pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 1:10:08 GMT 1, Hi All -
I'm struggling and trying to understand...
In the past, I have bought art directly from an artist b/c:
1. art was sold out in galleries, so i reached out directly;
2. I assumed (and this may be incorrect - one of my questions) the artist made more money from me buying direct from them EVEN IF if they were selling a piece for the same price as a gallery;
3. I've had the opportunity to purchase a/p's, etc and been fine paying more than the release price (I have paid quite a bit more and been ok).
There is an artist that I've bought directly from in the past (name will remain anonymous, of course). They also have their own website where they sell their pieces for about 25% more than the same pieces being sold in galleries - I assume this was in deference to the galleries that carry their pieces, but now I'm not so sure.
I have never negotiated when an artist is selling directly to me, but now I'm wondering if I should - this is another question I have. I never have engaged with an artist about the price they are asking for their art, even if I've seen their pieces available and less expensive other places.
Last week, I dm'd this artist about an older piece they announced on social media was still available for sale (but have not yet shown on their website as available). The piece is not an AP, was released a few years ago, and is still being sold by number of galleries.
Here's the rub... the gallery prices are in the 600-800 GBP price range and the price the artist quoted me is over 2x this amount!
So now I don't know what to think - my initial reaction was that I was pissed and wanted to stop collecting this artist and sell what I have... I haven't said anything to them, but I want to. I 'm super sensitive about wanting to show respect for artists work, but this threw me a bit.
I know there are complexities brought on by technology that now enables any artist to set up a website and sell directly to the public. I also know this comes with a lot of hurdles and sensitivity if they also sell through galleries... I want to understand more how this issue is currently playing out, what lies ahead, and how that should affect my dealings with galleries and artists directly... Can someone speak to this?
I will save my questions and frustrations regarding purchasing from auction houses for another time lol...
Please advise.
Hi All -
I'm struggling and trying to understand...
In the past, I have bought art directly from an artist b/c:
1. art was sold out in galleries, so i reached out directly;
2. I assumed (and this may be incorrect - one of my questions) the artist made more money from me buying direct from them EVEN IF if they were selling a piece for the same price as a gallery;
3. I've had the opportunity to purchase a/p's, etc and been fine paying more than the release price (I have paid quite a bit more and been ok).
There is an artist that I've bought directly from in the past (name will remain anonymous, of course). They also have their own website where they sell their pieces for about 25% more than the same pieces being sold in galleries - I assume this was in deference to the galleries that carry their pieces, but now I'm not so sure.
I have never negotiated when an artist is selling directly to me, but now I'm wondering if I should - this is another question I have. I never have engaged with an artist about the price they are asking for their art, even if I've seen their pieces available and less expensive other places.
Last week, I dm'd this artist about an older piece they announced on social media was still available for sale (but have not yet shown on their website as available). The piece is not an AP, was released a few years ago, and is still being sold by number of galleries.
Here's the rub... the gallery prices are in the 600-800 GBP price range and the price the artist quoted me is over 2x this amount!
So now I don't know what to think - my initial reaction was that I was pissed and wanted to stop collecting this artist and sell what I have... I haven't said anything to them, but I want to. I 'm super sensitive about wanting to show respect for artists work, but this threw me a bit.
I know there are complexities brought on by technology that now enables any artist to set up a website and sell directly to the public. I also know this comes with a lot of hurdles and sensitivity if they also sell through galleries... I want to understand more how this issue is currently playing out, what lies ahead, and how that should affect my dealings with galleries and artists directly... Can someone speak to this?
I will save my questions and frustrations regarding purchasing from auction houses for another time lol...
Please advise.
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Charlie Bronson
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by Charlie Bronson on Nov 18, 2020 1:32:20 GMT 1, Iโve always found prices are lower when reaching out to the artist. Iโve come across a lot of good deals that way. Theyโre usually a bit sketched out to do it though. Not all, but many. I always make sure the artist knows Iโll use discretion. That seems to put them at ease. Iโve actually been to around a half dozen or so very well known artistโs studios to pick up a piece. Thatโs always a lot of fun.
