Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 19:33:30 GMT 1, On one hand I agree with this, but on the other hand - do we really know what is Banksy's or Pest Control mandate and objectives? What is Pest Control really tasked to "manage"? We assume that we are a "customer" of Pest Control and Banksy in same way as collectors are "customers" to Hirst/Heni and that we should be prioritized and served well and that our "investments" in his art should be well taken care of. What if they don't care and that is not their objective? May be his/their only real "customers" are a small group of VIPs that they still sell originals to? Or may be serving collectors is not their purpose at all? Who knows. Of course, might be also just badly mis-managed, but its so bad that one starts to wonder that may be he/they just don't see collectors as a priority any more and have a different mission and objective
On one hand I agree with this, but on the other hand - do we really know what is Banksy's or Pest Control mandate and objectives? What is Pest Control really tasked to "manage"? We assume that we are a "customer" of Pest Control and Banksy in same way as collectors are "customers" to Hirst/Heni and that we should be prioritized and served well and that our "investments" in his art should be well taken care of. What if they don't care and that is not their objective? May be his/their only real "customers" are a small group of VIPs that they still sell originals to? Or may be serving collectors is not their purpose at all? Who knows. Of course, might be also just badly mis-managed, but its so bad that one starts to wonder that may be he/they just don't see collectors as a priority any more and have a different mission and objective It's just badly mismanaged, most of my clients have a better understanding of the market than PC in my experience, that's worrying. There was always a stability, a sense of the grown ups looking after the kids which brought confidence. It seems more like toddlers are looking after the kids now. |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Charlie Bronson on Nov 18, 2022 19:45:11 GMT 1, There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working.
PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work.
There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work. |
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Minecrafter
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 389
๐๐ป 125
October 2021
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Minecrafter on Nov 18, 2022 20:03:46 GMT 1, I donโt get what you all want from Banksy. I can understand the frustration over slow responses to COA requests, but what else do you need? Heโs an artist whose main output is on the streets for free. Itโs not his responsibility to look after other peopleโs financial interests
If he sells prints, he's responsible to issue COAs.
And I don't know how you can say his main output is on the streets - you are aware how many different versions of prints exist and in what high number they were printed ? Id say the main output are the prints and gross domestic products.
I donโt get what you all want from Banksy. I can understand the frustration over slow responses to COA requests, but what else do you need? Heโs an artist whose main output is on the streets for free. Itโs not his responsibility to look after other peopleโs financial interests If he sells prints, he's responsible to issue COAs. And I don't know how you can say his main output is on the streets - you are aware how many different versions of prints exist and in what high number they were printed ? Id say the main output are the prints and gross domestic products. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 20:28:15 GMT 1, There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work.
Its run incompetently by default, not on purpose.
Better the devil you know than the one you don't. I wouldn't be so sure of that.
There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work. The evidence is everywhere, directing volume to auction inc their own primary clients ie no market control, it's a commodity they created, they can't just chuck everything in the air and see how it lands, they created a commodity and have a responsibility which they acknowledged. Advising sellers to share unredacted coas and high res images with buyers before funds have changed or PC are involved is dangerous, it's like leaving the backdoor open on a busy high street. Its run incompetently by default, not on purpose. Better the devil you know than the one you don't. I wouldn't be so sure of that. |
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Greenback
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 113
๐๐ป 99
November 2013
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Greenback on Nov 18, 2022 20:30:57 GMT 1, There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work.
Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified.
They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes).
The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago.
There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work. I don't believe it's incompetence on the part of PC - I just think every decision has to be run past the artist for approval and there is no delegation of authority. Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified. They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes). The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 7:42:31 GMT 1, Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work. I don't believe it's incompetence on the part of PC - I just think every decision has to be run past the artist for approval and there is no delegation of authority. Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified. They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes). The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago.
Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters.
I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was.
Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, another B fan gets left holding a very expensive baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas?
I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with.
If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist.
Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that.
It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed.
