He then shows a video clip of some huge Alex Katz portraits--that would astound and titillate in a gallery space--embarrassingly anaemic plastered along the top of a building in some billboard nexus like Times Square.
Lots of people think Prince's appropriation concept is weak. A lot of people think the entire concept of appropriation is weak. He generates a lot of hate. But, that is what he does, and the Marlboro Men and so on are here to stay. Someone was bound to reframe social media interaction as fine art, and many others still are.
For me, due to his history and stature in the art world as an appropriationist, no surprise that Prince emerged with the biggest, clearest, easiest to make, largest target of a social media-based artwork.
I like what the Suicide Girls did with it, and bought a couple. The tube came yesterday and it is a monster, almost as tall as I am.
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hackenbush
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 35
๐๐ป 12
September 2014
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by hackenbush on Jul 12, 2015 11:26:02 GMT 1, You bought a couple! Are you considering showing them side by side, or are you thinking like me, there is no way that is going to fit on any of my walls.
You bought a couple! Are you considering showing them side by side, or are you thinking like me, there is no way that is going to fit on any of my walls.
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mishen
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 309
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February 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by mishen on Jan 17, 2016 19:09:16 GMT 1, Gonna put her in my office and sell the other one I have in the future. Thanks!
Gonna put her in my office and sell the other one I have in the future. Thanks!
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 21:20:21 GMT 1, Very nice image
Very nice image
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Kawsisking
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 275
๐๐ป 86
June 2015
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Richard Prince ๐บ๐ธ Painter & Photographer โข Art For Sale, by Kawsisking on Jan 17, 2016 22:31:35 GMT 1, What price range are you seeking?
What price range are you seeking?
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