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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 16:16:35 GMT 1, I kept my eye on the Os Gemeos painting that I referenced above. The painting was passed at Phillips yesterday which of means that the Os Gameos market remains at £0 in 2023. When Banksy came to NYC in 2013 and wanted to collaborate on large scale original outdoor paintings and the cover of the Village Voice Newspaper with the top urban artists in the world - he chose Os Gemeos for their standing in the urban art movement - not how their secondary market prices have fluctuated through the years - which by the way have reached over $300,000 in 2016 and they are represented by one of the top galleries Lehmann Maupin plus their murals throughout the world are absolutely stunning !
I loved the collaboration between Banksy and Os Gemeos as well as their mural work in New York. Os Gemeos are an absolute favourite of mine. The data simply shows that the Os Gemeos auction market has registered £0 in 2023. This thread is a discussion of what people are and are not buying in 2023.
I kept my eye on the Os Gemeos painting that I referenced above. The painting was passed at Phillips yesterday which of means that the Os Gameos market remains at £0 in 2023. When Banksy came to NYC in 2013 and wanted to collaborate on large scale original outdoor paintings and the cover of the Village Voice Newspaper with the top urban artists in the world - he chose Os Gemeos for their standing in the urban art movement - not how their secondary market prices have fluctuated through the years - which by the way have reached over $300,000 in 2016 and they are represented by one of the top galleries Lehmann Maupin plus their murals throughout the world are absolutely stunning ! I loved the collaboration between Banksy and Os Gemeos as well as their mural work in New York. Os Gemeos are an absolute favourite of mine. The data simply shows that the Os Gemeos auction market has registered £0 in 2023. This thread is a discussion of what people are and are not buying in 2023. |
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Cardiff
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Art as an investment , by Cardiff on Jul 1, 2023 20:51:35 GMT 1, It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often.
It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often.
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 21:12:29 GMT 1, It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often.
This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%.
On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion.
It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often. This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%. On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion. |
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Harveyn
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Art as an investment , by Harveyn on Jul 1, 2023 22:58:51 GMT 1, It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often. This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%. On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion.
This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on.
Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell.
I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!!
It's less to me about a lack of demand/popularity and more to me about a lack of availability...quality OSG works don't come up for sale often. This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%. On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion. This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on. Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell. I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!! |
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 23:16:06 GMT 1, This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%. On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion. This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on. Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell. I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!!
I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights.
This is a good perspective. A data driven approach shows that only one Os Gemeos work has come to auction in 2023. The sole piece to date in 2023 is the very high quality 2 metre by 3 metre painting that was available at Phillips last week and passed.The sell through rate for Os Gemeos in 2023 is 0%. On the flip-side the data from 2022 shows more activity and points to a 100% sell through rate and a turnover of £509k for Os Gemeos. In 2021 turnover for Os Gemeos was only £14k and the sell through rate was lower at 40%. Your point could be validated or invalidated through further analysis of the sort of Os Gemeos works that were passed in 2021 because it is a high proportion. This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on. Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell. I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!! I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights. |
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Harveyn
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Art as an investment , by Harveyn on Jul 1, 2023 23:21:21 GMT 1, This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on. Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell. I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!! I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights.
Definitely worth doing but my point was not specifically about OS Gemeos. I do not own any of their works and have not followed their market so I have no idea of their commercial performance in relation to investment.
I think they are incredible artists and the streets of the world are a better place as a result of their work.
This place is obsessed with daily changes in auction results of artists. Trends for established artists are viewed over years. If you are investing in art you cannot take such a short term view. There are also many other factors to consider from timing, condition, auction house, marketing, financial climate, subject matter, external manipulation and the list goes on. Its far more complex than simply looking at the last auction result and crying Buy or Sell. I am reminded of a very famous Basquiat that was owned by Bowie (Air Power). It sold in 1989 for $350k shortly after his death. Bowie then bought it 6 years later for $132k. Lastly it was sold in 2016 for £7m. I thesis in itself!!! I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights. Definitely worth doing but my point was not specifically about OS Gemeos. I do not own any of their works and have not followed their market so I have no idea of their commercial performance in relation to investment. I think they are incredible artists and the streets of the world are a better place as a result of their work. |
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 23:24:26 GMT 1, I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights. Definitely worth doing but my point was not specifically about OS Gemeos. I do not own any of their works and have not followed their market so I have no idea of their commercial performance in relation to investment. I think they are incredible artists and the streets of the world are a better place as a result of their work.
I completely agree with your sentiments about Os Gemeos. Their work on the street is just magical. I am always slightly more drawn to their earlier human scale work in Sao Paulo as opposed to their later massive murals around the globe. Their depictions in Sao Paulo felt like they were alive. It was groundbreaking work.
