fuzzed
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,446
👍🏻 344
April 2008
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by fuzzed on Nov 19, 2022 20:17:28 GMT 1, Even after using the internet for so many years, the effort that trolls go to amuses me greatly. To be so angry all of the time can’t be great for your health.
Even after using the internet for so many years, the effort that trolls go to amuses me greatly. To be so angry all of the time can’t be great for your health.
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Daniel Silk on Nov 20, 2022 0:22:04 GMT 1, I would guess Banksy feels like everyone is against him, that they are all in it just for the money! But that's not the reality.
He needs the right people around him, to take the pressure and worry away, delegate responsibilities, and give him space to breathe.
I would guess Banksy feels like everyone is against him, that they are all in it just for the money! But that's not the reality.
He needs the right people around him, to take the pressure and worry away, delegate responsibilities, and give him space to breathe.
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LJCal
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,980
👍🏻 4,523
December 2019
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by LJCal on Nov 20, 2022 0:50:59 GMT 1, I just feel frustrated how badly things have been handled for brand Banksy 😕 I wonder what that "new team" have done? I would think first step would be to make a concrete, reliable, regular presence with a Website and Social Media, giving confidence to collectors. Confidence is low, there's no leadership, no management and no communication which instills confusion, anxiety and anger. It's rife throughout the market. Alot of people are saying the same thing but not many are saying it to them out of fear of not getting coa or getting blacklisted. There's an obvious lack of knowledge and experience in key roles. Really bad decision making. I've voice the opinion of the consensus to them directly and crystal clear, however they're only hearing one voice or a handful, they don't believe me that the market is very concerned, they think I'm being pissy. one person is easily ignored. Nothing will change unless people start voicing their concerns as a collective. I've tried, they don't believe me .
I just feel frustrated how badly things have been handled for brand Banksy 😕 I wonder what that "new team" have done? I would think first step would be to make a concrete, reliable, regular presence with a Website and Social Media, giving confidence to collectors. Confidence is low, there's no leadership, no management and no communication which instills confusion, anxiety and anger. It's rife throughout the market. Alot of people are saying the same thing but not many are saying it to them out of fear of not getting coa or getting blacklisted. There's an obvious lack of knowledge and experience in key roles. Really bad decision making. I've voice the opinion of the consensus to them directly and crystal clear, however they're only hearing one voice or a handful, they don't believe me that the market is very concerned, they think I'm being pissy. one person is easily ignored. Nothing will change unless people start voicing their concerns as a collective. I've tried, they don't believe me . Such a shit show, I gave up long ago. I have zero sympathy, they sell millions of pounds of works, get a tonne of money through ARR so there is no excuse for how badly it's run. They're just thumbing their noise at their collectors. Anyone who thinks PC is some sort of altruistic endeavour to protect people is deluded, it's a commercial venture that turns millions of pounds and treats its customers like shit. Totally unsustainable. |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Daniel Silk on Nov 20, 2022 1:00:45 GMT 1, It's still possible to turn it around, and regain credibility, but times running out. Leave it too long to fester and it could end up Banksy just walking away from the whole thing, giving up and retiring.
It's still possible to turn it around, and regain credibility, but times running out. Leave it too long to fester and it could end up Banksy just walking away from the whole thing, giving up and retiring.
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by House of Arts on Nov 20, 2022 4:41:14 GMT 1, If Banksy would just give up and retire, wouldn't someone else fill the void selling authenticated COA's (like Castle Gallery?).
I still have my Morons I bought from Andy in 2016 and it was the smoothest transaction ever. Managed to get it for £3600, oh how times have changed 
If Banksy would just give up and retire, wouldn't someone else fill the void selling authenticated COA's (like Castle Gallery?). I still have my Morons I bought from Andy in 2016 and it was the smoothest transaction ever. Managed to get it for £3600, oh how times have changed |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 10:17:21 GMT 1, If Banksy would just give up and retire, wouldn't someone else fill the void selling authenticated COA's (like Castle Gallery?). I still have my Morons I bought from Andy in 2016 and it was the smoothest transaction ever. Managed to get it for £3600, oh how times have changed
Thanks for the kind words 🙏, that image alongside Napalm always stopped people in their tracks, conversation starters every time. 2 of my favourites.
If PC didn't exist, people/artworld would take over but for me that's not the best option. An ideal world would be a properly functioning PC. That's very doable with the right support/staff, there's no rocket science involved.
It's unlikely they'll reach out to me all things considered, I hope they reach out to @fuzzyduck or similar to get the perspective of someone outside the bubble. They need to understand what the collectors are saying/feeing, they need to know this to be able to do their job properly.
I understand the boutique style and certainly understand the artist not wanting to align with anyone in the art world however I think we're past that stage now. The artist could and should be left alone to create/live and the problems should be taken care of so he isn't wasting his timing on the donkey work and headaches.
