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Fake
Artist
Junior Member
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July 2008
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by Fake on Feb 21, 2020 18:08:04 GMT 1,
Yes, this was 2 years ago ;-)
Yes, this was 2 years ago ;-)
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by Coach on Feb 21, 2020 18:12:09 GMT 1, Yes, this was 2 years ago ;-)
My apologies. I linked the wrong article.
The award has just been upheld (It had been appealed).
Artnet article from yesterday
news.artnet.com/art-world/5pointz-ruling-upheld-1782396
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trax51
New Member
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July 2011
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by trax51 on Feb 21, 2020 18:51:37 GMT 1, Great news !!!
Great news !!!
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eye like
New Member
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September 2015
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by eye like on Feb 21, 2020 19:01:37 GMT 1, I hadn't seen that, thanks for sharing.
What a fantastic outcome, and the court really ripped in to Wolkoff and his legal team on all points. How refreshing to see the legal system working for the artist's benefit for a change.
I hadn't seen that, thanks for sharing.
What a fantastic outcome, and the court really ripped in to Wolkoff and his legal team on all points. How refreshing to see the legal system working for the artist's benefit for a change.
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by Coach on Feb 21, 2020 20:01:48 GMT 1, My first thought too was delight for the writers. But, having discussed this with friends, I have second thoughts. Is it not the case that building owners sympathetic to artists might now be put off allowing artists and writers from painting legally on their buildings in the future?
My first thought too was delight for the writers. But, having discussed this with friends, I have second thoughts. Is it not the case that building owners sympathetic to artists might now be put off allowing artists and writers from painting legally on their buildings in the future?
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eye like
New Member
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September 2015
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by eye like on Feb 22, 2020 0:18:12 GMT 1, You do make an interesting point. I hadn’t really considered that might be a consequence.
But then if the verdict had gone the other way justice really wouldn’t have been done, so on balance I’m still happy it went the way it did.
The artists had been allowed to paint there for over a decade and then one night he just erases the lot without any warning or discussion. I think the size of the judgement against him was as much down to the contempt he showed for the artists and their work, as it was the way he went about it.
I would hope the ruling wouldn’t stop owners, but i accept it might well lead to more of them asking the artist to sign a contract waiving their rights before they can paint.
You do make an interesting point. I hadn’t really considered that might be a consequence.
But then if the verdict had gone the other way justice really wouldn’t have been done, so on balance I’m still happy it went the way it did.
The artists had been allowed to paint there for over a decade and then one night he just erases the lot without any warning or discussion. I think the size of the judgement against him was as much down to the contempt he showed for the artists and their work, as it was the way he went about it.
I would hope the ruling wouldn’t stop owners, but i accept it might well lead to more of them asking the artist to sign a contract waiving their rights before they can paint.
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stavi
New Member
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September 2017
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by stavi on Feb 22, 2020 2:11:18 GMT 1, But why would the building owner owe any sort of explanation to the artist. Even if he had previously Allowed it, so what? Was there a contract?
It sounds like the judge wanted to flex his power because the guy didnt wait long a enough for a specific permit to go through.
But why would the building owner owe any sort of explanation to the artist. Even if he had previously Allowed it, so what? Was there a contract?
It sounds like the judge wanted to flex his power because the guy didnt wait long a enough for a specific permit to go through.
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by Extra Ball on Oct 8, 2020 16:19:59 GMT 1, good news since Monday for the 45 artists of 5pointZ, the supreme court ruled on the fact that the company G&M Realty must pay them 150,000 Dollars each and good news for street art in general which thus recognizes intellectual property in this field.
good news since Monday for the 45 artists of 5pointZ, the supreme court ruled on the fact that the company G&M Realty must pay them 150,000 Dollars each and good news for street art in general which thus recognizes intellectual property in this field.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by met on Jan 27, 2021 10:44:48 GMT 1, good news since Monday for the 45 artists of 5pointZ, the supreme court ruled on the fact that the company G&M Realty must pay them 150,000 Dollars each and good news for street art in general which thus recognizes intellectual property in this field.
Although I previously commented on the 5Pointz case in a separate thread*, it seemed worthwhile to have another go.
__________
Indeed, good news for those 45 artists. At least for their bank accounts.
[I'm well aware of the gratuitous and reprehensible behaviour of the now-deceased Gerald Wolkoff. Even so, it looks as if the artists were rewarded for being chancers — for having spotted a financial opportunity and chosen to bite the hand that had (for many years) fed them.]
__________
But good news for street art in general? I would challenge that assertion.
[As a brief aside, reference to "thus recognizes intellectual property in this [street art] field" also felt misleading and a bit muddled to me. Moral rights were recognised in a specific situation, under quite specific circumstances. And that's largely it.]
Two scenarios for consideration (the first having previously been mentioned in this thread):
1. Place yourself in the position of one of thousands of property owners or developers in the United States, with property that is currently not in use. It may be that you're weighing up the different development options available. Or perhaps dealing with planning permission issues. But whatever the reason for your property being in a temporary state of limbo, that situation could foreseeably continue for months or years to come.
Imagine you're then approached by a friendly graffiti writer who asks the following:
Since the buildings will eventually be torn down anyway and the entire property redeveloped, would you mind allowing his fellow artists to come over in the meantime to paint on the walls, under his curation?
