elisajafa
New Member
Posts โข 285
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March 2021
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by elisajafa on May 31, 2021 17:03:06 GMT 1, Hello,
The goal here is to make the ultimate guide for VAT refunds in France ๐ช (and this can maybe also help people in other countries if the forms are similar).
I know there are a lot of threads regarding VAT refund but not especially for us french people.
So do someone know how to fill this form called "Demande de remise ou de remboursement" for a private individual (there are so many fields to fill !) ? :
www.douane.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2019-03/modele-de-demande-de-remboursement-ou-remise-de-droits.pdf
And do this form applies whatever the delivery service was (FedEx, UPS, DHL, La Poste, etc.) ?
Do we have to attach some proofs besides the VAT delivery service invoice ?
And, especially for sculptures (examples : all Kaws figures, all Arsham Future Relics, all Murakami Dob Kuns, etc), do you know what to indicate to get around the statement that says that if the edition is more than 8, then the sculpture is not considerated as a work of art so 20% VAT is applied and not 5% (in that case, is it better to indicate something else than sculpture then, and, if so, what ?) ? (For more information about this limitation of edition of 8, see that post and the replies : urbanartassociation.com/post/2091793/thread).
Thing is I'm totally lost and I have to deal with around 3500โฌ of VAT coming from around 20 differents items (sculptures, prints, etc), knowing that I paid in almost all cases 20% VAT and not 5% VAT (for example : 500โฌ VAT for my 2100โฌ Futura2000 fl-006).
So please, are there here some experts who can help lost people like me (if it's more easy for the understanding, you can reply in french, as maybe frenchs customs use a specific vocabulary...) ?
Hello, The goal here is to make the ultimate guide for VAT refunds in France ๐ช (and this can maybe also help people in other countries if the forms are similar). I know there are a lot of threads regarding VAT refund but not especially for us french people. So do someone know how to fill this form called "Demande de remise ou de remboursement" for a private individual (there are so many fields to fill !) ? : www.douane.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2019-03/modele-de-demande-de-remboursement-ou-remise-de-droits.pdfAnd do this form applies whatever the delivery service was (FedEx, UPS, DHL, La Poste, etc.) ? Do we have to attach some proofs besides the VAT delivery service invoice ? And, especially for sculptures (examples : all Kaws figures, all Arsham Future Relics, all Murakami Dob Kuns, etc), do you know what to indicate to get around the statement that says that if the edition is more than 8, then the sculpture is not considerated as a work of art so 20% VAT is applied and not 5% (in that case, is it better to indicate something else than sculpture then, and, if so, what ?) ? (For more information about this limitation of edition of 8, see that post and the replies : urbanartassociation.com/post/2091793/thread). Thing is I'm totally lost and I have to deal with around 3500โฌ of VAT coming from around 20 differents items (sculptures, prints, etc), knowing that I paid in almost all cases 20% VAT and not 5% VAT (for example : 500โฌ VAT for my 2100โฌ Futura2000 fl-006). So please, are there here some experts who can help lost people like me (if it's more easy for the understanding, you can reply in french, as maybe frenchs customs use a specific vocabulary...) ? |
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sfnyc
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,111
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Member is Online
August 2017
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by sfnyc on May 31, 2021 17:56:38 GMT 1, French customs like to charge excessive vat and never refund you... I only know of bad stories dealing with French customs, their VAT refunds are urban legends...
French customs like to charge excessive vat and never refund you... I only know of bad stories dealing with French customs, their VAT refunds are urban legends...
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Morfx
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,705
Likes โข 2,832
May 2013
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by Morfx on May 31, 2021 18:01:08 GMT 1, Could @lroy help??
Could @lroy help??
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hippychick
New Member
Posts โข 151
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March 2013
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by hippychick on May 31, 2021 20:05:08 GMT 1, Not all art is eligible for reduced rate VAT so you would need to demonstrate that the incorrect tariff code had been applied for each item that you want to claim a refund for.
It's not that the edition size being bigger than 8 for statues means that it's not art, it means that it is considered as being mass-produced/commercial. For prints it isn't about the edition size but more about the method of production - so hand-pulled limited edition screenprints fall under the reduced VAT but limited edition giclees or mechanically produced screenprints don't.
France uses the Harmonized System to determine whether something is eligible for reduced rate VAT (same as the rest of the EU, the UK and pretty much most places). Customs Tariff Number Chapter 97 . Heading 9703 (for statues) "does not apply to mass-produced reproductions or works of conventional craftsmanship of a commercial character, even if these articles are designed or created by artists." Looking at the examples you have given, they wouldn't be eligible for reduced rate VAT - and I can't find any commodity code that would fit and give the reduced rate.
Someone else may have found a workaround to the commodity codes though and, on a positive note, the HS tariff descriptions (and which ones lead to reduced rates of VAT) apply across most countries so you won't be relying on French speakers / VAT experts for help with this.