An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess.
Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack.
Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles.
I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care.
This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period.
And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help.
I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance.
Although itโs frustrating, I disagree. There isnโt any tangible evidence that PCโs incompetence is โdamaging the artists estate, market, values and credibilityโ, arguably to the contrary. Not saying what PC is doing is admirable or right in any way, but I donโt agree that itโs had any negative effect on Bโs value and credibility. PC continues to disappoint, which imho is exactly what B wants. GDP even had a disclaimer, embracing and pretty much bragging about the disappointing incompetence on the part of the staff. Heโs aware of whatโs happening, and if he wanted to change it, he would. With that being said, Iโm under the impression that B likes how things are being runโฆ.incompetently, and theyโll continue to do so, with no effect on the value or credibility of his work. I don't believe it's incompetence on the part of PC - I just think every decision has to be run past the artist for approval and there is no delegation of authority. Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified. They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes). The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago. I don't think the artist has much inclination towards the business end of things and I don't believe the artist always hears what he should. Rather a bent into shape version of it that they think he wants to hear to keep them in favour. The truth is the only thing he needs to hear, good or bad and I'm not convinced the current PC have the depth of understanding and knowledge needed currently to provide it. PC aren't protecting him, they're creating a mountain of problems he will have to deal with in the future, that's not what a good parent/legal guardian should do. Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters. I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was. Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, another B fan gets left holding a very expensive baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas? I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with. If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist. Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that. It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed. An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess. Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack. Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles. I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care. This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period. And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help. I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance. |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Daniel Silk on Nov 19, 2022 8:40:30 GMT 1, I don't believe it's incompetence on the part of PC - I just think every decision has to be run past the artist for approval and there is no delegation of authority. Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified. They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes). The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago. I don't think the artist has much inclination towards the business end of things and I don't believe the artist always hears what he should. Rather a bent into shape version of it that they think he wants to hear to keep them in favour. The truth is the only thing he needs to hear, good or bad and I'm not convinced the current PC have the depth of understanding and knowledge needed currently to provide it. PC aren't protecting him, they're creating a mountain of problems he will have to deal with in the future, that's not what a good parent/legal guardian should do. Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters. I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was. Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, the seller gets left holding the baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas? I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with. If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist. Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that. It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed. An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while and know how to type on a computer. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess. Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack. Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles. I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care. This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period. And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help. I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance.
Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again.
I don't believe it's incompetence on the part of PC - I just think every decision has to be run past the artist for approval and there is no delegation of authority. Regarding resale, there are clear indications that PC want sellers to go via the main auction houses rather than through dealers (the obvious reason being rightful payment of ARR alongside the level of transparency) and personally I believe it is these works that are having COAs prioritised. To drive things in this direction all the competent auction houses (Sothebys, Christie's, Phillips and Bonhams) have scheduled viewing days where consigned non certified prints can be certified. They are also actively advising prominent collectors to not buy works privately unless the change of ownership process and/or 'Keep It Real' process has been completed (presumably to help avoid any problems with fakes). The net result is that everything is taking a lot longer than it used to when Simon and Holly were there which certainly doesn't help those people who have been waiting 2 years for a COA and seen the value of their work halve since the peak of the market nearly 18 months ago. I don't think the artist has much inclination towards the business end of things and I don't believe the artist always hears what he should. Rather a bent into shape version of it that they think he wants to hear to keep them in favour. The truth is the only thing he needs to hear, good or bad and I'm not convinced the current PC have the depth of understanding and knowledge needed currently to provide it. PC aren't protecting him, they're creating a mountain of problems he will have to deal with in the future, that's not what a good parent/legal guardian should do. Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters. I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was. Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, the seller gets left holding the baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas? I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with. If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist. Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that. It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed. An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while and know how to type on a computer. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess. Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack. Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles. I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care. This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period. And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help. I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance. True ๐๐ป Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again. |
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 8:45:26 GMT 1, I don't think the artist has much inclination towards the business end of things and I don't believe the artist always hears what he should. Rather a bent into shape version of it that they think he wants to hear to keep them in favour. The truth is the only thing he needs to hear, good or bad and I'm not convinced the current PC have the depth of understanding and knowledge needed currently to provide it. PC aren't protecting him, they're creating a mountain of problems he will have to deal with in the future, that's not what a good parent/legal guardian should do. Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters. I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was. Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, the seller gets left holding the baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas? I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with. If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist. Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that. It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed. An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while and know how to type on a computer. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess. Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack. Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles. I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care. This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period. And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help. I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance. True ๐๐ป Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again.
