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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Coach on Sept 27, 2017 11:32:35 GMT 1, Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not?
Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not?
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Rouen Cathedral on Sept 27, 2017 12:41:00 GMT 1, Another debate strategy:
Ignore previous statements by others, cherry pick a couple to fit your narrative, go on a hyperbole filled rant and filabister.
This sure would fit Elizabeth Sloane's word and be the TRUMP card!
Good work :-)
Another debate strategy:
Ignore previous statements by others, cherry pick a couple to fit your narrative, go on a hyperbole filled rant and filabister.
This sure would fit Elizabeth Sloane's word and be the TRUMP card!
Good work :-)
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met
Junior Member
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by met on Sept 28, 2017 23:01:08 GMT 1, Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not? My opinions on the subject are ambivalent. So I don't have a simple answer to your question.
A properly considered position would require a 3 to 5-page essay. It might also take a fortnight for me to come up with text I was satisfied with. What follows instead is a précis.
____________
One thing I can say categorically: The perspex-covered street art I've seen almost always looks atrocious.
But unnecessarily atrocious as well. In most cases, it seems the priority of the relevant property owner has been to get something up quickly, for as little money as possible (i.e. using cheap, shiny, excessively-small sheets of plastic). Protective acrylic could be applied in such a way that it results in a merely disappointing experience for viewers like you and me, rather than a terrible one.
With respect to viewers, note that I make the distinction between:
(i) enthusiasts such as ourselves who are informed on the subject of art history and actually thinking about street pieces (including their placement, context, and immediate environment); and
(ii) the average passerby who doesn't pay too much attention, whose priority might be to ensure they get a flattering selfie for social capital purposes, and who may for these reasons be largely indifferent to the acrylic.
____________
These are my personal objections to covering street work (merely cited, not fleshed out):
1. Aesthetic. 2. Physical barrier created. In relation to the viewer, and to the surroundings the work would otherwise more effectively interact with. 3. Distortion of the work, along with the introduction of a clinical aspect affecting viewer perception and appreciation. 4. The acrylic sheet creating a visual frame, thereby adding a compositional element that previously didn't exist (usually cramping in the work) and impacting how the art is viewed. 5. Philosophical, relating to the nature of street art generally. 6. The assumed intent of the relevant artist.
____________
Now let's look at the alternative.
What would be the outcome of not protecting any street art by Banksy?
Each one of us here knows the answer to this question. We already started to see what would happen with the recent Barbican pieces. Within hours we had the eBay chancer, supremett, making his parasitic appearance. Separately, we had a coattail-riding buffoon, Danny Minnick, with his desperate (yet successful) attempt at basking in reflected glory.
And if these new Banksys had been left uncovered, many other opportunists, trophy hunters, street artists, writers and taggers would have intervened as well for whatever objective. Would that have been a desirable outcome? If so, would it be desirable for all street works by the artist?
____________
Extreme positions against protection being offered to any outdoor work by Banksy often seem based on ideology. For me, they're tragically short-sighted and solipsist.
Of course, decisions we take today will also affect those who come after us.
So let's consider the likely perspectives of future artists, art enthusiasts, collectors, curators, researchers, authors, etc. to whom we have a responsibility.
Query how they would judge you or me if they knew we had ample opportunity to protect in situ (as opposed to cutting out), not all, but a small number of outdoor works by the most famous street artist of our generation.
And instead of doing so, we, in our wisdom, decided the artist's studio output along with digital images of his street pieces would be sufficient for their purposes. That photos of walls rather than the walls themselves would be enough for them to look at and study. That anything else was unacceptable since any attempt at preservation would be "contrary to the spirit of street art".
____________
With Banksy being both a contemporary and polarising figure, I believe emotion often has an unhelpful influence on viewpoints sometimes expressed. This is why illicey offered us such an excellent thought experiment here. I'm giving him or her another respectful nod because their posts didn't at the time receive the recognition they merited:
Imagine an early Basquiat graffiti piece (from, say, 1981) where the property owner had chosen to cover and protect it rather than leave it exposed to the elements.
How would we view that property owner's action today? What would we say to them if they were in front of us?
Presumably, it would be something like, "Thank you for your foresight."
I seriously doubt it would be, "Fuck you and your plastic sheeting. Graffiti's meant to be ephemeral. The 20-year-old artist wouldn't have wanted that."
____________
Coach
A short answer to your question:
Would I like all Banksy street pieces to be covered in perspex? Definitely not.
Do I believe that, on balance, it is a good idea to protect some Banksy street pieces? Most certainly.
Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not? My opinions on the subject are ambivalent. So I don't have a simple answer to your question. A properly considered position would require a 3 to 5-page essay. It might also take a fortnight for me to come up with text I was satisfied with. What follows instead is a précis. ____________ One thing I can say categorically: The perspex-covered street art I've seen almost always looks atrocious. But unnecessarily atrocious as well. In most cases, it seems the priority of the relevant property owner has been to get something up quickly, for as little money as possible (i.e. using cheap, shiny, excessively-small sheets of plastic). Protective acrylic could be applied in such a way that it results in a merely disappointing experience for viewers like you and me, rather than a terrible one. With respect to viewers, note that I make the distinction between: (i) enthusiasts such as ourselves who are informed on the subject of art history and actually thinking about street pieces (including their placement, context, and immediate environment); and (ii) the average passerby who doesn't pay too much attention, whose priority might be to ensure they get a flattering selfie for social capital purposes, and who may for these reasons be largely indifferent to the acrylic. ____________ These are my personal objections to covering street work (merely cited, not fleshed out): 1. Aesthetic. 2. Physical barrier created. In relation to the viewer, and to the surroundings the work would otherwise more effectively interact with. 3. Distortion of the work, along with the introduction of a clinical aspect affecting viewer perception and appreciation. 4. The acrylic sheet creating a visual frame, thereby adding a compositional element that previously didn't exist (usually cramping in the work) and impacting how the art is viewed. 5. Philosophical, relating to the nature of str eet art generally. 6. The assumed intent of the relevant artist. ____________ Now let's look at the alternative. What would be the outcome of not protecting any str eet art by Ban ksy? Each one of us here knows the answer to this question. We already started to see what would happen with the recent Barbican pieces. Within hours we had the eB ay chancer, supremett, making his parasitic appearance. Separately, we had a coattail-riding buffoon, Danny Minnick, with his desperate (yet successful) attempt at basking in reflected glory. And if these new Ban ksys had been left uncovered, many other opportunists, trophy hunters, str eet artists, writers and taggers would have intervened as well for whatever objective. Would that have been a desirable outcome? If so, would it be desirable for all street works by the artist? ____________ Extreme positions against protection being offered to any outdoor work by Ban ksy often seem based on ideology. For me, they're tragically short-sighted and solipsist. Of course, decisions we take today will also affect those who come after us. So let's consider the likely perspectives of future artists, art enthusiasts, collectors, curators, researchers, authors, etc. to whom we have a responsibility. Query how they would judge you or me if they knew we had ample opportunity to protect in situ (as opposed to cutting out), not all, but a small number of outdoor works by the most famous str eet artist of our generation. And instead of doing so, we, in our wisdom, decided the artist's studio output along with digital images of his street pieces would be sufficient for their purposes. That photos of walls rather than the walls themselves would be enough for them to look at and study. That anything else was unacceptable since any attempt at preservation would be "contrary to the spirit of street art". ____________ With Ban ksy being both a contemporary and polarising figure, I believe emotion often has an unhelpful influence on viewpoints sometimes expressed. This is why illicey offered us such an excellent thought experiment here. I'm giving him or her another respectful nod because their posts didn't at the time receive the recognition they merited: Imagine an early Bas quiat graffiti piece (from, say, 1981) where the property owner had chosen to cover and protect it rather than leave it exposed to the elements. How would we view that property owner's action today? What would we say to them if they were in front of us? Presumably, it would be something like, "Thank you for your foresight." I seriously doubt it would be, "Fuck you and your plastic sheeting. Graffiti's meant to be ephemeral. The 20-year-old artist wouldn't have wanted that."____________ Coach A short answer to your question: Would I like all Ban ksy street pieces to be covered in perspex? Definitely not. Do I believe that, on balance, it is a good idea to protect some Ban ksy street pieces? Most certainly.
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nex
Junior Member
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February 2009
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by nex on Sept 29, 2017 0:30:35 GMT 1, As always a great read met, do I agree? No not at all, we have plenty of records of the street pieces digitally, in fact too many and I for the life of me can't see a point in protecting something that by it's very nature interacts with its environment in both good and bad ways, that is it it's essence.
Should we dry freeze a perfect rose for others to see or except everything dies in the end? There's a much healthier lesson in the illusory nature of this form of the statement that is totally belittled by a need to preserve it... for me at least.
