jbelleit
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by jbelleit on Oct 2, 2017 21:13:07 GMT 1, While I am no pro at spotting it, four of Martin Whatson's butterflies went on sale on eBay 24 hours ago from an art dealer in Beverly Hills, CA. All of the earlier bids definitely looked like shill bidding, though one could not tell for sure because the buyers' names were completely hidden and not like the "a*****g" normal name format. The prices all rise like $50 bucks every few hours all at pretty much the same pace. Then, inexplicably with about 5 minutes left today...all the prices start skyrocketing...and not the normal price hikes like in the last 30 seconds thing. It all looks so strange especially without seeing who bid each time.
Did anyone else notice this shill pricing? Or is it just me...
While I am no pro at spotting it, four of Martin Whatson's butterflies went on sale on eBay 24 hours ago from an art dealer in Beverly Hills, CA. All of the earlier bids definitely looked like shill bidding, though one could not tell for sure because the buyers' names were completely hidden and not like the "a*****g" normal name format. The prices all rise like $50 bucks every few hours all at pretty much the same pace. Then, inexplicably with about 5 minutes left today...all the prices start skyrocketing...and not the normal price hikes like in the last 30 seconds thing. It all looks so strange especially without seeing who bid each time.
Did anyone else notice this shill pricing? Or is it just me...
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touchdowntodd
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,515
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by touchdowntodd on Oct 2, 2017 21:34:22 GMT 1, Seems like it's part of 90% of art auctions that aren't buy it now
Then you magically get an email a couple hours after end that the buyer backed out, and u can have it for your last bid
Hahahaa
Seems like it's part of 90% of art auctions that aren't buy it now
Then you magically get an email a couple hours after end that the buyer backed out, and u can have it for your last bid
Hahahaa
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,867
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September 2013
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eBay shill pricing, by Poster Bob on Oct 2, 2017 21:43:42 GMT 1, The easiest way to tell is to look and see if that bidder is bidding on items by other sellers. If the answer is no then you should assume it is shilling.
The easiest way to tell is to look and see if that bidder is bidding on items by other sellers. If the answer is no then you should assume it is shilling.
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jbelleit
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Posts โข 764
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by jbelleit on Oct 2, 2017 21:45:47 GMT 1, You can't even see the bidder's assumed aliases...all you see is "private listing - bidders' identities protected"...such BS...
You can't even see the bidder's assumed aliases...all you see is "private listing - bidders' identities protected"...such BS...
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chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
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August 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by chevyav53 on Oct 2, 2017 21:53:41 GMT 1, Seems like it's part of 90% of art auctions that aren't buy it now Then you magically get an email a couple hours after end that the buyer backed out, and u can have it for your last bid Hahahaa 
Seems like it's part of 90% of art auctions that aren't buy it now Then you magically get an email a couple hours after end that the buyer backed out, and u can have it for your last bid Hahahaa I've definitely had this happen and I since I have pushed my luck when I thought something was up. Love telling them no when the seller backed out. Let them sit on it and most of the time they have come back and I have received items for much less than I was willing to pay. But yes I have got stuck with an item before, all part of the fun |
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highflyer
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,350
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July 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by highflyer on Oct 2, 2017 23:01:09 GMT 1, I'm really confused, I thought all Ebay sales were real??
Remember that invader print that went for $11k? I still can't believe it.
All part of the fun I guess :-)
I'm really confused, I thought all Ebay sales were real??
Remember that invader print that went for $11k? I still can't believe it.
All part of the fun I guess :-)
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soupy
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,108
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April 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by soupy on Oct 2, 2017 23:08:16 GMT 1, vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding. users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction. it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do. it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care. even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated. i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling.
as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer. that is ebay buyers "doing it right".
vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding. users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction. it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do. it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care. even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated. i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling.
as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer. that is ebay buyers "doing it right".
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jbelleit
New Member
Posts โข 764
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by jbelleit on Oct 3, 2017 14:32:34 GMT 1, Well...I think it worked out for the best in the end. I am 99.9% sure I got a Martin Whatson Butterfly (Green) off of RexRomae last night for a total price of $365 including shipping. Much better than the $500 that the dealer from Beverly Hills jacked it up to...
Well...I think it worked out for the best in the end. I am 99.9% sure I got a Martin Whatson Butterfly (Green) off of RexRomae last night for a total price of $365 including shipping. Much better than the $500 that the dealer from Beverly Hills jacked it up to...
