thwaites
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 618
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October 2006
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by thwaites on Jan 2, 2007 1:00:31 GMT 1, yeah sorry i mean itv! its talking about his recent show now where the napalm was displayed
yeah sorry i mean itv! its talking about his recent show now where the napalm was displayed
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by ร
gent รacardi on Jan 2, 2007 1:56:53 GMT 1, heh! i will definately let you know. so.. have you got a rather large mansion over there in LA? if it does go down the pooper will i get to live a life of luxury?
Umm... no large mansion... but I have a large jacuzzi tub and a friend whom I can bribe to feed you grapes while he gives you massages, does that count as luxury?
*** Grapes sold separately. "Large" jacuzzi tub is defined as no larger than 5 feet long and 2 feet wide. Massages will be administered by mechanical thingamajigs acquired from The Sharper Image. Batteries for mechanical thingamajigs not included. Offers valid while stocks last.
heh! i will definately let you know. so.. have you got a rather large mansion over there in LA? if it does go down the pooper will i get to live a life of luxury? Umm... no large mansion... but I have a large jacuzzi tub and a friend whom I can bribe to feed you grapes while he gives you massages, does that count as luxury? *** Grapes sold separately. "Large" jacuzzi tub is defined as no larger than 5 feet long and 2 feet wide. Massages will be administered by mechanical thingamajigs acquired from The Sharper Image. Batteries for mechanical thingamajigs not included. Offers valid while stocks last.
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frank11
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,190
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September 2006
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by frank11 on Jan 2, 2007 18:29:15 GMT 1, Well as to the question of whether graffiti is vandalism or art, I say it's both. Art is generally defined as "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance", and since "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", therein lies the arbitrary line between its status as vandalism or art. It's art when it's aesthetically pleasing and desirable, and it's vandalism when it's not so visually pleasing, lacks any meanings/messages whatsoever, and is generally unwanted. That being said, any given piece can be interpreted as vandalism or art according to the viewer's tastes and/or preferences. It's completely subjective. While many of us will probably say that tagging is a nuisance and not art, I'm sure there will be people who will think otherwise. Context is very important too, a Banksy piece in some snooty place like Beverly Hills will probably never be considered as "art" (assuming, for the sake of argument, that nobody in that area knows who he is and couldn't care less). But in a young/hip place such as Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, it'll definitely be a welcome contribution, and will likely be perceived as art by the people who frequent that area. Personally, I think that if you're a graffiti writer but don't have the skills/creativity/good ideas, then you don't deserve to use public spaces as your canvas if you're trying to pass off as an artist. A big part of graffiti is its audience; if nobody's ever going to see what you write, then you probably won't write it unless you're plain bored and/or drunk. Public space is a public forum, so if you want to make use of it to express something, you'd better have something good to present. Otherwise, you're just wasting peoples' time and being a public nuisance, and you'll be regarded as a vandal and not an artist. It's like street busking - one could ask if it's art or noise pollution, and the distinction will lie in how good the busker is, and also if he/she is at the right place and the right time to hit his/her target audience. So IMO, street art contributes to a wisely chosen strata of society if it's good (art), and it's a nuisance if it's totally pointless and aesthetically unpleasant (vandalism).