Iโve always found prices are lower when reaching out to the artist. Iโve come across a lot of good deals that way. Theyโre usually a bit sketched out to do it though. Not all, but many. I always make sure the artist knows Iโll use discretion. That seems to put them at ease. Iโve actually been to around a half dozen or so very well known artistโs studios to pick up a piece. Thatโs always a lot of fun.
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tab1
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pjc
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 4:04:57 GMT 1, Thanks so much for replies... Just to be clear, this is a very well known urban artist - been around for years... UK based.
Thanks so much for replies... Just to be clear, this is a very well known urban artist - been around for years... UK based.
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sfnyc
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August 2017
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by sfnyc on Nov 18, 2020 4:17:56 GMT 1, As said above, pricing above gallery means he is smart and indirectly telling you to deal with the gallery instead. Artists selling below their representative galleries are a big red flag for me. The word gets around and few galleries will want to keep repping them, making slim their chances of having good gallery shows, and little by little they will have lesser and lesser quality galleries willing to work with them.
As said above, pricing above gallery means he is smart and indirectly telling you to deal with the gallery instead. Artists selling below their representative galleries are a big red flag for me. The word gets around and few galleries will want to keep repping them, making slim their chances of having good gallery shows, and little by little they will have lesser and lesser quality galleries willing to work with them.
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vvk
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October 2015
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by vvk on Nov 18, 2020 4:38:46 GMT 1, that "artist" sounds like a Dbag.
that "artist" sounds like a Dbag.
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pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 5:55:04 GMT 1, As said above, pricing above gallery means he is smart and indirectly telling you to deal with the gallery instead. Artists selling below their representative galleries are a big red flag for me. The word gets around and few galleries will want to keep repping them, making slim their chances of having good gallery shows, and little by little they will have lesser and lesser quality galleries willing to work with them.
As said above, pricing above gallery means he is smart and indirectly telling you to deal with the gallery instead. Artists selling below their representative galleries are a big red flag for me. The word gets around and few galleries will want to keep repping them, making slim their chances of having good gallery shows, and little by little they will have lesser and lesser quality galleries willing to work with them. Agree and I acknowledge - so street/urban art now follows the same machinations as the rest of the art world? Just asking, b/c that was not the motivation of this genre as I understand it? Iโm talking about a private deal between two people when, the street artist, whom Iโve supported in the past, is asking me to pay two times the going rate when they are soliciting buyers to their website or to them personally via DM... why not direct interested buyers to gallery reps if I were to follow that reasoning? I own and buy many other types of art, but one of the things that attracted me to this genre was at least the overt resistance to the โbougieโ art world and the old way โdeals were doneโ...STREET/urban art buying/โcollectingโ (I hate the word โcollectingโ b/c anyone that is not independently wealthy is choosing to do without something else in order to โbuyโ a piece of art) should benefit from todayโs advances and be able to sell directly to their fans... SFNYC - Iโve benefited from your feedback on previous posts and I appreciate you taking the time to reply - the world of certain street artists is fast becoming a world beyond which many of us can continue to participate - and one which certain artist need to come to terms with (not knocking them, but time to acknowledge)... |
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sfnyc
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by sfnyc on Nov 18, 2020 6:50:03 GMT 1, Some artists are also just pretentious douches... (forgot to mention that major option too). Idk to be honest here why he wouldnt tell you to reach x at such and such gallery as well unless he s in the process of switching representation- but then again that's evidently rude.
I have some suspicions on whom you re talking about...
Some artists are also just pretentious douches... (forgot to mention that major option too). Idk to be honest here why he wouldnt tell you to reach x at such and such gallery as well unless he s in the process of switching representation- but then again that's evidently rude.
I have some suspicions on whom you re talking about...
