guest2
Junior Member
Posts • 2,471
Likes • 1
December 2006
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by guest2 on Mar 2, 2008 5:29:36 GMT 1, I agree with Frankie on this one. Why would you sell something below market value. Supply and demand dictate prices Primary galleries routine sell their artists work below the secondary market price. Part of the role of a primary gallery is to place the work with buyers who will hold the work, be they museums or private collectors. In exchange for a good price the buyer is expected not to sell for a period, and if they sell then to give the gallery first refusal so they can place it with someone else. After a couple of years all bets are off and you can sell anywhere. Laz doesn't *seem* to be behaving like a primary gallery should but it is difficult to tell. I emphasis seem because nobody knows what work actually passes through his hands and how he disposes of it. However if he is the primary gallery for Faile (and I'm not sure he is) then I agree with Darjeeling and Laz should be placing those pieces to build Failes's reputation. If he is just a secondary then he can do what he likes.
I see you've read the book by Mr Lindemann  I `agree with all your points and on this occasion Laz is selling the piece in question below the 2ndry market price.
I agree with Frankie on this one. Why would you sell something below market value. Supply and demand dictate prices Primary galleries routine sell their artists work below the secondary market price. Part of the role of a primary gallery is to place the work with buyers who will hold the work, be they museums or private collectors. In exchange for a good price the buyer is expected not to sell for a period, and if they sell then to give the gallery first refusal so they can place it with someone else. After a couple of years all bets are off and you can sell anywhere. Laz doesn't *seem* to be behaving like a primary gallery should but it is difficult to tell. I emphasis seem because nobody knows what work actually passes through his hands and how he disposes of it. However if he is the primary gallery for Faile (and I'm not sure he is) then I agree with Darjeeling and Laz should be placing those pieces to build Failes's reputation. If he is just a secondary then he can do what he likes. I see you've read the book by Mr Lindemann I `agree with all your points and on this occasion Laz is selling the piece in question below the 2ndry market price. |
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts • 2,471
Likes • 1
December 2006
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by guest2 on Mar 2, 2008 5:38:06 GMT 1, Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind. But what else would you expect from Frankie who does the same thing? Dead-on. Any serious art collector knows this to be true of serious art galleries. This kind of behavior we're witnessing now is all about trying to capitalize on a fad before the fuel runs out. It focussed on the short term, rather than the long term. Ok behavior for individuals I suppose, but a risky business move. The quick buck vs. the longer-term relationship. We'll see who wins in the end.
I feel Faile will last the distance. It seems to be the 2ndry market sales that have been dictating faile originals of late and not gallery prices. Agony on canvas went for just under 42k and look who bought it.
www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/18/bamarket118.xml
Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind. But what else would you expect from Frankie who does the same thing? Dead-on. Any serious art collector knows this to be true of serious art galleries. This kind of behavior we're witnessing now is all about trying to capitalize on a fad before the fuel runs out. It focussed on the short term, rather than the long term. Ok behavior for individuals I suppose, but a risky business move. The quick buck vs. the longer-term relationship. We'll see who wins in the end. I feel Faile will last the distance. It seems to be the 2ndry market sales that have been dictating faile originals of late and not gallery prices. Agony on canvas went for just under 42k and look who bought it. www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/18/bamarket118.xml |
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aginghippie
New Member
Posts • 211
Likes • 0
December 2007
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by aginghippie on Mar 2, 2008 6:10:16 GMT 1, I see you've read the book by Mr Lindemann I `agree with all your points and on this occasion Laz is selling the piece in question below the 2ndry market price.
Mostly it is from dealing with galleries in New York and a couple of art dealers I have become friendly with :-).
That book reflects their attitudes quite well though. There is a lot on trust but if you break the rules the doors close very fast.
