tapesta
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March 2019
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 25, 2024 20:22:51 GMT 1, I am investigating a Haring canvas signed in 87.
Any experts on here who can help?
I am investigating a Haring canvas signed in 87.
Any experts on here who can help?
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by Daniel Silk on Jul 26, 2024 0:46:07 GMT 1, I am investigating a Haring canvas signed in 87. Any experts on here who can help?
I am investigating a Haring canvas signed in 87. Any experts on here who can help? Would love it if you could post a photo of it please. |
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Onket
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January 2021
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by Onket on Jul 26, 2024 7:40:12 GMT 1, We also know he was in Germany in 1987, at Luna Luna. So definitely 'in the area'.
We also know he was in Germany in 1987, at Luna Luna. So definitely 'in the area'. |
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tapesta
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 29, 2024 10:03:31 GMT 1, Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay.
Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link:
www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026
Be interested in getting your input!
Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! |
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cemltz
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by cemltz on Jul 29, 2024 11:49:54 GMT 1, As one of the most faked artists in the world, I wouldn’t recommend chasing anything without rock solid provenance. I know we all want “barn find” pieces, but given his methods and materials, nearly impossible to get agreement that something is real.
As one of the most faked artists in the world, I wouldn’t recommend chasing anything without rock solid provenance. I know we all want “barn find” pieces, but given his methods and materials, nearly impossible to get agreement that something is real.
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by Someone Like You on Jul 29, 2024 11:59:07 GMT 1, I agree ! Haring and Warhol have 99,9% of fakes around, the case that he has made a unique work and that it is not in the RAISONNÉ catalogue are practically null or almost null.
I agree ! Haring and Warhol have 99,9% of fakes around, the case that he has made a unique work and that it is not in the RAISONNÉ catalogue are practically null or almost null.
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met
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June 2009
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by met on Jul 29, 2024 12:28:19 GMT 1, Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input!
Along with ignorance, I would say that naivety and wishful thinking are often the worst enemies of a novice collector.
Daydreaming may well have benefits in certain contexts, but you are wasting your time here with this nonsense.
My advice would be to snap out of it. You just asking for input on this particular piece is already a concern. It betrays the credulity of someone who is out of their depth, which can easily lead to expensive purchase mistakes.
Dozens of amateurs, on this forum alone, could probably do a better job of aping the style of Keith Haring.
Keep away from the fool's path of unauthenticated originals attributed to Haring.
And any galleries or auction houses you discover to be selling such works can usually be dismissed as incompetent, reckless or corrupt.
Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! Along with ignorance, I would say that naivety and wishful thinking are often the worst enemies of a novice collector. Daydreaming may well have benefits in certain contexts, but you are wasting your time here with this nonsense. My advice would be to snap out of it. You just asking for input on this particular piece is already a concern. It betrays the credulity of someone who is out of their depth, which can easily lead to expensive purchase mistakes. Dozens of amateurs, on this fo rum alone, could probably do a better job of aping the style of Keith Haring. Keep away from the fool's path of unauthenticated originals attributed to Haring.And any galleries or auction houses you discover to be selling such works can usually be dismissed as incompetent, reckless or corrupt. |
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by Fluffy Pillow on Jul 29, 2024 12:33:35 GMT 1, YOLO!
YOLO!
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tapesta
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March 2019
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 29, 2024 12:57:30 GMT 1, Thanks for the advice!
Thanks for the advice!
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cemltz
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October 2022
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by cemltz on Jul 29, 2024 13:49:53 GMT 1, I have a Haring "Pop Shop" print that has traceable ownership back to the early 90s (when these things were not really that hot, and one would assume not really worth faking). Bonham's wanted to sell it a couple years back, I felt that was peak print market, figured what the heck.
They picked it up. Inspected it. Took it to NYC. Photographed it. Planned to put it on inside cover of catalogue. Etc. Then one of their print guys said "I dunno...there's just something off..." They tore it apart, tested it a bunch of different ways, and in the end just said "we cannot get comfortable it is authentic." Which obviously is the kiss of death, and now it is an expensive paper weight! Such is life...
I have a Haring "Pop Shop" print that has traceable ownership back to the early 90s (when these things were not really that hot, and one would assume not really worth faking). Bonham's wanted to sell it a couple years back, I felt that was peak print market, figured what the heck.
