hellfo
Junior Member
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December 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by hellfo on Feb 17, 2018 21:03:25 GMT 1, I have made a quick search about the thread, but I haven't found anything.
I understand the meaning of the word "flipper" and why a similar behavior is not tolerated, but what about the several art galleries reselling art?
For example, buying the last obey on release, and then putting it for sale in the gallery, isn't a flipper behavior?
How does it work?
Anyone have link to a similar discussion?
I have made a quick search about the thread, but I haven't found anything.
I understand the meaning of the word "flipper" and why a similar behavior is not tolerated, but what about the several art galleries reselling art?
For example, buying the last obey on release, and then putting it for sale in the gallery, isn't a flipper behavior?
How does it work?
Anyone have link to a similar discussion?
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clueless
New Member
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October 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by clueless on Feb 17, 2018 21:09:19 GMT 1, It definitely is the textbook behavior of a flipper.
It definitely is the textbook behavior of a flipper.
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mushi
New Member
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November 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by mushi on Feb 17, 2018 21:24:19 GMT 1, Galleries have a business to run, taxes, employees, etc... They plan exhibitions, work with artists, are involve in the art world. In any way they could be called flippers.
Galleries have a business to run, taxes, employees, etc... They plan exhibitions, work with artists, are involve in the art world. In any way they could be called flippers.
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Jaylove
Junior Member
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November 2016
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Jaylove on Feb 17, 2018 22:01:14 GMT 1, Galleries are flippers. The thing though is galleries are actual companies. As such they have costs (rent, employee salaries,etc) and many actually showcase artists. Itโs a legit operation so it is expected that there will be a premium on the pricing.
Iโd put a gallery above Joe blow flipper in sing bots and creating bubbles flooding the market with deceptive tactics. I guess they are the same but I respect the gallery more.
Galleries are flippers. The thing though is galleries are actual companies. As such they have costs (rent, employee salaries,etc) and many actually showcase artists. Itโs a legit operation so it is expected that there will be a premium on the pricing.
Iโd put a gallery above Joe blow flipper in sing bots and creating bubbles flooding the market with deceptive tactics. I guess they are the same but I respect the gallery more.
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hungry
New Member
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October 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by hungry on Feb 17, 2018 22:33:29 GMT 1, As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there.
As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there.
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chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
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August 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by chevyav53 on Feb 17, 2018 23:18:14 GMT 1, As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there.
As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there. ^^^^^This, yes they flip but they help to get artist names out there in many cases. There are shady ones and good ones. We need to support the good ones and not the ones that grab a piece then flip it for 10X. |
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,462
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March 2014
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by WOOF on Feb 17, 2018 23:42:43 GMT 1, There's a difference between galleries and resellers with a shop.
There's a difference between galleries and resellers with a shop.
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Mirus Gallery
Art Gallery
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Posts โข 193
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March 2014
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Mirus Gallery on Feb 18, 2018 1:54:06 GMT 1, Most galleries that further an artists career and put together shows sell on the primary market and do not flip or resell works. There are galleries that sell secondary market art which is different than primary market galleries. Many galleries sell secondary work and have no connection to the artist.
Most galleries that further an artists career and put together shows sell on the primary market and do not flip or resell works. There are galleries that sell secondary market art which is different than primary market galleries. Many galleries sell secondary work and have no connection to the artist.
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nighthawk
Junior Member
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February 2013
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by nighthawk on Feb 18, 2018 2:54:55 GMT 1, Most galleries (99%) don't flip or resell...
Most galleries (99%) don't flip or resell...
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Winks
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,796
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April 2016
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Winks on Feb 18, 2018 7:28:45 GMT 1, There are โgalleriesโ out there who donโt promote artists, have shows etc.
They just resell secondary art. Iโve seen new releases bought up by them and marked up immediately.
They might have overheads but so do flippers; eBay and PayPal fees etc
There are โgalleriesโ out there who donโt promote artists, have shows etc.
They just resell secondary art. Iโve seen new releases bought up by them and marked up immediately.
They might have overheads but so do flippers; eBay and PayPal fees etc
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 7:34:59 GMT 1, There are โgalleriesโ out there who donโt promote artists, have shows etc. They just resell secondary art. Iโve seen new releases bought up by them and marked up immediately. They might have overheads but so do flippers; eBay and PayPal fees etc
Agreed, I often get sponsored posts by galleries on Instagram offering prints that were just released, one of the newest Pose HPM's of "gent" comes to mind. That one stings a little extra because you needed a pre-sale PW for the HPM's...
There are โgalleriesโ out there who donโt promote artists, have shows etc. They just resell secondary art. Iโve seen new releases bought up by them and marked up immediately. They might have overheads but so do flippers; eBay and PayPal fees etc Agreed, I often get sponsored posts by galleries on Instagram offering prints that were just released, one of the newest Pose HPM's of "gent" comes to mind. That one stings a little extra because you needed a pre-sale PW for the HPM's... |
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Daniel Silk on Feb 18, 2018 9:52:01 GMT 1, Another thing to think about is do the Artist actually want a few selected high profile galleries to flip their work? Do Artists deliberately sell a few from editions to the Galleries knowing and wanting them to sell them straight away for vastly more than the original price? That type of thing helps the values of the Artists work for future releases, increases demand, and being associated with a few good galleries is a plus for the Artists profile.
