robo
Junior Member
Posts • 1,578
Likes • 1,003
November 2006
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by robo on May 13, 2023 18:16:42 GMT 1, Been collecting for many years and Avant Arte has the best packaging I’ve ever seen.
Definitely beats the 3 Banksys I once purchased rolled together in a single POW tube. 😂
Been collecting for many years and Avant Arte has the best packaging I’ve ever seen.
Definitely beats the 3 Banksys I once purchased rolled together in a single POW tube. 😂
|
|
Avant Arte
Art Gallery
New Member
Posts • 152
Likes • 575
September 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Avant Arte on May 17, 2023 9:09:09 GMT 1, Checked with our team and the phosphorescent powder does indeed need to charge under the influence of UV radiation. Though they also told me that the crabs are meant to have more of a subtle glow so perhaps you're already seeing the full effect.
Checked with our team and the phosphorescent powder does indeed need to charge under the influence of UV radiation. Though they also told me that the crabs are meant to have more of a subtle glow so perhaps you're already seeing the full effect.
|
|
robo
Junior Member
Posts • 1,578
Likes • 1,003
November 2006
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by robo on May 17, 2023 22:40:13 GMT 1, Sounds like if you frame it under museum glass (99% UV protection) you will probably never see the effect. Never mind - print stands up without it!
Sounds like if you frame it under museum glass (99% UV protection) you will probably never see the effect. Never mind - print stands up without it!
|
|
Dinin
New Member
Posts • 58
Likes • 32
December 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Dinin on May 18, 2023 23:49:12 GMT 1, Went for the Middle Finger in Black as I felt it was the more iconic image, but having seen some of the pics of Free Speech in hand I'm gutted I didn't go for that instead. Will definitely be throwing my hat in the ring for a Vase though.
Went for the Middle Finger in Black as I felt it was the more iconic image, but having seen some of the pics of Free Speech in hand I'm gutted I didn't go for that instead. Will definitely be throwing my hat in the ring for a Vase though.
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Display_arts on May 19, 2023 8:23:31 GMT 1,
This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame
This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Someone Like You on May 19, 2023 8:32:49 GMT 1, This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame They are a great price, I expected them to be on sale more expensive.....
This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame They are a great price, I expected them to be on sale more expensive.....
|
|
|
avec art
Junior Member
Posts • 3,727
Likes • 3,061
March 2014
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by avec art on May 19, 2023 10:59:26 GMT 1, There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there?
There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there?
|
|
ubl
New Member
Posts • 356
Likes • 298
November 2019
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by ubl on May 19, 2023 14:19:54 GMT 1, Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it?
Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it?
|
|
binnoob
New Member
Posts • 18
Likes • 15
April 2023
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by binnoob on May 19, 2023 14:49:38 GMT 1, Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it? I’ve purchased a couple of pieces from there. One experience was overall better than the other, but I’d definitely use it again if the right piece was available at the right price.
Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it? I’ve purchased a couple of pieces from there. One experience was overall better than the other, but I’d definitely use it again if the right piece was available at the right price.
|
|
Dust Buster
New Member
Posts • 288
Likes • 287
March 2017
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Dust Buster on May 19, 2023 14:59:23 GMT 1, did i miss an access code for the vase?
did i miss an access code for the vase?
|
|
Pawel
Junior Member
Posts • 3,770
Likes • 3,255
June 2015
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Pawel on May 19, 2023 15:09:04 GMT 1, did i miss an access code for the vase? Yup
did i miss an access code for the vase? Yup
|
|
biggieg
New Member
Posts • 211
Likes • 48
December 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by biggieg on May 19, 2023 15:12:56 GMT 1, Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it? I've bought 2 pieces and sold 4 over the last couple of months. Easy process each time and the team is very responsive.