Without the right codes, you won't even be able to start putting forward an argument for a refund (that applies everywhere). If you manage to find something to demonstrate that the wrong codes were used and these are eligible for reduced VAT (and I think that is a very big "if") then I am sure that someone with better French than mine will be able to help you with the forms. Hope this helps 
Not all art is eligible for reduced rate VAT so you would need to demonstrate that the incorrect tariff code had been applied for each item that you want to claim a refund for. It's not that the edition size being bigger than 8 for statues means that it's not art, it means that it is considered as being mass-produced/commercial. For prints it isn't about the edition size but more about the method of production - so hand-pulled limited edition screenprints fall under the reduced VAT but limited edition giclees or mechanically produced screenprints don't. France uses the Harmonized System to determine whether something is eligible for reduced rate VAT (same as the rest of the EU, the UK and pretty much most places). Customs Tariff Number Chapter 97 . Heading 9703 (for statues) " does not apply to mass-produced reproductions or works of conventional craftsmanship of a commercial character, even if these articles are designed or created by artists." Looking at the examples you have given, they wouldn't be eligible for reduced rate VAT - and I can't find any commodity code that would fit and give the reduced rate. Someone else may have found a workaround to the commodity codes though and, on a positive note, the HS tariff descriptions (and which ones lead to reduced rates of VAT) apply across most countries so you won't be relying on French speakers / VAT experts for help with this. Without the right codes, you won't even be able to start putting forward an argument for a refund (that applies everywhere). If you manage to find something to demonstrate that the wrong codes were used and these are eligible for reduced VAT (and I think that is a very big "if") then I am sure that someone with better French than mine will be able to help you with the forms. Hope this helps |
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by Lroy on May 31, 2021 20:14:24 GMT 1,
Very complicated indeed.
Anyway, I just understood something these days ( nothing to do with vat etc ) : why now galeries send even a little letter by DHL, FedEx, Ups ?
Because they has really preferential prices and arrangements with customs...
So, they tax buyers ( shipping customs etc )
It was not like this before ..
What a mess !
Very complicated indeed. Anyway, I just understood something these days ( nothing to do with vat etc ) : why now galeries send even a little letter by DHL, FedEx, Ups ? Because they has really preferential prices and arrangements with customs... So, they tax buyers ( shipping customs etc ) It was not like this before .. What a mess ! |
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hippychick
New Member
Posts โข 151
Likes โข 218
March 2013
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I need your help (for customs VAT refund), french edition !, by hippychick on May 31, 2021 20:35:05 GMT 1, Very complicated indeed. Anyway, I just understood something these days ( nothing to do with vat etc ) : why now galeries send even a little letter by DHL, FedEx, Ups ? Because they has really preferential prices and arrangements with customs... So, they tax buyers ( shipping customs etc ) It was not like this before .. What a mess !
So if a print is described as "art print" instead of "hand-pulled, limited edition screenprint" the couriers have to put it through customs as a print/poster and it gets charged the full VAT. The same problem happens if something is described as "merchandise" (yup, that's happened to me before!). That also makes it harder for buyers to challenge the import VAT decision as the customs declaration description doesn't match the sales receipts etc.
If the buyer can communicate with the seller before shipping to let them know what to put on the customs declaration (within reason of course - you can't ask them to just put anything ๐) that (theoretically) takes the decision making process out of the hands of the courier. If the declaration says "9702000090 VATR hand-pulled limited edition screenprint @5% VAT" with all the info repeated in the correct boxes then it should be charged correctly (UK example there but the principle is the same for other countries). It doesn't always work but there is more chance of the correct rate being applied..
One of the problems is if galleries are shipping lots of pieces (e.g. after a drop) and they want to make the process of printing shipping labels easy, so they default to as little detail as possible - which works out worse for the buyer.
Very complicated indeed. Anyway, I just understood something these days ( nothing to do with vat etc ) : why now galeries send even a little letter by DHL, FedEx, Ups ? Because they has really preferential prices and arrangements with customs... So, they tax buyers ( shipping customs etc ) It was not like this before .. What a mess ! I think another part of the problem is galleries / sellers not understanding the impact of using the wrong commodity code or not describing the item correctly on the customs form. So if a print is described as "art print" instead of "hand-pulled, limited edition screenprint" the couriers have to put it through customs as a print/poster and it gets charged the full VAT. The same problem happens if something is described as "merchandise" (yup, that's happened to me before!). That also makes it harder for buyers to challenge the import VAT decision as the customs declaration description doesn't match the sales receipts etc. If the buyer can communicate with the seller before shipping to let them know what to put on the customs declaration (within reason of course - you can't ask them to just put anything ๐) that (theoretically) takes the decision making process out of the hands of the courier. If the declaration says "9702000090 VATR hand-pulled limited edition screenprint @5% VAT" with all the info repeated in the correct boxes then it should be charged correctly (UK example there but the principle is the same for other countries). It doesn't always work but there is more chance of the correct rate being applied.. One of the problems is if galleries are shipping lots of pieces (e.g. after a drop) and they want to make the process of printing shipping labels easy, so they default to as little detail as possible - which works out worse for the buyer. |
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