Another thing to think about is do the Artist actually want a few selected high profile galleries to flip their work? Do Artists deliberately sell a few from editions to the Galleries knowing and wanting them to sell them straight away for vastly more than the original price? That type of thing helps the values of the Artists work for future releases, increases demand, and being associated with a few good galleries is a plus for the Artists profile.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 10:19:33 GMT 1, Most galleries (99%) don't flip or resell...
Depends what constitutes a gallery, its an easy label to attain, internet connection and website. There are ones who purely flip/resell and have little concern for any artists career, solely driven by personal gain. There are of course many who look after their artists and spend time and money nurturing their career and building strong longterm relationships. The greater issue lies in whether a reseller, gallery etc is mindfull of the artist when selling, not simply selling by any method purely for short term personal gain regardless of how it effects the artist longterm, after all if it wasnt for the artist there would be no profit. Likewise for reputable galleries, they help build the value of artists work, with many artists theyre careers would'nt reach the heights many do without that support. There are anomolies of course.
Most galleries (99%) don't flip or resell... Depends what constitutes a gallery, its an easy label to attain, internet connection and website. There are ones who purely flip/resell and have little concern for any artists career, solely driven by personal gain. There are of course many who look after their artists and spend time and money nurturing their career and building strong longterm relationships. The greater issue lies in whether a reseller, gallery etc is mindfull of the artist when selling, not simply selling by any method purely for short term personal gain regardless of how it effects the artist longterm, after all if it wasnt for the artist there would be no profit. Likewise for reputable galleries, they help build the value of artists work, with many artists theyre careers would'nt reach the heights many do without that support. There are anomolies of course. |
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Dahmer
Junior Member
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October 2016
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Dahmer on Feb 18, 2018 10:38:48 GMT 1, im pretty sure, that at a recent phillips auction that a couple of pieces, notably julian opie and harland miller pieces ended up for sale 3 days later at a couple of london galleries
im pretty sure, that at a recent phillips auction that a couple of pieces, notably julian opie and harland miller pieces ended up for sale 3 days later at a couple of london galleries
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Guy Denning
Artist
New Member
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July 2007
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Guy Denning on Feb 18, 2018 10:46:52 GMT 1, I'm not saying anything. I've pissed off enough gallerists in the past. Let's just say there are good and bad in all fields of endeavour.
I'm not saying anything. I've pissed off enough gallerists in the past. Let's just say there are good and bad in all fields of endeavour.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 11:13:06 GMT 1, im pretty sure, that at a recent phillips auction that a couple of pieces, notably julian opie and harland miller pieces ended up for sale 3 days later at a couple of london galleries
Thats fairly normal, galleries would be some of the top clients for auctions both with buying and selling.
im pretty sure, that at a recent phillips auction that a couple of pieces, notably julian opie and harland miller pieces ended up for sale 3 days later at a couple of london galleries Thats fairly normal, galleries would be some of the top clients for auctions both with buying and selling. |
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mose
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Posts โข 410
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by mose on Feb 18, 2018 15:03:58 GMT 1, To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers.
The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They generally don't represent an artist, but will gladly buy low and sell high on their work. They live/die based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work.
Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/die based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people.
Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers. That's fine, as long as you understand what you are dealing with before conducting business with them.
To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers.
The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They generally don't represent an artist, but will gladly buy low and sell high on their work. They live/die based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work.
Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/die based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people.
Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers. That's fine, as long as you understand what you are dealing with before conducting business with them.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 15:16:09 GMT 1, To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers. The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They don't represent Shepard Fairey, but will gladly buy low and sell high on his works. They live/day based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work. Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/day based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people. Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers.
Many galleries who have a roster of artists also buy/sell other artists they dont represent but i agree theres many so called galleries.
To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers. The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They don't represent Shepard Fairey, but will gladly buy low and sell high on his works. They live/day based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work. Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/day based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people. Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers. Many galleries who have a roster of artists also buy/sell other artists they dont represent but i agree theres many so called galleries. |
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mose
New Member
Posts โข 410
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by mose on Feb 18, 2018 15:28:16 GMT 1, To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers. The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They don't represent Shepard Fairey, but will gladly buy low and sell high on his works. They live/day based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work. Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/day based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people. Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers. Many galleries who have a roster of artists also buy/sell other artists they dont represent but i agree theres many so called galleries, the internets changed things where practically anyone can set up a website, upload images and portray what they want.
Oh, definitely agree. Secondary sales are what allows many galleries to prosper in these tough times, when young art is a hard sell and there has been a major flight to established names. But, I'd argue the difference is that, for the majors in this category, it is their primary program which attracts secondary sellers. It's what keeps their brand name out there.