If Banksy would just give up and retire, wouldn't someone else fill the void selling authenticated COA's (like Castle Gallery?). I still have my Morons I bought from Andy in 2016 and it was the smoothest transaction ever. Managed to get it for £3600, oh how times have changed I hope he doesn't retire, I would get bored of it all pretty quickly just selling, more than likely I'd retire from the scene myself. I can't see him retiring from art anymore than David Attenborough retiring from learning about nature though tbh. Thanks for the kind words 🙏, that image alongside Napalm always stopped people in their tracks, conversation starters every time. 2 of my favourites. If PC didn't exist, people/artworld would take over but for me that's not the best option. An ideal world would be a properly functioning PC. That's very doable with the right support/staff, there's no rocket science involved. It's unlikely they'll reach out to me all things considered, I hope they reach out to @fuzzyduck or similar to get the perspective of someone outside the bubble. They need to understand what the collectors are saying/feeing, they need to know this to be able to do their job properly. I understand the boutique style and certainly understand the artist not wanting to align with anyone in the art world however I think we're past that stage now. The artist could and should be left alone to create/live and the problems should be taken care of so he isn't wasting his timing on the donkey work and headaches. |
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urbanflik
New Member
🗨️ 484
👍🏻 372
February 2010
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by urbanflik on Nov 20, 2022 10:46:55 GMT 1, I’ve communicated with Pest for many years now and I’ve also ran large scale call centres that are measured on metrics such as enquiry response time, customer NPS scores, call wait time etc
They have always been elusive/vague which added to the mystery of Banksy for me, but with GDP sales colliding with covid i can imagine their in inbound queries likely increased 10 times. Recruiting in a pandemic, for a secretive artist, whilst working from home, after selling hundreds of works via GDP to new VIPs each with different expectations, plus a sudden and significant increase in artist popularity creates the perfect storm for a customer service shit show..
Ultimately it takes strategy+leadership+technology to deliver good customer experience in high volume environments - it sounds a bit dry and not so Banksy street, but its the facts.
I’ve been waiting on 2 COAs for almost 2yrs - I can’t say I'm actually that annoyed as it just feels like part of the game and i can understand what it must be like to manage pest office, but my expectation maybe different from others, so on that basis i do hope they can improve on their experience.
As we get in to 2023 and market has slowed more, GDP COAs have been issued, i expect there will be natural improvement.
The question is would you ever stop buying Banksy due to the Pest Experience?
or if there was one thing pest could do to improve their customers experience, what would it be?
I’ve communicated with Pest for many years now and I’ve also ran large scale call centres that are measured on metrics such as enquiry response time, customer NPS scores, call wait time etc
They have always been elusive/vague which added to the mystery of Banksy for me, but with GDP sales colliding with covid i can imagine their in inbound queries likely increased 10 times. Recruiting in a pandemic, for a secretive artist, whilst working from home, after selling hundreds of works via GDP to new VIPs each with different expectations, plus a sudden and significant increase in artist popularity creates the perfect storm for a customer service shit show..
Ultimately it takes strategy+leadership+technology to deliver good customer experience in high volume environments - it sounds a bit dry and not so Banksy street, but its the facts.
I’ve been waiting on 2 COAs for almost 2yrs - I can’t say I'm actually that annoyed as it just feels like part of the game and i can understand what it must be like to manage pest office, but my expectation maybe different from others, so on that basis i do hope they can improve on their experience.
As we get in to 2023 and market has slowed more, GDP COAs have been issued, i expect there will be natural improvement.
The question is would you ever stop buying Banksy due to the Pest Experience?
or if there was one thing pest could do to improve their customers experience, what would it be?
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urbanflik
New Member
🗨️ 484
👍🏻 372
February 2010
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by urbanflik on Nov 20, 2022 11:31:15 GMT 1, So is it specifically the COA wait times that are an issue for you? And do you believe there should be a law suit against Pest in order to speed up the process?
So is it specifically the COA wait times that are an issue for you? And do you believe there should be a law suit against Pest in order to speed up the process?
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 11:37:42 GMT 1, This is indicative of the collective mindset of collectors reaching out, clients of both myself and PC. This is what I'm hearing over and over and over and PC don't hear.
Once I'm aware the message has reached the artist I'll step back, then it's his call.
It can stop with a phonecall from Mark to confirm the message has landed with the artist, a message from PC doesn't work for me.
This is indicative of the collective mindset of collectors reaching out, clients of both myself and PC. This is what I'm hearing over and over and over and PC don't hear. Once I'm aware the message has reached the artist I'll step back, then it's his call. It can stop with a phonecall from Mark to confirm the message has landed with the artist, a message from PC doesn't work for me. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 11:48:47 GMT 1, So is it specifically the COA wait times that are an issue for you? And do you believe there should be a law suit against Pest in order to speed up the process?
