skelly
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by skelly on Mar 23, 2009 21:20:41 GMT 1, >>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< Then my apologies but I inject humor at outlandish opportunities whenever possible. >>>The original post was do you think he will ever reach the acclaim of Bacon, surely that will be judged in 20 to 30 years time. <<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no. There is not one living artist (apart from Johns) that I would be so bold as to make such a claim. I would even say no to Hirst and Koons who are far more successful than anyone in this scene. I'm not trying to be derogatory, more a realist and an orchard/seed is simple reality. We can all enjoy the ride, but this is getting WAY ahead of oursleves. I'm not sure I agree with you. I don't think that recognition and the prices people have paid (exorbitant or not) in any way directly reflect an artists 'artistic talents'. Each of these artists has effected a generation. There are certainly current artists (shepard Fairey and Banksy come immediately to mind) that have irregardless of artistic talent found a way to appeal to the broader public. They also have a HUGE youth following. If you think about the fact that some of those youth will one day be the big investors in the art world that you speak about I don't think it's crazy to say that there are at least one or two artists who will fetch exorbitant prices in 20-30 years. Do I think these artists are as 'talented' as Van Gogh, Picasso, or Bacon? Not necessarily. What I do know is that their works, simple or not, have struck a cord in the collective mind.
I think most of the people posting on this thread did not read the question at hand...and if you do, you will find it pretty funny and out there
>>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< Then my apologies but I inject humor at outlandish opportunities whenever possible. >>>The original post was do you think he will ever reach the acclaim of Bacon, surely that will be judged in 20 to 30 years time. <<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no. There is not one living artist (apart from Johns) that I would be so bold as to make such a claim. I would even say no to Hirst and Koons who are far more successful than anyone in this scene. I'm not trying to be derogatory, more a realist and an orchard/seed is simple reality. We can all enjoy the ride, but this is getting WAY ahead of oursleves. I'm not sure I agree with you. I don't think that recognition and the prices people have paid (exorbitant or not) in any way directly reflect an artists 'artistic talents'. Each of these artists has effected a generation. There are certainly current artists (shepard Fairey and Banksy come immediately to mind) that have irregardless of artistic talent found a way to appeal to the broader public. They also have a HUGE youth following. If you think about the fact that some of those youth will one day be the big investors in the art world that you speak about I don't think it's crazy to say that there are at least one or two artists who will fetch exorbitant prices in 20-30 years. Do I think these artists are as 'talented' as Van Gogh, Picasso, or Bacon? Not necessarily. What I do know is that their works, simple or not, have struck a cord in the collective mind. I think most of the people posting on this thread did not read the question at hand...and if you do, you will find it pretty funny and out there |
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dynamixx
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by dynamixx on Mar 23, 2009 21:21:36 GMT 1, >>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no.
It's not all about money.
>>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no. It's not all about money. |
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Bram
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by Bram on Mar 23, 2009 21:36:44 GMT 1, Just to remind you, the following artists are still alive: Andreas Gursky Bruce Nauman Lucian Freud Ryan McGinley Cy Twombly Jeff Koons Gerhard Richter Ed Ruscha Frank Stella Shepard Fairey Richard Prince Anish Kapoor Takashi Murakami Don't forget David Hockney
cough cough Frank Auerbach
Just to remind you, the following artists are still alive: Andreas Gursky Bruce Nauman Lucian Freud Ryan McGinley Cy Twombly Jeff Koons Gerhard Richter Ed Ruscha Frank Stella Shepard Fairey Richard Prince Anish Kapoor Takashi Murakami Don't forget David Hockney cough cough Frank Auerbach |
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skelly
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February 2008
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by skelly on Mar 23, 2009 21:42:26 GMT 1, >>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no. It's not all about money.