They picked it up. Inspected it. Took it to NYC. Photographed it. Planned to put it on inside cover of catalogue. Etc. Then one of their print guys said "I dunno...there's just something off..." They tore it apart, tested it a bunch of different ways, and in the end just said "we cannot get comfortable it is authentic." Which obviously is the kiss of death, and now it is an expensive paper weight! Such is life...
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LJCal
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by LJCal on Jul 29, 2024 14:40:29 GMT 1, Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input!
Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con |
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tapesta
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March 2019
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 29, 2024 15:36:56 GMT 1, Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con
I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake?
Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eBay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? |
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loui
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by loui on Jul 29, 2024 15:48:49 GMT 1, A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake?
A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? Exactly. It all starts with asking the right questions. Question everything! |
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LJCal
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by LJCal on Jul 29, 2024 17:10:25 GMT 1, I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? Exactly. It all starts with asking the right questions. Question everything!
I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? Exactly. It all starts with asking the right questions. Question everything! Are you serious? It's an obvious fake, there's no question at all. |
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LJCal
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by LJCal on Jul 29, 2024 17:15:57 GMT 1, A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake?
A fake and a really bad one. A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? Price, execution, colours, lack of provenance, signature, not in catalogue raisonee. I could go into more detail but don't really want to give tips to potential fraudsters. Just be realistic anyone that was vaguely confident it was authentic would not sell it on ebay for £5k, only a con man would take that approach. I suggest you study his catalogue raisonee, and look at works sold at major auction houses, even when you start to understand the artist, absent solid provenance or Estate authentication most works however convincing are likely fakes, this one is not convincing. |
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samo
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met
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by met on Jul 30, 2024 0:12:32 GMT 1, Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eB ay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? I could go into more detail but don't really want to give tips to potential fraudsters. Just be realistic anyone that was vaguely confident it was authentic would not sell it on ebay for £5k, only a con man would take that approach. I suggest you study his catalogue raisonee, and look at works sold at major auction houses, even when you start to understand the artist, absent solid provenance or Estate authentication most works however convincing are likely fakes, this one is not convincing.
A distinction and clarification may be helpful here.
It is not the:
• low price;
• dubious provenance; and/or
• lack of official recognition,
that make this painting a bad or obvious fake.
A long-forgotten or previously-unknown, genuine Haring (or Raphael, or Van Gogh) could turn up tomorrow at a car boot sale for $10. Such circumstances are not in themselves evidence of fakery.
They are simply reasons why the likelihood of authenticity is extremely low.
Equally compelling arguments can be made about the ubiquity of counterfeits in the Haring market, and the minimal skill required to churn out a visually‑credible fake.
What actually makes this painting a bad or obvious fake is the execution and the signatures.
I too prefer to remain non‑specific here, to avoid better educating the potential chancers and scammers among us.
__________
Although an official, authoritative catalogue raisonné doesn't yet appear to exist for Haring originals, the suggestion of studying the artist's work is an excellent one — including lots sold by the major auction houses (as opposed to shady entities, who will for example accept unauthenticated, purported subway chalk drawings on consignment).
Closely (≠ casually) examining dozens or hundreds of authentic paintings will train one's eye. We then begin to almost intuitively recognise, among other things, Haring's linework and handstyle, and their slight variations or evolution over the years.
If tapesta were to put in these hours of effort and research, their future self would probably look back to 2024 and say, "I dodged a bullet there. But what on earth was I also thinking at the time? That painting was obviously fake."