I see you've read the book by Mr Lindemann I `agree with all your points and on this occasion Laz is selling the piece in question below the 2ndry market price. Mostly it is from dealing with galleries in New York and a couple of art dealers I have become friendly with :-). That book reflects their attitudes quite well though. There is a lot on trust but if you break the rules the doors close very fast. |
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rurualhick
New Member
Posts • 189
Likes • 0
January 2008
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by rurualhick on Mar 2, 2008 7:19:32 GMT 1, ALL THESE "NEW" GALLERIES ARE ALL WANKERS. ITS ALL ABOUT THE SHORT TERM PROFIT. WHEN YOU'RE A HACK AND YOU STUMBLE ON THIS FAD WITHOUT THE PROPER BACKGROUND ON WHAT IT IS TO BE AN ARTIST/GALLERY ITS ALL ABOUT THE HIT AND RUN. INTEGRITY? BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS? HAHAHAHAHA.
ALL THESE "NEW" GALLERIES ARE ALL WANKERS. ITS ALL ABOUT THE SHORT TERM PROFIT. WHEN YOU'RE A HACK AND YOU STUMBLE ON THIS FAD WITHOUT THE PROPER BACKGROUND ON WHAT IT IS TO BE AN ARTIST/GALLERY ITS ALL ABOUT THE HIT AND RUN. INTEGRITY? BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS? HAHAHAHAHA.
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts • 4,974
Likes • 5
February 2008
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by Heavyconsumer on Mar 2, 2008 7:19:36 GMT 1, I agree with Frankie on this one. Why would you sell something below market value. Supply and demand dictate prices jonathan levine gallery sold me a pop tart collage for the original asking price a few days after the bonhams auction. i asked them why they would do such a thing and was told it's just how they operate.
Nice one for managing to get that Tart!
I'd like to add that in my very limited dealings with Lori at Levine, I've found her to be efficient, helpful, honest, direct and most of all, friendly. I would very much like to buy some pieces from them if and when they have something suitable.
I agree with Frankie on this one. Why would you sell something below market value. Supply and demand dictate prices jonathan levine gallery sold me a pop tart collage for the original asking price a few days after the bonhams auction. i asked them why they would do such a thing and was told it's just how they operate. Nice one for managing to get that Tart! I'd like to add that in my very limited dealings with Lori at Levine, I've found her to be efficient, helpful, honest, direct and most of all, friendly. I would very much like to buy some pieces from them if and when they have something suitable. |
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foundation
New Member
Posts • 526
Likes • 0
January 2008
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by foundation on Mar 2, 2008 11:43:08 GMT 1, Its a long thread of what I assume is more Laz bashing, but just wanted to add, that due to a recent non payer, I managed to get a very nice Faile piece through Laz for the same cost as when it theoretically sold out last year, and are now selling through other places for 4-5 times as much. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there is often alot more going on than meets the eye...... Alot of these things have been available for a while, as soon as they possibly sell out, all hell breaks loose. Some here might remember about 2 years ago when the prices for signed choppers and BME'swere described as out of stock, and then came back with prices raised from £1500 to £2K with the HAND APs up to an earthshattering £2.6K.
The Faile boxes were available and the same price for a long time, maybe they should have sold them for a much higher price in the first place, following the lead of other ( ahem) primary galleries... ah but then they would have been a bunch of cnuts for charging too much..... its a no win situation, but thought I'd chuck in my tuppence worth. ( I didnt write this for any outrage etc... Its just my opinion, if anyone want to discuss please PM as I cant be arsed having another sunday fucked with pointless back and forth point scoring and but but but.......)
Its a long thread of what I assume is more Laz bashing, but just wanted to add, that due to a recent non payer, I managed to get a very nice Faile piece through Laz for the same cost as when it theoretically sold out last year, and are now selling through other places for 4-5 times as much. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, there is often alot more going on than meets the eye...... Alot of these things have been available for a while, as soon as they possibly sell out, all hell breaks loose. Some here might remember about 2 years ago when the prices for signed choppers and BME'swere described as out of stock, and then came back with prices raised from £1500 to £2K with the HAND APs up to an earthshattering £2.6K.