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gd79
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,129
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September 2015
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eBay shill pricing, by gd79 on Oct 3, 2017 15:11:14 GMT 1, vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding.ย users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction.ย it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do.ย it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care.ย even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated.ย i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling. as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer.ย that is ebay buyers "doing it right".
a foolish question I'm sure, but what do the shill bidders get out of this? Who are they? Why bother bidding a price up at the start of an auction and then exiting? Or am I misunderstanding? Excuse my ignorance, have got through life so far without using eBay, at least for anything that attracts much interest
vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding.ย users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction.ย it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do.ย it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care.ย even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated.ย i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling. as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer.ย that is ebay buyers "doing it right". a foolish question I'm sure, but what do the shill bidders get out of this? Who are they? Why bother bidding a price up at the start of an auction and then exiting? Or am I misunderstanding? Excuse my ignorance, have got through life so far without using eBay, at least for anything that attracts much interest |
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,462
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March 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by WOOF on Oct 3, 2017 15:13:02 GMT 1, vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding. users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction. it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do. it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care. even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated. i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling. as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer. that is ebay buyers "doing it right". a foolish question I'm sure, but what do the shill bidders get out of this? Who are they? Why bother bidding a price up at the start of an auction and then exiting? Or am I misunderstanding? Excuse my ignorance, have got through life so far without using eBay, at least for anything that attracts much interest
Shill bids most often come from friends of the seller.
vast majority of ebay auctions have shill bidding. users with zero or little feedback making incremental small max bids with days left in the auction. it's incredibly frustrating but nothing you can do. it locks in a higher price so seller is happy and it makes ebay more money in fees so they don't care. even if seller removes bids from a shiller.... the price is already inflated. i very rarely participate in auctions unless they don't seem to be getting a lot of attention. most recent releases are flooded with interest and therefore attract shilling. as for the run up near the end of auctions.... that's normal as that is when you should enter your "max" bid / highest offer. that is ebay buyers "doing it right". a foolish question I'm sure, but what do the shill bidders get out of this? Who are they? Why bother bidding a price up at the start of an auction and then exiting? Or am I misunderstanding? Excuse my ignorance, have got through life so far without using eBay, at least for anything that attracts much interest Shill bids most often come from friends of the seller. |
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soupy
Junior Member
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April 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by soupy on Oct 3, 2017 15:16:54 GMT 1, yeah. shill bids drive up the price so typically are either alt accounts of the seller or "friends" of the seller. i guess there is always the possibility that they are other owners of the same print being auctioned and are just trying to drive up the established market value. it's a problem that will never get resolved as it goes against the revenue interests of ebay.
yeah. shill bids drive up the price so typically are either alt accounts of the seller or "friends" of the seller. i guess there is always the possibility that they are other owners of the same print being auctioned and are just trying to drive up the established market value. it's a problem that will never get resolved as it goes against the revenue interests of ebay.
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rockbeer
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Posts โข 364
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May 2006
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eBay shill pricing, by rockbeer on Oct 3, 2017 15:24:08 GMT 1, Not just an ebay problem. Even if you're actually in the auction room, you can't ever know for sure what's going on over the phone or that you aren't bidding against the hat stand at the back.
Not just an ebay problem. Even if you're actually in the auction room, you can't ever know for sure what's going on over the phone or that you aren't bidding against the hat stand at the back.
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chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
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August 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by chevyav53 on Oct 3, 2017 15:28:32 GMT 1, That is why you always set yourself a price you are willing to pay and if it goes above that exit gracefully..... if you do that no worries
That is why you always set yourself a price you are willing to pay and if it goes above that exit gracefully..... if you do that no worries
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aml
New Member
Posts โข 258
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August 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by aml on Oct 3, 2017 15:46:12 GMT 1, That is why you always set yourself a price you are willing to pay and if it goes above that exit gracefully..... if you do that no worries
That is why you always set yourself a price you are willing to pay and if it goes above that exit gracefully..... if you do that no worries This. 100%. |
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helium
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Posts โข 351
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September 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by helium on Oct 3, 2017 15:56:05 GMT 1, eBay art auctions suck
eBay sucks
One is on eBay for ยฃ1000000000
mine must be worth the same
eBay art auctions suck
eBay sucks
One is on eBay for ยฃ1000000000
mine must be worth the same
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helium
New Member
Posts โข 351
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September 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by helium on Oct 3, 2017 15:57:16 GMT 1, Not just an ebay problem. Even if you're actually in the auction room, you can't ever know for sure what's going on over the phone or that you aren't bidding against the hat stand at the back.