B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B
I don't think the artist has much inclination towards the business end of things and I don't believe the artist always hears what he should. Rather a bent into shape version of it that they think he wants to hear to keep them in favour. The truth is the only thing he needs to hear, good or bad and I'm not convinced the current PC have the depth of understanding and knowledge needed currently to provide it. PC aren't protecting him, they're creating a mountain of problems he will have to deal with in the future, that's not what a good parent/legal guardian should do. Where are they actively advising prominent collectors? The keep it real service should be set up in a way that clearly states unredacted legal document and high res images of the artwork that can be used to create perfect fakes should not be shared by sellers with anyone other than PC, dealers don't even need the unredacted coa, what use is it them, it's only useful to fraudsters. I brought it to their attention clearly. I then uploaded a number of originals to have everything in place before offering them for sale, same as the auctions. The reason for this is there have been a number of high value sales almost collapsed and some have collapsed due to PC and their lack of communication. The issues were PCs mistakes to fix, human error but very easily sorted. After I uploaded a number I was contacted and told I was using the service incorrectly(not how to use the service correctly) and they would no longer let me use it. They advised that my seller should share the info with the buyer to check before he buys then they would contact the seller. I asked "so you want me to advise my clients to share high res images of the artwork and coa with the buyer prior to paying?" They replied 'yes'. I said there was zero chance I would advise that to clients and explained how dangerous it was. Now here's what worries me most, they told me they would spot a fake a mile off. How much use is that when the criminal already has everything they need and has created and sold the fake artwork already, the seller gets left holding the baby. Not exactly creating a safe market and looking after the artists best interests. Anyone else noticed an influx in fakes circulating and fake coas? I too believe the reason they are directing the work to auction is re ARR, also prob because they'll not currently capable of dealing with it, their lack of knowledge may we'll have left them with no alternative than offload the hot potato to others to deal with. If they were respected they would probably receive alot more ARR outside of auction and the market would be much healthier, more money for charities, less headaches for the artist. Theyve 2 jobs, authentication/safety and smoothing the road for the artist so he can focused on what he's best at. Not creating and not having to fix problems that never had to be problems, caused problems through negligence. They have no authority or expertise in the market to be giving any advise or direction on that. It's not about destroying PC, things have got to this point because of their decisions or lack thereof. It's about getting a clear message to the artist from more than a few people so it has to be addressed. An easy fix would be bring in a legitimate director who can direct and advise, who has actual experience running a large corporation, they don't have to be from the Banksy world, just someone who knows what they're doing. Not the staff in back because they've been there for a while and know how to type on a computer. They need the right support and someone who can make sensible decisions. They need experience, otherwise the big pile of shit building up behind them will continue to grow. The house is messy, first thing that needs to be done is clean up the mess. Its over 3 years since the change of staff, nothing's been proved other than it's out of whack. Id love PC to do a good job, that's the aim, a stable environment with the right people in the right positions looking after the collectors who put PC etc in the position they're in. It has to be looked at as simply as....are they bringing more negative or positive. If it's more negative then there has to be change or I believe they will have push back they won't be able to handle. I don't want to see that any more than the next. Things need fixed and can be done, with the right people in the right roles. I don't need PC tbh, I have the tools I need and it doesn't make much difference to me personally if the works are 10mill or 10k, it really doesn't. It does make a difference plenty of of others though and PC should care. This is the last post I'll make on it, PC are fully aware of my stance.. There's plenty more to say but it's really up to others who feel fear of the future with the current PC as they are, to speak up like @fuzzyduck You can't leave your future in the hands of others unless they're more capable than you are of looking after it, period. And people really shouldn't chip in backing up PC when they have no understanding of the internal workings/issues ongoing, it doesn't help. I don't like tyranny and I don't like ignorance. True ๐๐ป Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again. ๐ฏ% B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B |