The Faile boxes were available and the same price for a long time, maybe they should have sold them for a much higher price in the first place, following the lead of other ( ahem) primary galleries... ah but then they would have been a bunch of cnuts for charging too much..... its a no win situation, but thought I'd chuck in my tuppence worth. ( I didnt write this for any outrage etc... Its just my opinion, if anyone want to discuss please PM as I cant be arsed having another sunday fucked with pointless back and forth point scoring and but but but.......)
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keysersoze
New Member
Posts • 127
Likes • 0
November 2006
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by keysersoze on Mar 2, 2008 17:38:32 GMT 1, Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind.
This post is 100% dead-on!
Laz's actions are unheard of in the established/responsible art gallery world. His actions have long-term (and possibly career ending) consequences for some of our beloved artists. I don't know of any other galleries that base their pricing on single auction results (which are easily manipulated also).
Maybe that is why he won't be running the show anymore soon... 
Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind. Laz's actions are unheard of in the established/responsible art gallery world. His actions have long-term (and possibly career ending) consequences for some of our beloved artists. I don't know of any other galleries that base their pricing on single auction results (which are easily manipulated also). Maybe that is why he won't be running the show anymore soon... |
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dkla
New Member
Posts • 673
Likes • 74
February 2007
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by dkla on Mar 2, 2008 19:11:01 GMT 1, Dead-on. Any serious art collector knows this to be true of serious art galleries. This kind of behavior we're witnessing now is all about trying to capitalize on a fad before the fuel runs out. It focussed on the short term, rather than the long term. Ok behavior for individuals I suppose, but a risky business move. The quick buck vs. the longer-term relationship. We'll see who wins in the end. I feel Faile will last the distance. It seems to be the 2ndry market sales that have been dictating faile originals of late and not gallery prices. Agony on canvas went for just under 42k and look who bought it. www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/18/bamarket118.xml
I hope you're right, Frankie - I'm a big fan of Faile - the guys and the art - and I own a few of their works. I'd love it if they were to make it over the long haul - good for those good gentlemen.
Dead-on. Any serious art collector knows this to be true of serious art galleries. This kind of behavior we're witnessing now is all about trying to capitalize on a fad before the fuel runs out. It focussed on the short term, rather than the long term. Ok behavior for individuals I suppose, but a risky business move. The quick buck vs. the longer-term relationship. We'll see who wins in the end. I feel Faile will last the distance. It seems to be the 2ndry market sales that have been dictating faile originals of late and not gallery prices. Agony on canvas went for just under 42k and look who bought it. www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/12/18/bamarket118.xmlI hope you're right, Frankie - I'm a big fan of Faile - the guys and the art - and I own a few of their works. I'd love it if they were to make it over the long haul - good for those good gentlemen. |
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by bobbymeachamjr on Mar 2, 2008 19:33:12 GMT 1, Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind. Laz's actions are unheard of in the established/responsible art gallery world. His actions have long-term (and possibly career ending) consequences for some of our beloved artists. I don't know of any other galleries that base their pricing on single auction results (which are easily manipulated also). Maybe that is why he won't be running the show anymore soon...
Thats the thing and as somebody posted earlier, a lot of these guys/galleries have no experience or background in art and the business of art. We have all these guys jumping in (just like everybody was a CEO of an internet startup in 1999) because they can. These guys see a chance to make a lot of money and when you're coming from nowhere you're likely to do "whatever works". Shady, unethical, illegal whatever - this scene "is like no other in history!" Just like the internet boom.
