BK83
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October 2006
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by BK83 on May 8, 2009 6:11:40 GMT 1, i had the pleasure of going out on a pasting mission with thierry while he was in NYC last september. I like the guy. He's a good mate, but Raiden is dead on here. Thierry even told me that Banksy took the footage and "planned" to turn the cameras back on to him to finsih the movie.... who knows. He's an affable guy with the gift of the gab. Art is like any other product a lot of the time you're just buying into a some clever marketing ploy that's become a brand. so whether or not his art is good or bad doesn't even matter.
i had the pleasure of going out on a pasting mission with thierry while he was in NYC last september. I like the guy. He's a good mate, but Raiden is dead on here. Thierry even told me that Banksy took the footage and "planned" to turn the cameras back on to him to finsih the movie.... who knows. He's an affable guy with the gift of the gab. Art is like any other product a lot of the time you're just buying into a some clever marketing ploy that's become a brand. so whether or not his art is good or bad doesn't even matter.
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BK83
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,604
๐๐ป 10
October 2006
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by BK83 on May 8, 2009 6:12:21 GMT 1, btw -- it's late and i'm not interested in correct punctuation or proper grammatical structure.
btw -- it's late and i'm not interested in correct punctuation or proper grammatical structure.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by eddiedangerous on May 8, 2009 7:23:43 GMT 1, Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful
yes agree... best post ive read on here in months.
so can the numpty pasting "banksy is french" pastes everywhere just fuck off now. thanks
wanker
Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful yes agree... best post ive read on here in months. so can the numpty pasting "banksy is french" pastes everywhere just fuck off now. thanks wanker
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darrenrapley
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June 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by darrenrapley on May 8, 2009 7:59:34 GMT 1, I learnt a lot by reading that post. Cheers
I learnt a lot by reading that post. Cheers
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cadeallaw
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December 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by cadeallaw on May 8, 2009 14:29:16 GMT 1, Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful
I'm not going to waste my time typing out another lengthy response to yet another one of this kid's off point and moot statements regarding Mr. Brainwash. If it makes you feel better, you can use the same counter argument that I use in this thread as Raiden continues to make the same non-meritorious points over and over again: urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35370&page=1
I continue to stand by my uncircumcised penis remark
Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful I'm not going to waste my time typing out another lengthy response to yet another one of this kid's off point and moot statements regarding Mr. Brainwash. If it makes you feel better, you can use the same counter argument that I use in this thread as Raiden continues to make the same non-meritorious points over and over again: urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35370&page=1I continue to stand by my uncircumcised pe nis remark
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by Daniel Silk on May 8, 2009 14:33:19 GMT 1, Cool down a bit people
Cool down a bit people
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by snausages on May 8, 2009 15:17:33 GMT 1, Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful I'd rather see this than multiple long winded thesis statements about why this guy thinks this others guy art is baloney.
Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful I'd rather see this than multiple long winded thesis statements about why this guy thinks this others guy art is baloney.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by wiz on May 8, 2009 16:37:36 GMT 1, Cool down a bit people
Its all coolio Silky, im sure Mr. Branflake wouldnt want any aggro , its all just about pretty pictures innit?.
Cool down a bit people Its all coolio Silky, im sure Mr. Branflake wouldnt want any aggro , its all just about pretty pictures innit?.
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jimbob68
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January 2009
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by jimbob68 on May 8, 2009 16:52:47 GMT 1, Well Im not new to the established art market but i amnew to street art and i found it an educational post!!! its funny that someone is posting BANKSY IS FRENCH posters arou nd. Its like the easiest oldest english insult isnt it? I will stick to just buying what I like and not jumping on the hype bandwagons!!
Well Im not new to the established art market but i amnew to street art and i found it an educational post!!! its funny that someone is posting BANKSY IS FRENCH posters arou nd. Its like the easiest oldest english insult isnt it? I will stick to just buying what I like and not jumping on the hype bandwagons!!
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cadeallaw
New Member
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December 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by cadeallaw on May 8, 2009 19:41:06 GMT 1, Well Im not new to the established art market but i amnew to street art and i found it an educational post!!!
I bet that I can find blawg on the interwebz of someone rambling on for pages about how Smurfs are real, would that also be educational?
I will stick to just buying what I like and not jumping on the hype bandwagons!!
That is what collecting art should be all about, shouldn't it? Buy what you like? Now let's say some goofball continuously posts that you shouldn't like a certain popular artist for a variety reasons based mostly on factual untruths and speculation, wouldn't that get a little old?
Well Im not new to the established art market but i amnew to street art and i found it an educational post!!! I bet that I can find blawg on the interwebz of someone rambling on for pages about how Smurfs are real, would that also be educational? I will stick to just buying what I like and not jumping on the hype bandwagons!! That is what collecting art should be all about, shouldn't it? Buy what you like? Now let's say some goofball continuously posts that you shouldn't like a certain popular artist for a variety reasons based mostly on factual untruths and speculation, wouldn't that get a little old?
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by Daniel Silk on May 8, 2009 19:50:12 GMT 1, I actually like some of Brainwashes work ;D Dont have any yet, always looked a bit pricey to me But I can certainly see the attraction of it ;D
I actually like some of Brainwashes work ;D Dont have any yet, always looked a bit pricey to me But I can certainly see the attraction of it ;D
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raiden
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April 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by raiden on May 10, 2009 10:30:02 GMT 1, First, Cadeallaw... I don't make any counter factual claims. I even go so far as to delineate opinion from fact.