What I'm saying on here is a very watered down version of what I have said to them directly. If I wasn't as dedicated and grateful to the artist/market as I am, how I would have handled this could have been very different, not good for anyone.
This is last thing I want to be spending my time/energy on.
So is it specifically the COA wait times that are an issue for you? And do you believe there should be a law suit against Pest in order to speed up the process? No, the GDP Coas being late doesn't bother me personally although it does with others. I'm sure there's situations where people have been affected by the GDP coa situation but they were primary at a fraction of the secondary value and it was a mammoth task so no that's not the concern for me. I have a number of concerns but I'll drip them out, it's only fair to give them time to digest and and make a decision. What I'm saying on here is a very watered down version of what I have said to them directly. If I wasn't as dedicated and grateful to the artist/market as I am, how I would have handled this could have been very different, not good for anyone. This is last thing I want to be spending my time/energy on. |
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vickyv
New Member
🗨️ 100
👍🏻 150
November 2019
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by vickyv on Nov 20, 2022 12:06:23 GMT 1, The trouble is, does anything said to PC ever get back to B - particularly if it is critical of PC. To me (having run my own business, and other peoples’ businesses) communication is key; also key is having the right people making decisions. I appreciate B shouldn’t have to run his ‘business’ but it is important that he puts capable people in charge of that who are transparent with him (rather than telling him what he wants to hear because they think it’s cool working for B). From a purely practical point of view it doesn’t take a huge amount to manage a database…
And no, I’m not looking at this from the perspective of someone looking to make a fortune from the one unsigned B I have - I saved up for it for years and am not looking to sell. However, I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who has been trying to get a coa for it for nearly 3 years with absolutely no communication from PC during that period. To reiterate that is not because I am going to sell it, it’s because I want it registered in my name with PC and the peace of mind that it is genuine.
From what is being said in this thread it sounds like the coa issue is just the tip of the iceberg. If B had the right team in place (& I don’t know any of the current team) he wouldn’t have to worry about any of this and could just get on with what he wants to do which is how it should be.
The trouble is, does anything said to PC ever get back to B - particularly if it is critical of PC. To me (having run my own business, and other peoples’ businesses) communication is key; also key is having the right people making decisions. I appreciate B shouldn’t have to run his ‘business’ but it is important that he puts capable people in charge of that who are transparent with him (rather than telling him what he wants to hear because they think it’s cool working for B). From a purely practical point of view it doesn’t take a huge amount to manage a database…
And no, I’m not looking at this from the perspective of someone looking to make a fortune from the one unsigned B I have - I saved up for it for years and am not looking to sell. However, I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who has been trying to get a coa for it for nearly 3 years with absolutely no communication from PC during that period. To reiterate that is not because I am going to sell it, it’s because I want it registered in my name with PC and the peace of mind that it is genuine.
From what is being said in this thread it sounds like the coa issue is just the tip of the iceberg. If B had the right team in place (& I don’t know any of the current team) he wouldn’t have to worry about any of this and could just get on with what he wants to do which is how it should be.
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Reader
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,272
👍🏻 2,831
June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 12:10:21 GMT 1, I don't think people fully understand the scale of the task. He's the most faked artist in the history of the world. Every mid sized village in every city across the Western hemisphere have had fake works produced on their walls, street signs and urban furniture. 20 years of people faking and producing "product" pumped out from everywhere from known galleries to ebay to provincial auction houses. From flyers to stickers to protest signs to t-shirts. Everyone who has ever bought something online, at some point, is sending in requests for COA's etc. Not to mention invites, charities, west country prints, backdoor prints etc etc this plus a whole host of "genuine" prints that the staff stamped themselves and sold off the books. This on top of a pandemic for 2 years when the office wasn't staffed, is inevitably going to cause delays in processing genuine requests. Two years for authentication isn't unusual for other major names, but it's significantly less for Banksy works bought from primary. The only complaints are coming from self interested parties, many of whom have built their secondary market businesses around the artist, who let's be honest, became something of a cash cow. The fact is, most works with clear provenance sold as art by Laz or others, are fine. If you picked up a print or sticker or flyer on ebay without a COA, and you don't have a receipt or paper record, and there's the slightest doubt, then these need to be seen and confirmed by the artist himself. There's literally 100's of thousands of these. And understandably, this isn't a priority for the artist right now, or ever I imagine, nor is servicing the needs of "consumers", hence the new two day's a year where auction houses can submit. All things considered, I'd say they're doing well, and no amount of additional staff or tech or corporate "factory" structure will change this.
PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April.
