bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 13:06:37 GMT 1, I think Im in the minority here but does it bother anyone else that POW prints "extras" that are not numbered with the rest of the edition? I know these are supposedly for replacing damages and what not but IMO once an edition is numbered and closed then that should be the end of it. If they have some shipping damages that they want to replace then they should set some of the numbered extras aside for this purpose. In the US in certain states there are actually laws against this type of thing pertaining to limited edition items.
This recent quote on the DFACE board particularly struck me:
"I went to POW the other week to get my Weston Super Mare Banksy numbered (they originally fogot to number it). Anyway, when I was there they had loads of spare Hates filed. I guess they were for damaged and friends but the Black one looked amazing, gutted to have missed it."
First off "for friends" well if "friends" get an unnumbered part of the run then the number in the publics hands is larger than the advertised edition size.
BUT more importantly the HATE edition is sold out. Why do they still have these on hand? Surely all damages have been replaced by now. I highly doubt these "erxtras" will be destroyed at this point.
I realize there are not alot of unnumbered POW prints floating around out there but regardless when producing limited artwork there should not be any that are not numbered or labeled AP (up to 10% of the run).
I think Im in the minority here but does it bother anyone else that POW prints "extras" that are not numbered with the rest of the edition? I know these are supposedly for replacing damages and what not but IMO once an edition is numbered and closed then that should be the end of it. If they have some shipping damages that they want to replace then they should set some of the numbered extras aside for this purpose. In the US in certain states there are actually laws against this type of thing pertaining to limited edition items.
This recent quote on the DFACE board particularly struck me:
"I went to POW the other week to get my Weston Super Mare Banksy numbered (they originally fogot to number it). Anyway, when I was there they had loads of spare Hates filed. I guess they were for damaged and friends but the Black one looked amazing, gutted to have missed it."
First off "for friends" well if "friends" get an unnumbered part of the run then the number in the publics hands is larger than the advertised edition size.
BUT more importantly the HATE edition is sold out. Why do they still have these on hand? Surely all damages have been replaced by now. I highly doubt these "erxtras" will be destroyed at this point.
I realize there are not alot of unnumbered POW prints floating around out there but regardless when producing limited artwork there should not be any that are not numbered or labeled AP (up to 10% of the run).
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POWs "extra" Prints, by tomhills1 on Feb 10, 2007 13:22:23 GMT 1, it's difficult. there are, at the end of the day, only the amount quoted to be in any edition. the fact that any "spares" exist is irrelevent. until they are qualified with a number, stamp and/or a signature, they don't exist.
phsyically they do but they're like a bastard child, if you get what i mean.
my concern is with a really good point you made. after a short period when the last print has sold out and any damages have satisfactorally been rectified, then i too think any remaining copies should be destroyed to avoid "doubles" creeping into the market at a later date.
i thought the first 20 in most editions went to friends/family etc and any gifts were given having a hand-drawn heart where the number would go.
as time goes on and various print rise further in value, the temptation and risk of foul-play must surely be a larger factor.
could be a major, major issue in years to come.
it's difficult. there are, at the end of the day, only the amount quoted to be in any edition. the fact that any "spares" exist is irrelevent. until they are qualified with a number, stamp and/or a signature, they don't exist.
phsyically they do but they're like a bastard child, if you get what i mean.
my concern is with a really good point you made. after a short period when the last print has sold out and any damages have satisfactorally been rectified, then i too think any remaining copies should be destroyed to avoid "doubles" creeping into the market at a later date.
i thought the first 20 in most editions went to friends/family etc and any gifts were given having a hand-drawn heart where the number would go.
as time goes on and various print rise further in value, the temptation and risk of foul-play must surely be a larger factor.
could be a major, major issue in years to come.