Well as to the question of whether graffiti is vandalism or art, I say it's both. Art is generally defined as "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance", and since "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", therein lies the arbitrary line between its status as vandalism or art. It's art when it's aesthetically pleasing and desirable, and it's vandalism when it's not so visually pleasing, lacks any meanings/messages whatsoever, and is generally unwanted. That being said, any given piece can be interpreted as vandalism or art according to the viewer's tastes and/or preferences. It's completely subjective. While many of us will probably say that tagging is a nuisance and not art, I'm sure there will be people who will think otherwise. Context is very important too, a Banksy piece in some snooty place like Beverly Hills will probably never be considered as "art" (assuming, for the sake of argument, that nobody in that area knows who he is and couldn't care less). But in a young/hip place such as Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles, it'll definitely be a welcome contribution, and will likely be perceived as art by the people who frequent that area. Personally, I think that if you're a graffiti writer but don't have the skills/creativity/good ideas, then you don't deserve to use public spaces as your canvas if you're trying to pass off as an artist. A big part of graffiti is its audience; if nobody's ever going to see what you write, then you probably won't write it unless you're plain bored and/or drunk. Public space is a public forum, so if you want to make use of it to express something, you'd better have something good to present. Otherwise, you're just wasting peoples' time and being a public nuisance, and you'll be regarded as a vandal and not an artist. It's like street busking - one could ask if it's art or noise pollution, and the distinction will lie in how good the busker is, and also if he/she is at the right place and the right time to hit his/her target audience. So IMO, street art contributes to a wisely chosen strata of society if it's good (art), and it's a nuisance if it's totally pointless and aesthetically unpleasant (vandalism).
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frank11
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,190
๐๐ป 2
September 2006
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by frank11 on Jan 2, 2007 18:30:05 GMT 1, Perfectly put Mr bacardi!!
Perfectly put Mr bacardi!!
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by ร
gent รacardi on Jan 2, 2007 22:19:15 GMT 1, Interesting interpretation, but your definition of 'good' (art) & 'aesthetically unpleasant' is somewhat flawed.. it would leave an awfully large gap in art history. Most of interest generally challenges the 'status quo', throughout the ages new forms of expression have caused outrage and horror, the shock of the new. Individual tags can be challenging, but taken collectively as a whole, it's quite an amazing movement and one that led directly to graffiti. The sketch to a painting perhaps. I guess there are different types of 'tagging', kids with pens writing on anything and everything without any cultural reference points to graf, and those others who see it as a precursor and legitimate type of graffiti. Both equally important and intersting from a socio-cultural perspective. But it's not art, much closer to a form of urban caligraphy. Art is what artists do, for want of a better word.
Well actually, I never defined 'good' & 'aesthetically unpleasant' in absolute terms... it really depends entirely on the audience/viewers in that respect. Given the diversity of human interests, there can never be something that is universally 'good' or 'aesthetically unpleasant'... for instance, my grandpa used to say that he thought Mona Lisa was a fat ugly chick and never got why she's become so famous (he was never known to mince words! Haha ;D)! My point was, if Da Vinci was a graffiti artist and had he tagged the Mona Lisa on the side of my grandpa's house, it would definitely have been viewed as vandalism instead of the fantastic piece of artwork that we've marveled at for so many centuries (tragic I know, but how many Banksys that we've admired have been buffed for the same reason?). Whether graffiti is art or vandalism is entirely dependent on the audience and the context, which in itself can be highly variable. Best we can do is come formulate a fluid and highly conditional and general definition.
As for urban calligraphy, I think it would classify as an artform, just as calligraphy in general is... in my opinion, at least. At the end of the day however, the term 'art' itself is so open to different interpretations (it has 9 definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary!) that it is perhaps impossible for it to be a definite concept, and will probably be the subject of endless debate. Intriguing, though!