I don't think people fully understand the scale of the task. He's the most faked artist in the history of the world. Every mid sized village in every city across the Western hemisphere have had fake works produced on their walls, street signs and urban furniture. 20 years of people faking and producing "product" pumped out from everywhere from known galleries to ebay to provincial auction houses. From flyers to stickers to protest signs to t-shirts. Everyone who has ever bought something online, at some point, is sending in requests for COA's etc. Not to mention invites, charities, west country prints, backdoor prints etc etc this plus a whole host of "genuine" prints that the staff stamped themselves and sold off the books. This on top of a pandemic for 2 years when the office wasn't staffed, is inevitably going to cause delays in processing genuine requests. Two years for authentication isn't unusual for other major names, but it's significantly less for Banksy works bought from primary. The only complaints are coming from self interested parties, many of whom have built their secondary market businesses around the artist, who let's be honest, became something of a cash cow. The fact is, most works with clear provenance sold as art by Laz or others, are fine. If you picked up a print or sticker or flyer on ebay without a COA, and you don't have a receipt or paper record, and there's the slightest doubt, then these need to be seen and confirmed by the artist himself. There's literally 100's of thousands of these. And understandably, this isn't a priority for the artist right now, or ever I imagine, nor is servicing the needs of "consumers", hence the new two day's a year where auction houses can submit. All things considered, I'd say they're doing well, and no amount of additional staff or tech or corporate "factory" structure will change this.
PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 12:40:04 GMT 1, I don't think people fully understand the scale of the task. He's the most faked artist in the history of the world. Every mid sized village in every city across the Western hemisphere have had fake works produced on their walls, street signs and urban furniture. 20 years of people faking and producing "product" pumped out from everywhere from known galleries to ebay to provincial auction houses. From flyers to stickers to protest signs to t-shirts. Everyone who has ever bought something online, at some point, is sending in requests for COA's etc. Not to mention invites, charities, west country prints, backdoor prints etc etc this plus a whole host of "genuine" prints that the staff stamped themselves and sold off the books. This on top of a pandemic for 2 years when the office wasn't staffed, is inevitably going to cause delays in processing genuine requests. Two years for authentication isn't unusual for other major names, but it's significantly less for Banksy works bought from primary. The only complaints are coming from self interested parties, many of whom have built their secondary market businesses around the artist, who let's be honest, became something of a cash cow. The fact is, most works with clear provenance sold as art by Laz or others, are fine. If you picked up a print or sticker or flyer on ebay without a COA, and you don't have a receipt or paper record, and there's the slightest doubt, then these need to be seen and confirmed by the artist himself. There's literally 100's of thousands of these. And understandably, this isn't a priority for the artist right now, or ever I imagine, nor is servicing the needs of "consumers", hence the new two day's a year where auction houses can submit. All things considered, I'd say they're doing well, and no amount of additional staff or tech or corporate "factory" structure will change this. PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April.
I don't think people fully understand the scale of the task. He's the most faked artist in the history of the world. Every mid sized village in every city across the Western hemisphere have had fake works produced on their walls, street signs and urban furniture. 20 years of people faking and producing "product" pumped out from everywhere from known galleries to ebay to provincial auction houses. From flyers to stickers to protest signs to t-shirts. Everyone who has ever bought something online, at some point, is sending in requests for COA's etc. Not to mention invites, charities, west country prints, backdoor prints etc etc this plus a whole host of "genuine" prints that the staff stamped themselves and sold off the books. This on top of a pandemic for 2 years when the office wasn't staffed, is inevitably going to cause delays in processing genuine requests. Two years for authentication isn't unusual for other major names, but it's significantly less for Banksy works bought from primary. The only complaints are coming from self interested parties, many of whom have built their secondary market businesses around the artist, who let's be honest, became something of a cash cow. The fact is, most works with clear provenance sold as art by Laz or others, are fine. If you picked up a print or sticker or flyer on ebay without a COA, and you don't have a receipt or paper record, and there's the slightest doubt, then these need to be seen and confirmed by the artist himself. There's literally 100's of thousands of these. And understandably, this isn't a priority for the artist right now, or ever I imagine, nor is servicing the needs of "consumers", hence the new two day's a year where auction houses can submit. All things considered, I'd say they're doing well, and no amount of additional staff or tech or corporate "factory" structure will change this. PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April. I'm well aware of the mountain of a task involved. To say no amount of support staff or tech will change this is nonsense. All things considered they're doing well? Nonsense. Not in the real world they aren't. You don't think more support would help them and the artist? |
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mojo
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,188
👍🏻 3,713
May 2014
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by mojo on Nov 20, 2022 12:43:28 GMT 1, I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!!
Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do?
Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved.
I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!!
Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do?
Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved.