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POWs "extra" Prints, by mammal2 on Feb 10, 2007 14:21:39 GMT 1, I really could not care if they hold spares. They aren't going to sell them anyway. Its a testement to the great service from POW that when or if you get a damaged print, often you get a replacement in days. This = great service. After all guys we are buying basically pieces of paper for over ยฃ200. Thats a lot of cash for anyone. I for one want that piece of mind that if a piece comes fucked I can get a new spanking one straight away. Sure they keep spares over a long period. Imagine if for some strange reason they had to replace one. The cost of setting up the press, getting the artist in, distrubing prints runs of Banksy for example. Who cares! You got yo print. Be Happy!!! Right im off to rob the POW offices. Oi Oi
I really could not care if they hold spares. They aren't going to sell them anyway. Its a testement to the great service from POW that when or if you get a damaged print, often you get a replacement in days. This = great service. After all guys we are buying basically pieces of paper for over ยฃ200. Thats a lot of cash for anyone. I for one want that piece of mind that if a piece comes fucked I can get a new spanking one straight away. Sure they keep spares over a long period. Imagine if for some strange reason they had to replace one. The cost of setting up the press, getting the artist in, distrubing prints runs of Banksy for example. Who cares! You got yo print. Be Happy!!! Right im off to rob the POW offices. Oi Oi
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 14:31:53 GMT 1,
See that shouldnt be an option, it really jeopardizes the integrity of the print run. The print run should be X number produced and after time the number of prints "out there" should diminish by a few through damages and what not. If you have a numbered Warhol that gets damaged should you be able to phone the Estate and get a replacement with the same number? (I dont think most Warhol's are numbered but you get what Im saying).
500 are produced and numbered. They should sell 90% of the run and keep 10% of the numbered edition for damages and such. All this does is protect the integrity of the run. Unnumbered pieces floating around, even behind POW doors, can only lead to problems IMO. This practice of theirs is not typical.
See that shouldnt be an option, it really jeopardizes the integrity of the print run. The print run should be X number produced and after time the number of prints "out there" should diminish by a few through damages and what not. If you have a numbered Warhol that gets damaged should you be able to phone the Estate and get a replacement with the same number? (I dont think most Warhol's are numbered but you get what Im saying).
500 are produced and numbered. They should sell 90% of the run and keep 10% of the numbered edition for damages and such. All this does is protect the integrity of the run. Unnumbered pieces floating around, even behind POW doors, can only lead to problems IMO. This practice of theirs is not typical.
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 14:34:13 GMT 1, And I just lost a "respect point" some how?
Thou shall not question POW.
And I just lost a "respect point" some how? Thou shall not question POW. |
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POWs "extra" Prints, by tomhills1 on Feb 10, 2007 14:46:08 GMT 1, bonesy, do you not agree that is a worthy service to offer a replacement if it gets damged? i do if only in the short-term. get them all sent out, any damages get replaced and then that's it. destroy what's left.
all part of the initial service, after a couple of weeks there will still only be say 500 in that edition - spares left and the returned damages all get shredded!
i for one would be happy with that, then as time goes on those that get damaged through re-sale, cutting to fit a frame (sacralege) or destroyed by fire etc, would lower those in circulation.
imagine you got your favourite upcoming banksy print, signed as well, at retail price and it got damaged in the post? you would thank god and POW that you got a second chance, no?
i hope that doesn't happen but do you see what i'm saying? as long as the spares are desroyed and those that are returned as well, what is the problem?
i'll give you a respect if someone was churlish enough to take one off you. i see things slighty differently to you but i think debate is healthy, you should'nt be put off by saying something someone might not like.
bonesy, do you not agree that is a worthy service to offer a replacement if it gets damged? i do if only in the short-term. get them all sent out, any damages get replaced and then that's it. destroy what's left.
all part of the initial service, after a couple of weeks there will still only be say 500 in that edition - spares left and the returned damages all get shredded!
i for one would be happy with that, then as time goes on those that get damaged through re-sale, cutting to fit a frame (sacralege) or destroyed by fire etc, would lower those in circulation.
imagine you got your favourite upcoming banksy print, signed as well, at retail price and it got damaged in the post? you would thank god and POW that you got a second chance, no?
i hope that doesn't happen but do you see what i'm saying? as long as the spares are desroyed and those that are returned as well, what is the problem?
i'll give you a respect if someone was churlish enough to take one off you. i see things slighty differently to you but i think debate is healthy, you should'nt be put off by saying something someone might not like.
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POWs "extra" Prints, by monkeypuzzle on Feb 10, 2007 14:53:47 GMT 1, I think the complete lack of backdoor prints seen since POW started printing speaks for itself on this matter Bonesy.
I think the complete lack of backdoor prints seen since POW started printing speaks for itself on this matter Bonesy.
