Octopus UK
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February 2007
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Octopus UK on Jul 9, 2017 18:44:19 GMT 1, OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit.
OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit.
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 9, 2017 18:53:24 GMT 1, OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit.
Art prints should be charged at 5%. It's not fraud it's just claiming the correct amount.
Whether they're signed I don't think matters. It's whether they're made by hand, perhaps limited edition, and not a mass produced item.
OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit. Art prints should be charged at 5%. It's not fraud it's just claiming the correct amount. Whether they're signed I don't think matters. It's whether they're made by hand, perhaps limited edition, and not a mass produced item. |
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rjf76
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January 2015
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by rjf76 on Jul 9, 2017 19:00:48 GMT 1, OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit.
By 'people', are you referring to me?
It's not fraud, it's in line with HMRC's T&C's and I'm only claiming back what I'm entitled too. As I said, I reckon 99% of art shipped have the wrong codes used on the declaration form. It's just lazy...regardless of how easy it is to claim back, it's still annoying.
OK, and I don't want to judge people here, but to make such a claim could be construed as a fraud? I'd be happier to potentially take a 15% hit. By 'people', are you referring to me? It's not fraud, it's in line with HMRC's T&C's and I'm only claiming back what I'm entitled too. As I said, I reckon 99% of art shipped have the wrong codes used on the declaration form. It's just lazy...regardless of how easy it is to claim back, it's still annoying. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 9, 2017 19:26:59 GMT 1, I have even made sure galleries out of Europe clearly mark the correct code, and I've still been charged 20%. It's worse than lazy service. They must knowingly charge the wrong amount.
I have even made sure galleries out of Europe clearly mark the correct code, and I've still been charged 20%. It's worse than lazy service. They must knowingly charge the wrong amount.
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mla
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 9, 2017 19:53:40 GMT 1, For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.
I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate.
For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.
I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate.
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 9, 2017 21:32:38 GMT 1, For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate.ย
If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints.
And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count.
Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area!
For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate.ย [ If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints. And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count. Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area! |
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mla
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June 2015
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 9, 2017 21:55:03 GMT 1, For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate. [ If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints. And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count. Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area!
Inkjet prints are not a grey area; they simply do not meet the criteria.
These prints do not qualify either. The artist had no involvement in the printing process.
For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate. [ If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints. And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count. Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area! Inkjet prints are not a grey area; they simply do not meet the criteria. These prints do not qualify either. The artist had no involvement in the printing process. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 9, 2017 22:24:48 GMT 1, [ If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints. And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count. Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area! Inkjet prints are not a grey area; they simply do not meet the criteria.ย These prints do not qualify either. ย The artist had no involvement in the printing process.
There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process.
[ If you watch that video posted on here by the gallery owner, it would seem to me these prints would meet that criteria. Jones drew on the original plates to make the prints. And silkscreen prints where the artist made the screens would also count. Maybe Inkjet prints would be the greyest area! Inkjet prints are not a grey area; they simply do not meet the criteria.ย These prints do not qualify either. ย The artist had no involvement in the printing process. There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process. |
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mla
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 9, 2017 22:33:54 GMT 1, There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process.
Huh? There are plates in offset lithography.
As for your second point, it's stated elsewhere in the thread that Johns' involvement in the project was that he was simply aware and that's it.
Regardless, I'm fairly certain offset lithographs would be classified as a "photomechanical process" anyways, thus rendering them ineligible for the 9702 tariff classification and related reduced VAT rate.
There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process. Huh? There are plates in offset lithography. As for your second point, it's stated elsewhere in the thread that Johns' involvement in the project was that he was simply aware and that's it. Regardless, I'm fairly certain offset lithographs would be classified as a "photomechanical process" anyways, thus rendering them ineligible for the 9702 tariff classification and related reduced VAT rate. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 9, 2017 22:48:18 GMT 1, There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process. Huh? There are plates in offset lithography. As for your second point, it's stated elsewhere in the thread that Johns' involvement in the project was that he was simply aware and that's it. Regardless, I'm fairly certain offset lithographs would be classified as a "photomechanical process" anyways, thus rendering them ineligible for the 9702 tariff classification and related reduced VAT rate.
Who's making the plates?
Above it was said johns did. Elsewhere it hints he didn't. I sure don't know. But if he made the plates then he took part in the printing process.
