|
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by josephwillis123 on Aug 8, 2018 21:25:48 GMT 1, Hey all,
I am not sure the best place to post this question for advice, but this area seems the most fitting.
Long story short, I bought a older Will Cotton canvas at auction last month. I am a HUGE Will Cotton fan (but not blessed with an huge wallet) and to have canvas of his is amazing. I get that this older piece is very different from his current in demand stuff, but I'm still beyond stoked to have bought it!
Anyways, I paid a private company to pack and ship the painting. Shipping was nearly equal to the price of the painting. I paid the additional insurance fees as well. The painting arrived but was damaged in transit. (damaged stretcher bar, three tares the to canvas 1" to 3".) The damage was to the side, where there was only one layer of cardboard protection. I will attache photos of the painting and damage for reference. I immediately got in contact with the shipping company and they asked that I document everything and send it over to them. This was done and I was asked to get an estimate for repairs. I contacted a local art framing/gallery/repair shop and got the estimate. The estimate in my opinion did seem quite high. For reference, it was higher than the paid auction price (lower than the auction estimate though). The quote was denied by the shipper and I was asked to get a second estimate which I was happy to do.
I then got an email from the owner of the shipping location franchise letting me know it was a cheap painting and that I should find a local art school student to try to fix it and make it "good enough" and it shouldn't cost more that $150 at the most. The email was written in a very demeaning and unprofessionally way. I have been very polite in all my correspondence, so this came out of left field.
I have reached out their corporate parent company for them to look into this, and I have attached or entire correspondence. So far they have been no help.
In the end I understand I will probably be on the hook for some, if not all, of the repair costs, but does anyone one on here have experience with disputes like this? Or experience getting a canvas repaired?
(I am self-aware that this post might just be me venting from frustration, but this situation is when I wish I had a lawyer friend to shoot them over an email to persuade them to be reasonable.)
Any advice is welcome. (I know I was vague on the $ amounts and shipper, but I will be happy to PM them if your curious.)
Pictures
Hey all, I am not sure the best place to post this question for advice, but this area seems the most fitting. Long story short, I bought a older Will Cotton canvas at auction last month. I am a HUGE Will Cotton fan (but not blessed with an huge wallet) and to have canvas of his is amazing. I get that this older piece is very different from his current in demand stuff, but I'm still beyond stoked to have bought it! Anyways, I paid a private company to pack and ship the painting. Shipping was nearly equal to the price of the painting. I paid the additional insurance fees as well. The painting arrived but was damaged in transit. (damaged stretcher bar, three tares the to canvas 1" to 3".) The damage was to the side, where there was only one layer of cardboard protection. I will attache photos of the painting and damage for reference. I immediately got in contact with the shipping company and they asked that I document everything and send it over to them. This was done and I was asked to get an estimate for repairs. I contacted a local art framing/gallery/repair shop and got the estimate. The estimate in my opinion did seem quite high. For reference, it was higher than the paid auction price (lower than the auction estimate though). The quote was denied by the shipper and I was asked to get a second estimate which I was happy to do. I then got an email from the owner of the shipping location franchise letting me know it was a cheap painting and that I should find a local art school student to try to fix it and make it "good enough" and it shouldn't cost more that $150 at the most. The email was written in a very demeaning and unprofessionally way. I have been very polite in all my correspondence, so this came out of left field. I have reached out their corporate parent company for them to look into this, and I have attached or entire correspondence. So far they have been no help. In the end I understand I will probably be on the hook for some, if not all, of the repair costs, but does anyone one on here have experience with disputes like this? Or experience getting a canvas repaired? (I am self-aware that this post might just be me venting from frustration, but this situation is when I wish I had a lawyer friend to shoot them over an email to persuade them to be reasonable.) Any advice is welcome. (I know I was vague on the $ amounts and shipper, but I will be happy to PM them if your curious.) Pictures |
|
ncewnimw
New Member
🗨️ 568
👍🏻 419
November 2011
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by ncewnimw on Aug 8, 2018 21:43:07 GMT 1, That's some proper damage. Really poor and insufficient packing. Who packed this, the auction house or the shipping company? GLSIO
That's some proper damage. Really poor and insufficient packing. Who packed this, the auction house or the shipping company? GLSIO
|
|
pr.yu
New Member
🗨️ 496
👍🏻 633
June 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by pr.yu on Aug 8, 2018 21:53:49 GMT 1, Isn't that what insurance is for? Seems pretty lame. They make a fortune off insurance payments when things go well and make it so difficult to recoup costs when they don't.