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eyectopus
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,104
👍🏻 794
June 2008
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by eyectopus on Nov 20, 2022 12:55:11 GMT 1, Some great points at Reader. PC must have to deal with a massive amount of enquiries. Most online marketplaces have a lot of fake Banksy items and a proportion of them must end up generating queries by people thinking they have an official piece or questioning whether it is official or not.
I had some communication with PC over 2019 and 2020 (not GDP related) and they were very helpful and professional. I was very impressed by them considering the workload and changes to how they worked at that time. My impression is that they really care and try their best for fans and customers.
I have purchased from Castle Gallery and Andy was extremely knowledgeable, professional and passionate about Banksy art. He made the purchase very smooth, a great experience and educational aswell. Andy was highly recommended on here and I can see why.
Some great points at Reader. PC must have to deal with a massive amount of enquiries. Most online marketplaces have a lot of fake Banksy items and a proportion of them must end up generating queries by people thinking they have an official piece or questioning whether it is official or not. I had some communication with PC over 2019 and 2020 (not GDP related) and they were very helpful and professional. I was very impressed by them considering the workload and changes to how they worked at that time. My impression is that they really care and try their best for fans and customers. I have purchased from Castle Gallery and Andy was extremely knowledgeable, professional and passionate about Banksy art. He made the purchase very smooth, a great experience and educational aswell. Andy was highly recommended on here and I can see why. |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 12:57:51 GMT 1, I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!! Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do? Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved. It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact
I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!! Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do? Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved. He is a shop, that's the juxtapose. It's a product that has been marketed as a commodity. It's why he's been able to do the crazy Stunts etc etc It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 13:02:29 GMT 1, PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April. I'm well aware of the mountain of a task involved. To say no amount of support staff or tech will change this is nonsense. All things considered they're doing well? Nonsense. Not in the real world they aren't. You don't think more support would help them and the artist?
PS : I say this as someone who has had works cleared in 8-9 months, and others that are still pending the artists eye, it will be two years in April. I'm well aware of the mountain of a task involved. To say no amount of support staff or tech will change this is nonsense. All things considered they're doing well? Nonsense. Not in the real world they aren't. You don't think more support would help them and the artist? You mean the world of secondary market commercial galleries and authentication processes or? because they have one of the finest, most skilled and astute, not to mention idealistic and ethical production teams I know within the context and field that they work. Whether it's Ukraine, legal issues, Dismaland, global art productions, street work or refugee rescue ships. No disrespect, but you're flogging stickers and flyers based on "solid provenance" without COA's from someone who "used to work at POW". It's not even different league, it's different game. Try getting a COA from Kaws for a Chinese knock off figure. The problem seems to be a whole generation of "collectors" who self-perceive as "consumers" buying product in a neoliberal market and expect "customer service" to be corporate. But this isn't Banksy, and nor should it be. |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 13:10:41 GMT 1, He is a shop, that's the juxtapose. It's a product that has been marketed as a commodity. It's why he's been able to do the crazy Stunts etc etc It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact
He is a shop, that's the juxtapose. It's a product that has been marketed as a commodity. It's why he's been able to do the crazy Stunts etc etc It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact This is your perception, but it's not his, nor many others, he's the very antithesis of a shop selling a commodity. He's an artist making art and art projects. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 13:11:14 GMT 1, I'm well aware of the mountain of a task involved. To say no amount of support staff or tech will change this is nonsense. All things considered they're doing well? Nonsense. Not in the real world they aren't. You don't think more support would help them and the artist? You mean the world of secondary market commercial galleries and authentication processes or? because they have one of the finest, most skilled and astute, not to mention idealistic and ethical production teams I know within the context and field that they work. Whether it's Ukraine, legal issues, Dismaland, global art productions, street work or refugee rescue ships. No disrespect, but you're flogging stickers and flyers based on "solid provenance" without COA's from someone who "used to work at POW". It's not even different league, it's different game. Try getting a COA from Kaws for a Chinese knock off figure.
No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am.
I'm well aware of the mountain of a task involved. To say no amount of support staff or tech will change this is nonsense. All things considered they're doing well? Nonsense. Not in the real world they aren't. You don't think more support would help them and the artist? You mean the world of secondary market commercial galleries and authentication processes or? because they have one of the finest, most skilled and astute, not to mention idealistic and ethical production teams I know within the context and field that they work. Whether it's Ukraine, legal issues, Dismaland, global art productions, street work or refugee rescue ships. No disrespect, but you're flogging stickers and flyers based on "solid provenance" without COA's from someone who "used to work at POW". It's not even different league, it's different game. Try getting a COA from Kaws for a Chinese knock off figure. I enjoy some of your posts so don't really want to block you.You obv has a deep knowledge in some areas but this isn't one of them. You're riding on emotion rather than logic. No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 13:17:15 GMT 1, He is a shop, that's the juxtapose. It's a product that has been marketed as a commodity. It's why he's been able to do the crazy Stunts etc etc It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact This is your perception, but it's not his, nor many others, he's the very antithesis of a shop selling a commodity. He's an artist making art and art projects.