Hey guys, thanks for the reply! Sorry for the delay. Looks like the viewer has tried to sell it recently on eB ay. Here is the link: www.ebay.de/itm/387143326026 Be interested in getting your input! A canvas of that size would be worth millions. Complete con I'm interested to know what it is that makes it so obviously a fake? I could go into more detail but don't really want to give tips to potential fraudsters. Just be realistic anyone that was vaguely confident it was authentic would not sell it on ebay for £5k, only a con man would take that approach. I suggest you study his catalogue raisonee, and look at works sold at major auction houses, even when you start to understand the artist, absent solid provenance or Estate authentication most works however convincing are likely fakes, this one is not convincing. A distinction and clarification may be helpful here. It is not the: • low price; • dubious provenance; and/or • lack of official recognition, that make this painting a bad or obvious fake. A long-forgotten or previously-unknown, genuine Ha ring (or Raphael, or Van Gogh) could turn up tomorrow at a car boot sale for $10. Such circumstances are not in themselves evidence of fakery. They are simply reasons why the likelihood of authenticity is extremely low. Equally compelling arguments can be made about the ubiquity of counterfeits in the Ha ring market, and the minimal skill required to churn out a visually‑credible fake. What actually makes this painting a bad or obvious fake is the execution and the signatures. I too prefer to remain non‑specific here, to avoid better educating the potential chancers and scammers among us.__________ Although an official, authoritative catalogue raisonné doesn't yet appear to exist for Ha ring originals, the suggestion of studying the artist's work is an excellent one — including lots sold by the major auction houses (as opposed to shady entities, who will for example accept unauthenticated, purported subway chalk drawings on consignment). Closely (≠ casually) examining dozens or hundreds of authentic paintings will train one's eye. We then begin to almost intuitively recognise, among other things, Ha ring's linework and handstyle, and their slight variations or evolution over the years. If tapesta were to put in these hours of effort and research, their future self would probably look back to 2024 and say, "I dodged a bullet there. But what on earth was I also thinking at the time? That painting was obviously fake." |
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LJCal
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by LJCal on Jul 30, 2024 1:36:50 GMT 1, Just as an aside Haring was in Belgium in 1987, I know of at least one mural he did. This doesn't give this piece any legitimacy but just a point of note.
Just as an aside Haring was in Belgium in 1987, I know of at least one mural he did. This doesn't give this piece any legitimacy but just a point of note.
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tapesta
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March 2019
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 30, 2024 21:44:49 GMT 1, Price, execution, colours, lack of provenance, signature, not in catalogue raisonee. I could go into more detail but don't really want to give tips to potential fraudsters. Just be realistic anyone that was vaguely confident it was authentic would not sell it on ebay for £5k, only a con man would take that approach. I suggest you study his catalogue raisonee, and look at works sold at major auction houses, even when you start to understand the artist, absent solid provenance or Estate authentication most works however convincing are likely fakes, this one is not convincing. A distinction and clarification may be helpful here. It is not the: • low price; • dubious provenance; and/or • lack of official recognition, that make this painting a bad or obvious fake. A long-forgotten or previously-unknown, genuine Ha ring (or Raphael, or Van Gogh) could turn up tomorrow at a car boot sale for $10. Such circumstances are not in themselves evidence of fakery. They are simply reasons why the likelihood of authenticity is extremely low. Equally compelling arguments can be made about the ubiquity of counterfeits in the Ha ring market, and the minimal skill required to churn out a visually‑credible fake. What actually makes this painting a bad or obvious fake is the execution and the signatures. I too prefer to remain non‑specific here, to avoid better educating the potential chancers and scammers among us.__________ Although an official, authoritative catalogue raisonné doesn't yet appear to exist for Ha ring originals, the suggestion of studying the artist's work is an excellent one — including lots sold by the major auction houses (as opposed to shady entities, who will for example accept unauthenticated, purported subway chalk drawings on consignment). Closely (≠ casually) examining dozens or hundreds of authentic paintings will train one's eye. We then begin to almost intuitively recognise, among other things, Ha ring's linework and handstyle, and their slight variations or evolution over the years. If tapesta were to put in these hours of effort and research, their future self would probably look back to 2024 and say, "I dodged a bullet there. But what on earth was I also thinking at the time? That painting was obviously fake."I appreciate all the feedback, good, bad and the ugly! Just to clarify I am a development producer working on a show looking at hundreds of submissions. I’m not at expert, I know a thing or two, but I don’t have encyclopaedic knowledge of artists. It’s really useful for me to quickly find out whether something I know nothing about has any chance so I can move on to the next one. You lot have answered that and I’m grateful! In the meantime if you want to submit potential works for Fake or Fortune? to consider in the upcoming series dm! Ta
