Pawel
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June 2015
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Pawel on Aug 12, 2023 11:15:37 GMT 1, Lol
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Londown 01
Junior Member
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 12, 2023 11:43:22 GMT 1,
This thread has become very tedious.
This thread has become very tedious.
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Spent all my Money on Art on Aug 12, 2023 14:28:05 GMT 1, Please pm me with asking price
Please pm me with asking price
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pomelo
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November 2014
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by pomelo on Aug 12, 2023 19:56:37 GMT 1, Pm me too please, I was on holidays when this one release
Pm me too please, I was on holidays when this one release
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robo
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by robo on Aug 12, 2023 20:58:29 GMT 1, Sold.
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fq9
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September 2014
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by fq9 on Aug 13, 2023 10:46:09 GMT 1, PM me please.. am also looking for one.. thx
PM me please.. am also looking for one.. thx
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Londown 01
Junior Member
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 13, 2023 11:24:29 GMT 1, Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also.
(And yes, I know you don't care but I do)
Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also.
(And yes, I know you don't care but I do)
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Display_arts
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December 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Display_arts on Aug 13, 2023 12:27:21 GMT 1, Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also. (And yes, I know you don't care but I do) I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait
Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also. (And yes, I know you don't care but I do) I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait
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ubl
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Posts โข 356
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November 2019
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by ubl on Aug 13, 2023 13:03:47 GMT 1, Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also. (And yes, I know you don't care but I do) I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait Very weird statement from someone who is "looking to buy one".
Selling before the 2 years are over is definitely immoral, possibly illegal. But encouraging somebody to break the 2 year contract is immoral also. (And yes, I know you don't care but I do) I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait Very weird statement from someone who is "looking to buy one".
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Display_arts
New Member
Posts โข 97
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December 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Display_arts on Aug 13, 2023 13:58:04 GMT 1, I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait Very weird statement from someone who is "looking to buy one". How is that weird? Wouldnโt it be weird if I would say than it would be immoral but I wanna do it?
I obviously canโt agree. Some people who really want to have it and display it shouldnโt even ask to get one? I didnโt sign any contract that doesnโt allow me to buy it. So why is it immoral? Now I possibly can get it cheaper because some people want to flip it very fast for a lower profit than whoโs willing to wait Very weird statement from someone who is "looking to buy one". How is that weird? Wouldnโt it be weird if I would say than it would be immoral but I wanna do it?
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robo
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,578
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November 2006
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by robo on Aug 13, 2023 14:59:23 GMT 1, Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐
Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐
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Londown 01
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 13, 2023 15:07:31 GMT 1, What I mean is this (for simplicity's sake I'll keep my thoughts brief)
1. Everybody who has bought a vase has agreed to a contract that says it must not be sold within the next 2 years: let's say they have given their word that they will not sell within 2 years
2. If somebody sells within 2 years they are breaking their word - which is immoral
3. By attempting to buy a vase, a buyer encourages the original owner to break their word - which is immoral also
(Hypothetical analogy: Say you encourage somebody to rob a bank. a) Robbing a bank is immoral b) Encouraging them also. In a different way, but still)
What I mean is this (for simplicity's sake I'll keep my thoughts brief)
1. Everybody who has bought a vase has agreed to a contract that says it must not be sold within the next 2 years: let's say they have given their word that they will not sell within 2 years
2. If somebody sells within 2 years they are breaking their word - which is immoral
3. By attempting to buy a vase, a buyer encourages the original owner to break their word - which is immoral also
(Hypothetical analogy: Say you encourage somebody to rob a bank. a) Robbing a bank is immoral b) Encouraging them also. In a different way, but still)
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George Poppit
Junior Member
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February 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by George Poppit on Aug 13, 2023 16:00:59 GMT 1, The main reason most people on this forum bought this vase was to make a profit. No massive surprise to see the main topic of conversation is value and when itโs ok to sell.
The main reason most people on this forum bought this vase was to make a profit. No massive surprise to see the main topic of conversation is value and when itโs ok to sell.
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by its all about me on Aug 13, 2023 17:44:59 GMT 1, Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐ It's not the buying and selling of art that's Immoral. It's the agreeing not to sell within the first two years...and then selling within the first two weeks.
Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐ It's not the buying and selling of art that's Immoral. It's the agreeing not to sell within the first two years...and then selling within the first two weeks.
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nobokov
Junior Member
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February 2016
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by nobokov on Aug 13, 2023 18:03:12 GMT 1, Isn't the agreement put in place for parties to just appear moral? Behind all that "morality," there's the common knowledge that editions/artwork from well-known artists are merely tools for making money for the majority of pyramid scheme participants and sales above the original cost at any point, benefit the parties involved, including the gallerist and artist who can then jack up the price for the next edition. I don't think morality comes into play when all participants are willing participants of the game.
Isn't the agreement put in place for parties to just appear moral? Behind all that "morality," there's the common knowledge that editions/artwork from well-known artists are merely tools for making money for the majority of pyramid scheme participants and sales above the original cost at any point, benefit the parties involved, including the gallerist and artist who can then jack up the price for the next edition. I don't think morality comes into play when all participants are willing participants of the game.
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blurp
New Member
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February 2019
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by blurp on Aug 13, 2023 18:17:31 GMT 1, Arguably, there could be good deals 2 years from now to be had. Bookmark this thread
Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐ It's not the buying and selling of art that's Immoral. It's the agreeing not to sell within the first two years...and then selling within the first two weeks.
Arguably, there could be good deals 2 years from now to be had. Bookmark this thread Letโs just be clear here - unless youโve led extremely sheltered lives , merely buying or selling art is not what for most people would fall under the usual definition of something โ immoralโ. ๐ It's not the buying and selling of art that's Immoral. It's the agreeing not to sell within the first two years...and then selling within the first two weeks.
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brule
New Member
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November 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by brule on Aug 13, 2023 20:05:50 GMT 1, Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500.
Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end.
Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500.
Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end.
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robo
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,578
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November 2006
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by robo on Aug 13, 2023 20:24:37 GMT 1, Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Thanks for posting. How do you know about this?
Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Thanks for posting. How do you know about this?
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Acme Thunderer
Junior Member
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June 2011
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Acme Thunderer on Aug 13, 2023 20:25:10 GMT 1, Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Letโs hope the gallery is still around in 2 years time so he can get his COA. A lot can happen in 2 years so itโs a risky purchase.
Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Letโs hope the gallery is still around in 2 years time so he can get his COA. A lot can happen in 2 years so itโs a risky purchase.
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sevrin
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February 2022
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by sevrin on Aug 13, 2023 20:29:42 GMT 1, Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Letโs hope the gallery is still around in 2 years time so he can get his COA. A lot can happen in 2 years so itโs a risky purchase. He doesn't have to wait 2 years, the COA comes with the Vase
Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Letโs hope the gallery is still around in 2 years time so he can get his COA. A lot can happen in 2 years so itโs a risky purchase. He doesn't have to wait 2 years, the COA comes with the Vase
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brule
New Member
Posts โข 185
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November 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by brule on Aug 13, 2023 20:57:05 GMT 1, Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Thanks for posting. How do you know about this? Thatโs what he said in the Heni discord. I have no direct knowledge.
Now it sounds like the artsy gallery and guy whose order was canceled came to a deal at $5500. Shady move by the gallery, but I suspect that will still look like a good purchase for the buyer in the end. Thanks for posting. How do you know about this? Thatโs what he said in the Heni discord. I have no direct knowledge.
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avec art
Junior Member
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March 2014
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by avec art on Aug 13, 2023 21:17:14 GMT 1, aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement.
aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement.
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brule
New Member
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November 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by brule on Aug 13, 2023 22:53:03 GMT 1, aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement. I donโt think the galleries ever tell you the pieceโs number before you buy. I think itโs why you see more of these pieces at online galleries early on and not at auction where they would publish the number.
aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement. I donโt think the galleries ever tell you the pieceโs number before you buy. I think itโs why you see more of these pieces at online galleries early on and not at auction where they would publish the number.
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by its all about me on Aug 14, 2023 11:27:34 GMT 1, aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement. Well that's true only if art producers keep a record of what edition number went to what buyer. I suspect they don't. Too much paperwork involved. They simply ship a random number to everyone who purchased one.