Has anyone actually ever used FairArt? I see people putting prices in it but do works actually move on it? I've bought 2 pieces and sold 4 over the last couple of months. Easy process each time and the team is very responsive.
|
|
Poster Bob
Junior Member
Posts • 5,872
Likes • 5,484
September 2013
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Poster Bob on May 19, 2023 15:24:53 GMT 1, It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other.
It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other.
|
|
Londown 01
Junior Member
Posts • 1,156
Likes • 983
September 2021
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on May 19, 2023 19:21:02 GMT 1, There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary.
Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept.
There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary. Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept.
|
|
|
sevrin
New Member
Posts • 783
Likes • 1,032
February 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by sevrin on May 19, 2023 19:31:42 GMT 1, There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary. Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept. Personally I think Fairart should withdraw this from sale.
There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary. Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept. Personally I think Fairart should withdraw this from sale.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,782
Likes • 6,706
June 2009
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by met on May 19, 2023 23:40:38 GMT 1, This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame
There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary. Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept. Personally I think Fair art should withdraw this from sale.
www.fairart.io/artworks/ai-weiwei/1358/human-flow/60877
It is a short‑termist approach by FairArt, perhaps suggesting inexperience by the owners or directors.
What this amounts to is the company knowingly facilitating a breach of contract between one of its consignors and Avant Arte.
Frankly, that isn't a great look.
__________
If I were heading a new platform for selling art, a primary concern would be public perception. I'd want the business viewed as being above‑board — one that operates with integrity.
What I would certainly wish to avoid encouraging (and worse, being seen to encourage) is unscrupulous behaviour by my own clients.
That would be shameful, both personally and professionally. But maybe also financially self-defeating in the long run.
It would prioritise immediate profit over market stature, which only makes commercial sense if running a fly‑by‑night enterprise or some other disreputable business.
__________
In case FairArt isn't too bothered about its reputation, the company and its shady consignor neverthless remain vulnerable to provisions of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.
If it so wished, Avant Arte (or somebody acting on its behalf) could for example:
(i) purchase the Ai Weiwei print from FairArt;
(ii) match the edition number to the original buyer;
(iii) blacklist the original buyer (and perhaps "accidentally" disclose the identity of that buyer to other publishers or galleries); and
(iv) exercise their right to cancel their order up to 14 days after delivery of the print.
Now, what would be the likely outcome to this scenario?
ANSWER
(a) Original buyer: Screwed (arguably treated appropriately, with due contempt);
(b) FairArt: Reputation already tainted, but resources now also wasted (arguably treated appropriately);
(c) Avant Arte: Client list partly cleansed; and
(d) The art world generally: No significant change, although now less seedy to a miniscule degree.
__________
Hopefully, the policymakers at FairArt have already considered the above risk and fully thought it through.
But if not, then they possibly aren't the best candidates for their jobs.
This didn’t took very long … it’s a shame There's a resale agreement on Human Flow isn't there? Yes. There is also the clause that these prints have to be offered to Avant Arte first before hitting secondary. Seems not everybody cares. As stated before in this thread, the question is if people will care but also if Avant Arte will take steps to ensure that these two clauses are kept. Personally I think Fair art should withdraw this from sale. www.fairart.io/artworks/ai-weiwei/1358/human-flow/60877It is a short‑termist approach by FairArt, perhaps suggesting inexperience by the owners or directors. What this amounts to is the company knowingly facilitating a breach of contract between one of its consignors and Avant Arte. Frankly, that isn't a great look. __________ If I were heading a new platform for selling art, a primary concern would be public perception. I'd want the business viewed as being above‑board — one that operates with integrity. What I would certainly wish to avoid encouraging (and worse, being seen to encourage) is unscrupulous behaviour by my own clients. That would be shameful, both personally and professionally. But maybe also financially self-defeating in the long run. It would prioritise immediate profit over market stature, which only makes commercial sense if running a fly‑by‑night enterprise or some other disreputable business. __________ In case FairArt isn't too bothered about its reputation, the company and its shady consignor neverthless remain vulnerable to provisions of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. If it so wished, Avant Arte (or somebody acting on its behalf) could for example: (i) purchase the A i W eiw ei print from FairArt; (ii) match the edition number to the original buyer; (iii) blacklist the original buyer (and perhaps "accidentally" disclose the identity of that buyer to other publishers or galleries); and (iv) exercise their right to cancel their order up to 14 days after delivery of the print. Now, what would be the likely outcome to this scenario?ANSWER(a) Original buyer: Screwed (arguably treated appropriately, with due contempt); (b) FairArt: Reputation already tainted, but resources now also wasted (arguably treated appropriately); (c) Avant Arte: Client list partly cleansed; and (d) The art world generally: No significant change, although now less seedy to a miniscule degree. __________ Hopefully, the policymakers at FairArt have already considered the above risk and fully thought it through. But if not, then they possibly aren't the best candidates for their jobs.