Interesting interpretation, but your definition of 'good' (art) & 'aesthetically unpleasant' is somewhat flawed.. it would leave an awfully large gap in art history. Most of interest generally challenges the 'status quo', throughout the ages new forms of expression have caused outrage and horror, the shock of the new. Individual tags can be challenging, but taken collectively as a whole, it's quite an amazing movement and one that led directly to graffiti. The sketch to a painting perhaps. I guess there are different types of 'tagging', kids with pens writing on anything and everything without any cultural reference points to graf, and those others who see it as a precursor and legitimate type of graffiti. Both equally important and intersting from a socio-cultural perspective. But it's not art, much closer to a form of urban caligraphy. Art is what artists do, for want of a better word. Well actually, I never defined 'good' & 'aesthetically unpleasant' in absolute terms... it really depends entirely on the audience/viewers in that respect. Given the diversity of human interests, there can never be something that is universally 'good' or 'aesthetically unpleasant'... for instance, my grandpa used to say that he thought Mona Lisa was a fat ugly chick and never got why she's become so famous (he was never known to mince words! Haha ;D)! My point was, if Da Vinci was a graffiti artist and had he tagged the Mona Lisa on the side of my grandpa's house, it would definitely have been viewed as vandalism instead of the fantastic piece of artwork that we've marveled at for so many centuries (tragic I know, but how many Banksys that we've admired have been buffed for the same reason?). Whether graffiti is art or vandalism is entirely dependent on the audience and the context, which in itself can be highly variable. Best we can do is come formulate a fluid and highly conditional and general definition. As for urban calligraphy, I think it would classify as an artform, just as calligraphy in general is... in my opinion, at least. At the end of the day however, the term 'art' itself is so open to different interpretations (it has 9 definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary!) that it is perhaps impossible for it to be a definite concept, and will probably be the subject of endless debate. Intriguing, though!
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LoveRat
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 467
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January 2006
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by LoveRat on Jan 2, 2007 23:07:30 GMT 1, Interesting interpretation, but your definition of 'good' (art) & 'aesthetically unpleasant' is somewhat flawed.. it would leave an awfully large gap in art history. Most of interest generally challenges the 'status quo', throughout the ages new forms of expression have caused outrage and horror, the shock of the new. Individual tags can be challenging, but taken collectively as a whole, it's quite an amazing movement and one that led directly to graffiti. The sketch to a painting perhaps. I guess there are different types of 'tagging', kids with pens writing on anything and everything without any cultural reference points to graf, and those others who see it as a precursor and legitimate type of graffiti. Both equally important and intersting from a socio-cultural perspective. But it's not art, much closer to a form of urban caligraphy. Art is what artists do, for want of a better word. Well actually, I never defined 'good' & 'aesthetically unpleasant' in absolute terms... it really depends entirely on the audience/viewers in that respect. Given the diversity of human interests, there can never be something that is universally 'good' or 'aesthetically unpleasant'... for instance, my grandpa used to say that he thought Mona Lisa was a fat ugly chick and never got why she's become so famous (he was never known to mince words! Haha ;D)! My point was, if Da Vinci was a graffiti artist and had he tagged the Mona Lisa on the side of my grandpa's house, it would definitely have been viewed as vandalism instead of the fantastic piece of artwork that we've marveled at for so many centuries (tragic I know, but how many Banksys that we've admired have been buffed for the same reason?). Whether graffiti is art or vandalism is entirely dependent on the audience and the context, which in itself can be highly variable. Best we can do is come formulate a fluid and highly conditional and general definition. As for urban calligraphy, I think it would classify as an artform, just as calligraphy in general is... in my opinion, at least. At the end of the day however, the term 'art' itself is so open to different interpretations (it has 9 definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary!) that it is perhaps impossible for it to be a definite concept, and will probably be the subject of endless debate. Intriguing, though!
Sometimes its just a question of permission,for instance, if your Grandad gave Da Vinci permission to paint the side of his house ,it would no longer be vandalism , would it?