That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases.
aren't they numbered though? In which case they can identify who is was who broke their agreement. Well that's true only if art producers keep a record of what edition number went to what buyer. I suspect they don't. Too much paperwork involved. They simply ship a random number to everyone who purchased one. That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases.
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Londown 01
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 14, 2023 11:35:21 GMT 1, That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases. Absolutely.
However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility.
That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases. Absolutely. However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility.
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by its all about me on Aug 14, 2023 11:41:37 GMT 1, That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases. Absolutely. However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility. But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place?
That's the problem for companies like AvantArte. In reality, it's very difficult to be able to track the flippers and blacklist them for future releases. Absolutely. However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility. But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place?
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Acme Thunderer
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,446
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June 2011
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Acme Thunderer on Aug 14, 2023 11:50:18 GMT 1, Maybe Avant Arte and Christian Avant Arte have read the comments about the resale agreement and they will respond to the comments in the thread.
They have been excellent at communicating when they were selling so no reason for them to go quiet now.
Iโm sure they will explain what they plan to do (or if there is silence, that will confirm they plan on doing nothing).
Maybe Avant Arte and Christian Avant Arte have read the comments about the resale agreement and they will respond to the comments in the thread. They have been excellent at communicating when they were selling so no reason for them to go quiet now. Iโm sure they will explain what they plan to do (or if there is silence, that will confirm they plan on doing nothing).
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Londown 01
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 14, 2023 11:54:34 GMT 1, But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place? Would take a lawyer (or whoever) to answer that question, I think. They could take legal action against those that are selling before the two years are over. And then make it public: so that anyone thinking about it will be scared off.
And I personally don't mind that clause, because
a) I was not given the opportunity to buy a Vase b) I have never flipped a work c) I appreciate everything that is designed to prevent flipping
But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place? Would take a lawyer (or whoever) to answer that question, I think. They could take legal action against those that are selling before the two years are over. And then make it public: so that anyone thinking about it will be scared off. And I personally don't mind that clause, because a) I was not given the opportunity to buy a Vase b) I have never flipped a work c) I appreciate everything that is designed to prevent flipping
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Londown 01
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
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September 2021
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Londown 01 on Aug 14, 2023 11:57:10 GMT 1, They have been excellent at communicating when they were selling so no reason for them to go quiet now. Oh, I think there is good reason to go quiet now. It's a dilemma they are facing:
Either: If they don't take action they will look weak and insincere Or: If they take action they will be the art publishers that sue their customers
Neither is pretty.
They have been excellent at communicating when they were selling so no reason for them to go quiet now. Oh, I think there is good reason to go quiet now. It's a dilemma they are facing: Either: If they don't take action they will look weak and insincere Or: If they take action they will be the art publishers that sue their customers Neither is pretty.
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Manty
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June 2022
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Ai Weiwei Avant Art Releases 2023, by Manty on Aug 14, 2023 12:02:47 GMT 1, Absolutely. However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility. But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place? Might be enforceable. But at a pretty large cost financially, time and grief. I don't think they will do anything other than shit list the buyers if they have the time and inclination to do so. Better they don't respond to the enforcement side and leave it to the buyers to decide if they will comply to the agreement or not and leave them in the dark to potential consequences.
Maybe the box has a little timed self destruct mechanism built in?
Absolutely. However, since they decided to put in place a resale clause and then just let people ignore it, they make fools of themselves. They say that they care more about art lovers and that works find a good home: but if they don't enforce that clause in the contract, they will lose lots of credibility. But how do they enforce that clause in the contract? I wish they would but I'm finding it hard to image how they possibly could. Or are you suggesting they shouldn't have that clause in the first place? Might be enforceable. But at a pretty large cost financially, time and grief. I don't think they will do anything other than shit list the buyers if they have the time and inclination to do so. Better they don't respond to the enforcement side and leave it to the buyers to decide if they will comply to the agreement or not and leave them in the dark to potential consequences. Maybe the box has a little timed self destruct mechanism built in?
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