|
|
gus
New Member
Posts • 242
Likes • 312
October 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by gus on May 19, 2023 23:55:40 GMT 1, It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other. Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob.
It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other. Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob.
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Display_arts on May 20, 2023 9:45:50 GMT 1, It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other. Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob. You think it was impossible that there were flippers at the event?
It’s what happens when you distribute a universal access code to the forum. There will be many more available. If you’re after one and they don’t sell immediately, wait for the flippers to start undercutting each other. Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob. You think it was impossible that there were flippers at the event?
|
|
gus
New Member
Posts • 242
Likes • 312
October 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by gus on May 20, 2023 10:13:30 GMT 1, Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob. You think it was impossible that there were flippers at the event? Not at all. Flippers are everywhere. It’s what you get when you sell pretty much anything, inside and outside of art, that has sufficient demand. Of course here there are flippers. To say “that’s what happens when you share a code on uaa” one would either need to be cognitively challenged or full of cope and seethe. Maybe both in this case but idk.
Yes this never happens when that isn't the case. Flippers are only ever enabled with access codes on uaa. Very valid and insightful point bob. You think it was impossible that there were flippers at the event? Not at all. Flippers are everywhere. It’s what you get when you sell pretty much anything, inside and outside of art, that has sufficient demand. Of course here there are flippers. To say “that’s what happens when you share a code on uaa” one would either need to be cognitively challenged or full of cope and seethe. Maybe both in this case but idk.
|
|
FairArt
Art Media
New Member
Posts • 95
Likes • 102
March 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by FairArt on May 20, 2023 12:09:27 GMT 1, Hi met ,
Thank you for this in-depth analysis of what is a controversial topic. Before getting into it, I wanted to note that we have great admiration for the work you do in this forum. Your posts are always clear, insightful and help collectors get to the truth.
We appreciate that discussions around the reselling of works can be highly charged, and there is rarely a consensus.
Someone from AA approached us a little while on this topic and in the interest of complete transparency, please see our response below:
"We have had a few other galleries get in touch for similar reasons, but after having spoken through our mission with them, they have decided to let things lie.
Galleries on the whole have been receptive due to our focus on artist royalties. FairArt seeks to erode the profits of resellers on the secondary market, and share them back with artists who have previously been excluded from the value they create through their hard work.
We know how much time galleries such as yourselves spend on trying to place works in the right hands and away from flippers, and we fully support this. However, FairArt seeks to minimise the damage heavy speculation can cause an artist’s long term career prospects through artist royalties. Our ultimate hope is that we are the start of a much wider industry shift towards fairer compensation on both primary and secondary markets, for each and every artist. You can learn more about FairArt royalties here.
At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace, and the artist will be completely excluded from any royalties being paid (in this case the royalties would go back to the Design Museum). Please refer to a simple search on Artsy for Roby Dwi Antono’s work and you will find a number of your editions are being resold within a two-year period – unfortunately, in these cases the artist will receive no compensation.
As mentioned, we fully support your efforts in seeking to prevent speculators from receiving your work, but reselling is an undeniable reality of the industry and if it’s going to happen, why not ensure that it does some good in further helping artists?