What are the UNTRUTHS that you're saying this "Goofball" has? I'm just passing along information 1) That Shepard Fairey told me directly 2) that I've heard from Thierry directly or 3) That I directly witnessed (i.e. seeing his tags and stencils around town, including one on the old Paul Frank store on Crescent everyday on my way to work back in 2006.) Only the details about the production of his "Life is Beautiful" show came from second hand sources - but they seemed reliable and had some evidence of their own to back up their claims.
I generally pass on pretty good information on this board. While I've been quiet lately because I've been buying less, I still go to an art shows pretty much every week - so I hear plenty of stuff.
So what VERSION of the truth are you trying to pine for in order so that your collection of 3 MBW works to go up in value???
I've met Thierry on a number of occasions. Believe me, I wish he produced more work I liked and was more substantive as an artist - because he's a nice guy.
But there is plenty of shit that bothers me about him as an artist (speaking personally):
1) He bites off other artists concepts constantly
2) He buffs other people's work to put up his own - including one of my favorite Banksys on Melrose.
3) His work is way more ego driven than artistically driven.
4) He is trying to buy his way into an art career because he's a rich kid. (Ironic that in your [Cadeallaw] other thread you try to assail my credentials by saying I'm a Hipster, when MBW is like king trust fund, hipster. He dresses hipster and hangs with the most obnoxious celebrity wannabe hipsters)
5) Mr. Brainwash is 99% hype and lacks much substance as an artist. And as you conceded yourself, Cadeallaw, "Mr Brainwash has the hype thing down pat, which is really what 98% of the art business is all about (maybe 99%?)" I don't think that's a good thing.
As for my use of "Colour"... this is a UK based message board... So often I'll include the "u." When I post on American based message boards, I spell it "color." There is nothing "faux" British to understanding globalism and acknowledging linguistic differences.
As for the "stereotype" - THE SHOE FITS.... Period. The amount of complete idiocy about the broader art world and even about MBW himself that I hear coming from the mouths of MBW adherents routinely blows my mind so no, I don't consider them sophisticated art buyers... I spoke to at least 5 people who purchased pieces at the "Life Is Beautiful" Show and several of them had never even heard of Banksy. You have Carson Daily calling him "The Most Recognizable Street Artist in The World" - I'm supposed to call that a sophisticated assessment? You mention Britney Spears and Rob Dyrdek own his work... Sophisticated??? There are some important celebrity collectors out there, these two are not counted among that group. While I welcome new people to this board, I wouldn't typify the quote "I live in LA and I recently became exposed of Mr. Brainwash's work, which I find , is influenced by Banksy a great deal," full of sophistication.
And even by street art standards, its not like Thierry has been improving his reception among art's "sophisticated" set - namely gallery owners, frequent auction buyers, reviewers, etc.. (NOTE the Quotes - semantically I get that ths set isn't necessarily inherently sophisticated) While establishment approval is hardly the kiss of death for an artist, particularly in the urban realm, it says something that a guy puts on that big of an art show, pastes the hell out of Art Basel, and covers LA, and still gets no love from the "sophisticated" art world.
So yes, its a stereotype, but its an apt one. Largely his fan base is unsophisticated art buyers, many of whom are LA psuedo-hipsters.
Oh, and Cadeallaw, should I take the comment ""Keep living in your fishbowl you faux british uncircumsized p***s" as a sign of the sophistication of MBW buyers???
But I never make the point that EVERYONE who owns an MBW is inherently unsophisticated. For one, I own a Mr Brainwash "Life Is Beautiful" because I think it fits well with my collection of LA based artists, it was cheap on the 'Bay, I liked what it said, I like Alfred Hitchcock, and to put it semi-derisively, its "cute."
I've never been against buying what you like... if you love your MBW prints, go for it.
But point to your own eventual concession to Rene Gagnon that "Objectively, I think that the biggest criticism of Mr. Brainwash should lie in the fact that he has blatently ripped off ideas from artists who are either on the same plain popularity-wise or less. I really have no problems with the Warhol emulation because i feel that that Warhol is fair game; it is taking ideas from artists such as Rene Gagnon, Fake, and Zev that i have a problem with. "
I find it vexing that after saying he "objectively" "ripped off ideas" you'd go to the mat for MBW? This was what pretty much turned me from a casual admirer of his tags I'd see on the way to work, and later a casual acquaintance of his, into a critic.
And may I just reiterate once again two main conclusions:
1) 95% of MBW's work is schlock and the other 5% is overpriced.
2) At best, MBW will wind up as the Steve Kaufman of the Urban Era scene.
First, Cadeallaw... I don't make any counter factual claims. I even go so far as to delineate opinion from fact. What are the UNTRUTHS that you're saying this "Goofball" has? I'm just passing along information 1) That Shepard Fairey told me directly 2) that I've heard from Thierry directly or 3) That I directly witnessed (i.e. seeing his tags and stencils around town, including one on the old Paul Frank store on Crescent everyday on my way to work back in 2006.) Only the details about the production of his "Life is Beautiful" show came from second hand sources - but they seemed reliable and had some evidence of their own to back up their claims. I generally pass on pretty good information on this board. While I've been quiet lately because I've been buying less, I still go to an art shows pretty much every week - so I hear plenty of stuff. So what VERSION of the truth are you trying to pine for in order so that your collection of 3 MBW works to go up in value??? I've met Thierry on a number of occasions. Believe me, I wish he produced more work I liked and was more substantive as an artist - because he's a nice guy. But there is plenty of shit that bothers me about him as an artist (speaking personally): 1) He bites off other artists concepts constantly 2) He buffs other people's work to put up his own - including one of my favorite Banksys on Melrose. 3) His work is way more ego driven than artistically driven. 4) He is trying to buy his way into an art career because he's a rich kid. (Ironic that in your [Cadeallaw] other thread you try to assail my credentials by saying I'm a Hipster, when MBW is like king trust fund, hipster. He dresses hipster and hangs with the most obnoxious celebrity wannabe hipsters) 5) Mr. Brainwash is 99% hype and lacks much substance as an artist. And as you conceded yourself, Cadeallaw, "Mr Brainwash has the hype thing down pat, which is really what 98% of the art business is all about (maybe 99%?)" I don't think that's a good thing. As for my use of "Colour"... this is a UK based message board... So often I'll include the "u." When I post on American based message boards, I spell it "color." There is nothing "faux" British to understanding globalism and acknowledging linguistic differences. As for the "stereotype" - THE SHOE FITS.... Period. The amount of complete idiocy about the broader art world and even about MBW himself that I hear coming from the mouths of MBW adherents routinely blows my mind so no, I don't consider them sophisticated art buyers... I spoke to at least 5 people who purchased pieces at the "Life Is Beautiful" Show and several of them had never even heard of Banksy. You have Carson Daily calling him "The Most Recognizable Street Artist in The World" - I'm supposed to call that a sophisticated assessment? You mention Britney Spears and Rob Dyrdek own his work... Sophisticated??? There are some important celebrity collectors out there, these two are not counted among that group. While I welcome new people to this board, I wouldn't typify the quote "I live in LA and I recently became exposed of Mr. Brainwash's work, which I find , is influenced by Banksy a great deal," full of sophistication. And even by street art standards, its not like Thierry has been improving his reception among art's "sophisticated" set - namely gallery owners, frequent auction buyers, reviewers, etc.. (NOTE the Quotes - semantically I get that ths set isn't necessarily inherently sophisticated) While establishment approval is hardly the kiss of death for an artist, particularly in the urban realm, it says something that a guy puts on that big of an art show, pastes the hell out of Art Basel, and covers LA, and still gets no love from the "sophisticated" art world. So yes, its a stereotype, but its an apt one. Largely his fan base is unsophisticated art buyers, many of whom are LA psuedo-hipsters. Oh, and Cadeallaw, should I take the comment ""Keep living in your fishbowl you faux british uncircumsized p***s" as a sign of the sophistication of MBW buyers??? But I never make the point that EVERYONE who owns an MBW is inherently unsophisticated. For one, I own a Mr Brainwash "Life Is Beautiful" because I think it fits well with my collection of LA based artists, it was cheap on the 'Bay, I liked what it said, I like Alfred Hitchcock, and to put it semi-derisively, its "cute." I've never been against buying what you like... if you love your MBW prints, go for it. But point to your own eventual concession to Rene Gagnon that "Objectively, I think that the biggest criticism of Mr. Brainwash should lie in the fact that he has blatently ripped off ideas from artists who are either on the same plain popularity-wise or less. I really have no problems with the Warhol emulation because i feel that that Warhol is fair game; it is taking ideas from artists such as Rene Gagnon, Fake, and Zev that i have a problem with. " I find it vexing that after saying he "objectively" "ripped off ideas" you'd go to the mat for MBW? This was what pretty much turned me from a casual admirer of his tags I'd see on the way to work, and later a casual acquaintance of his, into a critic. And may I just reiterate once again two main conclusions: 1) 95% of MBW's work is schlock and the other 5% is overpriced. 2) At best, MBW will wind up as the Steve Kaufman of the Urban Era scene.
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holden
New Member
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July 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by holden on May 10, 2009 11:19:14 GMT 1, Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful I'd rather see this than multiple long winded thesis statements about why this guy thinks this others guy art is baloney.
its the high octane stimulation that this retort gives, dont ya think??
do ya?
reminded me i need to pay my child aftercare fees
Its refreshing on this site to see a well thought out counter argument, thank you also cadeallaw.....very insightful I'd rather see this than multiple long winded thesis statements about why this guy thinks this others guy art is baloney. its the high octane stimulation that this retort gives, dont ya think?? do ya? reminded me i need to pay my child aftercare fees
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by Deleted on May 10, 2009 11:54:13 GMT 1, Spoof.
Spoof.
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jonvespa
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December 2006
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by jonvespa on May 10, 2009 16:44:34 GMT 1, raiden, you live in LA i assume? sure we've seen each other around. im in the LBC.
..and (going off on a tangent) mark the cobrasnake isnt a bad guy. he has worked hard for what success he has. i first met him at sxsw in austin in 2002 when he was working for shep...then he did polaroid scene, and finally cobrasnake. he hussles. i wish him the best. he works harder than duffman. and say what you will about steve, but rather than just sit by the pool spending the onion volcano inheritance, he has built quite an empire....his label, dance clubs, dj appearances, and clothing company (well, he has done some great designs, but it never really took off, eh?).....there are plenty of LA kids sitting around doing nothing with pop's dough, good for him for helping create a "scene"...although i am def not a part of it...i have done several dim mak nights at my venue, and those people were a pleasure to deal with.
jon
raiden, you live in LA i assume? sure we've seen each other around. im in the LBC.
..and (going off on a tangent) mark the cobrasnake isnt a bad guy. he has worked hard for what success he has. i first met him at sxsw in austin in 2002 when he was working for shep...then he did polaroid scene, and finally cobrasnake. he hussles. i wish him the best. he works harder than duffman. and say what you will about steve, but rather than just sit by the pool spending the onion volcano inheritance, he has built quite an empire....his label, dance clubs, dj appearances, and clothing company (well, he has done some great designs, but it never really took off, eh?).....there are plenty of LA kids sitting around doing nothing with pop's dough, good for him for helping create a "scene"...although i am def not a part of it...i have done several dim mak nights at my venue, and those people were a pleasure to deal with.
jon
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romanywg
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,093
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October 2006
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by romanywg on May 10, 2009 19:16:06 GMT 1, Excellent posts raiden. Now I know the gossip I have heard about Banksys new film all falls into place. But.... I do own a couple Kaufmans..... but would never own an MBW.
Excellent posts raiden. Now I know the gossip I have heard about Banksys new film all falls into place. But.... I do own a couple Kaufmans..... but would never own an MBW.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by graeme501 on May 10, 2009 19:55:09 GMT 1, the one thing that dissapoints me after reading this thread that no-one else has picked up on is that there seems to be a 'plan to be a successful street artist' that on the face of things seems to work that people are following
makes everything seem a bit like advertising or PR now
the one thing that dissapoints me after reading this thread that no-one else has picked up on is that there seems to be a 'plan to be a successful street artist' that on the face of things seems to work that people are following
makes everything seem a bit like advertising or PR now
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by hero on May 10, 2009 20:09:20 GMT 1, just to clear all up, the link between MBW and Banksy is that
MBW met banksy at cans, banksy then decided that he liked MBW's work, as a result he decided to help him out, he drew him up a schedule for the following 12 months and MBW has followed this to the letter
H
just to clear all up, the link between MBW and Banksy is that
MBW met banksy at cans, banksy then decided that he liked MBW's work, as a result he decided to help him out, he drew him up a schedule for the following 12 months and MBW has followed this to the letter
H
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by hero on May 10, 2009 20:37:37 GMT 1, sorry if i got the wrong idea from what MBW said
H
sorry if i got the wrong idea from what MBW said H
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raiden
New Member
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April 2008
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by raiden on May 10, 2009 20:45:33 GMT 1, Hey Jon
I didn't at all want to imply that Mark or Steve don't hustle - its evident based on what they've built up that they both work hard. Should have been more careful with the phasing when I said "I would see [Thierry] hanging out with Mark the Cobrasnake and DJ Steve Aoki - basically behaving as your typical rich, trust fund, wannabe art scene guy."
I didn't mean for it to be read as though Mark and Steve are grouped in as "trust fund, wannabe art scene guys," so much as that Thierry frequented the trust fund and psuedo celeb world that orbits Mark and Steve. It was a minor point that I just included to 1) dispel this ridiculous claim he is Banksy and not his own person 2) provide some details about who Thierry is.
I know Mark and Steve a little bit, both hustle. Mark came from a semi-upper middle class background and worked hard for years to become the top photographer of night life culture in this decade. While he's mostly been received as a fun, kooky photoblog documentarian -- I wouldn't at all be surprised to see some serious museum retrospectives of Mark's work in 20 years.
I still remember when Aoki could barely DJ, but he's now extremely talented and has created a mini-empire with his many different business ventures...
So I'll second what you said Jon.
Hey Jon
I didn't at all want to imply that Mark or Steve don't hustle - its evident based on what they've built up that they both work hard. Should have been more careful with the phasing when I said "I would see [Thierry] hanging out with Mark the Cobrasnake and DJ Steve Aoki - basically behaving as your typical rich, trust fund, wannabe art scene guy."
I didn't mean for it to be read as though Mark and Steve are grouped in as "trust fund, wannabe art scene guys," so much as that Thierry frequented the trust fund and psuedo celeb world that orbits Mark and Steve. It was a minor point that I just included to 1) dispel this ridiculous claim he is Banksy and not his own person 2) provide some details about who Thierry is.
I know Mark and Steve a little bit, both hustle. Mark came from a semi-upper middle class background and worked hard for years to become the top photographer of night life culture in this decade. While he's mostly been received as a fun, kooky photoblog documentarian -- I wouldn't at all be surprised to see some serious museum retrospectives of Mark's work in 20 years.
I still remember when Aoki could barely DJ, but he's now extremely talented and has created a mini-empire with his many different business ventures...
So I'll second what you said Jon.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by hero on May 10, 2009 20:55:18 GMT 1, sorry if i got the wrong idea from what MBW said H Did he tell you to put your head in an oven too? ;D ;D ;D
it was in a video interview with him, and he did show it off as well,
H
sorry if i got the wrong idea from what MBW said H Did he tell you to put your head in an oven too? ;D ;D ;D it was in a video interview with him, and he did show it off as well, H
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instinct
New Member
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October 2007
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by instinct on May 10, 2009 21:17:49 GMT 1, FYO Hero; banksy had been rolling with MBW in LA quite some time before cans.
FYO Hero; banksy had been rolling with MBW in LA quite some time before cans.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by snausages on May 10, 2009 22:53:48 GMT 1, I don't have a strong argument to support the idea that MBW is a great artist. But what should be said is that their is a problem with people criticizing MBW by comparing his work to other artists who arguably have an equal lack credibility or originality. The basis for the argument becomes worthless when put it's put in context of the other artists you're weighing him against.
The issue is I could make these statements about A LOT of the artists on this forum. This could easily apply to Fairey, Eelus, Walker on and on. Again, I'm not saying MBW's great but his 'biting' is conceptually driven and done with more panache and or humour than most of the artists in this scene who are guilty of the same thing. Now I can't say this applies to other artists. ...but seriously, what does any previous wealth have to do with artistic merit, and what the hell does it matter to you what kind of clothes he wears? Why does it matter if he's a hipster or not or even a want to be hipster? I mean have you ever read a good critical review where they characterized the work in the terms you have?
The statements you make are easily interchangeable and have nothing to do with MBW, if you don't like him fine. If you're going to write a multi-page thesis about why his art sucks I'd expect something more insightful than things likeI could very easily say this about Fairey and his fans and the majority of artists mentioned around here and their fans.
If you want to buy a serious MBW piece you probably want to contact Guy Hepner. How prestigious a gallery like Hepner is, is up for debate. But it's definitely a lot more prestigious than the galleries or lack thereof that many artists in this scene will ever deal with. Sure you're not talking about Shepard Fairey here? ;D
Finally, I appreciate you making a point about the work. Again I think MBW can get away with it because that is his schtick, I think he passes it off relatively well. That he's cannibalizing the scene. He's feeding off the scene he mocks. It's a new spin on pop art. Who cares about ripping off Warhol any more, it's been done so many times. It's funny that he's ripping on our cultures fascination with ripping on Warhol. It's funny that he's ripping on the currently popular scene. I like it as an idea, maybe it's not revolutionary maybe it is? But it's more of a unique spin and concept than I see from most people around here. The work is pop arty, it's street arty, it's appropriate for our times, it's funny. It's miles ahead of ripping off work and style and claiming it as your own without thinking through the conceptual reasons for ripping it off. But if we can't agree on this point then it's fine.
And I'm not a huge fan of MBW, I don't think the spin is always that great, I don't think the execution is always that great, a lot of it is total crap, but I still think a select few of his pieces are miles better than all of the work I've seen by a number of artists touted on this forum.
But, unfortunately again, more points that mean nothing except to you.
I don't have a strong argument to support the idea that MBW is a great artist. But what should be said is that their is a problem with people criticizing MBW by comparing his work to other artists who arguably have an equal lack credibility or originality. The basis for the argument becomes worthless when put it's put in context of the other artists you're weighing him against.
The issue is I could make these statements about A LOT of the artists on this forum. This could easily apply to Fairey, Eelus, Walker on and on. Again, I'm not saying MBW's great but his 'biting' is conceptually driven and done with more panache and or humour than most of the artists in this scene who are guilty of the same thing. Now I can't say this applies to other artists. ...but seriously, what does any previous wealth have to do with artistic merit, and what the hell does it matter to you what kind of clothes he wears? Why does it matter if he's a hipster or not or even a want to be hipster? I mean have you ever read a good critical review where they characterized the work in the terms you have?
The statements you make are easily interchangeable and have nothing to do with MBW, if you don't like him fine. If you're going to write a multi-page thesis about why his art sucks I'd expect something more insightful than things likeI could very easily say this about Fairey and his fans and the majority of artists mentioned around here and their fans.
If you want to buy a serious MBW piece you probably want to contact Guy Hepner. How prestigious a gallery like Hepner is, is up for debate. But it's definitely a lot more prestigious than the galleries or lack thereof that many artists in this scene will ever deal with. Sure you're not talking about Shepard Fairey here? ;D
Finally, I appreciate you making a point about the work. Again I think MBW can get away with it because that is his schtick, I think he passes it off relatively well. That he's cannibalizing the scene. He's feeding off the scene he mocks. It's a new spin on pop art. Who cares about ripping off Warhol any more, it's been done so many times. It's funny that he's ripping on our cultures fascination with ripping on Warhol. It's funny that he's ripping on the currently popular scene. I like it as an idea, maybe it's not revolutionary maybe it is? But it's more of a unique spin and concept than I see from most people around here. The work is pop arty, it's street arty, it's appropriate for our times, it's funny. It's miles ahead of ripping off work and style and claiming it as your own without thinking through the conceptual reasons for ripping it off. But if we can't agree on this point then it's fine.
And I'm not a huge fan of MBW, I don't think the spin is always that great, I don't think the execution is always that great, a lot of it is total crap, but I still think a select few of his pieces are miles better than all of the work I've seen by a number of artists touted on this forum.
But, unfortunately again, more points that mean nothing except to you.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by Deleted on May 10, 2009 23:28:49 GMT 1, I'm pretty shocked a few of you can get so worked up about MBW or in fact be bothered to write a critique for/against him - plaudits to you all
I'm pretty shocked a few of you can get so worked up about MBW or in fact be bothered to write a critique for/against him - plaudits to you all
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by manchestermike on May 10, 2009 23:32:23 GMT 1, I think the main question that arises from this thread is just what, in the name of jeezi chriisi is a "hipster"?
I think the main question that arises from this thread is just what, in the name of jeezi chriisi is a "hipster"?
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jonvespa
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by jonvespa on May 11, 2009 1:15:47 GMT 1, hahahahahah, apparently you have never been to Cinespace.
hahahahahah, apparently you have never been to Cinespace.
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holden
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by holden on May 11, 2009 2:52:02 GMT 1, I think the main question that arises from this thread is just what, in the name of jeezi chriisi is a "hipster"?
My favorite hipsters
Good thread, thank you everyone.
Its a interesting phenomenon to watch......the MBW brand getting up....I find it engaging on many levels, but somewhat distastefully, in this instance you can boil street art down to a highly successful marketing exercise (with questionable longevity) that is somewhat incongruous to the original ideal.
I cant help but think that he is a product of the times....supplying fodder to the foddee's. Britney buying artwork of herself, he linking his art to Britney's site.....all seems very 'Hello' magazine of the graffiti world to me
BTW, I have a MBW piece, the elvis one......Its alright.
I think the main question that arises from this thread is just what, in the name of jeezi chriisi is a "hipster"? My favorite hipsters Good thread, thank you everyone. Its a interesting phenomenon to watch......the MBW brand getting up....I find it engaging on many levels, but somewhat distastefully, in this instance you can boil street art down to a highly successful marketing exercise (with questionable longevity) that is somewhat incongruous to the original ideal. I cant help but think that he is a product of the times....supplying fodder to the foddee's. Britney buying artwork of herself, he linking his art to Britney's site.....all seems very 'Hello' magazine of the graffiti world to me BTW, I have a MBW piece, the elvis one......Its alright.
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jonvespa
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by jonvespa on May 11, 2009 3:14:04 GMT 1, im sorry, did you say something holden? cant seem to look away from the "hipster".....mmmmm, hipster.
im sorry, did you say something holden? cant seem to look away from the "hipster".....mmmmm, hipster.
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by wiz on May 11, 2009 5:50:15 GMT 1, Hipsters never looked like that on Gillian Robinson in the 60s.
Hipsters never looked like that on Gillian Robinson in the 60s.
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raiden
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Mr. Brainwash, Banksy's protege?, by raiden on May 11, 2009 7:24:25 GMT 1, First, snausages... thanks for the pretty insightful response to my post. I always appreciate well thought out responses. Consequently, I'll delve a little further into artistic criticism of MBW and cite works...
Second, my numbered responses were less critique of his art and more why I go after MBW as an artist - which was a question Cadeallaw raised. There are plenty of artists I think are total crap but I wouldn't spend effort calling them out. With MBW, its those reasons stated that I particularly dislike him as an artist as opposed to merely disliking his art.
I'd disagree that MBW:
biting' is conceptually driven and done with more panache and or humour than most of the artists in this scene who are guilty of the same thing.
Conceptually driven, perhaps. Done with panache??? I don't think Thierry poses the creative intelligence to pull off panache. When half the people are erroneously saying he's "Banksy's Tony Clifton" or an elaborate "emperor has no clothes" ruse on urban art, and half are saying he's imbuing his work with a cross cultural pastiche of references meant as commentary --- I believe neither. Based on interviews I've seen, talking with him, and things I've been told, Thierry is more the Art World's Chance Gardener and once this initial hype dissipates, its going to be more apparent that his work is prima facie what it is: rehashing of tired artistic tropes repackaged with a suffocating hype machine thanks to his personal wealth.
Few pieces he's produced have any depth of commentary, and when they do, you wonder with his extremely prolific and prodigious production of work, whether it might be happy accidents. Out of the literally 1000s of pieces at "Life Is Beautiful," I will grant that the "Urban" Duchamp Urinal was brilliant, but even then, the questions of autuership over the entire collection of works that emerged when it was revealed how it produced the show, makes you wonder if even his greatest artistic triumphs are fully attributable to Thierry - and I've heard way to much to say case closed yes.
Meanwhile, 99% of the work was barely reworked, tired ideas, many of whom were Flea Market outsider art staples. Broken record pictures? Warhol reworkings? It all reminds me of revenge of the bad park art fairs.
It all makes you wonder, how did Thierry get to where he is? Clearly many a message board has thought the most plausible explanation was something wholly outlandish. That idiot art such as Thierry's could only rise to the levels of recognition it has if someone bigger and better were pulling the strings. While Thierry, using the ruse of Documentary filmmaking, has benefited from worming his way into a art world associations way beyond those ever deserved, particularly by someone who by that point, had produced practically zero in terms of gallery art or major street works - the sad truth is that what you see is in fact what you get.
Snausages, my point of labeling Thierry a rich kid, trust fund, hipster has nothing to do with my critique of his work, and everything to do with dispelling the mystique surrounding his work. Though this fact invites a critique, namely that in a very real sense, embracing MBW is tantamount to embracing the "Paris Hiltonification" of art. Sure, economic factors advance or retard many a young art career, but MBW is particularly unique in that economics and connections are the reason for his art career - and what is more, his success seems founded on many of the same principles launching Paris, and so many seem willing to be apologist for it.
Much like Paris, MBW has reached this level of recognition thanks to spectacle and less on substance, thanks to wealth and connections and less on the aesthetics and message. Similarly, the subject matter suffers from the same vapidity as the celebrities counted amongst his buyers - Carson Daily and Britney Spears - the later of whom was a subject matter herself and owner of the work.
Some try to make the case that this is in fact Thierry's very brilliance, that he is holding up a mirror to our vacuous, transparently celebrity obsessed culture - but this assessment is far too generous - and misses that the mirror has no glass. Thierry merely IS vacuous and transparent - and rather than reflecting some brilliant commentary on culture, only reflects his own thirst for urban art fame by churning out work that he thinks is brilliant, for as he says "taking things and turning it in a way that is positive." While there is something quaint in a philosophy of art and manifesto dumbed down to the point its fully comprehendible by a preschool finger painting classes, the work equally reflects this simplicity, both in form, function, composition, etc.
Proven brands like Kayne West are barely manipulated in photoshop, silkscreened by assistants, and in a flourish that goes along with his "preschool finger painting" philosophy on art, Thierry smears a little bit of paint on the black and white image to color it a bit, and then sells the cleverly titled "Kayne West 2009" at an exorbitant price. www.guyhepner.com/pieces/mr-brainwash-new-works-2009-kanye-west-2009
And this becomes his modus operandi. Taking well loved brands, whether Hendrix, Madonna, Jackson Pollack, or Warhol himself, and adding artist flourishes to them that at best qualify them as omages to previous works (In the case of his Warhol Marilyn series) or at worst qualify them merely as crude painting scribbles - the cynic in me is hopeful that perhaps even these works are omages -- to the pachyderm produced paintings of the Asian Elephant Art and Conservation Project.
You might make the case:
He's feeding off the scene he mocks. It's a new spin on pop art. Who cares about ripping off Warhol any more, it's been done so many times. It's funny that he's ripping on our cultures fascination with ripping on Warhol. It's funny that he's ripping on the currently popular scene.
Yet Thierry so desperately tries to be in this scene. It would be convenient to think he's mocking art, if the fact of his desperate desire to be an artist didn't stand in the way of the truth. He set out to be accepted, and his work far from hoping to challenge, hopes to be easily digested so he can obtain this goal of stardom - in a sense carrying the modern MTV values of wanting to acquire "fame for the sake of fame" into the art world.
His work might be interpreted as going so far in copying Warhol and to a lesser extent Banksy conventions as to be rendered a joke, but the problem is that Thierry isn't in on this joke. He truly believes he's creating the best art in the world. Just as Chance Gardner talked about tending gardens and everyone interpreted as economic policy brilliance, Thierry produces "knock off" level art, and everyone interprets it as brilliant mocking.
But there are serious questions raised by Thierry's assault on art - namely in merely being an assault on art, is he (however wittingly or unwittingly) carrying the torch of pop art in the nebulous Urban Art movement and, for that matter, acting as a de facto continuation of Warhol? In terms of furthering the pop art aesthetic, NO, as nothing he's produced can be termed "revolutionary" (granted not much nowadays can be termed revolutionary in art) but I do think Thierry is embodying the Warhol quote of "In the future, everyone will be world famous for 15-minutes," as he's been given so much attention for producing nothing particularly revolutionary or extraordinary in terms of singular works.
Fans might contend that the scope and size of his "Life Is Beautiful" show in and of itself distinguished MBW as an artist, in a sense making the case the sum is greater than any of his parts - but this in essence applies the modern litmus test for celebrity to art. Just as the question "Well what is Paris / Kim Kardashian / Agnes Deyn famous for" can be met with "Well for being famous," much of the justification of MBW's inflated stature on the art scene ranges from citing his prolific pasting campaigns, individual affinity for his work (that is generally followed by a statement like "sure its not great art, but I like it" or "I own it, its not incredible, but it looks good on my wall and reminds me of Warhol"), and, the worst justification of all, pure and simple hype - with adherents even making the case "the art world is all hype anyways" ergo the hype justifies the stature.
Thierry is becoming a famous artist for simply the fact he's becoming a famous artist - and even in critiquing it in hopes of tapping down on this trend, in a very real way, you only fuel his unmerited ascent. The only contextual commentary involved in his work comes from those who chose to buy it - and in doing so, they affirm that lowering of the cultural bar is condoned. That work consisting of a photoshop screen print of 'Pollack' with some splattered blue acrylic (http://www.guyhepner.com/pieces/mr-brainwash-new-works-2009-pollock) is less art than packaged hype. While the same could be said about much of Warhol, the difference is largely that he did it first, and to draw comparison only serves to distort Warhol's very significant role as the originator for screen print serigraph art.
"Being There" ends with Chance Gardner still in a state of blissful ignorance (brainwashed perhaps), his adherents considering running him for the Presidency as we hear the final quote "Life Is A State of Mind." I can't help realize, this isn't far off from "Life Is Beautiful."
First, snausages... thanks for the pretty insightful response to my post. I always appreciate well thought out responses. Consequently, I'll delve a little further into artistic criticism of MBW and cite works... Second, my numbered responses were less critique of his art and more why I go after MBW as an artist - which was a question Cadeallaw raised. There are plenty of artists I think are total crap but I wouldn't spend effort calling them out. With MBW, its those reasons stated that I particularly dislike him as an artist as opposed to merely disliking his art. I'd disagree that MBW: biting' is conceptually driven and done with more panache and or humour than most of the artists in this scene who are guilty of the same thing. Conceptually driven, perhaps. Done with panache??? I don't think Thierry poses the creative intelligence to pull off panache. When half the people are erroneously saying he's "Banksy's Tony Clifton" or an elaborate "emperor has no clothes" ruse on urban art, and half are saying he's imbuing his work with a cross cultural pastiche of references meant as commentary --- I believe neither. Based on interviews I've seen, talking with him, and things I've been told, Thierry is more the Art World's Chance Gardener and once this initial hype dissipates, its going to be more apparent that his work is prima facie what it is: rehashing of tired artistic tropes repackaged with a suffocating hype machine thanks to his personal wealth. Few pieces he's produced have any depth of commentary, and when they do, you wonder with his extremely prolific and prodigious production of work, whether it might be happy accidents. Out of the literally 1000s of pieces at "Life Is Beautiful," I will grant that the "Urban" Duchamp Urinal was brilliant, but even then, the questions of autuership over the entire collection of works that emerged when it was revealed how it produced the show, makes you wonder if even his greatest artistic triumphs are fully attributable to Thierry - and I've heard way to much to say case closed yes. Meanwhile, 99% of the work was barely reworked, tired ideas, many of whom were Flea Market outsider art staples. Broken record pictures? Warhol reworkings? It all reminds me of revenge of the bad park art fairs. It all makes you wonder, how did Thierry get to where he is? Clearly many a message board has thought the most plausible explanation was something wholly outlandish. That idiot art such as Thierry's could only rise to the levels of recognition it has if someone bigger and better were pulling the strings. While Thierry, using the ruse of Documentary filmmaking, has benefited from worming his way into a art world associations way beyond those ever deserved, particularly by someone who by that point, had produced practically zero in terms of gallery art or major street works - the sad truth is that what you see is in fact what you get. Snausages, my point of labeling Thierry a rich kid, trust fund, hipster has nothing to do with my critique of his work, and everything to do with dispelling the mystique surrounding his work. Though this fact invites a critique, namely that in a very real sense, embracing MBW is tantamount to embracing the "Paris Hiltonification" of art. Sure, economic factors advance or retard many a young art career, but MBW is particularly unique in that economics and connections are the reason for his art career - and what is more, his success seems founded on many of the same principles launching Paris, and so many seem willing to be apologist for it. Much like Paris, MBW has reached this level of recognition thanks to spectacle and less on substance, thanks to wealth and connections and less on the aesthetics and message. Similarly, the subject matter suffers from the same vapidity as the celebrities counted amongst his buyers - Carson Daily and Britney Spears - the later of whom was a subject matter herself and owner of the work. Some try to make the case that this is in fact Thierry's very brilliance, that he is holding up a mirror to our vacuous, transparently celebrity obsessed culture - but this assessment is far too generous - and misses that the mirror has no glass. Thierry merely IS vacuous and transparent - and rather than reflecting some brilliant commentary on culture, only reflects his own thirst for urban art fame by churning out work that he thinks is brilliant, for as he says "taking things and turning it in a way that is positive." While there is something quaint in a philosophy of art and manifesto dumbed down to the point its fully comprehendible by a preschool finger painting classes, the work equally reflects this simplicity, both in form, function, composition, etc. Proven brands like Kayne West are barely manipulated in photoshop, silkscreened by assistants, and in a flourish that goes along with his "preschool finger painting" philosophy on art, Thierry smears a little bit of paint on the black and white image to color it a bit, and then sells the cleverly titled "Kayne West 2009" at an exorbitant price. www.guyhepner.com/pieces/mr-brainwash-new-works-2009-kanye-west-2009And this becomes his modus operandi. Taking well loved brands, whether Hendrix, Madonna, Jackson Pollack, or Warhol himself, and adding artist flourishes to them that at best qualify them as omages to previous works (In the case of his Warhol Marilyn series) or at worst qualify them merely as crude painting scribbles - the cynic in me is hopeful that perhaps even these works are omages -- to the pachyderm produced paintings of the Asian Elephant Art and Conservation Project. You might make the case: He's feeding off the scene he mocks. It's a new spin on pop art. Who cares about ripping off Warhol any more, it's been done so many times. It's funny that he's ripping on our cultures fascination with ripping on Warhol. It's funny that he's ripping on the currently popular scene. Yet Thierry so desperately tries to be in this scene. It would be convenient to think he's mocking art, if the fact of his desperate desire to be an artist didn't stand in the way of the truth. He set out to be accepted, and his work far from hoping to challenge, hopes to be easily digested so he can obtain this goal of stardom - in a sense carrying the modern MTV values of wanting to acquire "fame for the sake of fame" into the art world. His work might be interpreted as going so far in copying Warhol and to a lesser extent Banksy conventions as to be rendered a joke, but the problem is that Thierry isn't in on this joke. He truly believes he's creating the best art in the world. Just as Chance Gardner talked about tending gardens and everyone interpreted as economic policy brilliance, Thierry produces "knock off" level art, and everyone interprets it as brilliant mocking. But there are serious questions raised by Thierry's assault on art - namely in merely being an assault on art, is he (however wittingly or unwittingly) carrying the torch of pop art in the nebulous Urban Art movement and, for that matter, acting as a de facto continuation of Warhol? In terms of furthering the pop art aesthetic, NO, as nothing he's produced can be termed "revolutionary" (granted not much nowadays can be termed revolutionary in art) but I do think Thierry is embodying the Warhol quote of "In the future, everyone will be world famous for 15-minutes," as he's been given so much attention for producing nothing particularly revolutionary or extraordinary in terms of singular works. Fans might contend that the scope and size of his "Life Is Beautiful" show in and of itself distinguished MBW as an artist, in a sense making the case the sum is greater than any of his parts - but this in essence applies the modern litmus test for celebrity to art. Just as the question "Well what is Paris / Kim Kardashian / Agnes Deyn famous for" can be met with "Well for being famous," much of the justification of MBW's inflated stature on the art scene ranges from citing his prolific pasting campaigns, individual affinity for his work (that is generally followed by a statement like "sure its not great art, but I like it" or "I own it, its not incredible, but it looks good on my wall and reminds me of Warhol"), and, the worst justification of all, pure and simple hype - with adherents even making the case "the art world is all hype anyways" ergo the hype justifies the stature. Thierry is becoming a famous artist for simply the fact he's becoming a famous artist - and even in critiquing it in hopes of tapping down on this trend, in a very real way, you only fuel his unmerited ascent. The only contextual commentary involved in his work comes from those who chose to buy it - and in doing so, they affirm that lowering of the cultural bar is condoned. That work consisting of a photoshop screen print of 'Pollack' with some splattered blue acrylic (http://www.guyhepner.com/pieces/mr-brainwash-new-works-2009-pollock) is less art than packaged hype. While the same could be said about much of Warhol, the difference is largely that he did it first, and to draw comparison only serves to distort Warhol's very significant role as the originator for screen print serigraph art. "Being There" ends with Chance Gardner still in a state of blissful ignorance (brainwashed perhaps), his adherents considering running him for the Presidency as we hear the final quote "Life Is A State of Mind." I can't help realize, this isn't far off from "Life Is Beautiful."
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