He is a shop, that's the juxtapose. It's a product that has been marketed as a commodity. It's why he's been able to do the crazy Stunts etc etc It's doesn't mean he likes it, but he created it and they have a responsibility based on that fact This is your perception, but it's not his, nor many others, he's the very antithesis of a shop selling a commodity. He's an artist making art and art projects. It's reality, you just lack the necessary info to see it. Antithesis of a shop selling commodity, complete nonsense. He created it and allowed it, he could have stopped it at any point. It's a necessary evil. Necessary for him to be in a position to do what he does. |
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Reader
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,272
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 13:22:15 GMT 1, You mean the world of secondary market commercial galleries and authentication processes or? because they have one of the finest, most skilled and astute, not to mention idealistic and ethical production teams I know within the context and field that they work. Whether it's Ukraine, legal issues, Dismaland, global art productions, street work or refugee rescue ships. No disrespect, but you're flogging stickers and flyers based on "solid provenance" without COA's from someone who "used to work at POW". It's not even different league, it's different game. Try getting a COA from Kaws for a Chinese knock off figure. I enjoy some of your posts so don't really want to block you.You obv has a deep knowledge in some areas but this isn't one of them. You're riding on emotion rather than logic. No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am.
You mean the world of secondary market commercial galleries and authentication processes or? because they have one of the finest, most skilled and astute, not to mention idealistic and ethical production teams I know within the context and field that they work. Whether it's Ukraine, legal issues, Dismaland, global art productions, street work or refugee rescue ships. No disrespect, but you're flogging stickers and flyers based on "solid provenance" without COA's from someone who "used to work at POW". It's not even different league, it's different game. Try getting a COA from Kaws for a Chinese knock off figure. I enjoy some of your posts so don't really want to block you.You obv has a deep knowledge in some areas but this isn't one of them. You're riding on emotion rather than logic. No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am. Emotion? not at all Andy, I don't have a horse in the race. I know quite a few people who were used back in the day to place works with clients who have done very well out of Banksy. Personally, I have no commercial interest, my primary interest is the art and projects in public space, as you pointed out earlier, everything else is a means to an end. You have to look at the bigger picture. the PC team are primarily a production company. |
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Reader
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,272
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 13:25:32 GMT 1, This is your perception, but it's not his, nor many others, he's the very antithesis of a shop selling a commodity. He's an artist making art and art projects. It's reality, you just lack the necessary info to see it. Antithesis of a shop selling commodity, complete nonsense. He created it and allowed it, he could have stopped it at any point. It's a necessary evil. Necessary for him to be in a position to do what he does.
This is your perception, but it's not his, nor many others, he's the very antithesis of a shop selling a commodity. He's an artist making art and art projects. It's reality, you just lack the necessary info to see it. Antithesis of a shop selling commodity, complete nonsense. He created it and allowed it, he could have stopped it at any point. It's a necessary evil. Necessary for him to be in a position to do what he does. Sorry, I don't understand? stop what? making artworks? what is it exactly that you don't think they're doing that they should ? customer service ? |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 13:32:47 GMT 1, I enjoy some of your posts so don't really want to block you.You obv has a deep knowledge in some areas but this isn't one of them. You're riding on emotion rather than logic. No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am. Emotion? not at all Andy, I don't have a horse in the race. I know quite a few people who were used back in the day to place works with clients who have done very well out of Banksy. Personally, I have no commercial interest, my primary interest is the art and projects in public space, as you pointed out earlier, everything else is a means to an end. You have to look at the bigger picture. the PC team are primarily a production company.
I enjoy some of your posts so don't really want to block you.You obv has a deep knowledge in some areas but this isn't one of them. You're riding on emotion rather than logic. No need to defend, I doubt there's anyone more defensive of the artist/market than I am. Emotion? not at all Andy, I don't have a horse in the race. I know quite a few people who were used back in the day to place works with clients who have done very well out of Banksy. Personally, I have no commercial interest, my primary interest is the art and projects in public space, as you pointed out earlier, everything else is a means to an end. You have to look at the bigger picture. the PC team are primarily a production company. I think we're coming from very different places, nothing wrong with that but let's have a chat on the phone sometime, this is just going to be back forth. |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 13:53:19 GMT 1, Emotion? not at all Andy, I don't have a horse in the race. I know quite a few people who were used back in the day to place works with clients who have done very well out of Banksy. Personally, I have no commercial interest, my primary interest is the art and projects in public space, as you pointed out earlier, everything else is a means to an end. You have to look at the bigger picture. the PC team are primarily a production company. I think we're coming from very different places, nothing wrong with that but let's have a chat on the phone sometime, this is just going to be back forth.