We hope that you share in our vision for a fairer secondary market and greater support for artists. After all, none of us would be here without them."
Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether.
The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable.
So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work?
Please know that we have given this an immense amount of thought. We’re not claiming that FairArt is a silver bullet that will solve all of these issues, but we do want FairArt to push collectors to have these sorts of discussions around reselling and the value of royalties. Ultimately, we believe they are crucial to the future of the industry and pushing us towards more sustainable models for artists in the secondary market.
As I said above, we know this is a highly charged topic with little consensus, but I think the majority would agree that the current state of affairs does little good for the wider art community – and that change needs to happen.
Thanks, Nick
Hi met , Thank you for this in-depth analysis of what is a controversial topic. Before getting into it, I wanted to note that we have great admiration for the work you do in this forum. Your posts are always clear, insightful and help collectors get to the truth. We appreciate that discussions around the reselling of works can be highly charged, and there is rarely a consensus. Someone from AA approached us a little while on this topic and in the interest of complete transparency, please see our response below: "We have had a few other galleries get in touch for similar reasons, but after having spoken through our mission with them, they have decided to let things lie.
Galleries on the whole have been receptive due to our focus on artist royalties. FairArt seeks to erode the profits of resellers on the secondary market, and share them back with artists who have previously been excluded from the value they create through their hard work.
We know how much time galleries such as yourselves spend on trying to place works in the right hands and away from flippers, and we fully support this. However, FairArt seeks to minimise the damage heavy speculation can cause an artist’s long term career prospects through artist royalties. Our ultimate hope is that we are the start of a much wider industry shift towards fairer compensation on both primary and secondary markets, for each and every artist. You can learn more about FairArt royalties here.
At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace, and the artist will be completely excluded from any royalties being paid (in this case the royalties would go back to the Design Museum). Please refer to a simple search on Artsy for Roby Dwi Antono’s work and you will find a number of your editions are being resold within a two-year period – unfortunately, in these cases the artist will receive no compensation.
As mentioned, we fully support your efforts in seeking to prevent speculators from receiving your work, but reselling is an undeniable reality of the industry and if it’s going to happen, why not ensure that it does some good in further helping artists?
We hope that you share in our vision for a fairer secondary market and greater support for artists. After all, none of us would be here without them."Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether. The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable. So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work? Please know that we have given this an immense amount of thought. We’re not claiming that FairArt is a silver bullet that will solve all of these issues, but we do want FairArt to push collectors to have these sorts of discussions around reselling and the value of royalties. Ultimately, we believe they are crucial to the future of the industry and pushing us towards more sustainable models for artists in the secondary market. As I said above, we know this is a highly charged topic with little consensus, but I think the majority would agree that the current state of affairs does little good for the wider art community – and that change needs to happen. Thanks, Nick
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Acme Thunderer on May 20, 2023 12:17:05 GMT 1, Hi met , Thank you for this in-depth analysis of what is a controversial topic. Before getting into it, I wanted to note that we have great admiration for the work you do in this forum. Your posts are always clear, insightful and help collectors get to the truth. We appreciate that discussions around the reselling of works can be highly charged, and there is rarely a consensus. Someone from AA approached us a little while on this topic and in the interest of complete transparency, please see our response below: "We have had a few other galleries get in touch for similar reasons, but after having spoken through our mission with them, they have decided to let things lie.
Galleries on the whole have been receptive due to our focus on artist royalties. FairArt seeks to erode the profits of resellers on the secondary market, and share them back with artists who have previously been excluded from the value they create through their hard work.
We know how much time galleries such as yourselves spend on trying to place works in the right hands and away from flippers, and we fully support this. However, FairArt seeks to minimise the damage heavy speculation can cause an artist’s long term career prospects through artist royalties. Our ultimate hope is that we are the start of a much wider industry shift towards fairer compensation on both primary and secondary markets, for each and every artist. You can learn more about FairArt royalties here.