Isn't that what insurance is for? Seems pretty lame. They make a fortune off insurance payments when things go well and make it so difficult to recoup costs when they don't.
|
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 22:06:33 GMT 1, How awful
the shipping company response is shocking.
Good luck getting it sorted
I would be major pissed with their response and on the phone to who ever i can bark at
Cheeky fuckers
let us know how you get on
How awful
the shipping company response is shocking.
Good luck getting it sorted
I would be major pissed with their response and on the phone to who ever i can bark at
Cheeky fuckers
let us know how you get on
|
|
WOOF
Junior Member
🗨️ 4,464
👍🏻 4,762
March 2014
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by WOOF on Aug 8, 2018 22:06:39 GMT 1, This feels like a job for small claims court, depending on how much the first estimate was.
This feels like a job for small claims court, depending on how much the first estimate was.
|
|
|
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by josephwillis123 on Aug 8, 2018 22:07:57 GMT 1, The Shipping company packaged it.
"We construct shipments for discerning customers who want to ensure their items are packed for maximum protection in transit by trained professionals, using the highest-quality packaging materials available."
So.... one layer of cardboard.
For your reading pleasure, when the owner suggested the art student and getting a fix that is "good enough", I replied politly, but added "I don't think that is an acceptable route to take. I assume "good enough" is not the kind of service XxXx is out to provide."
Their reply...
"Actually, “good enough” is exactly what we try to do at XxXx." ...
"In terms of the value of your painting, you could have purchased one for $5000, or $50,000, but you made a decision that a $XxXx painting was good enough. Now, you’ll need to find a repair that is “good enough,”"
The Shipping company packaged it.
"We construct shipments for discerning customers who want to ensure their items are packed for maximum protection in transit by trained professionals, using the highest-quality packaging materials available."
So.... one layer of cardboard.
For your reading pleasure, when the owner suggested the art student and getting a fix that is "good enough", I replied politly, but added "I don't think that is an acceptable route to take. I assume "good enough" is not the kind of service XxXx is out to provide."
Their reply...
"Actually, “good enough” is exactly what we try to do at XxXx." ...
"In terms of the value of your painting, you could have purchased one for $5000, or $50,000, but you made a decision that a $XxXx painting was good enough. Now, you’ll need to find a repair that is “good enough,”"
|
|
|
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 22:08:01 GMT 1, That's some proper damage. Really poor and insufficient packing. Who packed this, the auction house or the shipping company? GLSIO
Anyways, I paid a private company to pack and ship the painting. Shipping was nearly equal to the price of the painting. I paid the additional insurance fees as well. The painting arrived but was damaged in transit.
That's some proper damage. Really poor and insufficient packing. Who packed this, the auction house or the shipping company? GLSIO From OP Anyways, I paid a private company to pack and ship the painting. Shipping was nearly equal to the price of the painting. I paid the additional insurance fees as well. The painting arrived but was damaged in transit. |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 22:08:50 GMT 1, The Shipping company packaged it. "We construct shipments for discerning customers who want to ensure their items are packed for maximum protection in transit by trained professionals, using the highest-quality packaging materials available." So.... one layer of cardboard.
Can you link the site?
Or is that not a good thing to do?
The Shipping company packaged it. "We construct shipments for discerning customers who want to ensure their items are packed for maximum protection in transit by trained professionals, using the highest-quality packaging materials available." So.... one layer of cardboard. Can you link the site? Or is that not a good thing to do? |
|
|
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by josephwillis123 on Aug 8, 2018 22:17:46 GMT 1, I'm still trying to get things worked out, I don't want to jeopardize that.