(You used some big word but I'm too tired to look it up, but I'm sure I just encapsulated it! )
As always a great read met, do I agree? No not at all, we have plenty of records of the street pieces digitally, in fact too many and I for the life of me can't see a point in protecting something that by it's very nature interacts with its environment in both good and bad ways, that is it it's essence. Should we dry freeze a perfect rose for others to see or except everything dies in the end? There's a much healthier lesson in the illusory nature of this form of the statement that is totally belittled by a need to preserve it... for me at least. (You used some big word but I'm too tired to look it up, but I'm sure I just encapsulated it! )
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Rouen Cathedral on Sept 29, 2017 0:57:17 GMT 1, Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not? My opinions on the subject are ambivalent. So I don't have a simple answer to your question. A properly considered position would require a 3 to 5-page essay. It might also take a fortnight for me to come up with text I was satisfied with. What follows instead is a précis. ____________ One thing I can say categorically: The perspex-covered street art I've seen almost always looks atrocious. But unnecessarily atrocious as well. In most cases, it seems the priority of the relevant property owner has been to get something up quickly, for as little money as possible (i.e. using cheap, shiny, excessively-small sheets of plastic). Protective acrylic could be applied in such a way that it results in a merely disappointing experience for viewers like you and me, rather than a terrible one. With respect to viewers, note that I make the distinction between: (i) enthusiasts such as ourselves who are informed on the subject of art history and actually thinking about street pieces (including their placement, context, and immediate environment); and (ii) the average passerby who doesn't pay too much attention, whose priority might be to ensure they get a flattering selfie for social capital purposes, and who may for these reasons be largely indifferent to the acrylic. ____________ These are my personal objections to covering street work (merely cited, not fleshed out): 1. Aesthetic. 2. Physical barrier created. In relation to the viewer, and to the surroundings the work would otherwise more effectively interact with. 3. Distortion of the work, along with the introduction of a clinical aspect affecting viewer perception and appreciation. 4. The acrylic sheet creating a visual frame, thereby adding a compositional element that previously didn't exist (usually cramping in the work) and impacting how the art is viewed. 5. Philosophical, relating to the nature of str eet art generally. 6. The assumed intent of the relevant artist. ____________ Now let's look at the alternative. What would be the outcome of not protecting any str eet art by Ban ksy? Each one of us here knows the answer to this question. We already started to see what would happen with the recent Barbican pieces. Within hours we had the eB ay chancer, supremett, making his parasitic appearance. Separately, we had a coattail-riding buffoon, Danny Minnick, with his desperate (yet successful) attempt at basking in reflected glory. And if these new Ban ksys had been left uncovered, many other opportunists, trophy hunters, str eet artists, writers and taggers would have intervened as well for whatever objective. Would that have been a desirable outcome? If so, would it be desirable for all street works by the artist? ____________ Extreme positions against protection being offered to any outdoor work by Ban ksy often seem based on ideology. For me, they're tragically short-sighted and solipsist. Of course, decisions we take today will also affect those who come after us. So let's consider the likely perspectives of future artists, art enthusiasts, collectors, curators, researchers, authors, etc. to whom we have a responsibility. Query how they would judge you or me if they knew we had ample opportunity to protect in situ (as opposed to cutting out), not all, but a small number of outdoor works by the most famous str eet artist of our generation. And instead of doing so, we, in our wisdom, decided the artist's studio output along with digital images of his street pieces would be sufficient for their purposes. That photos of walls rather than the walls themselves would be enough for them to look at and study. That anything else was unacceptable since any attempt at preservation would be "contrary to the spirit of street art". ____________ With Ban ksy being both a contemporary and polarising figure, I believe emotion often has an unhelpful influence on viewpoints sometimes expressed. This is why illicey offered us such an excellent thought experiment here. I'm giving him or her another respectful nod because their posts didn't at the time receive the recognition they merited: Imagine an early Bas quiat graffiti piece (from, say, 1981) where the property owner had chosen to cover and protect it rather than leave it exposed to the elements. How would we view that property owner's action today? What would we say to them if they were in front of us? Presumably, it would be something like, "Thank you for your foresight." I seriously doubt it would be, "Fuck you and your plastic sheeting. Graffiti's meant to be ephemeral. The 20-year-old artist wouldn't have wanted that."____________ Coach A short answer to your question: Would I like all Ban ksy street pieces to be covered in perspex? Definitely not. Do I believe that, on balance, it is a good idea to protect some Ban ksy street pieces? Most certainly.
Is basquiat or his work any less great because we didn't have some person throw an ugly plastic sheet over it and 'save' it?
No need for a lengthy post to try and distract. The answer is no.
So whether you would say 'good job' or 'f you' is irrelevant.