Interesting interpretation, but your definition of 'good' (art) & 'aesthetically unpleasant' is somewhat flawed.. it would leave an awfully large gap in art history. Most of interest generally challenges the 'status quo', throughout the ages new forms of expression have caused outrage and horror, the shock of the new. Individual tags can be challenging, but taken collectively as a whole, it's quite an amazing movement and one that led directly to graffiti. The sketch to a painting perhaps. I guess there are different types of 'tagging', kids with pens writing on anything and everything without any cultural reference points to graf, and those others who see it as a precursor and legitimate type of graffiti. Both equally important and intersting from a socio-cultural perspective. But it's not art, much closer to a form of urban caligraphy. Art is what artists do, for want of a better word. Well actually, I never defined 'good' & 'aesthetically unpleasant' in absolute terms... it really depends entirely on the audience/viewers in that respect. Given the diversity of human interests, there can never be something that is universally 'good' or 'aesthetically unpleasant'... for instance, my grandpa used to say that he thought Mona Lisa was a fat ugly chick and never got why she's become so famous (he was never known to mince words! Haha ;D)! My point was, if Da Vinci was a graffiti artist and had he tagged the Mona Lisa on the side of my grandpa's house, it would definitely have been viewed as vandalism instead of the fantastic piece of artwork that we've marveled at for so many centuries (tragic I know, but how many Banksys that we've admired have been buffed for the same reason?). Whether graffiti is art or vandalism is entirely dependent on the audience and the context, which in itself can be highly variable. Best we can do is come formulate a fluid and highly conditional and general definition. As for urban calligraphy, I think it would classify as an artform, just as calligraphy in general is... in my opinion, at least. At the end of the day however, the term 'art' itself is so open to different interpretations (it has 9 definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary!) that it is perhaps impossible for it to be a definite concept, and will probably be the subject of endless debate. Intriguing, though! Sometimes its just a question of permission,for instance, if your Grandad gave Da Vinci permission to paint the side of his house ,it would no longer be vandalism , would it?
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by numusic on Jan 2, 2007 23:58:01 GMT 1, yeah, i get a bit sidetracked when the word 'art' is used, I presume it to mean art as in "fine art".. though that's such a loaded word. "Visual Arts" is a more broader term, I guess, and does include graffiti. Though I'm actually looking at developing a theory that "Fine art" is actually a sub genre of graffiti and not the other way around. "Contemporary Visual art".. ohhhh. I give up. But I did study "Fine art"... or something !!!!.. well kind of.. well, actually.. lazed around smoking weed at the taxpayers expense in London for a few years and did a show at the end
yeah, i get a bit sidetracked when the word 'art' is used, I presume it to mean art as in "fine art".. though that's such a loaded word. "Visual Arts" is a more broader term, I guess, and does include graffiti. Though I'm actually looking at developing a theory that "Fine art" is actually a sub genre of graffiti and not the other way around. "Contemporary Visual art".. ohhhh. I give up. But I did study "Fine art"... or something !!!!.. well kind of.. well, actually.. lazed around smoking weed at the taxpayers expense in London for a few years and did a show at the end
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by numusic on Jan 3, 2007 0:08:15 GMT 1, Sometimes its just a question of permission,for instance, if your Grandad gave Da Vinci permission to paint the side of his house ,it would no longer be vandalism , would it?
Yep, agree.. and actually, all of the nuart pieces we did illegally in Norway have been left as is. Published in newspapers, discussed on local TV and writen about by art critics. I think movements in street/urban art are not necessarily related to Graffiti any longer. Post Graffiti owes as much to contemporary art these days.. it's been two way traffic for a while. One look at Wooster shows just how broad and diverse it is these days.
Sometimes its just a question of permission,for instance, if your Grandad gave Da Vinci permission to paint the side of his house ,it would no longer be vandalism , would it?
Yep, agree.. and actually, all of the nuart pieces we did illegally in Norway have been left as is. Published in newspapers, discussed on local TV and writen about by art critics. I think movements in street/urban art are not necessarily related to Graffiti any longer. Post Graffiti owes as much to contemporary art these days.. it's been two way traffic for a while. One look at Wooster shows just how broad and diverse it is these days.
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LoveRat
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 467
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January 2006
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by LoveRat on Jan 3, 2007 1:26:08 GMT 1, Good to hear all the pieces from Nuart are still up . Is this anything to do with you , Nu? www.stavangergraffiti.com/
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Graffiti - is it ART?, by numusic on Jan 3, 2007 12:11:21 GMT 1, I take the 5th on the grounds that it may incriminate me..
I take the 5th on the grounds that it may incriminate me..
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