I'm sure I was bidding against a wild boar head once
Not just an ebay problem. Even if you're actually in the auction room, you can't ever know for sure what's going on over the phone or that you aren't bidding against the hat stand at the back. I'm sure I was bidding against a wild boar head once |
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soupy
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,108
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April 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by soupy on Oct 3, 2017 16:17:43 GMT 1, eBay art auctions suck eBay sucks
but it is not a great place to buy recent releases.
eBay art auctions suck eBay sucks ebay can be a good place to find older prints that may not have attracted a lot of attention ... sometimes there can be some good deals or listings that fly under the radar due to a general title or misspelling. i've scored a number of prints for under original cost. but it is not a great place to buy recent releases. |
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chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
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August 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by chevyav53 on Oct 3, 2017 17:04:09 GMT 1, agree with soupy I have scored some great deals on ebay and found hard to find items. It does suck if you are truly interested in a piece of art or product that is snagged up by flippers who use ebay as an easy store front but all and all a good system.
agree with soupy I have scored some great deals on ebay and found hard to find items. It does suck if you are truly interested in a piece of art or product that is snagged up by flippers who use ebay as an easy store front but all and all a good system. |
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tran16
New Member
Posts โข 567
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December 2016
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eBay shill pricing, by tran16 on Oct 3, 2017 17:12:20 GMT 1, eBay art auctions suck eBay sucksย ebay can be a good place to find older prints that may not have attracted a lot of attention ... sometimes there can be some good deals or listings that fly under the radar due to a general title or misspelling.ย i've scored a number of prints for under original cost. but it is not a great place to buy recent releases.
Any common misspellings?
eBay art auctions suck eBay sucksย ebay can be a good place to find older prints that may not have attracted a lot of attention ... sometimes there can be some good deals or listings that fly under the radar due to a general title or misspelling.ย i've scored a number of prints for under original cost. but it is not a great place to buy recent releases. Any common misspellings? |
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eBay shill pricing, by Happy Shopper on Oct 3, 2017 17:15:17 GMT 1, I think shill bidding and fake sales are on the increase on eBay because the overall demand is waining.
Flippers need to be more tricksy to get the profits they're used to getting.
Even as an occasional seller you can see there's little demand for last months "must have" edition... whatever that may be!
I think shill bidding and fake sales are on the increase on eBay because the overall demand is waining.
Flippers need to be more tricksy to get the profits they're used to getting.
Even as an occasional seller you can see there's little demand for last months "must have" edition... whatever that may be!
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soupy
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,108
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April 2014
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eBay shill pricing, by soupy on Oct 3, 2017 17:17:51 GMT 1, yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints. more often than not... it is keywords being omitted. titles being left out. first or last name of artist. stuff like that.
i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy. 
yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints. more often than not... it is keywords being omitted. titles being left out. first or last name of artist. stuff like that. i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy. |
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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eBay shill pricing, by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 17:18:21 GMT 1, yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints. more often than not... it is keywords being omitted. titles being left out. first or last name of artist. stuff like that. i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy.
yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints. more often than not... it is keywords being omitted. titles being left out. first or last name of artist. stuff like that. i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy. Bansky |
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chainsaw
New Member
Posts โข 130
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June 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by chainsaw on Oct 3, 2017 17:19:47 GMT 1, Just set a auction sniper bid for the last 4 or 5 seconds for the max price you are willing to pay.
Then walk away if you get it.. great... if not its more than you were willing to pay anyway.
Just set a auction sniper bid for the last 4 or 5 seconds for the max price you are willing to pay.
Then walk away if you get it.. great... if not its more than you were willing to pay anyway.
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tran16
New Member
Posts โข 567
Likes โข 504
December 2016
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eBay shill pricing, by tran16 on Oct 3, 2017 17:53:34 GMT 1, yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints.ย more often than not... it is keywords being omitted.ย titles being left out.ย first or last name of artist.ย stuff like that. i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy.ย ย Bansky
David Hackney
yes.... there are some common misspellings of artists and/or prints.ย more often than not... it is keywords being omitted.ย titles being left out.ย first or last name of artist.ย stuff like that. i am surely not going to disclose all of them as it would only increase eyes / competition on listings i may want to buy.ย ย Bansky David Hackney |
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jbelleit
New Member
Posts โข 764
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by jbelleit on Oct 3, 2017 18:56:31 GMT 1, I got a Faile "Worth Something (gold)" at original cost as it went under the radar (I think) on eBay recently...but in general I don't find what I want at a reasonable price.