I agree with your points. The first public auction record for Os Gemeos dates back to 2007. I can conduct a longer term 16 year analysis of the Os Gemeos market and go more in depth into the performance of individual works and categories of works. The passed Os Gemeos painting at Phillips last week did actually receive enhanced marketing in the form of a video feature and lot essay but to no avail. The data shows that auction turnover for Os Gemoes to date in 2023 is £0 and the sell through rate is 0%. The fuller analysis over 16 years will be interesting and will bring further insights. Definitely worth doing but my point was not specifically about OS Gemeos. I do not own any of their works and have not followed their market so I have no idea of their commercial performance in relation to investment. I think they are incredible artists and the streets of the world are a better place as a result of their work. I completely agree with your sentiments about Os Gemeos. Their work on the street is just magical. I am always slightly more drawn to their earlier human scale work in Sao Paulo as opposed to their later massive murals around the globe. Their depictions in Sao Paulo felt like they were alive. It was groundbreaking work. |
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Art as an investment , by Art Collector 11 on Jul 1, 2023 23:24:49 GMT 1, I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic.
I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic.
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 23:35:07 GMT 1, I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic.
Which list do you mean? If it is the empirically derived list the data indicates that to date in 2023 auction turnover for BAST is £0. BAST would be added in at the bottom next to Os Gemeos. In 2022 turnover for BAST was £4k with a 84% sell through rate and in 2021 turnover was £3k with a 50% sell through rate.
I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Which list do you mean? If it is the empirically derived list the data indicates that to date in 2023 auction turnover for BAST is £0. BAST would be added in at the bottom next to Os Gemeos. In 2022 turnover for BAST was £4k with a 84% sell through rate and in 2021 turnover was £3k with a 50% sell through rate. |
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Art as an investment , by Art Collector 11 on Jul 2, 2023 1:15:56 GMT 1, Where did this “data” come from just curious, source is everything.
Is this derived from one auction houses sales or the many auction houses, art galleries and historical s from private sales. If this is the case I’m sure the data would look completely different.
Where did this “data” come from just curious, source is everything.
Is this derived from one auction houses sales or the many auction houses, art galleries and historical s from private sales. If this is the case I’m sure the data would look completely different.
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 2, 2023 8:50:53 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different.
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Art as an investment , by warsaw project on Jul 2, 2023 12:33:08 GMT 1, I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic.
I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Don't remember the collaboration between bast and sickboy, have you got any info I'd love to see ? |
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orchid
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Art as an investment , by orchid on Jul 2, 2023 13:34:43 GMT 1, A few passes but some otherwise strong results from contemporary auctions recently at Christies, Phillips and Sothebys given time of year, seems that confidence is returning, I think 'bargains' will start drying up through this year.
A few passes but some otherwise strong results from contemporary auctions recently at Christies, Phillips and Sothebys given time of year, seems that confidence is returning, I think 'bargains' will start drying up through this year.
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Art as an investment , by Gucci Da Glacier on Jul 2, 2023 21:36:46 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago. |
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 2, 2023 22:54:41 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago.
You are completely correct. The data excludes results from Catawiki and also eBay. I think that this could be because neither Catawiki or eBay keep a permanent public record of results.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago. You are completely correct. The data excludes results from Catawiki and also eBay. I think that this could be because neither Catawiki or eBay keep a permanent public record of results. |
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nobokov
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Art as an investment , by nobokov on Jul 3, 2023 20:05:23 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127
"The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market."
news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174 |
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 3, 2023 20:21:25 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174
The article made a mistake in the sensational headline. The Bernard Meadows was actually £127 and not $127!
www.phillips.com/detail/bernard-meadows/UK010423/79
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174The article made a mistake in the sensational headline. The Bernard Meadows was actually £127 and not $127! www.phillips.com/detail/bernard-meadows/UK010423/79 |
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drbf
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Art as an investment , by drbf on Jul 3, 2023 22:14:14 GMT 1, Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction
Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction
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Art as an investment , by Lord Elrond on Jul 4, 2023 9:16:54 GMT 1, Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction
The canaries in the coal mine?
Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction The canaries in the coal mine? |
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Art as an investment , by its all about me on Jul 4, 2023 10:51:00 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow! |
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orchid
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Art as an investment , by orchid on Jul 4, 2023 14:23:40 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow!