At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace, and the artist will be completely excluded from any royalties being paid (in this case the royalties would go back to the Design Museum). Please refer to a simple search on Artsy for Roby Dwi Antono’s work and you will find a number of your editions are being resold within a two-year period – unfortunately, in these cases the artist will receive no compensation.
As mentioned, we fully support your efforts in seeking to prevent speculators from receiving your work, but reselling is an undeniable reality of the industry and if it’s going to happen, why not ensure that it does some good in further helping artists?
We hope that you share in our vision for a fairer secondary market and greater support for artists. After all, none of us would be here without them."Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether. The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable. So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work? Please know that we have given this an immense amount of thought. We’re not claiming that FairArt is a silver bullet that will solve all of these issues, but we do want FairArt to push collectors to have these sorts of discussions around reselling and the value of royalties. Ultimately, we believe they are crucial to the future of the industry and pushing us towards more sustainable models for artists in the secondary market. As I said above, we know this is a highly charged topic with little consensus, but I think the majority would agree that the current state of affairs does little good for the wider art community – and that change needs to happen. Thanks, Nick …so the short version of this is that “you don’t care about resale agreements and you only care about yourselves” 🤔
Interesting that you admit Avant Arte did contact you as they were obviously concerned with how you operate in the first place.
Hi met , Thank you for this in-depth analysis of what is a controversial topic. Before getting into it, I wanted to note that we have great admiration for the work you do in this forum. Your posts are always clear, insightful and help collectors get to the truth. We appreciate that discussions around the reselling of works can be highly charged, and there is rarely a consensus. Someone from AA approached us a little while on this topic and in the interest of complete transparency, please see our response below: "We have had a few other galleries get in touch for similar reasons, but after having spoken through our mission with them, they have decided to let things lie.
Galleries on the whole have been receptive due to our focus on artist royalties. FairArt seeks to erode the profits of resellers on the secondary market, and share them back with artists who have previously been excluded from the value they create through their hard work.
We know how much time galleries such as yourselves spend on trying to place works in the right hands and away from flippers, and we fully support this. However, FairArt seeks to minimise the damage heavy speculation can cause an artist’s long term career prospects through artist royalties. Our ultimate hope is that we are the start of a much wider industry shift towards fairer compensation on both primary and secondary markets, for each and every artist. You can learn more about FairArt royalties here.
At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace, and the artist will be completely excluded from any royalties being paid (in this case the royalties would go back to the Design Museum). Please refer to a simple search on Artsy for Roby Dwi Antono’s work and you will find a number of your editions are being resold within a two-year period – unfortunately, in these cases the artist will receive no compensation.
As mentioned, we fully support your efforts in seeking to prevent speculators from receiving your work, but reselling is an undeniable reality of the industry and if it’s going to happen, why not ensure that it does some good in further helping artists?
We hope that you share in our vision for a fairer secondary market and greater support for artists. After all, none of us would be here without them."Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether. The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable. So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work? Please know that we have given this an immense amount of thought. We’re not claiming that FairArt is a silver bullet that will solve all of these issues, but we do want FairArt to push collectors to have these sorts of discussions around reselling and the value of royalties. Ultimately, we believe they are crucial to the future of the industry and pushing us towards more sustainable models for artists in the secondary market. As I said above, we know this is a highly charged topic with little consensus, but I think the majority would agree that the current state of affairs does little good for the wider art community – and that change needs to happen. Thanks, Nick …so the short version of this is that “you don’t care about resale agreements and you only care about yourselves” 🤔 Interesting that you admit Avant Arte did contact you as they were obviously concerned with how you operate in the first place.
|
|
topper
New Member
Posts • 294
Likes • 427
February 2023
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by topper on May 20, 2023 12:49:20 GMT 1, To be fair, "At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace" Is an age old cop-out that has been used to excuse dodgy deals for millennia.