But watching these 4 MW Butterfly prints owned by the same dealer all make the same price jumps pretty consistently through the day and for the bidders names to be COMPLETELY hidden...just smells fishy.
Would love to know if anyone on this forum was an actual bidder/winner.
I got a Faile "Worth Something (gold)" at original cost as it went under the radar (I think) on eBay recently...but in general I don't find what I want at a reasonable price.
But watching these 4 MW Butterfly prints owned by the same dealer all make the same price jumps pretty consistently through the day and for the bidders names to be COMPLETELY hidden...just smells fishy.
Would love to know if anyone on this forum was an actual bidder/winner.
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helium
New Member
Posts โข 351
Likes โข 348
September 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by helium on Oct 3, 2017 19:18:27 GMT 1, Agree that hard to find old stuff can be found and brought what I have a problem with is eBay being used a way of valuing work people do one search find a piece at 3k over value then that must be what it's worth even though the sold filter says different ...but hey ho each to there own
Agree that hard to find old stuff can be found and brought what I have a problem with is eBay being used a way of valuing work people do one search find a piece at 3k over value then that must be what it's worth even though the sold filter says different ...but hey ho each to there own
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treweman
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Posts โข 583
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January 2011
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eBay shill pricing, by treweman on Oct 3, 2017 21:44:50 GMT 1, Whether one buys on the many art forums, eBay, or at auction, due diligence is required. I have acquired a half dozen or so works of art listed on eBay, and have been thrilled with the results. But it involved work - a lot of it - and a willingness to walk away if things didn't feel right. I ask many questions, and usually insist on speaking with the seller by phone. In one case, I called an artist to confirm that she had actually painted the piece I wanted to buy (she was not happy to discover the piece was being sold on eBay for a fraction of the Gallery price, but it was one of hers). And when possible, I try to pick up the art in person. I like eBay, but I don't blindly trust it, nor do I assume that the buyer's protection makes it any less risky. I might add that I've bought 5 cars/trucks online (2 from eBay motors), and all of those deals had happy endings as well. But I'm always prepared for the worst ...
Whether one buys on the many art forums, eBay, or at auction, due diligence is required. I have acquired a half dozen or so works of art listed on eBay, and have been thrilled with the results. But it involved work - a lot of it - and a willingness to walk away if things didn't feel right. I ask many questions, and usually insist on speaking with the seller by phone. In one case, I called an artist to confirm that she had actually painted the piece I wanted to buy (she was not happy to discover the piece was being sold on eBay for a fraction of the Gallery price, but it was one of hers). And when possible, I try to pick up the art in person. I like eBay, but I don't blindly trust it, nor do I assume that the buyer's protection makes it any less risky. I might add that I've bought 5 cars/trucks online (2 from eBay motors), and all of those deals had happy endings as well. But I'm always prepared for the worst ...
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jbelleit
New Member
Posts โข 764
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April 2017
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eBay shill pricing, by jbelleit on Oct 6, 2017 14:13:19 GMT 1, What's really funny is that the seller (thatprintguy) I felt was using shill pricing has ANOTHER butterfly (the orange one) up for sale on ebay too. That is after he already "sold" one of each color. So either he was able to get five prints on the opening night, he has a deal with RexRomae, or he really didn't sell the first orange butterfly but rather shilled the price up and is now really trying to sell the real ones.
Full Disclosure: I have purchased one of the green butterflies from RR when the spares went for sale on their website. I have no intention of selling but rather I will frame and put on my wall.
What's really funny is that the seller (thatprintguy) I felt was using shill pricing has ANOTHER butterfly (the orange one) up for sale on ebay too. That is after he already "sold" one of each color. So either he was able to get five prints on the opening night, he has a deal with RexRomae, or he really didn't sell the first orange butterfly but rather shilled the price up and is now really trying to sell the real ones.
Full Disclosure: I have purchased one of the green butterflies from RR when the spares went for sale on their website. I have no intention of selling but rather I will frame and put on my wall.
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