Price, execution, colours, lack of provenance, signature, not in catalogue raisonee. I could go into more detail but don't really want to give tips to potential fraudsters. Just be realistic anyone that was vaguely confident it was authentic would not sell it on ebay for £5k, only a con man would take that approach. I suggest you study his catalogue raisonee, and look at works sold at major auction houses, even when you start to understand the artist, absent solid provenance or Estate authentication most works however convincing are likely fakes, this one is not convincing. A distinction and clarification may be helpful here. It is not the: • low price; • dubious provenance; and/or • lack of official recognition, that make this painting a bad or obvious fake. A long-forgotten or previously-unknown, genuine Ha ring (or Raphael, or Van Gogh) could turn up tomorrow at a car boot sale for $10. Such circumstances are not in themselves evidence of fakery. They are simply reasons why the likelihood of authenticity is extremely low. Equally compelling arguments can be made about the ubiquity of counterfeits in the Ha ring market, and the minimal skill required to churn out a visually‑credible fake. What actually makes this painting a bad or obvious fake is the execution and the signatures. I too prefer to remain non‑specific here, to avoid better educating the potential chancers and scammers among us.__________ Although an official, authoritative catalogue raisonné doesn't yet appear to exist for Ha ring originals, the suggestion of studying the artist's work is an excellent one — including lots sold by the major auction houses (as opposed to shady entities, who will for example accept unauthenticated, purported subway chalk drawings on consignment). Closely (≠ casually) examining dozens or hundreds of authentic paintings will train one's eye. We then begin to almost intuitively recognise, among other things, Ha ring's linework and handstyle, and their slight variations or evolution over the years. If tapesta were to put in these hours of effort and research, their future self would probably look back to 2024 and say, "I dodged a bullet there. But what on earth was I also thinking at the time? That painting was obviously fake."I appreciate all the feedback, good, bad and the ugly! Just to clarify I am a development producer working on a show looking at hundreds of submissions. I’m not at expert, I know a thing or two, but I don’t have encyclopaedic knowledge of artists. It’s really useful for me to quickly find out whether something I know nothing about has any chance so I can move on to the next one. You lot have answered that and I’m grateful! In the meantime if you want to submit potential works for Fake or Fortune? to consider in the upcoming series dm! Ta |
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met
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by met on Jul 31, 2024 2:52:24 GMT 1, I appreciate all the feedback, good, bad and the ugly! Just to clarify I am a development producer working on a show looking at hundreds of submissions. I’m not at expert, I know a thing or two, but I don’t have encyclopaedic knowledge of artists. It’s really useful for me to quickly find out whether something I know nothing about has any chance so I can move on to the next one. You lot have answered that and I’m grateful! In the meantime if you want to submit potential works for Fake or Fortune? to consider in the upcoming series dm! Ta
Good to hear that you aren't a buyer in this instance.
As previously referred to, counterfeits are widespread in the Keith Haring market.
Consequently, the number of collectors getting defrauded (inexperienced and/or youngish ones for the most part, presumably) is extraordinary. This will be the case especially for low‑level amounts, which few people pay much attention to. But the aggregate sums involved would no doubt make for a sobering read.
One only has to look at the existing and completed sales on eBay and Catawiki, gallery sales on hosting websites like Artsy, or listings on auction aggregator sites like LiveAuctioneers or Invaluable, to get some indication of the size of the problem.
There are even members of this forum who work at auction houses that have sold fakes on a not‑irregular basis. I would surmise the latter have done so knowingly — enough to make it financially worthwhile, but not so often that it draws excessive unwanted scrutiny.
Criminal punishment doesn't appear to be a big deterrent to scammers (or, where applicable, to their gallery or auction house enablers). Since the authorities are working with insufficient resources and expertise, the likelihood of anyone getting caught and successfully prosecuted is low.
For the unscrupulous, that makes fraud, and online fraud in particular, quite appealing from a risk/reward perspective.
Prevention therefore seems to be the most efficient and cost‑effective way of protecting art enthusiasts from counterfeits. A significant part of this comes down to education — helping collectors to be better informed and more aware of the minefields they tread on.
__________
As I haven't yet watched an episode of Fake or Fortune?, I am unfamiliar with the flexibility of the format of your show, or how ambitious its objectives may be.