There's no printing process with no plates. Don't see how you can say the artist isn't involved on the printing process. Huh? There are plates in offset lithography. As for your second point, it's stated elsewhere in the thread that Johns' involvement in the project was that he was simply aware and that's it. Regardless, I'm fairly certain offset lithographs would be classified as a "photomechanical process" anyways, thus rendering them ineligible for the 9702 tariff classification and related reduced VAT rate. Who's making the plates? Above it was said johns did. Elsewhere it hints he didn't. I sure don't know. But if he made the plates then he took part in the printing process. |
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mla
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 9, 2017 22:54:33 GMT 1, No idea who made the plates; likely not Johns, however.
For the purposes of determining applicability of the reduced VAT rate, I think the point is moot though, as offset lithography appears to be a "photomechanical process".
No idea who made the plates; likely not Johns, however.
For the purposes of determining applicability of the reduced VAT rate, I think the point is moot though, as offset lithography appears to be a "photomechanical process".
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Poly Mindset
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poly Mindset on Jul 9, 2017 23:50:33 GMT 1, For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate.
For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate. This sounds like a perfect opportunity for someone who is paying this tax to call or email Ulea and find out if Johns had anything to do with the plates. Although, it might not be so easy as these were done so long ago that the only people who really know might be the printer and Johns himself. It seems there is a lot of third party here-say with these prints. I honestly think that the prints that sold out rather quickly were a much smaller edition number and it's rather vague when a third party says that these prints were an edition of 200-400 when it seems to me that they really don't know, specially in regards to every print. No offense to Jill at Ulae but I just think because so many of these prints have been recently sold that there really should be more concrete answers. Just my two cents. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 11, 2017 1:10:27 GMT 1, Got Ann update my print should ship this week. I ordered June 21 and located in USA. Just in case anyone in similar position is windering
Got Ann update my print should ship this week. I ordered June 21 and located in USA. Just in case anyone in similar position is windering
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Poesia
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July 2013
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poesia on Jul 11, 2017 17:51:51 GMT 1, For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate. This sounds like a perfect opportunity for someone who is paying this tax to call or email Ulea and find out if Johns had anything to do with the plates. Although, it might not be so easy as these were done so long ago that the only people who really know might be the printer and Johns himself. It seems there is a lot of third party here-say with these prints. I honestly think that the prints that sold out rather quickly were a much smaller edition number and it's rather vague when a third party says that these prints were an edition of 200-400 when it seems to me that they really don't know, specially in regards to every print. No offense to Jill at Ulae but I just think because so many of these prints have been recently sold that there really should be more concrete answers. Just my two cents.
For the purposes of heading 9702, the expression "original engravings, prints and lithographs" means impressions produced directly, in black and white or in colour, of one or of several plates wholly executed by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed by him, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process.I don't think these prints, or a number of prints people apply for (and receive) refunds on actually meet the criteria of the reduced VAT rate. This sounds like a perfect opportunity for someone who is paying this tax to call or email Ulea and find out if Johns had anything to do with the plates. Although, it might not be so easy as these were done so long ago that the only people who really know might be the printer and Johns himself. It seems there is a lot of third party here-say with these prints. I honestly think that the prints that sold out rather quickly were a much smaller edition number and it's rather vague when a third party says that these prints were an edition of 200-400 when it seems to me that they really don't know, specially in regards to every print. No offense to Jill at Ulae but I just think because so many of these prints have been recently sold that there really should be more concrete answers. Just my two cents. Its pretty Clear that these prints due not qualify for the definition on that 9702 Fee. It is stamped as a facsimile which is a copy of a print. This is not an original in any way, clearly the artist is not involved in the printing process or the print. Its a copy of a print and the plates the original print, that print was touched by the artist and he was involved. He would in no way have touched these plates or been part of the process if its a facsimile/Copy. Its clear all you have to do is show them that the print is stamped as such and the link on the website stating as such. I find it Ironic though that many were arguing the claims of these prints as original prints but when hit with 20% fees the story shifts to this being a copy. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 11, 2017 18:14:00 GMT 1,
It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website:
"13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition."
And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print.
It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website: "13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition." And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print. |
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Poesia
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poesia on Jul 11, 2017 18:17:54 GMT 1, It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website: "13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition." And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print.