Another great read met thanks. Relevant to the question of treating Banksy's work differently to that of other street artists, what is your opinion regarding covering the pieces in Perspex? A good thing or not? My opinions on the subject are ambivalent. So I don't have a simple answer to your question. A properly considered position would require a 3 to 5-page essay. It might also take a fortnight for me to come up with text I was satisfied with. What follows instead is a précis. ____________ One thing I can say categorically: The perspex-covered street art I've seen almost always looks atrocious. But unnecessarily atrocious as well. In most cases, it seems the priority of the relevant property owner has been to get something up quickly, for as little money as possible (i.e. using cheap, shiny, excessively-small sheets of plastic). Protective acrylic could be applied in such a way that it results in a merely disappointing experience for viewers like you and me, rather than a terrible one. With respect to viewers, note that I make the distinction between: (i) enthusiasts such as ourselves who are informed on the subject of art history and actually thinking about street pieces (including their placement, context, and immediate environment); and (ii) the average passerby who doesn't pay too much attention, whose priority might be to ensure they get a flattering selfie for social capital purposes, and who may for these reasons be largely indifferent to the acrylic. ____________ These are my personal objections to covering street work (merely cited, not fleshed out): 1. Aesthetic. 2. Physical barrier created. In relation to the viewer, and to the surroundings the work would otherwise more effectively interact with. 3. Distortion of the work, along with the introduction of a clinical aspect affecting viewer perception and appreciation. 4. The acrylic sheet creating a visual frame, thereby adding a compositional element that previously didn't exist (usually cramping in the work) and impacting how the art is viewed. 5. Philosophical, relating to the nature of str eet art generally. 6. The assumed intent of the relevant artist. ____________ Now let's look at the alternative. What would be the outcome of not protecting any str eet art by Ban ksy? Each one of us here knows the answer to this question. We already started to see what would happen with the recent Barbican pieces. Within hours we had the eB ay chancer, supremett, making his parasitic appearance. Separately, we had a coattail-riding buffoon, Danny Minnick, with his desperate (yet successful) attempt at basking in reflected glory. And if these new Ban ksys had been left uncovered, many other opportunists, trophy hunters, str eet artists, writers and taggers would have intervened as well for whatever objective. Would that have been a desirable outcome? If so, would it be desirable for all street works by the artist? ____________ Extreme positions against protection being offered to any outdoor work by Ban ksy often seem based on ideology. For me, they're tragically short-sighted and solipsist. Of course, decisions we take today will also affect those who come after us. So let's consider the likely perspectives of future artists, art enthusiasts, collectors, curators, researchers, authors, etc. to whom we have a responsibility. Query how they would judge you or me if they knew we had ample opportunity to protect in situ (as opposed to cutting out), not all, but a small number of outdoor works by the most famous str eet artist of our generation. And instead of doing so, we, in our wisdom, decided the artist's studio output along with digital images of his street pieces would be sufficient for their purposes. That photos of walls rather than the walls themselves would be enough for them to look at and study. That anything else was unacceptable since any attempt at preservation would be "contrary to the spirit of street art". ____________ With Ban ksy being both a contemporary and polarising figure, I believe emotion often has an unhelpful influence on viewpoints sometimes expressed. This is why illicey offered us such an excellent thought experiment here. I'm giving him or her another respectful nod because their posts didn't at the time receive the recognition they merited: Imagine an early Bas quiat graffiti piece (from, say, 1981) where the property owner had chosen to cover and protect it rather than leave it exposed to the elements. How would we view that property owner's action today? What would we say to them if they were in front of us? Presumably, it would be something like, "Thank you for your foresight." I seriously doubt it would be, "Fuck you and your plastic sheeting. Graffiti's meant to be ephemeral. The 20-year-old artist wouldn't have wanted that."____________ Coach A short answer to your question: Would I like all Ban ksy street pieces to be covered in perspex? Definitely not. Do I believe that, on balance, it is a good idea to protect some Ban ksy street pieces? Most certainly. Is basquiat or his work any less great because we didn't have some person throw an ugly plastic sheet over it and 'save' it? No need for a lengthy post to try and distract. The answer is no. So whether you would say 'good job' or 'f you' is irrelevant.
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met
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,797
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June 2009
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by met on Oct 13, 2017 4:26:00 GMT 1, I was there when he did this. He was asking everyone if they had a piece of blank paper and then he grabbed the newspaper off a photographer I believe. Value, I'm not sure it's worth anything - let's put it this way it's not worth anything to me.
Just remembered, he took an imprint on white paper and of course you couldn't see anything. He was pissed off and went looking for coloured paper from the car park attendant. Came back empty handed and took the newspaper from the photographer.
There were five people there at the time, four were taking photographs and admiring the art one was only interested in getting imprints.