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 9:23:29 GMT 1, True ๐๐ป Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again. ๐ฏ% B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B
True ๐๐ป Its completely fine if Banksy doesn't want to deal with the business side of things, but he needs to accept somebody needs to make those big decisions and steer the ship in the right direction. If he just let's things drift, it's all gonna end in a monster shit storm, and I think Banksy can already see it's building up, but he's not got hold of the situation yet. He needs to put the right people in control, leaving him to concentrate and start enjoying his art again. ๐ฏ% B B B B B B B B B B B B B B B If anyone wants an audience with PC now's your opportunity, I've no doubt eyes will drift this direction. No need for PC backslaps or random "PC are a bunch of dick's" comments. It's an opportunity that shouldn't be wasted, its not easy to get the audience of the only person who really matters. I think you'll have it |
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 9:28:39 GMT 1, For anyone that's not aware CG are no longer contactable via @castlegalleryni insta, you can only contact me via castlegalleryltd Instagram @castlegalleryltd @castlegalleryltd or via the new website castlegalleryltd.com/
For anyone that's not aware CG are no longer contactable via @castlegalleryni insta, you can only contact me via castlegalleryltd Instagram @castlegalleryltd @castlegalleryltd or via the new website castlegalleryltd.com/ |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Daniel Silk on Nov 19, 2022 9:40:11 GMT 1, Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing.
To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him.
I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts.
He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about.
Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing.
To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him.
I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts.
He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about.
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Daniel Silk on Nov 19, 2022 10:04:06 GMT 1, I donโt know Banksy but I canโt imagine this appeals to him. If anything I can see him admiring Blu and wanting to be more like him, stepping away from anything youโd expect from the likes of Hirst or Kaws
Its not about liking what's needed, it's accepting responsibility and making the best of it you can, dealing with the negatives and using them in a way that gives Banksy extra opportunities to further the good causes.
I donโt know Banksy but I canโt imagine this appeals to him. If anything I can see him admiring Blu and wanting to be more like him, stepping away from anything youโd expect from the likes of Hirst or Kaws Exactly! I agree totally, it's probably something he hates the sound of, but if you don't fill the demand you have created, you leave it for others to fill, Brandalized, Unofficial Exhibitions, WCP, Mrs Banksy, Brainwash, and most of all the thousands of fakes flooding the market. Its not about liking what's needed, it's accepting responsibility and making the best of it you can, dealing with the negatives and using them in a way that gives Banksy extra opportunities to further the good causes. |
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 10:04:21 GMT 1, I donโt know Banksy but I canโt imagine this appeals to him. If anything I can see him admiring Blu and wanting to be more like him, stepping away from anything youโd expect from the likes of Hirst or Kaws
I'm fairly certain the message will be seen now. Thats all I wanted and this could all have been avoided but for PC. I tried.
I donโt know Banksy but I canโt imagine this appeals to him. If anything I can see him admiring Blu and wanting to be more like him, stepping away from anything youโd expect from the likes of Hirst or Kaws I wouldn't imagine he will like it, but he should be aware. I'm fairly certain the message will be seen now. Thats all I wanted and this could all have been avoided but for PC. I tried. |
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Fuzzyduck121
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,305
๐๐ป 1,223
December 2011
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Fuzzyduck121 on Nov 19, 2022 10:05:08 GMT 1, There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working.