It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website: "13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition." And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print. Supervision is clearly different than him actually touching or painting on the plates like he did the originals. Supervision is just saying he could have walked in the room and okd their copies and their reproduction of his print. Clearly if he drew on or touched the plates they would have said that. Supervision is really vague. But I stand corrected on the second point. |
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thisisit
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by thisisit on Jul 11, 2017 18:32:20 GMT 1, good for everyone that really really wanted this image in their life.
from a publisher associated with the artist in some way.
its the next best after a printer at home or the local printing service 
so glad so many people seem to have made their dreams come true.
good for everyone that really really wanted this image in their life. from a publisher associated with the artist in some way. its the next best after a printer at home or the local printing service so glad so many people seem to have made their dreams come true. |
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stefan123
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by stefan123 on Jul 11, 2017 18:42:21 GMT 1, just received shipping notification... 
just received shipping notification... |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 11, 2017 19:54:36 GMT 1, It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website: "13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition." And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print. Supervision is clearly different than him actually touching or painting on the plates like he did the originals. Supervision is just saying he could have walked in the room and okd their copies and their reproduction of his print. Clearly if he drew on or touched the plates they would have said that. Supervision is really vague. But I stand corrected on the second point.
It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition.
It's clear you've not read the description of these on their website: "13 facsimiles were printed on the hand-fed offset press by Bill Goldston and James V. Smith under the supervision of the artist before 1982 when the it was abandoned for the complete catalogue raisonne published in 1993. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition." And the second point is just the wrong way around it's 20% if it a copy (Poster), 5% if it's a hand made print. Supervision is clearly different than him actually touching or painting on the plates like he did the originals. Supervision is just saying he could have walked in the room and okd their copies and their reproduction of his print. Clearly if he drew on or touched the plates they would have said that. Supervision is really vague. But I stand corrected on the second point. It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. |
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Poesia
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July 2013
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poesia on Jul 11, 2017 19:59:45 GMT 1, Supervision is clearly different than him actually touching or painting on the plates like he did the originals. Supervision is just saying he could have walked in the room and okd their copies and their reproduction of his print. Clearly if he drew on or touched the plates they would have said that. Supervision is really vague. But I stand corrected on the second point. It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition.
Supervision is clearly different than him actually touching or painting on the plates like he did the originals. Supervision is just saying he could have walked in the room and okd their copies and their reproduction of his print. Clearly if he drew on or touched the plates they would have said that. Supervision is really vague. But I stand corrected on the second point. It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Happy Shopper on Jul 11, 2017 20:15:42 GMT 1, It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition.ย
Yes, you're probably right.
I'll be interested to see the quality when mine arrives. I have a feeling they'll have a halftone screen.
They were probably made on the same offset machine but with reproduction plates.
Looking at Flag 1, the real print is landscape on the paper, and so a much bigger image.
It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition.ย [ Yes, you're probably right. I'll be interested to see the quality when mine arrives. I have a feeling they'll have a halftone screen. They were probably made on the same offset machine but with reproduction plates. Looking at Flag 1, the real print is landscape on the paper, and so a much bigger image. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 11, 2017 20:47:59 GMT 1, It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition.ย
Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative...
The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true.
These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible...
It's not completely clear, but the impression I get from the description, and the video posted earlier about how they worked together, is that these are made with the same plates. Just on smaller paper, unsigned, and with the logo included in the image to distinguish them from the real edition. There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition.ย Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative... The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true. These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible... |
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Poesia
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poesia on Jul 11, 2017 21:08:20 GMT 1, There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition. Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative... The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true. These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible...
I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete.
There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition. Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative... The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true. These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible... I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete. |
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 11, 2017 22:37:51 GMT 1, Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative... The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true. These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible... I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete.
What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist.
This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints.
Your claims seem to be a shifting narrative... The statement that these could be done anywhere is a little generalized and not exactly true. These were printing by same author as originals. Other than their size, the paper, color and printing sequence match the original edition. Printing them somewhere else exactly as stated above is impossible... I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete. What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist. This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints. |
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mla
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 11, 2017 22:55:08 GMT 1, There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition. [ Yes, you're probably right. I'll be interested to see the quality when mine arrives. I have a feeling they'll have a halftone screen. They were probably made on the same offset machine but with reproduction plates. Looking at Flag 1, the real print is landscape on the paper, and so a much bigger image.
There are no "screens" in offset lithography. Given the methodology used in the original prints (stone lithography), I would not expect there to be any halftones present in either the original or these reproductions.
Offset lithography is a different process than stone lithography. These reproductions are not made on the same press as the original prints, as they were done using a different print technique.