.dappy already referred to it here, but I'm curious about whether the person you saw looked like this chap:
I was there when he did this. He was asking everyone if they had a piece of blank paper and then he grabbed the newspaper off a photographer I believe. Value, I'm not sure it's worth anything - let's put it this way it's not worth anything to me. Just remembered, he took an imprint on white paper and of course you couldn't see anything. He was pissed off and went looking for coloured paper from the car park attendant. Came back empty handed and took the newspaper from the photographer. There were five people there at the time, four were taking photographs and admiring the art one was only interested in getting imprints. .dappy already referred to it here, but I'm curious about whether the person you saw looked like this chap:
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by theurbancurator100 on Oct 13, 2017 6:19:19 GMT 1, Why are you guys putting this mans face all over UAA? What did he do? Or does his face just fit your narrative?
Why are you guys putting this mans face all over UAA? What did he do? Or does his face just fit your narrative?
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kaos
New Member
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June 2015
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by kaos on Oct 17, 2017 23:11:46 GMT 1, I was there when he did this. He was asking everyone if they had a piece of blank paper and then he grabbed the newspaper off a photographer I believe. Value, I'm not sure it's worth anything - let's put it this way it's not worth anything to me. Just remembered, he took an imprint on white paper and of course you couldn't see anything. He was pissed off and went looking for coloured paper from the car park attendant. Came back empty handed and took the newspaper from the photographer. There were five people there at the time, four were taking photographs and admiring the art one was only interested in getting imprints. .dappy already referred to it here, but I'm curious about whether the person you saw looked like this chap: looks like him.
I was there when he did this. He was asking everyone if they had a piece of blank paper and then he grabbed the newspaper off a photographer I believe. Value, I'm not sure it's worth anything - let's put it this way it's not worth anything to me. Just remembered, he took an imprint on white paper and of course you couldn't see anything. He was pissed off and went looking for coloured paper from the car park attendant. Came back empty handed and took the newspaper from the photographer. There were five people there at the time, four were taking photographs and admiring the art one was only interested in getting imprints. .dappy already referred to it here, but I'm curious about whether the person you saw looked like this chap: looks like him.
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by elevenspots on Oct 17, 2017 23:59:52 GMT 1, Why has the photo got a central news watermark on it??
Why has the photo got a central news watermark on it??
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rjf76
Junior Member
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Also tried to steal one of the eggs from the Pejac sculpture at the London show... ...many others I’m sure.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 7:56:25 GMT 1, What a cnut......
What a cnut......
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Dibbs 45
Junior Member
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October 2012
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Dibbs 45 on Oct 18, 2017 9:05:01 GMT 1, It's hilarious that the guy you guys are referring to may even be commenting on this thread.
It's hilarious that the guy you guys are referring to may even be commenting on this thread.
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 18, 2017 12:17:57 GMT 1, With all the body image detectives on here that commented on the banksy v. 3D body type images. Nothing for this one.
The arms in the eBay photos look different then this guys.
With all the body image detectives on here that commented on the banksy v. 3D body type images. Nothing for this one.
The arms in the eBay photos look different then this guys.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Banksy Original £6k on ebay, by met on Oct 19, 2017 4:55:42 GMT 1, From the Banksy, Basquiat and the Barbican thread here:
the paint is still wet and a few people are pressing paper against the painting taking prints of the Crown on the Ferris wheel. I saw a few nice ones ___________________
good thinking thought quite a smart idea Is this guy on the forum? He just put on up for £1 I suspect he might be.
give the guy some credit for thinking out of the box. Like
banksy said (it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission) A slight mess with the paraphrasing there, but we get the gist. To give credit where credit is due, Grace Hopper also deserves a respectful nod.
Over the years, Banksy has certainly come up with a number of amusing quotes, sometimes with help or inspiration from others.
I was checking earlier to see if he ever commented on buffoons who refer to themselves in the third person when posting online. But sadly I couldn't find anything.
From the Banksy, Basquiat and the Barbican thread here: the paint is still wet and a few people are pressing paper against the painting taking prints of the Crown on the Ferris wheel. I saw a few nice ones ___________________ good thinking thought quite a smart idea Is this guy on the forum? He just put on up for £1 I suspect he might be. give the guy some credit for thinking out of the box. Like
banksy said (it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission)A slight mess with the paraphrasing there, but we get the gist. To give credit where credit is due, Grace Hopper also deserves a respectful nod. Over the years, Ban ksy has certainly come up with a number of amusing quotes, sometimes with help or inspiration from others. I was checking earlier to see if he ever commented on buffoons who refer to themselves in the third person when posting online. But sadly I couldn't find anything.
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detail
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November 2016
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