I'm still trying to get things worked out, I don't want to jeopardize that.
|
|
mose
New Member
🗨️ 410
👍🏻 424
May 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by mose on Aug 8, 2018 22:44:06 GMT 1, Every painting I've ever bought at auction was crated. From galleries, I have received double-boxed and in the special foam-lined artwork shipping boxes. Only artists themselves have ever shipped me stuff in thin, single-layer cardboard. LOL.
Best of luck on this, and sorry to hear that your auction grab has turned out poorly.
Every painting I've ever bought at auction was crated. From galleries, I have received double-boxed and in the special foam-lined artwork shipping boxes. Only artists themselves have ever shipped me stuff in thin, single-layer cardboard. LOL.
Best of luck on this, and sorry to hear that your auction grab has turned out poorly.
|
|
moron
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,711
👍🏻 1,051
September 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by moron on Aug 8, 2018 23:19:22 GMT 1, The value of the painting makes no difference. It takes the same amount of skill to restore repair a damaged painting If someone has a cheap car or a Rolls Royce it costs the same per hour to repair repaint either car.
What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities.
The damage is in a bad place and looks like the canvas might have to be taken off the stretcher to be repaired properly and then re mounted.
Will Cotton, is he the guy that paints eye candy women in bubble gum clouds?
The value of the painting makes no difference. It takes the same amount of skill to restore repair a damaged painting If someone has a cheap car or a Rolls Royce it costs the same per hour to repair repaint either car.
What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities.
The damage is in a bad place and looks like the canvas might have to be taken off the stretcher to be repaired properly and then re mounted.
Will Cotton, is he the guy that paints eye candy women in bubble gum clouds?
|
|
mose
New Member
🗨️ 410
👍🏻 424
May 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by mose on Aug 8, 2018 23:56:48 GMT 1, What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities.
Sure about that?
Most instances I've run into with insurance the payout/liability = the cost of the work or the cost of the repair, whichever is less. Similar to how a car is 'totaled' if the repair cost is higher than its value.
Also, at least from my experience, shipping insurance is usually sold priced out based on shipment value. For example, a painting at $1000 is $15 to insure, $2000 is $30, etc. You are not going to get repair costs paid that are higher than the amount of insurance purchased.
What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities. Sure about that? Most instances I've run into with insurance the payout/liability = the cost of the work or the cost of the repair, whichever is less. Similar to how a car is 'totaled' if the repair cost is higher than its value. Also, at least from my experience, shipping insurance is usually sold priced out based on shipment value. For example, a painting at $1000 is $15 to insure, $2000 is $30, etc. You are not going to get repair costs paid that are higher than the amount of insurance purchased. |
|
|
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by martin0098 on Aug 9, 2018 0:01:31 GMT 1, Not an expert in any means, just hope this can be well sorted out.
Not an expert in any means, just hope this can be well sorted out.
|
|
cnrdvln
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,404
👍🏻 1,489
February 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by cnrdvln on Aug 9, 2018 11:06:24 GMT 1, Please name and shame once you get this resolved, hopefully it's a quick resolution so you can enjoy the painting!
Please name and shame once you get this resolved, hopefully it's a quick resolution so you can enjoy the painting!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by josephwillis123 on Aug 9, 2018 12:43:24 GMT 1, Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company.
I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total.
The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower.
If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know.
Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company.
I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total.
The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower.
If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know.
|
|
irl1
Full Member
🗨️ 9,274
👍🏻 9,381
December 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by irl1 on Aug 9, 2018 13:59:44 GMT 1, Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company. I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total. The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower. If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know.
www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-consumer-protection
Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company. I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total. The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower. If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know. Contact these, its free and it worked for me before. www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-consumer-protection |
|
lg2771
New Member
🗨️ 523
👍🏻 329
December 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by lg2771 on Aug 9, 2018 16:32:53 GMT 1, Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company. I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total. The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower. If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know.
Have you tried Van witt?