But given what I've mentioned above, have you considered the option of featuring the fake Keith Haring painting, despite already knowing it to be counterfeit?
Raising awareness among the general public of the ubiquity of fake Harings in the market would be commendable.
Recognised professionals and experts could be invited to discuss the sheer scale of the issue, and offer some advice to budding art collectors on how to not get conned. Using the weight and worldwide prestige of the BBC to your advantage, you might even be able to extract a comment from Julia Gruen and the Keith Haring Foundation.
Such an episode of Fake or Fortune? (even if it began a bit disingenuously, with the hosts feigning ignorance about the painting's inauthenticity) could have real potential as a public service announcement.
Moreover, from your point of view as a development producer, the high profile and reputation of Keith Haring almost ensures the episode would be much discussed, and attract a significant viewing audience.
Win-win for everyone.
I appreciate all the feedback, good, bad and the ugly! Just to clarify I am a development producer working on a show looking at hundreds of submissions. I’m not at expert, I know a thing or two, but I don’t have encyclopaedic knowledge of artists. It’s really useful for me to quickly find out whether something I know nothing about has any chance so I can move on to the next one. You lot have answered that and I’m grateful! In the meantime if you want to submit potential works for Fake or Fortune? to consider in the upcoming series dm! Ta Good to hear that you aren't a buyer in this instance. As previously referred to, counterfeits are widespread in the Keith Haring market. Consequently, the number of collectors getting defrauded (inexperienced and/or youngish ones for the most part, presumably) is extraordinary. This will be the case especially for low‑level amounts, which few people pay much attention to. But the aggregate sums involved would no doubt make for a sobering read. One only has to look at the existing and completed sales on eBay and Catawiki, gallery sales on hosting websites like Artsy, or listings on auction aggregator sites like LiveAuctioneers or Invaluable, to get some indication of the size of the problem. There are even members of this fo rum who work at auction houses that have sold fakes on a not‑irregular basis. I would surmise the latter have done so knowingly — enough to make it financially worthwhile, but not so often that it draws excessive unwanted scrutiny. Criminal punishment doesn't appear to be a big deterrent to scammers (or, where applicable, to their gallery or auction house enablers). Since the authorities are working with insufficient resources and expertise, the likelihood of anyone getting caught and successfully prosecuted is low. For the unscrupulous, that makes fraud, and online fraud in particular, quite appealing from a risk/reward perspective. Prevention therefore seems to be the most efficient and cost‑effective way of protecting art enthusiasts from counterfeits. A significant part of this comes down to education — helping collectors to be better informed and more aware of the minefields they tread on. __________ As I haven't yet watched an episode of Fake or Fortune?, I am unfamiliar with the flexibility of the format of your show, or how ambitious its objectives may be. But given what I've mentioned above, have you considered the option of featuring the fake Keith Haring painting, despite already knowing it to be counterfeit? Raising awareness among the general public of the ubiquity of fake Ha rings in the market would be commendable. Recognised professionals and experts could be invited to discuss the sheer scale of the issue, and offer some advice to budding art collectors on how to not get conned. Using the weight and worldwide prestige of the BBC to your advantage, you might even be able to extract a comment from Julia Gruen and the Keith Ha ring Foundation. Such an episode of Fake or Fortune? (even if it began a bit disingenuously, with the hosts feigning ignorance about the painting's inauthenticity) could have real potential as a public service announcement. Moreover, from your point of view as a development producer, the high profile and reputation of Keith Ha ring almost ensures the episode would be much discussed, and attract a significant viewing audience. Win-win for everyone. |
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tapesta
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March 2019
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What can you tell me about Haring in Belgium 1987, by tapesta on Jul 31, 2024 19:58:34 GMT 1, Certainly would like to do a Haring, but it’s got to look right and be good enough to fool the experts. If it falls down at the first hurdle it’s a non starter.
We don’t go in to an investigation knowing an object is fake, I personally always want it to be right, but there’s no denying convincing fakes often make a better story!
Certainly would like to do a Haring, but it’s got to look right and be good enough to fool the experts. If it falls down at the first hurdle it’s a non starter.
We don’t go in to an investigation knowing an object is fake, I personally always want it to be right, but there’s no denying convincing fakes often make a better story!
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