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POWs "extra" Prints, by beejoir1 on Feb 10, 2007 15:07:03 GMT 1, The stacks of prints that are sitting around in POW are to be used for replacements, advertising and throwing up on walls at events like santas ghetto, I dont doubt a few are kept for the hell of it, but if you cant do that with your own business what are you allowed to do!
The stacks of prints that are sitting around in POW are to be used for replacements, advertising and throwing up on walls at events like santas ghetto, I dont doubt a few are kept for the hell of it, but if you cant do that with your own business what are you allowed to do!
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POWs "extra" Prints, by corblimeylimey on Feb 10, 2007 15:18:51 GMT 1, As the extras aren't numbered and they only cover initial problems with postage/print mess ups I don't see the problem. I do however see no point in keeping any after the first month or so after selling out, can anyone here explain why they should? after all they're not going to offer an accidental loss or damage replacement service after the initial delivery responsibility.
Any they do keep for display or ghetto etc should be stamped SAMPLE or something just to be on the safe side.
As the extras aren't numbered and they only cover initial problems with postage/print mess ups I don't see the problem. I do however see no point in keeping any after the first month or so after selling out, can anyone here explain why they should? after all they're not going to offer an accidental loss or damage replacement service after the initial delivery responsibility.
Any they do keep for display or ghetto etc should be stamped SAMPLE or something just to be on the safe side.
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 15:36:57 GMT 1, If they were stamped SAMPLE then I would have no problem with pieces kicking around.
I do like the fact that they are able to offer exchanges for damaged pieces. In my opinion that 2nd piece should have a different number though. If #83 is damaged I dont think a new #83 should be issued. Most artists put aside a percentage of the run for damage issues. This is what I think POW should ideally do. Sell 90% and save 10% for these damage issues.
If you have to sell 500 pieces then make 550 and number them out of 550 but only sell 500. This way you have your replacements, you are selling just as many, and everything is labeled.
If they were stamped SAMPLE then I would have no problem with pieces kicking around.
I do like the fact that they are able to offer exchanges for damaged pieces. In my opinion that 2nd piece should have a different number though. If #83 is damaged I dont think a new #83 should be issued. Most artists put aside a percentage of the run for damage issues. This is what I think POW should ideally do. Sell 90% and save 10% for these damage issues.
If you have to sell 500 pieces then make 550 and number them out of 550 but only sell 500. This way you have your replacements, you are selling just as many, and everything is labeled.
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 15:39:03 GMT 1,
Can you elaborate on this?
Are you saying they replaced a damaged print 8 months after purchase that wasnt damaged in the initial shipping?
Can you elaborate on this?
Are you saying they replaced a damaged print 8 months after purchase that wasnt damaged in the initial shipping?
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POWs "extra" Prints, by absyrd on Feb 10, 2007 15:46:34 GMT 1, The difference here is that they are being damaged indirectly BY pow (through packing, shipping, etc). If the print never reaches the hands of the original buyer in perfect condition, how could pow maintain any patrons?
How would you like to order something and have it arrive with the tube smashed and the thing creased in half? You'd pay $600 and take one for the team? I personally wouldn't be happy and I'd reconsider ever ordering again.
If they recorded that the print (by #) was damaged in shipping and didn't replace it but refunded the money, a customer would still be unhappy. Some people do buy them to enjoy.
I like the idea of destroying backups after a set amount of time... maybe like 3 months after they have been sold out and delivered. I like the idea of limiting backups so there is less of a chance of tons floating around.
The difference here is that they are being damaged indirectly BY pow (through packing, shipping, etc). If the print never reaches the hands of the original buyer in perfect condition, how could pow maintain any patrons?
How would you like to order something and have it arrive with the tube smashed and the thing creased in half? You'd pay $600 and take one for the team? I personally wouldn't be happy and I'd reconsider ever ordering again.
If they recorded that the print (by #) was damaged in shipping and didn't replace it but refunded the money, a customer would still be unhappy. Some people do buy them to enjoy.
I like the idea of destroying backups after a set amount of time... maybe like 3 months after they have been sold out and delivered. I like the idea of limiting backups so there is less of a chance of tons floating around.
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 15:47:29 GMT 1,
Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote.
This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition.
I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but....
Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote.
This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition.
I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but....
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POWs "extra" Prints, by corblimeylimey on Feb 10, 2007 15:52:20 GMT 1, Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote. This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition. I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but....
Thay have a list of numbers that are assigned to owners, so they would just be correcting their mistake, if you try walking in with an unnumbered turf war (they have been for sale on ebay) they won't number it.
Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote. This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition. I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but.... Thay have a list of numbers that are assigned to owners, so they would just be correcting their mistake, if you try walking in with an unnumbered turf war (they have been for sale on ebay) they won't number it. |
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POWs "extra" Prints, by corblimeylimey on Feb 10, 2007 15:54:44 GMT 1, POW are good people coreblimey, they help out their customers for the longer term so a deadline is silly. I have experienced that help and the problem they helped me with was in no way their fault and was 8 months after the initial purchase....but they still helped me. The prints do not find their way out of POW so why does it matter & like beejoir says its their business so they're entitled to have 1000 of each print if they really wanted. Many printing houses keep spares for unforseen circumstances.
I didn't realise they offered that kind of service, really is above and beyond what they need to do or anyone can realistically expect, I guess it's hats off to POW.
POW are good people coreblimey, they help out their customers for the longer term so a deadline is silly. I have experienced that help and the problem they helped me with was in no way their fault and was 8 months after the initial purchase....but they still helped me. The prints do not find their way out of POW so why does it matter & like beejoir says its their business so they're entitled to have 1000 of each print if they really wanted. Many printing houses keep spares for unforseen circumstances. I didn't realise they offered that kind of service, really is above and beyond what they need to do or anyone can realistically expect, I guess it's hats off to POW. |
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bonesy
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 15:59:02 GMT 1, Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote. This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition. I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but.... Thay have a list of numbers that are assigned to owners, so they would just be correcting their mistake, if you try walking in with an unnumbered turf war (they have been for sale on ebay) they won't number it.
But if I bought Turf War #243 and sold Turf War #243 then got an unnumbered Turf War I could bring it in and get #243 assigned to it by merely stating it was never numbered.
Further.... I didnt even initially pick up on this part of that initial DFACE quote. This cat went to POW with a print they forgot to number and they numbered it for him. If there are unnumbered prints in existence that they are aware of and not part of the numbered run then how can they randomly number an old Banksy print and make it part of the numbered edition. I find it amazing that Im the only one that sees a problem in any of this. I know the POW folks are good honest peeps but.... Thay have a list of numbers that are assigned to owners, so they would just be correcting their mistake, if you try walking in with an unnumbered turf war (they have been for sale on ebay) they won't number it. But if I bought Turf War #243 and sold Turf War #243 then got an unnumbered Turf War I could bring it in and get #243 assigned to it by merely stating it was never numbered. |
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POWs "extra" Prints, by tomhills1 on Feb 10, 2007 16:08:37 GMT 1, imagine you got your favourite upcoming banksy print, signed as well, at retail price and it got damaged in the post? you would thank god and POW that you got a second chance, no? .
maybe think about this point bonesy? and to add, if this scenario did occur i can guarantee there would not be a replacement avalible under your system to counter this. assume the first 150 (signed) go out, no damage so the remaining 10% get sold and then there is some damage? then what?
if you don't bother selling the last 10% in case one gets damaged then how on earth is it a true edition of 165?
i'd hate to be the one who received a damaged print with no chance of a replacement, expected to be happy with a refund.
as someone said earlier, the amount of backdoor prints coming out of POW speaks for itself.
if #85 gets damged then replaced, it's still #85. it's not like there are 2 with the same number.
imagine you got your favourite upcoming banksy print, signed as well, at retail price and it got damaged in the post? you would thank god and POW that you got a second chance, no? . maybe think about this point bonesy? and to add, if this scenario did occur i can guarantee there would not be a replacement avalible under your system to counter this. assume the first 150 (signed) go out, no damage so the remaining 10% get sold and then there is some damage? then what? if you don't bother selling the last 10% in case one gets damaged then how on earth is it a true edition of 165? i'd hate to be the one who received a damaged print with no chance of a replacement, expected to be happy with a refund. as someone said earlier, the amount of backdoor prints coming out of POW speaks for itself. if #85 gets damged then replaced, it's still #85. it's not like there are 2 with the same number. |
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Curley
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POWs "extra" Prints, by Curley on Feb 10, 2007 17:07:17 GMT 1, I remember a case a while back when there was a copy of Girl with Balloon on ebay and the number was queried as some one else owned the same number. POW had accidently numbered two prints the same and missed one number out completely. The mistake was spotted as they keep proper records and the the correct number was issued and the incorrect print was destroyed in front of the customer. Job done.
If the extras were/are detroyed this could not have been recitfied.
I remember a case a while back when there was a copy of Girl with Balloon on ebay and the number was queried as some one else owned the same number. POW had accidently numbered two prints the same and missed one number out completely. The mistake was spotted as they keep proper records and the the correct number was issued and the incorrect print was destroyed in front of the customer. Job done.
If the extras were/are detroyed this could not have been recitfied.
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raskazz
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October 2006
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POWs "extra" Prints, by raskazz on Feb 10, 2007 17:09:15 GMT 1, This has to be the most pointless thread I have read on here.
This has to be the most pointless thread I have read on here. |
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romanywg
Junior Member
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October 2006
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POWs "extra" Prints, by romanywg on Feb 10, 2007 17:32:20 GMT 1, I for one am glad that they hold some back to replace damaged ones and didn't know about it until someone informed me on this board or I would still have a badly creased Angel.
I for one am glad that they hold some back to replace damaged ones and didn't know about it until someone informed me on this board or I would still have a badly creased Angel.
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POWs "extra" Prints, by mido on Feb 10, 2007 18:28:48 GMT 1, ah, well, you started the discussion off with a major mistake.
you took something someone written as if it is fact.
the first bit may well be fact, re spares of prints (I'm not elaborating!)
but there is no evidence that these spare prints are 'for friends'. That could potentially damage the business and I don't believe POW do that.
don't believe everything you read. there is a MASSIVE difference between over printing some prints and keeping them on your shelves, and prints sloshing around everywhere!!
This recent quote on the DFACE board particularly struck me: "I went to POW the other week to get my Weston Super Mare Banksy numbered (they originally fogot to number it). Anyway, when I was there they had loads of spare Hates filed. I guess they were for damaged and friends but the Black one looked amazing, gutted to have missed it."
ah, well, you started the discussion off with a major mistake. you took something someone written as if it is fact. the first bit may well be fact, re spares of prints (I'm not elaborating!) but there is no evidence that these spare prints are 'for friends'. That could potentially damage the business and I don't believe POW do that. don't believe everything you read. there is a MASSIVE difference between over printing some prints and keeping them on your shelves, and prints sloshing around everywhere!! This recent quote on the DFACE board particularly struck me: "I went to POW the other week to get my Weston Super Mare Banksy numbered (they originally fogot to number it). Anyway, when I was there they had loads of spare Hates filed. I guess they were for damaged and friends but the Black one looked amazing, gutted to have missed it." |
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bonesy
Junior Member
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POWs "extra" Prints, by bonesy on Feb 10, 2007 19:05:44 GMT 1, Your right on the friends thing, I shouldnt take for fact what someone has said. And the extras for replacements argument I can understand (though I would like to see them have different numbers).
But the real thing bothering me is the extras still around after all the possible shipping damages have been taken care of. Having unlabeled extras months after the fact can only lead to problems down the road.
And having a replacement for a damaged 8 months after the sale when it wasnt POW shipping that damaged it I totally dont agree with.
Your right on the friends thing, I shouldnt take for fact what someone has said. And the extras for replacements argument I can understand (though I would like to see them have different numbers).
But the real thing bothering me is the extras still around after all the possible shipping damages have been taken care of. Having unlabeled extras months after the fact can only lead to problems down the road.
And having a replacement for a damaged 8 months after the sale when it wasnt POW shipping that damaged it I totally dont agree with.
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romanywg
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POWs "extra" Prints, by romanywg on Feb 10, 2007 19:33:50 GMT 1, And having a replacement for a damaged 8 months after the sale when it wasnt POW shipping that damaged it I totally dont agree with.
[/quote]
That I don't understand at all!
And having a replacement for a damaged 8 months after the sale when it wasnt POW shipping that damaged it I totally dont agree with.
[/quote]
That I don't understand at all!
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atomcore
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October 2006
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POWs "extra" Prints, by atomcore on Feb 10, 2007 23:18:49 GMT 1, Yes and no.
Yes and no.
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bonesy
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