Emotion? not at all Andy, I don't have a horse in the race. I know quite a few people who were used back in the day to place works with clients who have done very well out of Banksy. Personally, I have no commercial interest, my primary interest is the art and projects in public space, as you pointed out earlier, everything else is a means to an end. You have to look at the bigger picture. the PC team are primarily a production company. I think we're coming from very different places, nothing wrong with that but let's have a chat on the phone sometime, this is just going to be back forth. I understand your frustration, but it's maybe more productive and informative for members and the forum if we keep it public and community based :-) |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 14:04:23 GMT 1, I think we're coming from very different places, nothing wrong with that but let's have a chat on the phone sometime, this is just going to be back forth. I understand your frustration, but it's maybe more productive and informative for members and the forum if we keep it public and community based :-)
I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other
I think we're coming from very different places, nothing wrong with that but let's have a chat on the phone sometime, this is just going to be back forth. I understand your frustration, but it's maybe more productive and informative for members and the forum if we keep it public and community based :-) Yeah I'm happy to continue the conversation but I think it would benefit everyone if you we had a real life chat to get a better idea of where we're both coming from. I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 15:55:02 GMT 1, I understand your frustration, but it's maybe more productive and informative for members and the forum if we keep it public and community based :-) Yeah I'm happy to continue the conversation but I think it would benefit everyone if you we had a real life chat to get a better idea of where we're both coming from. I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other
www.nuartjournal.com
www.nuartfestival.no
www.nuartaberdeen.co.uk
Is this your place in Lisburn, Belfast ?
I understand your frustration, but it's maybe more productive and informative for members and the forum if we keep it public and community based :-) Yeah I'm happy to continue the conversation but I think it would benefit everyone if you we had a real life chat to get a better idea of where we're both coming from. I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other You can find me on www.nuartjournal.comwww.nuartfestival.nowww.nuartaberdeen.co.ukIs this your place in Lisburn, Belfast ? |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 16:07:54 GMT 1, Yeah I'm happy to continue the conversation but I think it would benefit everyone if you we had a real life chat to get a better idea of where we're both coming from. I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other You can find me on www.nuartjournal.comwww.nuartfestival.nowww.nuartaberdeen.co.ukIs this your place in Lisburn, Belfast ?
Yeah I'm happy to continue the conversation but I think it would benefit everyone if you we had a real life chat to get a better idea of where we're both coming from. I'm actually interested in your end of the market and how you operate, we might learn something off each other You can find me on www.nuartjournal.comwww.nuartfestival.nowww.nuartaberdeen.co.ukIs this your place in Lisburn, Belfast ? Ok perfect, I'll give you a shout. Yes that was the old gallery location. Those photos were taken long a time ago. I was in there about 17 years, moved across the rd from the previous shop, and down the rd from the first spot, all Castle st, hence the name. The first spot was upstairs in a derelict building, those were fun days, not much responsibility, nothing to loose, just having a go |
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Reader
Junior Member
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June 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Reader on Nov 20, 2022 16:22:40 GMT 1, Ok perfect, I'll give you a shout. Yes that was the old gallery location. Those photos were taken long a time ago. I was in there about 17 years, moved across the rd from the previous shop, and down the rd from the first spot, all Castle st, hence the name. The first spot was upstairs in a derelict building, those were fun days, not much responsibility, nothing to loose, just having a go
Ok perfect, I'll give you a shout. Yes that was the old gallery location. Those photos were taken long a time ago. I was in there about 17 years, moved across the rd from the previous shop, and down the rd from the first spot, all Castle st, hence the name. The first spot was upstairs in a derelict building, those were fun days, not much responsibility, nothing to loose, just having a go R Space looks interesting. Do you still have a physical gallery and frame shop or you closed that ? you established a new limited company last year with the missus ? that's the new exclusively Banksy profiled website, or is that also a gallery with other artists? |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 17:00:01 GMT 1, Ok perfect, I'll give you a shout. Yes that was the old gallery location. Those photos were taken long a time ago. I was in there about 17 years, moved across the rd from the previous shop, and down the rd from the first spot, all Castle st, hence the name. The first spot was upstairs in a derelict building, those were fun days, not much responsibility, nothing to loose, just having a go R Space looks interesting. Do you still have a physical gallery and frame shop or you closed that ? you established a new limited company last year with the missus ? that's the new exclusively Banksy profiled website, or is that also a gallery with other artists?