Seriously folks, how many galleries withdraw their artists work from sale and then the next day price it to match the results? How many serious bona fide galleries representing top tiered artists do this? Let me tell you not may respected galleries do this. Because most respected galleries understand market fluctuation as well. I can give you many examples such as artists whose work sold for $20k at one auction and similar piece sold for 5k months later. How many galleries price their artists work up or down every other week to match auction results? You have to be kidding me. I can give you examples as well of galleries that sell photos or paintings for an artist and priced under their highest auction price. Why? Because galleries for one thing want to keep their collectors happy and they also know they're going to be losing sales and sitting on overpriced inventory isn't good for them or the artist or the collector. Most galleries set a prices for an artists work based on size and medium. Obviously prices will increase to reflect increased demand, often they will warn their clientele of an impending price increase. Only the lowest of "dealers" change their prices everyday to cash in on auction frenzy. And if you can't see how plainly obvious it is that Lazarides is being opportunistic and greedy then your blind. Laz's actions are unheard of in the established/responsible art gallery world. His actions have long-term (and possibly career ending) consequences for some of our beloved artists. I don't know of any other galleries that base their pricing on single auction results (which are easily manipulated also). Maybe that is why he won't be running the show anymore soon... Thats the thing and as somebody posted earlier, a lot of these guys/galleries have no experience or background in art and the business of art. We have all these guys jumping in (just like everybody was a CEO of an internet startup in 1999) because they can. These guys see a chance to make a lot of money and when you're coming from nowhere you're likely to do "whatever works". Shady, unethical, illegal whatever - this scene "is like no other in history!" Just like the internet boom. |
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seidbereit
Junior Member
Posts • 1,743
Likes • 5
November 2007
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by seidbereit on Mar 2, 2008 19:40:19 GMT 1, Slightly off the topic (apologies) but has Laz dropped the price of Blu/Erica il Cane originals to 1.5k?
I thought they were priced around 3.5k about a month ago. I realise this is not going to "compensate" Faile fans but I'm still curious as to whether I'm just imagining it or not.. Thanks.
Slightly off the topic (apologies) but has Laz dropped the price of Blu/Erica il Cane originals to 1.5k?
I thought they were priced around 3.5k about a month ago. I realise this is not going to "compensate" Faile fans but I'm still curious as to whether I'm just imagining it or not.. Thanks.
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
Posts • 0
Likes • 0
September 2012
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by jamesreeve5 on Mar 2, 2008 21:17:47 GMT 1, I think faile will be around for the long haul.
as will these other guys...
I think faile will be around for the long haul. as will these other guys... |
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Va Va Voom
New Member
Posts • 631
Likes • 135
October 2006
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by Va Va Voom on Mar 2, 2008 23:16:54 GMT 1, Faile are career artists,not in it for short term gain.Anyone that thinks otherwise will be proved very wrong,good guys producing great art,that IMHO will improve and stand the test of time.
Faile are career artists,not in it for short term gain.Anyone that thinks otherwise will be proved very wrong,good guys producing great art,that IMHO will improve and stand the test of time.
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uac
New Member
Posts • 123
Likes • 0
February 2008
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by uac on Mar 2, 2008 23:40:16 GMT 1, I would imagine that most of the artists showing with galleries are in it for the long term. To much investment has been placed into this movement now for it to go bad. Prices will only rise and the artists get bigger but there will be alot of casualties along the way, thats for sure.
I would imagine that most of the artists showing with galleries are in it for the long term. To much investment has been placed into this movement now for it to go bad. Prices will only rise and the artists get bigger but there will be alot of casualties along the way, thats for sure.
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Va Va Voom
New Member
Posts • 631
Likes • 135
October 2006
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Faile boxes back on Laz, by Va Va Voom on Mar 2, 2008 23:47:27 GMT 1, For sure there will be casualties,the market is white hot at the moment and historically only around 5% will be around in 10 years time...the fun bit is choosing who ?
For sure there will be casualties,the market is white hot at the moment and historically only around 5% will be around in 10 years time...the fun bit is choosing who ?
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I `agree with all your points and on this occasion Laz is selling the piece in question below the 2ndry market price.