This is what my last post is saying, people are not reading the question of this thread. Critical acclaim in the art world does have a direct relationship to monetary value. All of those that have reached the critical acclaim of Bacon, a million for one of their pieces is something to sell the house and all earthly belongings for because it would be the deal of the century. If you people have that sort of faith in Neate (not just person preference, he is your favorite artist) sell everything and buy as much as you can
Edit: P.S. I think Neate is one of the top three artists from the street scene..but I'm just being realistic
>>>Not for me it doesn't, thought that quote was a bit derogatory.<<< IOW, do you think that Neate (or for that matter anyone else on the scene today) will share the stage with Picasso, DeKooning, Renoir, Klimt, Johns, Warhol, Van Gogh, Cezzane, da Vinci, Miro, etc. as one of a handful of the most desirable artists to ever walk the earth? Having the artistic power to make thousands of people across the globe pay money each and every day to see their art while the wealthiest few of our species pay unimaginable prices to take possession of their work? My emphatic response is no. It's not all about money. This is what my last post is saying, people are not reading the question of this thread. Critical acclaim in the art world does have a direct relationship to monetary value. All of those that have reached the critical acclaim of Bacon, a million for one of their pieces is something to sell the house and all earthly belongings for because it would be the deal of the century. If you people have that sort of faith in Neate (not just person preference, he is your favorite artist) sell everything and buy as much as you can Edit: P.S. I think Neate is one of the top three artists from the street scene..but I'm just being realistic |
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lee3
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by lee3 on Mar 23, 2009 22:07:36 GMT 1, >>>Just to remind you, the following artists are still alive:
Andreas Gursky
Bruce Nauman
Lucian Freud
Ryan McGinley
Cy Twombly
Jeff Koons
Gerhard Richter
Ed Ruscha
Frank Stella
Shepard Fairey
Richard Prince
Anish Kapoor
Takashi Murakami <<<
I was just going off the top of my head and yes Freud belongs in that group. Twombly, Richter, Ruscha, Kapoor and Stella (and for that matter Thiebaud, Close, etc as we could go on and on) in my mind are in a different class. One could well argue Richter but I'm not much for lists anyway.
>>>It's not all about money. <<<
And I never said it was, but like it or not if you are in the upper echelon of the art world, the price of your work is going to be in another stratosphere because you are going to have won the collective desire of mankind and therefore be ridiculously expensive. So, in this case price is a pretty damn good reflection of talent at the top level like it or not. If you change the way the public looks at art or have a significant impact on the artists after you, your work will be expensive. Banksy has done quite well for a 30 something year old and his pricing reflects it. But to suggest him or any of the others on the lists above as ever being of equal importance as Bacon is just silly in my mind. Most likely that collective decision will be made long after we are all gone anyway so just enjoy the work on your walls.
And one more thing, spare me on Murukami. Turn your sarcasm meter on if that last statement hurt anyone's feelings.
>>>Just to remind you, the following artists are still alive:
Andreas Gursky
Bruce Nauman
Lucian Freud
Ryan McGinley
Cy Twombly
Jeff Koons
Gerhard Richter
Ed Ruscha
Frank Stella
Shepard Fairey
Richard Prince
Anish Kapoor
Takashi Murakami <<<
I was just going off the top of my head and yes Freud belongs in that group. Twombly, Richter, Ruscha, Kapoor and Stella (and for that matter Thiebaud, Close, etc as we could go on and on) in my mind are in a different class. One could well argue Richter but I'm not much for lists anyway.
>>>It's not all about money. <<<
And I never said it was, but like it or not if you are in the upper echelon of the art world, the price of your work is going to be in another stratosphere because you are going to have won the collective desire of mankind and therefore be ridiculously expensive. So, in this case price is a pretty damn good reflection of talent at the top level like it or not. If you change the way the public looks at art or have a significant impact on the artists after you, your work will be expensive. Banksy has done quite well for a 30 something year old and his pricing reflects it. But to suggest him or any of the others on the lists above as ever being of equal importance as Bacon is just silly in my mind. Most likely that collective decision will be made long after we are all gone anyway so just enjoy the work on your walls.
And one more thing, spare me on Murukami. Turn your sarcasm meter on if that last statement hurt anyone's feelings.
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by wiz on Mar 23, 2009 22:16:09 GMT 1, Murukami? does cartoons that one?  . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob.
Murukami? does cartoons that one? . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob. |
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Francis
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by Francis on Mar 23, 2009 22:27:23 GMT 1, Murukami? does cartoons that one? . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob.
This guy:
Murukami? does cartoons that one? . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob. This guy: |
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by wiz on Mar 23, 2009 22:33:49 GMT 1, Cheers Francis  , i know Murukamis works but i have always thought them to be cartoonish.
Cheers Francis , i know Murukamis works but i have always thought them to be cartoonish. |
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lee3
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by lee3 on Mar 23, 2009 22:46:54 GMT 1, And to think someone paid around $15 million for that sperm boy/lonesome cowboy (if i recall correctly it's an edition of 5) just last May. I'd be shocked to see it bring in $4 million now, which is still ridiculously high.
And to think someone paid around $15 million for that sperm boy/lonesome cowboy (if i recall correctly it's an edition of 5) just last May. I'd be shocked to see it bring in $4 million now, which is still ridiculously high.
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dynamixx
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August 2006
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by dynamixx on Mar 23, 2009 22:54:32 GMT 1, >>>It's not all about money. <<< And I never said it was but like it or not if you are in the upper echelon of the art world, the price of your work is going to be in another stratosphere because you are going to have won the collective desire of mankind and therefore be ridiculously expensive. So, in this case price is a pretty damn good reflection of talent at the top level like it or not.
Talent is only quantifiable by prices up to a very finite point. Money is a very crude barometer for many things, including the strength of any artist.
Of course. But I'm always wary of those who use prices as a absolute measuring stick for artistic quality, and talk about art in the same terms as investments and stocks. It's sometimes worth remembering that an artist's images came first, and the hefty price tags came later, in many cases decades after the artist died.
I for one look forward to seeing what the "seed" Neate grows into; the early shoots are full of promise.
>>>It's not all about money. <<< And I never said it was but like it or not if you are in the upper echelon of the art world, the price of your work is going to be in another stratosphere because you are going to have won the collective desire of mankind and therefore be ridiculously expensive. So, in this case price is a pretty damn good reflection of talent at the top level like it or not. Talent is only quantifiable by prices up to a very finite point. Money is a very crude barometer for many things, including the strength of any artist. Of course. But I'm always wary of those who use prices as a absolute measuring stick for artistic quality, and talk about art in the same terms as investments and stocks. It's sometimes worth remembering that an artist's images came first, and the hefty price tags came later, in many cases decades after the artist died. I for one look forward to seeing what the "seed" Neate grows into; the early shoots are full of promise. |
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by junkieart on Mar 23, 2009 23:10:24 GMT 1, Nice post dynamix!! And Lee8 just out of interest would be interested in your view who will be remembered from 1990/2000?
Its been a constant every decade in the past??
Nice post dynamix!! And Lee8 just out of interest would be interested in your view who will be remembered from 1990/2000?
Its been a constant every decade in the past??
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lee3
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by lee3 on Mar 23, 2009 23:46:49 GMT 1, >>>But I'm always wary of those who use prices as a absolute measuring stick for artistic quality<<<
For the 3rd time, I am not using price alone. I will argue however that for the upper echelon artists (however you want to describe it- I'll arbitrarily pick artists that have sold for $50 million or more) it is an EXCELLENT barometer with near 100% accuracy as to both talent and influence. That's not to suggest that there aren't artists that were more talented or influential that never achieved such pricing, but the ones that have were and/or are.
>>>It's sometimes worth remembering that an artist's images came first, and the hefty price tags came later, in many cases decades after the artist died.<<<
Which is why i can't believe i'm wasting my time in this thread. As I said in my previous post don't worry about it, enjoy the work on the walls, and let the generations after we have died decide.
>>>And Lee8 just out of interest would be interested in your view who will be remembered from 1990/2000<<<
Again, I have no idea as there is not one artist from that time period that I personally would suggest will ever reach the level that Bacon occupies within art history. Hirst imo could make a nice footnote for embracing and capitalizing on capitalism near its zenith (if in fact that was its zenith).
I'm sorry, no offense to anyone in this thread but this thing sounded like a giant joke to me and I've posted far more within it than I ever intended or desired.
>>>But I'm always wary of those who use prices as a absolute measuring stick for artistic quality<<<
For the 3rd time, I am not using price alone. I will argue however that for the upper echelon artists (however you want to describe it- I'll arbitrarily pick artists that have sold for $50 million or more) it is an EXCELLENT barometer with near 100% accuracy as to both talent and influence. That's not to suggest that there aren't artists that were more talented or influential that never achieved such pricing, but the ones that have were and/or are.
>>>It's sometimes worth remembering that an artist's images came first, and the hefty price tags came later, in many cases decades after the artist died.<<<
Which is why i can't believe i'm wasting my time in this thread. As I said in my previous post don't worry about it, enjoy the work on the walls, and let the generations after we have died decide.
>>>And Lee8 just out of interest would be interested in your view who will be remembered from 1990/2000<<<
Again, I have no idea as there is not one artist from that time period that I personally would suggest will ever reach the level that Bacon occupies within art history. Hirst imo could make a nice footnote for embracing and capitalizing on capitalism near its zenith (if in fact that was its zenith).
I'm sorry, no offense to anyone in this thread but this thing sounded like a giant joke to me and I've posted far more within it than I ever intended or desired.
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mike hunt
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by mike hunt on Mar 24, 2009 0:03:43 GMT 1, gotta say, I think Lee is talking sense. I like to think Freud will have the place in art history. I like the work of his friend Leon Kossoff as well, but ideas and fashions change and they may become irrelevant for future generations - or important.
gotta say, I think Lee is talking sense. I like to think Freud will have the place in art history. I like the work of his friend Leon Kossoff as well, but ideas and fashions change and they may become irrelevant for future generations - or important.
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by junkieart on Mar 24, 2009 0:05:57 GMT 1, >Which is why i can't believe i'm wasting my time in this thread. As I said in my previous post don't worry about it, enjoy the work on the walls, and let the generations after we have died decide. <
Lee, then why comment at all? You now sound like a pompous dick! Every decade has brought a hero of the art scene? Why not this scene?
>Which is why i can't believe i'm wasting my time in this thread. As I said in my previous post don't worry about it, enjoy the work on the walls, and let the generations after we have died decide. <
Lee, then why comment at all? You now sound like a pompous dick! Every decade has brought a hero of the art scene? Why not this scene?
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lee3
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by lee3 on Mar 24, 2009 0:16:28 GMT 1, >>>Lee, then why comment at all?<<<
i made a joke at an outlandish comment and then got sucked into this.
>>>You now sound like a pompous d**k! <<<
my apologies, and if that's the case, then please put me on ignore if that is possible at this site.
i'll politely bow out of this "discussion"
>>>Lee, then why comment at all?<<<
i made a joke at an outlandish comment and then got sucked into this.
>>>You now sound like a pompous d**k! <<<
my apologies, and if that's the case, then please put me on ignore if that is possible at this site.
i'll politely bow out of this "discussion"
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skanky
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by skanky on Mar 24, 2009 8:47:07 GMT 1, That last comment about Lee was over the top imo. Always enjoy your posts Lee.
That last comment about Lee was over the top imo. Always enjoy your posts Lee.
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by junkieart on Mar 24, 2009 9:19:13 GMT 1, Lee, sorry I do apologise, was a bit over the top, bad day and all that!.
Lee, sorry I do apologise, was a bit over the top, bad day and all that!.
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by wiz on Mar 24, 2009 10:11:27 GMT 1, Both Lee and JA are gents, i was surprised when i read that last night and i just knew you must have had a bad day or something JA.
Both Lee and JA are gents, i was surprised when i read that last night and i just knew you must have had a bad day or something JA.
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by thegreatarchitect on Mar 24, 2009 15:56:19 GMT 1, Murukami? does cartoons that one? . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob. This guy:
The sculptural piece look like a hybrid of Cooms and a Manga comic,
Murukami? does cartoons that one? . I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob. This guy: The sculptural piece look like a hybrid of Cooms and a Manga comic, |
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by thegreatarchitect on Mar 24, 2009 15:58:12 GMT 1, The sculptural pieces look like a hybrid of Cooms and a Manga comic, reflecting no justification in the prices.
The sculptural pieces look like a hybrid of Cooms and a Manga comic, reflecting no justification in the prices. |
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Francis Bacon and Adam Neate., by chav on Mar 26, 2009 20:03:41 GMT 1, if neate was a raging nutter then he would stand a better chance, maybe he should cut his ear off or something 
Looks like a raging nutter to me..... This clip was filmed on the ward - they make him paint on mats because it's safer for him, (they also took his scissors away, so if you've ever wondered why his paintings are so rough round the edges now you know why)
if neate was a raging nutter then he would stand a better chance, maybe he should cut his ear off or something Looks like a raging nutter to me..... This clip was filmed on the ward - they make him paint on mats because it's safer for him, (they also took his scissors away, so if you've ever wondered why his paintings are so rough round the edges now you know why) |
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. I left a bid with someone for a Kurumata chair at a sale and they bid for the bloody Murukami by mistake! didnt get it though thank Bob.
, i know Murukamis works but i have always thought them to be cartoonish.