To elaborate and clarify my previous comments on this subject above itโs important to note that there is zero issue with the artist as an artist per se. In fact itโs my belief that the place in art history Banksy should hold is as iconic as any household name of the last 200 years. The issue is wether or not that position can be cemented without the traditional gallery / institution route, and that will only be possible if PC can operate at a level so finely tuned as to be as good as what it does as the artist is at what he does.
He needs to ask himself if PC does its job which is to protect his market, deal with his public persona, engage with collectors new and old and create new ways to engage with people , as well as Banksy does his job of creating and displaying his artwork publicly and elsewhere .
At the moment there is a disconnect between the two which in my limited but regular interaction with PC is caused by a massive lack of resources , experience and commercial acumen. Banksy is an artist and a business, and having an ideological view that itโs all about street work is remiss. Therefore if you are going to engage with Peppe directly and sell then works if art for up to millions of pounds and then ignore their emails and calls for COAs you are going to ruin your own market and the opportunity for institutions and serious art collectors to hold your work. News like that spreads and people donโt want to get burned when there are plenty of super professional outfits elsewhere. Thatโs just a fact that cannot be ignored or avoided.
There are some simple steps that can be taken to balance the disconnect and allow the artist to achieve and hold his rightful place at the very top of an entire historic art movement.
when the books are written 50 years from now Banksy will either be viewed as the catalyst, centre piece and most gifted artist within a movement or as the one that paved the way and then slumped . He can remain anonymous and still achieve all of the above in my view quite simply but he needs to push the button on it. Those who want to know who he is can do easily but they donโt care and neither do the collectors. Remain pseudo anonymous and allow the persona to be the artist thatโs fine, but accept that a sizeable body, board of individuals or a suitable gallery are needed to get you where you rightfully should be.
I have several ideas of how this could be done. None of them are rocket science
My DMs are open to the big man if he fancies a chat ;-)
There is no issue with the artist per se however the structure and function of PC is pretty much a total failure. The idea that it can take 2-3 years for a COA or a change of owner isn't because they think its clever or there is some sort of commercial reason at all, its because they are completely and utterly failing to do the most basic things and are verging on collapse. Those in the know are more than aware that the situation is beyond bad and that it cannot continue as it has. Whilst the likes of Hirst can create mass projects like the currency and a new series of 300 original works each individually photographed and displayed in a public gallery whilst being sold via applications that are correctly vetted and dealt with thus furthering the artists career and managing his estate, Pest Control cannot print out a piece of paper in the space of 2 years or reply to an email. The issues can, will and are damaging the artists estate, market, values and credibility. Whilst one cannot compare the 2 artists in terms of their ideology or subject matter , one is a current, active artist that is expanding his appeal, engaging fans at all levels as both viewers of the work, collectors and other interested parties, creating new works, entertaining people, vetting purchasers quickly and methodically and allowing a flowing market place for primary and secondary sales without a hitch and the other is in a position where new collectors have nothing to buy, established ones cannot sell their works and other interested parties have one Instagram post a year to keep them going. it isnt working. To elaborate and clarify my previous comments on this subject above itโs important to note that there is zero issue with the artist as an artist per se. In fact itโs my belief that the place in art history Banksy should hold is as iconic as any household name of the last 200 years. The issue is wether or not that position can be cemented without the traditional gallery / institution route, and that will only be possible if PC can operate at a level so finely tuned as to be as good as what it does as the artist is at what he does. He needs to ask himself if PC does its job which is to protect his market, deal with his public persona, engage with collectors new and old and create new ways to engage with people , as well as Banksy does his job of creating and displaying his artwork publicly and elsewhere . At the moment there is a disconnect between the two which in my limited but regular interaction with PC is caused by a massive lack of resources , experience and commercial acumen. Banksy is an artist and a business, and having an ideological view that itโs all about street work is remiss. Therefore if you are going to engage with Peppe directly and sell then works if art for up to millions of pounds and then ignore their emails and calls for COAs you are going to ruin your own market and the opportunity for institutions and serious art collectors to hold your work. News like that spreads and people donโt want to get burned when there are plenty of super professional outfits elsewhere. Thatโs just a fact that cannot be ignored or avoided. There are some simple steps that can be taken to balance the disconnect and allow the artist to achieve and hold his rightful place at the very top of an entire historic art movement. when the books are written 50 years from now Banksy will either be viewed as the catalyst, centre piece and most gifted artist within a movement or as the one that paved the way and then slumped . He can remain anonymous and still achieve all of the above in my view quite simply but he needs to push the button on it. Those who want to know who he is can do easily but they donโt care and neither do the collectors. Remain pseudo anonymous and allow the persona to be the artist thatโs fine, but accept that a sizeable body, board of individuals or a suitable gallery are needed to get you where you rightfully should be. I have several ideas of how this could be done. None of them are rocket science My DMs are open to the big man if he fancies a chat ;-) |
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donnerz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 40
๐๐ป 33
July 2020
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by donnerz on Nov 19, 2022 10:24:06 GMT 1, Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing. To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him. I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts. He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about.
Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing. To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him. I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts. He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about. Wow what a spectacularly bad take. I canโt think of anything more depressing and less โbanksyโ |
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mack
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 288
๐๐ป 179
July 2018
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by mack on Nov 19, 2022 11:10:42 GMT 1, Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing. To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him. I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts. He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about. Wow what a spectacularly bad take. I canโt think of anything more depressing and less โbanksyโ
Banksy should be planning a setup similar to Hirst, with a large fully equipped industrial unit, with studio, warehouse, offices, printing machines, and a team of permanent staff specialized in different skills, Printers, Artists, Social Media, Marketing. To make that work he's probably gonna need to come out and reveal his identity, but he shouldn't fear that as a negative! It can be a big advantage as he can get around and seriously raise the profile of the projects and issues that mean the most personally to him. I think having PC on a separate site, appears they are trying to distance that mess from the Banksy name, but I think to inspire confidence going forward, things should be all on one Banksy website, with a permanently stocked online Store, Authenticity, News posted every single day! On the website and across social media accounts. He's big now, but he can be absolutely massive if he gets the right team around him, protecting him, and allowing him not to get bogged down in things that he shouldn't need to worry about. Wow what a spectacularly bad take. I canโt think of anything more depressing and less โbanksyโ Wouldnโt call it bad, maybe a bit boring and not very โstreetโ, but not bad. It all depends on the ambition of the artist. He would get a bigger platform to get his message out, but at the same time he would loose some originality and mystery. |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by concrete jungle on Nov 19, 2022 15:41:53 GMT 1, Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ
Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 16:03:49 GMT 1, Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ
PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them.
My phone's very beepy today
Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ That makes sense. There aren't a lot of voices yet for the same reason people don't use check before you buy, they don't want PC to know they're selling, they don't want to loose the opportunity in the future etc, that's part of the culture, that's why I've been doing almost all my business non public for so long. PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them. My phone's very beepy today |
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Gnocchi Friends on Nov 19, 2022 16:13:31 GMT 1, He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it.
He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it.
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Fuzzyduck121
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,305
๐๐ป 1,223
December 2011
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Fuzzyduck121 on Nov 19, 2022 16:40:40 GMT 1, He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it.