Yes, and I think this is the main issue. Well that and poor packing and unprofessional nature of the shipping company. I bought the painting for about half of the auction estimate. When shipping I was only allowed to insure it as high as the auction result. The insurance fee was a % of the auction total. The repair estimates I have received have been about 50% higher than the purchase price. This is not what I was hoping for, but I cant force the estimates to be lower. If anyone knows any shops around Kansas City (MO or KS) that might be able to take a look at it let me know. Have you tried Van witt? |
|
iamzero
Full Member
🗨️ 9,190
👍🏻 8,545
May 2011
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by iamzero on Aug 9, 2018 16:39:50 GMT 1, Well he’s been dealing with Tee Wats..
Well he’s been dealing with Tee Wats..
|
|
gmh1910
New Member
🗨️ 98
👍🏻 43
May 2015
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by gmh1910 on Aug 10, 2018 3:02:05 GMT 1, It may be a long shot but try contacting Cotton or his main gallery. I know of numerous artists who will assist with their damaged art.
At worst they might let you know the brand / colouurs used in the paints. If not figure 100-200 per hour for a professional restorer. Without seeing images figure 6-12 hours.
As for liability - do not let them take the picture. They will offer an adjuster to look / take for review.
Most shipping firms figure after a while people will give up. They have an independent, ha ha, arbiter to settle disputes. I once had a piece returned and claim denied. It came back 20lbs lighter. They stated not properly packed as they slapped the piece for return between 2sheets of cardboard. In arbitration turned out they drove a forklift through the piece removed the glass and tossed the crate. It takes time but hold firm and keep pushing. Finally, auction price is never insurance value
It may be a long shot but try contacting Cotton or his main gallery. I know of numerous artists who will assist with their damaged art.
At worst they might let you know the brand / colouurs used in the paints. If not figure 100-200 per hour for a professional restorer. Without seeing images figure 6-12 hours.
As for liability - do not let them take the picture. They will offer an adjuster to look / take for review.
Most shipping firms figure after a while people will give up. They have an independent, ha ha, arbiter to settle disputes. I once had a piece returned and claim denied. It came back 20lbs lighter. They stated not properly packed as they slapped the piece for return between 2sheets of cardboard. In arbitration turned out they drove a forklift through the piece removed the glass and tossed the crate. It takes time but hold firm and keep pushing. Finally, auction price is never insurance value
|
|
gmh1910
New Member
🗨️ 98
👍🏻 43
May 2015
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by gmh1910 on Aug 10, 2018 3:05:49 GMT 1, Sorry, final sentence should finish with: It is replacement value of the item or similar - if you had to replace now. Basically how much would his gallery charge for the painting.
Sorry, final sentence should finish with: It is replacement value of the item or similar - if you had to replace now. Basically how much would his gallery charge for the painting.
|
|
moron
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,711
👍🏻 1,051
September 2017
|
Dealing with painting damaged in shipment., by moron on Aug 11, 2018 23:33:18 GMT 1, What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities. Sure about that? Most instances I've run into with insurance the payout/liability = the cost of the work or the cost of the repair, whichever is less. Similar to how a car is 'totaled' if the repair cost is higher than its value. Also, at least from my experience, shipping insurance is usually sold priced out based on shipment value. For example, a painting at $1000 is $15 to insure, $2000 is $30, etc. You are not going to get repair costs paid that are higher than the amount of insurance purchased.
Would an appraiser give a different market value for the painting as to what was paid for it?
If the person who paid the shipping company declared and paid for a low value then I do understand why the shipping company is not obliged to agree to more than is written on the form.
What you paid for the painting has no bearing on the shipping companies liabilities. Sure about that? Most instances I've run into with insurance the payout/liability = the cost of the work or the cost of the repair, whichever is less. Similar to how a car is 'totaled' if the repair cost is higher than its value. Also, at least from my experience, shipping insurance is usually sold priced out based on shipment value. For example, a painting at $1000 is $15 to insure, $2000 is $30, etc. You are not going to get repair costs paid that are higher than the amount of insurance purchased. Is what someone paid at auction or other place relevant as to how much the painting is actually worth? Would an appraiser give a different market value for the painting as to what was paid for it? If the person who paid the shipping company declared and paid for a low value then I do understand why the shipping company is not obliged to agree to more than is written on the form. |
|