There is no way they are made on the same plates. In the video he clearly states that the process of the original was intense and that they would be lucky to get a decent set of prints of those plates. These prints are replications/copies/facsimiles. This process and printmaking could have been done by anyone and in any printing process. But there is 0% chance they used the original plates for these. To run 300-400 prints this printing process would be approached different than a original run on original plates of 45-65 edition. [ Yes, you're probably right. I'll be interested to see the quality when mine arrives. I have a feeling they'll have a halftone screen. They were probably made on the same offset machine but with reproduction plates. Looking at Flag 1, the real print is landscape on the paper, and so a much bigger image. There are no "screens" in offset lithography. Given the methodology used in the original prints (stone lithography), I would not expect there to be any halftones present in either the original or these reproductions. Offset lithography is a different process than stone lithography. These reproductions are not made on the same press as the original prints, as they were done using a different print technique. |
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Poesia
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Poesia on Jul 11, 2017 22:56:00 GMT 1, I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete. What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist. This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints.
Would you be pissed if Pest control used the same screens for original Banksy prints and made and extra 400 copies sold on there website under the supervision of banksy. You should be pissed if the Original screens weren't destroyed.
I clearly stated they can be printed by anyone not anywhere, meaning the prints could have been produced by the head printer or an assistant printer or anyone else working at that print shop other than jasper himself. And on any process meaning any type of litho process they felt like printing in as replicating it wasn't as important to be 100% like the original process. We all know where they were printed at as that's 100% been clear. Also to be an original, usually original plates must be destroyed after edition is complete. What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist. This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints. Thats not a claim its a fact. Im not saying anything that isnt already being said on their website. Weve been over this time and time again, I raised the issues again for people fighting tariff charges that these were not deemed originals but copies. Which we've already discussed pages ago. As far as a vague claim, what do you think the Printers claims are, very vague. Prints were under supervision of Artist? That is not my claim that is their claim and clearly doesn't state that the artist had anything other then supervising on these prints. And they never claim these as originals, or printed off the same plates as the originals which would be obsurd for the original edition holders. Someone other than the artist made the plates, someone other than the artist printed these. I don't understand why my claim is off Im just stating more clearly what the website states. Would you be pissed if Pest control used the same screens for original Banksy prints and made and extra 400 copies sold on there website under the supervision of banksy. You should be pissed if the Original screens weren't destroyed. |
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mla
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by mla on Jul 11, 2017 23:05:43 GMT 1, ULAE provided further information to a poster in this thread, stating that the extent of Johns' involvement in the project was only that he was aware. He had absolutely nothing to do with printing these and they are executed using an entirely different process than the original runs.
ULAE provided further information to a poster in this thread, stating that the extent of Johns' involvement in the project was only that he was aware. He had absolutely nothing to do with printing these and they are executed using an entirely different process than the original runs.
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Jasper Johns ๐บ๐ธ Painter โข Pop Art, Abstract Expressionism , by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 11, 2017 23:39:14 GMT 1, What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist. This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints. Thats not a claim its a fact. Im not saying anything that isnt already being said on their website. Weve been over this time and time again, I raised the issues again for people fighting tariff charges that these were not deemed originals but copies. Which we've already discussed pages ago. As far as a vague claim, what do you think the Printers claims are, very vague. Prints were under supervision of Artist? That is not my claim that is their claim and clearly doesn't state that the artist had anything other then supervising on these prints. And they never claim these as originals, or printed off the same plates as the originals which would be obsurd for the original edition holders. Someone other than the artist made the plates, someone other than the artist printed these. I don't understand why my claim is off Im just stating more clearly what the website states. Would you be pissed if Pest control used the same screens for original Banksy prints and made and extra 400 copies sold on there website under the supervision of banksy. You should be pissed if the Original screens weren't destroyed.
So your claim is that johns didn't actually make the prints. Is anyone claiming he did? Nope...
And yes about the claims you were 100% backwards on that which did it support your facts.
What kind of claim is that. Heres something, the artists releasing original prints today probably have their editions printed by someone besides the actual artist. This vague claim is meaningless to the originality of these prints. Thats not a claim its a fact. Im not saying anything that isnt already being said on their website. Weve been over this time and time again, I raised the issues again for people fighting tariff charges that these were not deemed originals but copies. Which we've already discussed pages ago. As far as a vague claim, what do you think the Printers claims are, very vague. Prints were under supervision of Artist? That is not my claim that is their claim and clearly doesn't state that the artist had anything other then supervising on these prints. And they never claim these as originals, or printed off the same plates as the originals which would be obsurd for the original edition holders. Someone other than the artist made the plates, someone other than the artist printed these. I don't understand why my claim is off Im just stating more clearly what the website states. Would you be pissed if Pest control used the same screens for original Banksy prints and made and extra 400 copies sold on there website under the supervision of banksy. You should be pissed if the Original screens weren't destroyed. So your claim is that johns didn't actually make the prints. Is anyone claiming he did? Nope... And yes about the claims you were 100% backwards on that which did it support your facts. |
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