if you are happy to sell 1000 pieces via GDP to collectors and raffle winners they have a right to some sort of service and support
for as long as there has been Banksy there has been Banksys for sale
pretty sure that at least Laz would have picked up the phone back in the day
He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it. The issue is that the factory has already opened its doors if you are happy to sell 1000 pieces via GDP to collectors and raffle winners they have a right to some sort of service and support for as long as there has been Banksy there has been Banksys for sale pretty sure that at least Laz would have picked up the phone back in the day |
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eyectopus
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,104
๐๐ป 794
June 2008
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by eyectopus on Nov 19, 2022 16:59:05 GMT 1, Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ That makes sense. There aren't a lot of voices yet for the same reason people don't use check before you buy, they don't want PC to know they're selling, they don't want to loose the opportunity in the future etc, that's part of the culture, that's why I've been doing almost all my business non public for so long. PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them. My phone's very beepy today
Agree with some of the points above having had past dealings with PC. Iโd look at the Invader โbusiness modelโ rather than Hirst for Banksy. Not aware of the inner management workings, but Invader and his team does seem to be on top of their game at the minuteโฆโฆ That makes sense. There aren't a lot of voices yet for the same reason people don't use check before you buy, they don't want PC to know they're selling, they don't want to loose the opportunity in the future etc, that's part of the culture, that's why I've been doing almost all my business non public for so long. PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them. My phone's very beepy today That is something I always wondered about secondary sales by collectors of Banksy pieces. If selling is frowned upon by PC generally or only in certain cases such as flipping. As in if there was a lottery would previous sellers be filtered out. |
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eyectopus
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,104
๐๐ป 794
June 2008
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by eyectopus on Nov 19, 2022 17:26:46 GMT 1, He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it. The issue is that the factory has already opened its doors if you are happy to sell 1000 pieces via GDP to collectors and raffle winners they have a right to some sort of service and support for as long as there has been Banksy there has been Banksys for sale pretty sure that at least Laz would have picked up the phone back in the day
He's an artist. I don't recall reading anywhere that delecroix or Blake had a factory. Just because people want something doesn't mean that they should have it. The issue is that the factory has already opened its doors if you are happy to sell 1000 pieces via GDP to collectors and raffle winners they have a right to some sort of service and support for as long as there has been Banksy there has been Banksys for sale pretty sure that at least Laz would have picked up the phone back in the day If a person was selected to purchase a GDP item and received it as expected, PC have provided the service and would have supported if there was issues. That person ended up having a great item at a relatively low price in their collection. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 17:58:41 GMT 1, That makes sense. There aren't a lot of voices yet for the same reason people don't use check before you buy, they don't want PC to know they're selling, they don't want to loose the opportunity in the future etc, that's part of the culture, that's why I've been doing almost all my business non public for so long. PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them. My phone's very beepy today That is something I always wondered about secondary sales by collectors of Banksy pieces. If selling is frowned upon by PC generally or only in certain cases such as flipping. As in if there was a lottery would previous sellers be filtered out.
GDP seemed more like a Lucky Dip concept. One of the directors offered someone they had never dealt with before and without doing any background checks or explaining what was expected of them as a buyer, if anything, a rare HF and a triptych. I was contacted shortly after and offered the works, the person hadn't even paid the invoice but was under the impression I could pay the invoice for him, then send him his fee and PC would send me the prints and later on coas. He didn't think this would be a problem, because it wasn't communicated. I spoke to a director of PC on the phone who didn't understand why he would think that. First he doesn't know anything about B and second he wasnt told anything. The director then joked about him asking for a pet portrait. That's how much control there is of the market now.
A large percentage of GDP were flipped.
That makes sense. There aren't a lot of voices yet for the same reason people don't use check before you buy, they don't want PC to know they're selling, they don't want to loose the opportunity in the future etc, that's part of the culture, that's why I've been doing almost all my business non public for so long. PCs words were..The problem is people don't communicate with PC. I said it's the complete opposite, one of the problems is PC don't communicate with the people. Nobody knows what's expected of them. My phone's very beepy today That is something I always wondered about secondary sales by collectors of Banksy pieces. If selling is frowned upon by PC generally or only in certain cases such as flipping. As in if there was a lottery would previous sellers be filtered out. In the past it was controlled, they never liked flipping. The common belief was PC didn't like collectors selling at all, that wasn't really the case. They understood collectors changed their collection about over time and in my experience they were fine with reselling after a period. It was always better to make them aware rather than them finding out after the fact, transparency. The main point would have been that it was done discreetly and not in a way that would be detrimental to the artist/market. GDP seemed more like a Lucky Dip concept. One of the directors offered someone they had never dealt with before and without doing any background checks or explaining what was expected of them as a buyer, if anything, a rare HF and a triptych. I was contacted shortly after and offered the works, the person hadn't even paid the invoice but was under the impression I could pay the invoice for him, then send him his fee and PC would send me the prints and later on coas. He didn't think this would be a problem, because it wasn't communicated. I spoke to a director of PC on the phone who didn't understand why he would think that. First he doesn't know anything about B and second he wasnt told anything. The director then joked about him asking for a pet portrait. That's how much control there is of the market now. A large percentage of GDP were flipped. |
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ozmataz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 46
๐๐ป 20
February 2016
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by ozmataz on Nov 19, 2022 18:30:16 GMT 1, I wonder if Banksy even cares about his legacy and which major museums will be collecting his art in 50 years...
I wonder if Banksy even cares about his legacy and which major museums will be collecting his art in 50 years...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 18:40:08 GMT 1, I wonder if Banksy even cares about his legacy and which major museums will be collecting his art in 50 years...
I wonder if Banksy even cares about his legacy and which major museums will be collecting his art in 50 years... I think he cares about his legacy, he's went to alit of effort to get to this point, he's the creator in more than one way. He's part of art history regardless. |
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donnerz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 40
๐๐ป 33
July 2020
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by donnerz on Nov 19, 2022 18:54:36 GMT 1, @geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable.
@geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 19:06:21 GMT 1, @geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable.
@geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable. You might want to check the website, I sold primary work for the artist for almost a decade, I don't need money. I'll reiterate, you have an audience of PC / the artist, use it wisely. If you've something useful to say to help, great, otherwise it's just pointless noise. |
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donnerz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 40
๐๐ป 33
July 2020
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by donnerz on Nov 19, 2022 19:09:26 GMT 1, @geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable. You might want to check the website, I sold primary work for the artist for almost a decade, I don't need money. I'll reiterate, you have an audience of PC / the artist, use it wisely. If you've something useful to say to help, great, otherwise it's just pointless noise.
@geegon indeed - interesting to see all the past supporters who have been making money via Banksy's output for years suddenly having an issue when it effects the bottom line. Sadly predictable. You might want to check the website, I sold primary work for the artist for almost a decade, I don't need money. I'll reiterate, you have an audience of PC / the artist, use it wisely. If you've something useful to say to help, great, otherwise it's just pointless noise. Yes, you sold the artist work at primary. Presumably for a financial gain rather than some abstract charity endeavour? |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 19:18:27 GMT 1, You might want to check the website, I sold primary work for the artist for almost a decade, I don't need money. I'll reiterate, you have an audience of PC / the artist, use it wisely. If you've something useful to say to help, great, otherwise it's just pointless noise. Yes, you sold the artist work at primary. Presumably for a financial gain rather than some abstract charity endeavour?
This has been fairly sensible up to now, seems the drinks flowing so I'll let you's blurt away.
You might want to check the website, I sold primary work for the artist for almost a decade, I don't need money. I'll reiterate, you have an audience of PC / the artist, use it wisely. If you've something useful to say to help, great, otherwise it's just pointless noise. Yes, you sold the artist work at primary. Presumably for a financial gain rather than some abstract charity endeavour? You've no idea how exhausting that was to read. This has been fairly sensible up to now, seems the drinks flowing so I'll let you's blurt away. |
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donnerz
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 40
๐๐ป 33
July 2020
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Bbay, The approved used Banksy dealership, by donnerz on Nov 19, 2022 19:23:36 GMT 1, Ha sure Andrew, tell yourself whatever you need to. You might be shocked to learn a good portion of the world donโt even drink alcohol. Wishing you all the best on your new journey regardless.
Ha sure Andrew, tell yourself whatever you need to. You might be shocked to learn a good portion of the world donโt even drink alcohol. Wishing you all the best on your new journey regardless.
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