To be fair, "At the end of the day, if we remove this listing from the platform the seller will simply seek to sell it on another marketplace" Is an age old cop-out that has been used to excuse dodgy deals for millennia.
|
|
|
FairArt
Art Media
New Member
Posts • 95
Likes • 102
March 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by FairArt on May 20, 2023 12:55:33 GMT 1, Hi Acme Thunderer,
Not at all, I think this was covered in my my previous response:
“Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether.
The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable.
So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work?”
We’d really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions you might have on how to address this wider issue.
We actively seek feedback from collectors in this forum, and we are grateful when we receive it, but we believe simply ignoring the issue and allowing for artists to continue to be excluded cannot be the answer.
We have reached out directly to Avant Arte to discuss this further and find a solution.
Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Nick
Hi Acme Thunderer, Not at all, I think this was covered in my my previous response: “Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether.
The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable.
So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work?”We’d really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions you might have on how to address this wider issue. We actively seek feedback from collectors in this forum, and we are grateful when we receive it, but we believe simply ignoring the issue and allowing for artists to continue to be excluded cannot be the answer. We have reached out directly to Avant Arte to discuss this further and find a solution. Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Nick
|
|
Loobaz
New Member
Posts • 321
Likes • 170
July 2011
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Loobaz on May 20, 2023 12:55:37 GMT 1, I really didn't expect that kind of response from FairArt, who have come across really well to me so far. Quite disappointing.
I really didn't expect that kind of response from FairArt, who have come across really well to me so far. Quite disappointing.
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Acme Thunderer on May 20, 2023 13:02:36 GMT 1, Hi Acme Thunderer , Not at all, I think this was covered in my my previous response: “Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether.
The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable.
So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work?”We’d really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions you might have on how to address this wider issue. We actively seek feedback from collectors in this forum, and we are grateful when we receive it, but we believe simply ignoring the issue and allowing for artists to continue to be excluded cannot be the answer. We have reached out directly to Avant Arte to discuss this further and find a solution. Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Nick An artist places trust in a gallery to release their work and the artist requests the no resale agreement.
If the artist wanted resale commission / ARR from auction houses (or online platforms that hide the sellers identity), they would not stipulate the no resale agreement.
Please do not dress up that you are helping the artist, as the artist never needed your help in the first place otherwise they would never have requested the agreement in the first place.
At the end of the day, you are going against the artists wishes and you are encouraging flipping.
Have a great weekend. 😀
Hi Acme Thunderer , Not at all, I think this was covered in my my previous response: “Let me be clear. This does not mean that we encourage the prevalence of ‘flipping’ in the market, and as we said in our response, we support the work primary galleries do to ensure the works they allocate end up in the hands of people who actually want them. Non-resale agreements are one of a number of obstacles galleries put in place to prevent flipping. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you know, they tend to be ignored altogether.
The conclusion we came to was that reselling, whether the ‘good’ or the ‘bad’ kind, is always going to be a reality of the secondary art market. Currently, the only beneficiaries of private collector-to-collector sales are marketplaces such as Ebay / StockX and resellers; meanwhile, the artist sees none of the short-term profit they create by making their works more accessible and affordable.
So, if it’s going to happen, why should artists not at the very least receive a cut to minimise the harm done by short-term reselling and share in the value they create for others through their work?”We’d really appreciate any thoughts and suggestions you might have on how to address this wider issue. We actively seek feedback from collectors in this forum, and we are grateful when we receive it, but we believe simply ignoring the issue and allowing for artists to continue to be excluded cannot be the answer. We have reached out directly to Avant Arte to discuss this further and find a solution. Have a great weekend.
