curiousgeorge
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,833
๐๐ป 1,091
March 2007
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by curiousgeorge on Dec 6, 2014 3:13:06 GMT 1, The prices paid by the buyers with 28.8% fees seem very high on certain works, if not all.
Golf Sale ยฃ4,121 Barcode ยฃ7,728 I Fought The Law ยฃ2,833
Laugh Now ยฃ6,182
CND (signed) ยฃ7,084
Jack and Jill (Signed) ยฃ7,728
Pulp Fiction AP (Signed) ยฃ18,032
Love is in the Air ยฃ7,728
Soup x 4 (Signed) ยฃ14,168
Toxic Mary ยฃ5,152
CND ยฃ4,121
Love Rat ยฃ5,796
Grannies ยฃ3,348
Applause ยฃ4,894
CYW Purple (Signed) ยฃ16,744
The prices paid by the buyers with 28.8% fees seem very high on certain works, if not all.
Golf Sale ยฃ4,121 Barcode ยฃ7,728 I Fought The Law ยฃ2,833
Laugh Now ยฃ6,182
CND (signed) ยฃ7,084
Jack and Jill (Signed) ยฃ7,728
Pulp Fiction AP (Signed) ยฃ18,032
Love is in the Air ยฃ7,728
Soup x 4 (Signed) ยฃ14,168
Toxic Mary ยฃ5,152
CND ยฃ4,121
Love Rat ยฃ5,796
Grannies ยฃ3,348
Applause ยฃ4,894
CYW Purple (Signed) ยฃ16,744
Can you do the same for what the seller/s would walk away with please? |
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trapnel1
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 664
๐๐ป 460
September 2008
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by trapnel1 on Dec 6, 2014 10:14:55 GMT 1, What the sellers walked away with (assuming 16.5% seller fee, and not taking account of the catalogue illustration fee).......
Golf Sale ยฃ2672
Barcode ยฃ5010
I Fought The Law ยฃ1837
Laugh Now ยฃ4008
CND (signed) ยฃ4593
Jack and Jill (Signed) ยฃ5010
Pulp Fiction AP (Signed) ยฃ11690
Love is in the Air ยฃ5010
Soup x 4 (Signed) ยฃ9185
Toxic Mary ยฃ3340
CND ยฃ2672
Love Rat ยฃ3758
Grannies ยฃ2171
Applause ยฃ3173
CYW Purple (Signed) ยฃ10855
What the sellers walked away with (assuming 16.5% seller fee, and not taking account of the catalogue illustration fee).......
Golf Sale ยฃ2672
Barcode ยฃ5010
I Fought The Law ยฃ1837
Laugh Now ยฃ4008
CND (signed) ยฃ4593
Jack and Jill (Signed) ยฃ5010
Pulp Fiction AP (Signed) ยฃ11690
Love is in the Air ยฃ5010
Soup x 4 (Signed) ยฃ9185
Toxic Mary ยฃ3340
CND ยฃ2672
Love Rat ยฃ3758
Grannies ยฃ2171
Applause ยฃ3173
CYW Purple (Signed) ยฃ10855
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Hubble Bubble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,116
๐๐ป 3,566
December 2010
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Hubble Bubble on Dec 6, 2014 11:30:19 GMT 1, Have you added VAT at 20% to the seller's fee?
Have you added VAT at 20% to the seller's fee? |
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,379
๐๐ป 423
June 2007
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Pattycakes on Dec 6, 2014 20:18:45 GMT 1, hmmm not quite.
hmmm not quite.
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lucky7
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 423
๐๐ป 178
June 2014
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Fะฏ
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,264
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May 2013
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gironawatch
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,197
๐๐ป 94
August 2007
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by gironawatch on Apr 23, 2015 7:58:59 GMT 1, Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned.
Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,007
๐๐ป 3,971
September 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Black Apple Art on Apr 23, 2015 9:19:47 GMT 1, Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned.
1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your shit or even better, know both!
All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad.
I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is and to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo.
As you were.
Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned. I can honestly say, I haven't seen more prints available in a while as the high prices have obviously been bringing a new level of people willing to part with their pieces. But in contrast, without a doubt, I have never seen more damaged and less than investment quality prints in circulation ever. Between myself and several other buyers and collectors, I can honestly say more than half of all pieces I see for sale, and that's probably low, have undisclosed damage. I believe this is due to three main reasons: 1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your shit or even better, know both! All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad. I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is and to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo. As you were. |
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Harveyn
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,743
๐๐ป 4,899
July 2007
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Harveyn on Jul 2, 2015 23:43:00 GMT 1, Strong results on these.
Unsigned
Golf Sale ยฃ2480 Pulp Fiction ยฃ7192 Napalm ยฃ4960 LN ยฃ5580 Love Rat ยฃ7740 G. Rat ยฃ7740 LIITA ยฃ11160 Soup Can ยฃ5208 Grannies ยฃ4960
Signed
IFTL ยฃ7440 Grin Reaper ยฃ11780
Strong results on these.
Unsigned
Golf Sale ยฃ2480 Pulp Fiction ยฃ7192 Napalm ยฃ4960 LN ยฃ5580 Love Rat ยฃ7740 G. Rat ยฃ7740 LIITA ยฃ11160 Soup Can ยฃ5208 Grannies ยฃ4960
Signed
IFTL ยฃ7440 Grin Reaper ยฃ11780
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samfrost
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 787
๐๐ป 530
June 2014
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by samfrost on Jul 3, 2015 0:07:55 GMT 1, Not to mention a very scratch and dent sale. Always check the condition reports!!
Not to mention a very scratch and dent sale. Always check the condition reports!!
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brookvale
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 327
๐๐ป 142
Member is Online
January 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by brookvale on Jul 3, 2015 10:32:51 GMT 1, Are grim reapers really that much? There were a few on here for sale a while back.
Are grim reapers really that much? There were a few on here for sale a while back.
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Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Winter on Jul 3, 2015 16:48:44 GMT 1, Always felt the Grin Reaper deserved to be up there with some of his other prints. Love the thick ink.
Always felt the Grin Reaper deserved to be up there with some of his other prints. Love the thick ink.
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Catman 74
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,226
๐๐ป 842
Location: London
November 2014
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Catman 74 on Jul 3, 2015 18:05:39 GMT 1, The IFTl had a really bad tear although restored you could clearly see the damage..
The IFTl had a really bad tear although restored you could clearly see the damage..
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Unica
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,076
๐๐ป 1,232
November 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Unica on Jul 3, 2015 18:17:24 GMT 1, ยฃ11k for an unsigned LIITA, they have gone to the next level. That and GWB are separating themselves, more expensive than most other signed prints now.
ยฃ11k for an unsigned LIITA, they have gone to the next level. That and GWB are separating themselves, more expensive than most other signed prints now.
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Catman 74
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,226
๐๐ป 842
Location: London
November 2014
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Catman 74 on Jul 3, 2015 18:43:03 GMT 1, Napalm and grannies coming up in price too
Napalm and grannies coming up in price too
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
๐๐ป 2,371
April 2015
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by coller on Jul 4, 2015 17:36:44 GMT 1, Those are pretty high results, and for damaged prints?
Guess the fellas who bought their signed GRs on here for ~8k over the last year are feeling good; there were a few about.
Those are pretty high results, and for damaged prints?
Guess the fellas who bought their signed GRs on here for ~8k over the last year are feeling good; there were a few about.
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 18:14:54 GMT 1, Some prices insane.
I paid ยฃ5k for LIITA in July 2014 just after Laz exhibition at Sothebys when Banksy prints were at a premium or so I thought; if id bought it a month before id probably have paid about ยฃ4k !
Some prices insane.
I paid ยฃ5k for LIITA in July 2014 just after Laz exhibition at Sothebys when Banksy prints were at a premium or so I thought; if id bought it a month before id probably have paid about ยฃ4k !
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brookvale
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 327
๐๐ป 142
Member is Online
January 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by brookvale on Jul 5, 2015 14:21:00 GMT 1, Did anyone buy those grim reapers that were for sale on here a few months ago anyway?
Did anyone buy those grim reapers that were for sale on here a few months ago anyway?
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
๐๐ป 2,371
April 2015
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by coller on Jul 5, 2015 20:23:48 GMT 1, Some prices insane. I paid ยฃ5k for LIITA in July 2014 just after Laz exhibition at Sothebys when Banksy prints were at a premium or so I thought; if id bought it a month before id probably have paid about ยฃ4k !
Some prices insane. I paid ยฃ5k for LIITA in July 2014 just after Laz exhibition at Sothebys when Banksy prints were at a premium or so I thought; if id bought it a month before id probably have paid about ยฃ4k ! That honestly seems pretty cheap even for 2014; wouldn't sweat it too much |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 20:39:49 GMT 1, No, im fine with what i paid for LIITA, i was just remarking on rate of climb on certain prints in the last year, LIITA being one of them. I bought from Lionel Gallery but Hangup and Newart both had one and all 3 sellers were all priced within few hundred pounds of each other, Hangup being the most expensive naturally.
No, im fine with what i paid for LIITA, i was just remarking on rate of climb on certain prints in the last year, LIITA being one of them. I bought from Lionel Gallery but Hangup and Newart both had one and all 3 sellers were all priced within few hundred pounds of each other, Hangup being the most expensive naturally.
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Phear Loathing on Jul 8, 2015 14:26:23 GMT 1, What's an us gwb go for?
Crazy to think I bought one for 5000 USD in fall of 2013
What's an us gwb go for?
Crazy to think I bought one for 5000 USD in fall of 2013
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coller
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,384
๐๐ป 2,371
April 2015
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by coller on Jul 8, 2015 14:27:44 GMT 1, What's an us gwb go for? Crazy to think I bought one for 5000 USD in fall of 2013
What's an us gwb go for? Crazy to think I bought one for 5000 USD in fall of 2013 That's crazy in its own right. And over 10kGBP. |
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by met on Jul 10, 2015 22:06:29 GMT 1, Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned. I can honestly say, I haven't seen more prints available in a while as the high prices have obviously been bringing a new level of people willing to part with their pieces. But in contrast, without a doubt, I have never seen more damaged and less than investment quality prints in circulation ever. Between myself and several other buyers and collectors, I can honestly say more than half of all pieces I see for sale, and that's probably low, have undisclosed damage. I believe this is due to three main reasons: 1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your s**t or even better, know both! All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad. I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is and to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo. As you were.
Great post. It deserves a second life.
There is certainly a significant amount of poor-quality framing work out there โ often only recognisable as such after the artwork has been removed from the frame.
A number of framers will bandy about expressions like "archival", "conservation" or "museum standards" without really knowing what they're saying and being truly familiar with the relevant materials and techniques. It's as if they use these terms purely for sales purposes, like substitute wording for the largely meaningless description, "professionally framed".
I have no idea what the different percentages may be for framers whose typical quality of work is excellent, good, average, poor or disastrous. However, those in the latter two categories are probably more prevalent and less easily identifiable than cowboy builders.
One issue you mentioned, which is worth reiterating, is that poor-quality framing can look perfectly fine, even well-done, if you're just examining the framed work externally. I fear this gives people a false sense of security, leading them to prematurely judge and praise the calibre of their framers. For me, it makes uncomfortable reading if they then make public recommendations on the basis of these superficial inspections โ even if combined with other factors, like delivery convenience or their framer being "a great guy".
I've seen cock-ups or shoddy work (including by one or two framers lauded on this forum) which, depending on the example, would make members here scratch their heads, laugh out loud, or weep.
Price are bit down in the last few month. More the signed than unsigned. I can honestly say, I haven't seen more prints available in a while as the high prices have obviously been bringing a new level of people willing to part with their pieces. But in contrast, without a doubt, I have never seen more damaged and less than investment quality prints in circulation ever. Between myself and several other buyers and collectors, I can honestly say more than half of all pieces I see for sale, and that's probably low, have undisclosed damage. I believe this is due to three main reasons: 1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your s**t or even better, know both! All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad. I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is and to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo. As you were. Great post. It deserves a second life. There is certainly a significant amount of poor-quality framing work out there โ often only recognisable as such after the artwork has been removed from the frame. A number of framers will bandy about expressions like "archival", "conservation" or "museum standards" without really knowing what they're saying and being truly familiar with the relevant materials and techniques. It's as if they use these terms purely for sales purposes, like substitute wording for the largely meaningless description, "professionally framed". I have no idea what the different percentages may be for framers whose typical quality of work is excellent, good, average, poor or disastrous. However, those in the latter two categories are probably more prevalent and less easily identifiable than cowboy builders. One issue you mentioned, which is worth reiterating, is that poor-quality framing can look perfectly fine, even well-done, if you're just examining the framed work externally. I fear this gives people a false sense of security, leading them to prematurely judge and praise the calibre of their framers. For me, it makes uncomfortable reading if they then make public recommendations on the basis of these superficial inspections โ even if combined with other factors, like delivery convenience or their framer being "a great guy". I've seen cock-ups or shoddy work (including by one or two framers lauded on this forum) which, depending on the example, would make members here scratch their heads, laugh out loud, or weep. |
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,007
๐๐ป 3,971
September 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Black Apple Art on Jul 10, 2015 22:36:32 GMT 1, I can honestly say, I haven't seen more prints available in a while as the high prices have obviously been bringing a new level of people willing to part with their pieces. But in contrast, without a doubt, I have never seen more damaged and less than investment quality prints in circulation ever. Between myself and several other buyers and collectors, I can honestly say more than half of all pieces I see for sale, and that's probably low, have undisclosed damage. I believe this is due to three main reasons: 1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your s**t or even better, know both!ย All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad.ย I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is andย to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo.