Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Winter on Sept 4, 2023 11:43:52 GMT 1, 'Handbags' over someone selling a vase - the true essence of urban art
'Handbags' over someone selling a vase - the true essence of urban art
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drip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,419
๐๐ป 5,063
February 2015
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by drip on Sept 4, 2023 11:49:40 GMT 1, Well this got weird.
Well this got weird.
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robo
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,582
๐๐ป 1,007
November 2006
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by robo on Sept 4, 2023 12:01:39 GMT 1, I was going to keep my vase but this sideshow makes me want to sell it on here for the kicks! ๐
I was going to keep my vase but this sideshow makes me want to sell it on here for the kicks! ๐
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by its all about me on Sept 4, 2023 12:14:16 GMT 1, Avante Art know full well this forum is made of speculators rather than collectors. Making sure the work is mentioned on this forum is part of their business plan. I don't believe that for a minute.
Avante Art know full well this forum is made of speculators rather than collectors. Making sure the work is mentioned on this forum is part of their business plan. I don't believe that for a minute.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by its all about me on Sept 4, 2023 12:19:01 GMT 1, 100%. Can someone please just give the guyโs name to AA please so at least he canโt access any future desirable / flippable releases from them Snitches are worse than flippers in my opinion.. "Snitches" as you put it, help to build the reputation of this forum and encourage galleries to frequent the site. If I worked at Avant Arte, I would now be thinking..."We wont bother giving a pre-sale link to this bunch of flippers anymore".
100%. Can someone please just give the guyโs name to AA please so at least he canโt access any future desirable / flippable releases from them Snitches are worse than flippers in my opinion.. "Snitches" as you put it, help to build the reputation of this forum and encourage galleries to frequent the site. If I worked at Avant Arte, I would now be thinking..."We wont bother giving a pre-sale link to this bunch of flippers anymore".
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ericc
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 152
๐๐ป 106
October 2012
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by ericc on Sept 4, 2023 12:31:04 GMT 1, Discuss the piece or move on I, actually, don't think its a minor issue. Especially because AA has generously given the forum the opportunity to purchase before the official release: they might think twice about doing that again when they see that the pieces are flipped right away. So selling so early could really be a disservice to the whole community. Avant Arte never shared any presale links on this forum. A forum member posted the access information at some point. You could email AA or the design museum to get access to the presale room. All the editions where available for at least one day and people had plenty of time to decide what to buy.
Discuss the piece or move on I, actually, don't think its a minor issue. Especially because AA has generously given the forum the opportunity to purchase before the official release: they might think twice about doing that again when they see that the pieces are flipped right away. So selling so early could really be a disservice to the whole community. Avant Arte never shared any presale links on this forum. A forum member posted the access information at some point. You could email AA or the design museum to get access to the presale room. All the editions where available for at least one day and people had plenty of time to decide what to buy.
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Newar
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,473
๐๐ป 1,072
April 2018
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Newar on Sept 4, 2023 13:15:16 GMT 1, <POPCORN>
ON
</POPCORN>;
same old discution
It's a beauty in flesh and time will tell and as my grandma say 'it's a real dust gatherer'
<POPCORN> ON </POPCORN>; same old discution It's a beauty in flesh and time will tell and as my grandma say 'it's a real dust gatherer'
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timmyup
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 106
๐๐ป 41
June 2023
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by timmyup on Sept 4, 2023 17:59:30 GMT 1, This is such an odd thing to buy, I donโt get itโฆ can someone explain what itโs about?
This is such an odd thing to buy, I donโt get itโฆ can someone explain what itโs about?
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Jules Leotard on Sept 5, 2023 2:00:41 GMT 1, Maybe Avant Arte can chime in seeing that they hang around here often enough.
If the owner of one of these vases attempts to put it into an auction (even ebay) or a gallery, would the auction house or gallery pull the item if Avant Arte (or anyone with a link to the "agreement" and initial sale date) contacted them and showed them the "2 year ownership obligation?"
Second thought, who is to say that this isn't for sale by an Avant Arte insider who was able to buy it because they had an inside track to the item? Clearly, from the results on the day they went on sale there were only a few that were actually unclaimed. What was available sold out in what, 25 seconds?
I agree that flipping this on UAA doesn't reflect well on the community.
Maybe Avant Arte can chime in seeing that they hang around here often enough.
If the owner of one of these vases attempts to put it into an auction (even ebay) or a gallery, would the auction house or gallery pull the item if Avant Arte (or anyone with a link to the "agreement" and initial sale date) contacted them and showed them the "2 year ownership obligation?"
Second thought, who is to say that this isn't for sale by an Avant Arte insider who was able to buy it because they had an inside track to the item? Clearly, from the results on the day they went on sale there were only a few that were actually unclaimed. What was available sold out in what, 25 seconds?
I agree that flipping this on UAA doesn't reflect well on the community.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Jules Leotard on Sept 5, 2023 2:07:14 GMT 1, I love this work ! Good luck with the sale Iโve still got mine but will likely need to sell it. So says the guy that also expects to sell his...
I love this work ! Good luck with the sale Iโve still got mine but will likely need to sell it. So says the guy that also expects to sell his...
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by LJCal on Sept 5, 2023 2:18:20 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity.
On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable.
No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity.
On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable.
No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Jules Leotard on Sept 5, 2023 2:37:52 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
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Forbidden Love
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,284
๐๐ป 1,083
September 2011
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Forbidden Love on Sept 5, 2023 8:59:38 GMT 1, It is too stop lots all coming on the market at the same time, it will stop some people buying it for an instant flip. and by the time 2 years is up people might of changed their mind and not need to sell if they had bought them straight away.
It is too stop lots all coming on the market at the same time, it will stop some people buying it for an instant flip. and by the time 2 years is up people might of changed their mind and not need to sell if they had bought them straight away.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Johnny Sarcasm on Sept 5, 2023 9:39:57 GMT 1, Hopefully AA will have delivered the vases by the time the 2 year resale clause is up ๐
Hopefully AA will have delivered the vases by the time the 2 year resale clause is up ๐
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by LJCal on Sept 5, 2023 11:29:42 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
You must be one of the 0.01% who is so wealthy theyโll never need to sell anything to finance a new purchase or whose taste hasnโt changed in 10-20 years, most collectors go on a different journey. In terms of never breaching a contract, in this instance one of the main legal arguments is that these clauses actually cut across various statutory consumer protections. These laws protect consumers from unfair and onerous conditions in contracts and essentially serve to nullify them whilst still upholding the rest of the contract, so in a legal sense the clause is as good as absent.
One thing we agree on is that these clauses shouldnโt be inserted into contracts to begin with especially where the business model relies upon resellers in the case of large editions. In my mind there are a legal alternatives involving transfer of ownership which would stand up or some kind of deferred discount or cash back. I expect the reason galleries donโt use these is because they know it would put off too many buyers. For me the correct thing morally and legally to do, is to request that people endeavor not to sell for 2 years and that if they do they risk being excluded from future sales, that seems the most upfront way of dealing with it.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
You must be one of the 0.01% who is so wealthy theyโll never need to sell anything to finance a new purchase or whose taste hasnโt changed in 10-20 years, most collectors go on a different journey. In terms of never breaching a contract, in this instance one of the main legal arguments is that these clauses actually cut across various statutory consumer protections. These laws protect consumers from unfair and onerous conditions in contracts and essentially serve to nullify them whilst still upholding the rest of the contract, so in a legal sense the clause is as good as absent. One thing we agree on is that these clauses shouldnโt be inserted into contracts to begin with especially where the business model relies upon resellers in the case of large editions. In my mind there are a legal alternatives involving transfer of ownership which would stand up or some kind of deferred discount or cash back. I expect the reason galleries donโt use these is because they know it would put off too many buyers. For me the correct thing morally and legally to do, is to request that people endeavor not to sell for 2 years and that if they do they risk being excluded from future sales, that seems the most upfront way of dealing with it.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by its all about me on Sept 5, 2023 13:05:47 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise.
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lukas01
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,226
๐๐ป 987
December 2022
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by lukas01 on Sept 5, 2023 13:33:33 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
I bought something in the last few years. Not much to tell the truth. I don't feel the need to sell either. Why sell if you bought what you liked? If you have found the space on the wall, more often than not, it becomes difficult to part with the purchased work. Catapulting like this is not a pretty thing to see. I wanted to buy that vase and put it on the shelf for the next 40 years (at least). I failed due to a number of things. Sometimes whoever has bread doesn't have teeth, and whoever has teeth doesn't have bread. I hope that Ai Weiwei will be able to sell and make others in the coming months, with differentiated transparent colors and a version in fine white Chinese ceramic with strictly pink, red, green and orange writing. Would be great. For now, only the bitterness remains, of seeing this fantastic work of art immediately catapulted. The collector sometimes sells what he has bought over time to buy new works to include in his collection. Catapulting after buying is not a world that belongs to collecting in general.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
I bought something in the last few years. Not much to tell the truth. I don't feel the need to sell either. Why sell if you bought what you liked? If you have found the space on the wall, more often than not, it becomes difficult to part with the purchased work. Catapulting like this is not a pretty thing to see. I wanted to buy that vase and put it on the shelf for the next 40 years (at least). I failed due to a number of things. Sometimes whoever has bread doesn't have teeth, and whoever has teeth doesn't have bread. I hope that Ai Weiwei will be able to sell and make others in the coming months, with differentiated transparent colors and a version in fine white Chinese ceramic with strictly pink, red, green and orange writing. Would be great. For now, only the bitterness remains, of seeing this fantastic work of art immediately catapulted. The collector sometimes sells what he has bought over time to buy new works to include in his collection. Catapulting after buying is not a world that belongs to collecting in general.
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by LJCal on Sept 5, 2023 14:58:48 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise. That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise. That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay.
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buffin
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 213
๐๐ป 253
September 2015
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by buffin on Sept 5, 2023 15:28:25 GMT 1, Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise. That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability?
Utter tosh. I'm shocked that some people are actually liking your post. What you say is demonstrably false anyway. The fact that there is a limit of one per person, shows that galleries do NOT want flippers. If they did, they would happily sell 10 or 20 to each individual. Secondly, it is not about if the contract is enforceable or not. It's about agreeing to a contract when you buy it..and then ignoring it for your own selfish reasons. You can try and twist things and make out that everybody flips stuff (I never have) and that galleries like flippers (even though they obviously don't) and that things wouldn't sell out if flippers didn't participate (another obvious lie) but it's interesting how people invent this nonsense in order to try and justify their behaviour. I think that reveals more than you realise. That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability?
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nobokov
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,948
๐๐ป 6,901
February 2016
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by nobokov on Sept 5, 2023 18:24:01 GMT 1, So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
The holding period is just to maximize resell value. Without it, everyone would feel free to list their junk on ebay. All that competition would drive the prices down. The brave few list it within a few weeks of receiving it and that sets a higher floor because of the scarcity. It's all to promote scarcity for resale, not for nobility.
So many hypocrites on here, the virtue signalling makes me feel a little nauseous. I'm always very suspicious of people who feel the need to express disapproval of others to demonstrate their own moral integrity. On this it's the OPs property he can do what he likes with it, I expect AA will give zero fucks. 90% of the items AA sell are to flippers I know because I get offered them by the boat load every day, if speculators stopped buying their editions none would sell out, it really is that simple. The holier than thou crowd need to understand that without liquidity very few artists' markets are sustainable. No one is breaking any laws, it's a simple breach of a contract which in effect is not worth the paper it's written on. These no-resale clauses are unenforceable and there are countless legal opinions setting out the reasons, however what is most compelling is not a single gallery or publisher has litigated the issue. Why? Simply because the chance of success is very slim, and even if you could put together a case which gets round some pretty big hurdles what would be the claimants loss? Arguably if it sells for more money they are better of as a result of the breach, as the value of their inventory should rise accordingly. Meh. We're part of different groups. I've never sold a piece of art and don't expect to. I also don't breach contracts. Sooner or later in life, breach enough contracts, and that one will catch up with you. I didn't express disapproval. For me, this is an Avant Arte issue. If they are going to look the other way, they're actually the hypocrites. Maybe, they should just remove the "Two Year Holding Period" and not put that text in when they offer a product for sale. I would expect the artist probably wanted that in there. He seems to endeavor to maintain a decent level of integrity. Point being, I think everyone's actual issue is with Avant Arte. If Avant Arte doesn't attempt to enforce their 'policy,' well then, they have an integrity issue. Avant Arte can connect the dots and block those selling from purchasing in the future.
For me, Cool Vase bro, but take the UAA shakedown elsewhere.
Ai Weiwei didn't need your support for this to sell out.
The holding period is just to maximize resell value. Without it, everyone would feel free to list their junk on ebay. All that competition would drive the prices down. The brave few list it within a few weeks of receiving it and that sets a higher floor because of the scarcity. It's all to promote scarcity for resale, not for nobility.
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nobokov
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,948
๐๐ป 6,901
February 2016
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by nobokov on Sept 5, 2023 18:25:54 GMT 1, That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? There's honesty in the art world?
That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? There's honesty in the art world?
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LJCal
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,980
๐๐ป 4,523
December 2019
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by LJCal on Sept 5, 2023 19:58:48 GMT 1, That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? Not really, Iโve never had an issue and Iโve bought literally hundred of works subject to no re-sale clauses. Itโs one thing to ignore a clause that doesnโt stand up legally and another to steal, I think you probably realise that.
That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? Not really, Iโve never had an issue and Iโve bought literally hundred of works subject to no re-sale clauses. Itโs one thing to ignore a clause that doesnโt stand up legally and another to steal, I think you probably realise that.
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smj43
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 110
๐๐ป 93
November 2020
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by smj43 on Sept 5, 2023 20:20:46 GMT 1, That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? For what itโs worth, Iโve bought multiple pieces from the OP and heโs always been a pleasure to deal with, decent and stuck to his word. Buy with confidence.
That's fine you have a different world view, and I'd guess a fairly limited exposure to the typical art buyer. The fact is it's a free world, you may find the result of that displeasing but I except you enjoy your freedoms, so it's a small price to pay. Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? For what itโs worth, Iโve bought multiple pieces from the OP and heโs always been a pleasure to deal with, decent and stuck to his word. Buy with confidence.
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Display_arts
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 97
๐๐ป 49
December 2021
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Display_arts on Sept 6, 2023 13:32:03 GMT 1, Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? For what itโs worth, Iโve bought multiple pieces from the OP and heโs always been a pleasure to deal with, decent and stuck to his word. Buy with confidence.
I am sorry but OP is definetly not a person who stuck to his word. You canยดt buy this piece of somebody who stuck to his word.
Surely buying something from someone who has completely disregarded something they agreed to would be a big red flag as to their honesty and reliability? For what itโs worth, Iโve bought multiple pieces from the OP and heโs always been a pleasure to deal with, decent and stuck to his word. Buy with confidence.
I am sorry but OP is definetly not a person who stuck to his word. You canยดt buy this piece of somebody who stuck to his word.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Duke Down Stairs on Sept 6, 2023 13:42:04 GMT 1, Tried really hard to get this from AA, but they had no desire to help me out.
Maybe I'll have to try this route. Or StockX.
Tried really hard to get this from AA, but they had no desire to help me out.
Maybe I'll have to try this route. Or StockX.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by its all about me on Sept 6, 2023 17:44:53 GMT 1, Tried really hard to get this from AA, but they had no desire to help me out. Maybe I'll have to try this route. Or StockX. Not sure why you're blaming AA for you not getting one. What do you mean "they had no desire to help"? What did you expect them to do exactly?
Tried really hard to get this from AA, but they had no desire to help me out. Maybe I'll have to try this route. Or StockX. Not sure why you're blaming AA for you not getting one. What do you mean "they had no desire to help"? What did you expect them to do exactly?
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Mr Duck
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 261
๐๐ป 9
August 2023
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Mr Duck on Sept 6, 2023 18:58:31 GMT 1,
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robo
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,582
๐๐ป 1,007
November 2006
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by robo on Sept 6, 2023 20:07:11 GMT 1, It actually hurts my ears when I yawn this much.
It actually hurts my ears when I yawn this much.
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Ai Weiwei Coca-Cola Glass Vase, by Fluffy Pillow on Sept 6, 2023 20:39:27 GMT 1, Resale agreements arenโt really enforceable for something that cost a few hundred quid, not commercially anyway itโs not worth it You risk your rep with the gallery though Sometimes people need the money more than they care about the risk This conversation has been had 100 times letโs not do it again Discuss the piece or move on It's not really a question of whether it is enforceable or not. When you agree to do something, you should do it. Based on statements made here it would indeed appear that you do provide fucks..
Resale agreements arenโt really enforceable for something that cost a few hundred quid, not commercially anyway itโs not worth it You risk your rep with the gallery though Sometimes people need the money more than they care about the risk This conversation has been had 100 times letโs not do it again Discuss the piece or move on It's not really a question of whether it is enforceable or not. When you agree to do something, you should do it. Based on statements made here it would indeed appear that you do provide fucks..
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