Then, there are exceptions. Someone like Mnuchin is the top of the top-tier of selling secondary market contemporary masterpieces. He is most definitely a gallerist, with a fascinating, museum-worthy program and fantastic publications. But, his toast points-and-caviar(no bread-and-butter at that level) is most definitely secondary sales.
But, man, if I don't admire the likes of NYC's Essex Street, JTT, 11R, Invisible-Exports, etc. who are small-mid galleries continually struggling to show cutting-edge contemporary.
To me, the difference is between galleries and dealers. The behavior you are talking about is the hallmark of a dealer. Buying art, selling it. They don't represent Shepard Fairey, but will gladly buy low and sell high on his works. They live/day based on the products they sell. Always fast to send you a pdf of available work. Galleries, and gallerists, have a program. They have a roster of artists they work with, plan exhibitions with, negotiate with institutions on behalf of, sometimes front production costs, develop periodicals, etc. They live/day based on the artists they develop. Slow to sell to new people. Many so-called 'galleries' are just dealers. Many galleries who have a roster of artists also buy/sell other artists they dont represent but i agree theres many so called galleries, the internets changed things where practically anyone can set up a website, upload images and portray what they want. Oh, definitely agree. Secondary sales are what allows many galleries to prosper in these tough times, when young art is a hard sell and there has been a major flight to established names. But, I'd argue the difference is that, for the majors in this category, it is their primary program which attracts secondary sellers. It's what keeps their brand name out there. Then, there are exceptions. Someone like Mnuchin is the top of the top-tier of selling secondary market contemporary masterpieces. He is most definitely a gallerist, with a fascinating, museum-worthy program and fantastic publications. But, his toast points-and-caviar(no bread-and-butter at that level) is most definitely secondary sales. But, man, if I don't admire the likes of NYC's Essex Street, JTT, 11R, Invisible-Exports, etc. who are small-mid galleries continually struggling to show cutting-edge contemporary. |
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brycepen
New Member
Posts โข 477
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by brycepen on Feb 18, 2018 19:04:43 GMT 1, As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there.
Do you honestly believe this? I am skeptical. Incredibly skeptical.
Or maybe i need a nap
As a couple people mentioned, technically yes galleries are flippers from a textbook definition. However, the key thing to note is that galleries actually put back time and money from profits into developing and promoting artists through showcases and producing new prints. Without a lot of the galleries today, there wouldn't be as many quality prints and original artworks out there. Do you honestly believe this? I am skeptical. Incredibly skeptical. Or maybe i need a nap |
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tran16
New Member
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December 2016
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by tran16 on Feb 18, 2018 20:27:28 GMT 1, A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on?
A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:41:51 GMT 1, A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on?
As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem.
A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on? As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem. |
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brycepen
New Member
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by brycepen on Feb 18, 2018 22:12:51 GMT 1, A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on? As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem.
Hmmm
A gallery local to me has sold on an Ai Wei Wei hand sculpture. As this was essentially sold as a charity piece does it sound right for a gallery to sell it on? As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem. Hmmm |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 22:21:35 GMT 1, As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem. Hmmm
?
Is there an issue if the piece is sold for charity and the charity received the money?
I dont see it, maybe im missing it?
As long as funds from the sale went to the charity i dont see a problem. Hmmm ? Is there an issue if the piece is sold for charity and the charity received the money? I dont see it, maybe im missing it? |
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tran16
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December 2016
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by tran16 on Feb 18, 2018 22:33:19 GMT 1, The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity
The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity
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brycepen
New Member
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by brycepen on Feb 18, 2018 22:36:14 GMT 1, Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money.
Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 22:38:14 GMT 1, The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity
I dont understand, i thought a piece had been sold and money was given to charity, at some point after the same piece was resold in a gallery, that was my perception but as said i could well be missing something.
The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity I dont understand, i thought a piece had been sold and money was given to charity, at some point after the same piece was resold in a gallery, that was my perception but as said i could well be missing something. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 22:43:12 GMT 1, Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money.
Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things.
Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money. Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things. |
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brycepen
New Member
Posts โข 477
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May 2017
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by brycepen on Feb 18, 2018 22:48:57 GMT 1, Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money. Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things.
I mean honestly, what IS the point?
Well if you want to give your money to a gallery that jacks up the price and sells you on something under the premise that itโs a โcharityโ, you should at least be able to understand what the money is for and have some way to confirm the charity received the money. Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things. I mean honestly, what IS the point? |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Are the art galleries "flippers"? , by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 23:08:52 GMT 1, Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things. I mean honestly, what IS the point?
My confusion was a previous post was "The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity" whereas you said it was sold under the premise of a charity
Well yeah if it was being resold under the premise of charity a specified amount of money should go to the charity on this sale aswell. Ill step out now, i could be confusing things. I mean honestly, what IS the point? My confusion was a previous post was "The gallery listing makes no reference to the charity" whereas you said it was sold under the premise of a charity |
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