'Global auction sales from Christie’s, Sotheby’s and Phillips decreased 18% during the first 6 months in 2023, with auction sales ending up at $5.8 billion (including buyer’s premium), compared to $7.1 billion in H1 2022. Although signs of a cooling market, this is not a market in free-fall. Sales totals were still in line with H1 2021 and slightly above pre-pandemic levels seen in H1 2019.' (art tactic report)
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow! Exactly....I think people expect year on year large upward trends. 'Global auction sales from Christie’s, Sotheby’s and Phillips decreased 18% during the first 6 months in 2023, with auction sales ending up at $5.8 billion (including buyer’s premium), compared to $7.1 billion in H1 2022. Although signs of a cooling market, this is not a market in free-fall. Sales totals were still in line with H1 2021 and slightly above pre-pandemic levels seen in H1 2019.' (art tactic report) |
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Art as an investment , by Artie Reyt on Jul 13, 2023 12:24:56 GMT 1, One thing a lot of the crystal ball gazer economists have forgotten to consider is the political cycle, two of the worlds biggest art markets (US/UK) have elections the back end of 2024 to early 25. I’d be willing to wager that there’ll be significant stimulus timed to coincide with these elections and both economies will move, no incumbent government wants voters going to polls feeling poorer. That’s why we are absorbing economic pain now so they can then loosen the reins in time for the elections. Based on this I expect a strong recovery in a number of markets starting in early-mid 2024. This also is in line with the fact inflation and energy prices are likely to have normalized by then. To respectfully offer a response to this, the US has already had its stimulus and it has worked in terms of job creation, but had the unintended consequence of inflation. A tax break before the election would have to be in the February 2024 budget, and while it would make political sense for Biden, it wouldn't make economic sense if it risked feeding inflation just at the point that it had been squeezed out of the system. He might make a middle-class tax cut a retail offer in his campaign if economic conditions allow.
As for the UK, where to start? There is simply no money for a stimulus: borrowing is already high and interest payments on what we owe are rising. Our economic pain is of the longer-term, perhaps even chronic, variety. I'd agree with those suggesting that the UK art market is at the wrong end of an understandable adjustment of priorities.
One thing a lot of the crystal ball gazer economists have forgotten to consider is the political cycle, two of the worlds biggest art markets (US/UK) have elections the back end of 2024 to early 25. I’d be willing to wager that there’ll be significant stimulus timed to coincide with these elections and both economies will move, no incumbent government wants voters going to polls feeling poorer. That’s why we are absorbing economic pain now so they can then loosen the reins in time for the elections. Based on this I expect a strong recovery in a number of markets starting in early-mid 2024. This also is in line with the fact inflation and energy prices are likely to have normalized by then. To respectfully offer a response to this, the US has already had its stimulus and it has worked in terms of job creation, but had the unintended consequence of inflation. A tax break before the election would have to be in the February 2024 budget, and while it would make political sense for Biden, it wouldn't make economic sense if it risked feeding inflation just at the point that it had been squeezed out of the system. He might make a middle-class tax cut a retail offer in his campaign if economic conditions allow. As for the UK, where to start? There is simply no money for a stimulus: borrowing is already high and interest payments on what we owe are rising. Our economic pain is of the longer-term, perhaps even chronic, variety. I'd agree with those suggesting that the UK art market is at the wrong end of an understandable adjustment of priorities.
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nobokov
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Art as an investment , by its all about me on Jul 14, 2023 10:44:13 GMT 1, On the contrary, doesn't that mean this is an excellent time for buying art; at least at auction anyway.
On the contrary, doesn't that mean this is an excellent time for buying art; at least at auction anyway. |
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snoozy
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Art as an investment , by snoozy on Jul 14, 2023 12:14:10 GMT 1, Surely if you want to buy something you like, something you want to hang on the wall and enjoy, there must be some great bargains out there.
Surely if you want to buy something you like, something you want to hang on the wall and enjoy, there must be some great bargains out there.
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Art as an investment , by Gucci Da Glacier on Jul 14, 2023 15:12:32 GMT 1, I just buy what I like. The art market has been in a steady decline whether people want to deny it or not so there are much better investments than most art especially with the stock market roaring lately. That’s why they say to buy what you like.
I just buy what I like. The art market has been in a steady decline whether people want to deny it or not so there are much better investments than most art especially with the stock market roaring lately. That’s why they say to buy what you like.
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Art as an investment , by Display_arts on Jul 14, 2023 15:38:16 GMT 1, I really don’t get it.
You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom.
If you do it the other way around you lose money.
It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view.
Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom.
I really don’t get it.
You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom.
If you do it the other way around you lose money.
It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view.
Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom.
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nobokov
Junior Member
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February 2016
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Art as an investment , by nobokov on Jul 14, 2023 19:58:11 GMT 1, I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Everything is still overpriced. So even though it feels like a bottom because people can't even sell prints at cost, the bottom will only be when resale prices are 90% off and if primary prices go back to what they were in 2016.
Galleries and printshops got too greedy and now they'll pay the price along with flippers who thought that there would be a resale market for $5000 prints. But still my emails are still inundated with weekly edition releases with unique scribbles and paint blobs.
I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Everything is still overpriced. So even though it feels like a bottom because people can't even sell prints at cost, the bottom will only be when resale prices are 90% off and if primary prices go back to what they were in 2016.
Galleries and printshops got too greedy and now they'll pay the price along with flippers who thought that there would be a resale market for $5000 prints. But still my emails are still inundated with weekly edition releases with unique scribbles and paint blobs.
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drbf
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Art as an investment , by drbf on Jul 14, 2023 20:14:23 GMT 1, I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom.
I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Should keep NVDA, will reach 500+ |
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