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pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 7:13:15 GMT 1, Some artists are also just pretentious douches... (forgot to mention that major option too). Idk to be honest here why he wouldnt tell you to reach x at such and such gallery as well unless he s in the process of switching representation- but then again that's evidently rude. I have some suspicions on whom you re talking about...
Thx - for the record, I really am trying to use this as a learning experience and not a pretense to โoutโ anyone... That would be the easy way out as I see it. Thx again.
p.s. I do see the gallery v artist direct selling as something that will only get more complicated as time goes on / technology advances - no matter the genre... buckle up.
Some artists are also just pretentious douches... (forgot to mention that major option too). Idk to be honest here why he wouldnt tell you to reach x at such and such gallery as well unless he s in the process of switching representation- but then again that's evidently rude. I have some suspicions on whom you re talking about... Thx - for the record, I really am trying to use this as a learning experience and not a pretense to โoutโ anyone... That would be the easy way out as I see it. Thx again. p.s. I do see the gallery v artist direct selling as something that will only get more complicated as time goes on / technology advances - no matter the genre... buckle up. |
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pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 7:21:16 GMT 1, Galleries are like record labels. Some artists get exposure at galleries and galleries take half the money. Some larger galleries cause artist to rise to the next tier of prices, and it benefits them both.
D - Iโve been dying to ask you since I joined this summer, but never found the appropriate time - do you spell your name incorrectly on purpose? All love ๐๐๐ - but dying to know the back story...
Galleries are like record labels. Some artists get exposure at galleries and galleries take half the money. Some larger galleries cause artist to rise to the next tier of prices, and it benefits them both. D - Iโve been dying to ask you since I joined this summer, but never found the appropriate time - do you spell your name incorrectly on purpose? All love ๐๐๐ - but dying to know the back story... |
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sfnyc
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August 2017
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by sfnyc on Nov 18, 2020 7:33:34 GMT 1, I agree with you that the way things are done in the art market is a bit outdated and the role of galleries can be ambiguous, given how many don't follow the same approach or vision about art. But galleries are as diverse as artist, and the bigger they are the least innovating they tend to be.
But there are many good gallerists out there that truly care about their artists and want to fight the blend market status quo. Few galleries actually make money, so I think it's very important to support galleries that share your vision, taste and truly support artists you like as well - and not just buy directly from the individual artists. Try to speak with the gallery owners or curators when you can, even just when enquiring about an artist you already collect to see if your visions are similar or not and if the gallery believes in the same things you do.
I agree with you that the way things are done in the art market is a bit outdated and the role of galleries can be ambiguous, given how many don't follow the same approach or vision about art. But galleries are as diverse as artist, and the bigger they are the least innovating they tend to be.
But there are many good gallerists out there that truly care about their artists and want to fight the blend market status quo. Few galleries actually make money, so I think it's very important to support galleries that share your vision, taste and truly support artists you like as well - and not just buy directly from the individual artists. Try to speak with the gallery owners or curators when you can, even just when enquiring about an artist you already collect to see if your visions are similar or not and if the gallery believes in the same things you do.
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gd79
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September 2015
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by gd79 on Nov 18, 2020 9:50:32 GMT 1, There is one thing I am unclear about - you say his work is available is a *number of galleries*. Are they in different countries?
Typically this goes against the usual model - the gallery is the exclusive seller of the artist, and that brings all the advantages described above. Working capital, guidance, exposure etc.
If the works are being sold by multiple galleries, the same model doesn't apply. I also can't think of many artists where this would be the case for primary work (not resold)
There is one thing I am unclear about - you say his work is available is a *number of galleries*. Are they in different countries?
Typically this goes against the usual model - the gallery is the exclusive seller of the artist, and that brings all the advantages described above. Working capital, guidance, exposure etc.
If the works are being sold by multiple galleries, the same model doesn't apply. I also can't think of many artists where this would be the case for primary work (not resold)
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pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 17:06:58 GMT 1, There is one thing I am unclear about - you say his work is available is a *number of galleries*. Are they in different countries? Typically this goes against the usual model - the gallery is the exclusive seller of the artist, and that brings all the advantages described above. Working capital, guidance, exposure etc. If the works are being sold by multiple galleries, the same model doesn't apply. I also can't think of many artists where this would be the case for primary work (not resold)
There is one thing I am unclear about - you say his work is available is a *number of galleries*. Are they in different countries? Typically this goes against the usual model - the gallery is the exclusive seller of the artist, and that brings all the advantages described above. Working capital, guidance, exposure etc. If the works are being sold by multiple galleries, the same model doesn't apply. I also can't think of many artists where this would be the case for primary work (not resold) maybe i'm not understanding 'sold' v 'repped' by gallery. take for example the POW artists, i can find almost all of them being sold by various galleries - whether this is 'resold' or 'repped' - i don't know the difference unless they where in 'charge' of the release, then i understand the relationship... using that group as an example, i assumed, but now i see, that the galleries may be buying and reselling their art, not getting it directly from artist (which i guess i assumed to be the case)... either way, those artists must know what price their works are being sold for at these galleries, they are the same players in this genre... this is the type of artist i'm speaking of... not some new up and coming artist that the gallery supports and puts on the map. |
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pjc
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July 2020
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by pjc on Nov 18, 2020 17:11:09 GMT 1, and to follow on to my response to gd79, if you know galleries are just buying and reselling, vs. forging relationships w/ artists, does that change how you view a gallery, or is this 'typical' (i would think it depends on the type of art and artist being sold, but that's why i'm here and asking)... i just assumed most were getting the art they sell directly from the artists (or buying back from customers who are purchasing something else or consigning)...
and to follow on to my response to gd79, if you know galleries are just buying and reselling, vs. forging relationships w/ artists, does that change how you view a gallery, or is this 'typical' (i would think it depends on the type of art and artist being sold, but that's why i'm here and asking)... i just assumed most were getting the art they sell directly from the artists (or buying back from customers who are purchasing something else or consigning)...
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gd79
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PLEASE EXPLAIN - PRICING - Gallery vs Direct From Artists, by gd79 on Nov 18, 2020 17:39:12 GMT 1, There is certainly room for both kinds of gallery. The really interesting stuff will only come from the places with their own 'stable' of artists (though they will also do a bit of other stuff on the side). Ultimately, I could set up a gallery trading secondary work right now... Cultivating and promoting new talent is a different skill.
If the artist is exclusive to a gallery, it's unlikely they would sell work directly to you. As mentioned above, it suits everyone for the gallery to be involved, and it is on breach of their contract.
Ultimately artists don't necessarily make good businesspeople/ marketeers/ salespeople (though when they do, you end up with a super star!).
So there is no problem with them selling the work direct. I agree though, they are presumably aware of resale values and I can't see why they would price substantially higher. Especially for someone clearly involved and with a stake in their work. Sounds odd.
Is it possible there is hand finishing or any other difference to the work vs. the gallery pieces? Other than AP Vs main edition, which isn't worth much.
Good luck in any case. Hopefully there is a misunderstanding somewhere.
There is certainly room for both kinds of gallery. The really interesting stuff will only come from the places with their own 'stable' of artists (though they will also do a bit of other stuff on the side). Ultimately, I could set up a gallery trading secondary work right now... Cultivating and promoting new talent is a different skill.
If the artist is exclusive to a gallery, it's unlikely they would sell work directly to you. As mentioned above, it suits everyone for the gallery to be involved, and it is on breach of their contract.
Ultimately artists don't necessarily make good businesspeople/ marketeers/ salespeople (though when they do, you end up with a super star!).
So there is no problem with them selling the work direct. I agree though, they are presumably aware of resale values and I can't see why they would price substantially higher. Especially for someone clearly involved and with a stake in their work. Sounds odd.
Is it possible there is hand finishing or any other difference to the work vs. the gallery pieces? Other than AP Vs main edition, which isn't worth much.
Good luck in any case. Hopefully there is a misunderstanding somewhere.
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