Thanks, Nick An artist places trust in a gallery to release their work and the artist requests the no resale agreement. If the artist wanted resale commission / ARR from auction houses (or online platforms that hide the sellers identity), they would not stipulate the no resale agreement. Please do not dress up that you are helping the artist, as the artist never needed your help in the first place otherwise they would never have requested the agreement in the first place. At the end of the day, you are going against the artists wishes and you are encouraging flipping. Have a great weekend. 😀
|
|
avec art
Junior Member
Posts • 3,727
Likes • 3,061
March 2014
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by avec art on May 20, 2023 13:07:19 GMT 1, Is that not like saying you're ok with selling say 'stolen goods' because the thief is going to find a way to sell them anyway, and it's better that they sell them to me because I'm more moral than other sellers of stolen goods.
I appreciate it's a little more nuanced than that, as there is the royalties thing, but it feels as though this is being used to justify more business, and here in a way which undermines AA. Feels very cynical indeed.
Is that not like saying you're ok with selling say 'stolen goods' because the thief is going to find a way to sell them anyway, and it's better that they sell them to me because I'm more moral than other sellers of stolen goods.
I appreciate it's a little more nuanced than that, as there is the royalties thing, but it feels as though this is being used to justify more business, and here in a way which undermines AA. Feels very cynical indeed.
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Crime in the City on May 20, 2023 13:08:29 GMT 1, Is that not like saying you're ok with selling say 'stolen goods' because the thief is going to find a way to sell them anyway, and it's better that they sell them to me because I'm more moral than other sellers of stolen goods. I appreciate it's a little more nuanced than that, as there is the royalties thing, but it feels as though this is being used to justify more business, and here in a way which undermines AA. Feels very cynical indeed. You forgot the 'Have a great weekend'...
Is that not like saying you're ok with selling say 'stolen goods' because the thief is going to find a way to sell them anyway, and it's better that they sell them to me because I'm more moral than other sellers of stolen goods. I appreciate it's a little more nuanced than that, as there is the royalties thing, but it feels as though this is being used to justify more business, and here in a way which undermines AA. Feels very cynical indeed. You forgot the 'Have a great weekend'...
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by King and a Duck on May 20, 2023 13:09:02 GMT 1, Whilst we're here, I have a few items listed on eBay (not Ai Weiwei) and get constant messages saying "Would you consider selling this on FairArt" from a "friend" of the company... I find it so annoying that I don't ever foresee selling on AirFart.
Whilst we're here, I have a few items listed on eBay (not Ai Weiwei) and get constant messages saying "Would you consider selling this on FairArt" from a "friend" of the company... I find it so annoying that I don't ever foresee selling on AirFart.
|
|
FairArt
Art Media
New Member
Posts • 95
Likes • 102
March 2022
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by FairArt on May 20, 2023 13:09:38 GMT 1, I really didn't expect that kind of response from FairArt , who have come across really well to me so far. Quite disappointing. I’m sorry you think this Loobaz. We are just starting out and still learning all the time. From these responses, we can clearly see that our approach to this issue needs more work.
We have removed the listings for now and will discuss a more permanent solution with Avant Arte.
Thank you all for your feedback.
I really didn't expect that kind of response from FairArt , who have come across really well to me so far. Quite disappointing. I’m sorry you think this Loobaz. We are just starting out and still learning all the time. From these responses, we can clearly see that our approach to this issue needs more work. We have removed the listings for now and will discuss a more permanent solution with Avant Arte. Thank you all for your feedback.
|
|
|
Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Crime in the City on May 20, 2023 13:14:17 GMT 1, Whilst we're here, I have a few items listed on eBay (not Ai Weiwei) and get constant messages saying "Would you consider selling this on FairArt" from a "friend" of the company... I find it so annoying that I don't ever foresee selling on AirFart. lol @ "Hi, I'm mates with one of the founders, just helping spread the word "
Whilst we're here, I have a few items listed on eBay (not Ai Weiwei) and get constant messages saying "Would you consider selling this on FairArt" from a "friend" of the company... I find it so annoying that I don't ever foresee selling on AirFart. lol @ "Hi, I'm mates with one of the founders, just helping spread the word "
|
|