Yes I closed the door to the physical space a few years ago. 99% of my business was international and there were only a handful of clients flew over each year, it's surprising to me even now how many purchase without viewing at these levels but we do independent condition reports etc to make sure everything's on the table so to speak. We did get the art clas students visiting from the local college and some locals but it was mostly a space for holding the artworks, we just had a bit of fun with it. Our models changed over the years, I can work from anywhere now which is ideal, I'm not tied to set times, it freed up a lot of time.
The B market takes up every minute I have outside of family, it has for a long time so Its just the 1 artist I focus on. Means there's only B information rattling about in my head and makes it much easier to pull out info when there's not much else in there.
Maybe when I'm finished this journey I'll use the connections/exposure that the B markets gifted me to do something to help out other artists, maybe I'll add some artists, I really don't know. ATM I'm only focused on 1 thing
Ok perfect, I'll give you a shout. Yes that was the old gallery location. Those photos were taken long a time ago. I was in there about 17 years, moved across the rd from the previous shop, and down the rd from the first spot, all Castle st, hence the name. The first spot was upstairs in a derelict building, those were fun days, not much responsibility, nothing to loose, just having a go R Space looks interesting. Do you still have a physical gallery and frame shop or you closed that ? you established a new limited company last year with the missus ? that's the new exclusively Banksy profiled website, or is that also a gallery with other artists? Yes R Space is great with promoting artists, Anthea who runs it was my first landlord/lady, my own space was above R Space, that building was completely renovated with local council funding, great people/project. No doubt what they do is commendable and my end of the artworld is the uglier side but just happens to be what I'm good at and we all have a role to play. Yes I closed the door to the physical space a few years ago. 99% of my business was international and there were only a handful of clients flew over each year, it's surprising to me even now how many purchase without viewing at these levels but we do independent condition reports etc to make sure everything's on the table so to speak. We did get the art clas students visiting from the local college and some locals but it was mostly a space for holding the artworks, we just had a bit of fun with it. Our models changed over the years, I can work from anywhere now which is ideal, I'm not tied to set times, it freed up a lot of time. The B market takes up every minute I have outside of family, it has for a long time so Its just the 1 artist I focus on. Means there's only B information rattling about in my head and makes it much easier to pull out info when there's not much else in there. Maybe when I'm finished this journey I'll use the connections/exposure that the B markets gifted me to do something to help out other artists, maybe I'll add some artists, I really don't know. ATM I'm only focused on 1 thing |
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LJCal
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,980
👍🏻 4,523
December 2019
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by LJCal on Nov 20, 2022 20:14:20 GMT 1, I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!! Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do? Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved.
On your point of dealers shorting the market, how does one short the art market? It’s theoretically possible with prints I guess but can’t see any realistic mechanism of doing it in practice. I think people subscribe to far too many conspiracy theories when it comes to the art market, yes manipulation goes on but not in the manner or to the degree most people think.
I only came on here to watch the Banksy Ukraine video, which is beautiful and very touching (I didn’t realise you could even get Elvis t’shirts bigger than a tent)…then I saw this thread!!!! Banksy is not a shop, some of these comments are totally laughable. Being female I’m used to being mansplained at and in business there is always someone who knows how to run your business better than you do and will have no hesitation in telling you how, even when you haven’t asked for their advice or even want it. I have no ‘insider knowledge’ on this situation what so ever although as I understand it nowadays if you would like to sell a Banksy artwork it is safer and quicker to go through one of the premier auction houses or recognised galleries to do so, they are likely to have a direct line to PC and also have the financial clout to be able to insure against the slightest error of ever selling a fake. If anyone still has an axe to grind I recommend taking it out on all the copy cat artists and people piggy backing falsely on Banksy’s name as it's them that are clouding the market and making things more difficult to distinguish. This forum appears to encourage the fake Banksy’s as far as I can see...so some of them are ok but others are not dependent on if they pay advertising fee’s is what I can make out? Moving pieces of paper around when they cost a few thousand quid is a totally different game to when they cost 100’s of thousands. Also, just want to add that after seeing some of the dealer offers for rare Banksy signed work lately I wonder if they are trying to short the market so they can buy them up for themselves to sell on later, it looks too manipulated to me ... like what disaster capitalists do? Just to reiterate this is not ‘official info’ it just looks to me like this is what’s happening, and is also a shrewd move as in time it will (I think) regulate the market for everyone involved. But Pest Control pretty much is a shop, it’s a business just look at their accounts. The fact is there are a lot of very unhappy customers who are at the point of no longer wanting to deal with them, and as a result are massively turned off of the artist. Anyone who doesn’t see this as massive problem needs someone to mansplain it better. On your point of dealers shorting the market, how does one short the art market? It’s theoretically possible with prints I guess but can’t see any realistic mechanism of doing it in practice. I think people subscribe to far too many conspiracy theories when it comes to the art market, yes manipulation goes on but not in the manner or to the degree most people think. |
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