It's a compelling proposition — one that would allow you to support the arts community at no real financial cost or material inconvenience to yourself. You'd become a patron. The writers would have a space to hone their craft and showcase their skills. Sounds like a win-win.
Now, in your capacity as an owner or developer with future plans for their property, would the 5Pointz court decision make you more likely or less likely to open your door to artists who wish to paint on your walls?
For individuals who might otherwise have been amenable to fostering the arts, I'd argue the court ruling will make them much more hesitant about giving artists access to their property.
[Expressed a different way, if presented with a choice, how many people would volunteer to (i) pick up a gun which may or may not be loaded, (ii) point it at their foot, and then (iii) pull the trigger in the hope that the gun isn't loaded?]
2. Imagine both of us are among the tens or hundreds of thousands of street artists or graffiti writers in the USA.
I discover a prominent outdoor wall and paint on it. Days or months later, in time-honoured fashion, you go over my work with your own piece. Or, alternatively, you add your own work in an uninvited collaborative effort which alters the substance, context or tone of what I painted.
Under certain circumstances (for example, if enough street-art bloggers had written about my piece, or enough tourists had taken photos of it, and it were therefore deemed by some to be a "work of recognised stature"), the 5Pointz precedent would seem to allow me to sue you. This, notwithstanding the fact it would be a prat-like move on my part, going completely against the widely-recognised (and accepted) rules of graffiti and street art.
It does beg the question:
If I can rely upon the Visual Artists Rights Act (VARA) to issue legal proceedings in a damages claim against you (or anybody else who goes over my work), how is this "good news for street art in general"?
good news since Monday for the 45 artists of 5pointZ, the supreme court ruled on the fact that the company G&M Realty must pay them 150,000 Dollars each and good news for street art in general which thus recognizes intellectual property in this field. Although I previously commented on the 5Pointz case in a separate thread *, it seemed worthwhile to have another go. __________ Indeed, good news for those 45 artists. At least for their bank accounts. [I'm well aware of the gratuitous and reprehensible behaviour of the now-deceased Gerald Wolkoff. Even so, it looks as if the artists were rewarded for being chancers — for having spotted a financial opportunity and chosen to bite the hand that had (for many years) fed them.]__________ But good news for str eet art in general? I would challenge that assertion. [As a brief aside, reference to "thus recognizes intellectual property in this [street art] field" also felt misleading and a bit muddled to me. Moral rights were recognised in a specific situation, under quite specific circumstances. And that's largely it.] Two scenarios for consideration (the first having previously been mentioned in this thread): 1. Place yourself in the position of one of thousands of property owners or developers in the United States, with property that is currently not in use. It may be that you're weighing up the different development options available. Or perhaps dealing with planning permission issues. But whatever the reason for your property being in a temporary state of limbo, that situation could foreseeably continue for months or years to come. Imagine you're then approached by a friendly graffiti writer who asks the following: Since the buildings will eventually be torn down anyway and the entire property redeveloped, would you mind allowing his fellow artists to come over in the meantime to paint on the walls, under his curation? It's a compelling proposition — one that would allow you to support the arts community at no real financial cost or material inconvenience to yourself. You'd become a patron. The writers would have a space to hone their craft and showcase their skills. Sounds like a win-win. Now, in your capacity as an owner or developer with future plans for their property, would the 5Pointz court decision make you more likely or less likely to open your door to artists who wish to paint on your walls? For individuals who might otherwise have been amenable to fostering the arts, I'd argue the court ruling will make them much more hesitant about giving artists access to their property. [Expressed a different way, if presented with a choice, how many people would volunteer to (i) pick up a gun which may or may not be loaded, (ii) point it at their foot, and then (iii) pull the trigger in the hope that the gun isn't loaded?]2. Imagine both of us are among the tens or hundreds of thousands of st reet artists or graffiti writers in the USA. I discover a prominent outdoor wall and paint on it. Days or months later, in time-honoured fashion, you go over my work with your own piece. Or, alternatively, you add your own work in an uninvited collaborative effort which alters the substance, context or tone of what I painted. Under certain circumstances (for example, if enough str eet-art bloggers had written about my piece, or enough tourists had taken photos of it, and it were therefore deemed by some to be a "work of recognised stature"), the 5Pointz precedent would seem to allow me to sue you. This, notwithstanding the fact it would be a prat-like move on my part, going completely against the widely-recognised (and accepted) rules of graffiti and str eet art. It does beg the question: If I can rely upon the Visual Artists Rights Act (VARA) to issue legal proceedings in a damages claim against you (or anybody else who goes over my work), how is this "good news for street art in general"?
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kaimac
New Member
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October 2013
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Court decision on the 5Pointz Case , by kaimac on Feb 5, 2021 13:45:41 GMT 1, The point about this case was that the building owner destroyed their art under cover of darkness with no warning. Paid to have it whitewashed. Also profited from having it be there. He behaved like a disgusting pig and I'm glad the appeal was denied.
The point about this case was that the building owner destroyed their art under cover of darkness with no warning. Paid to have it whitewashed. Also profited from having it be there. He behaved like a disgusting pig and I'm glad the appeal was denied.
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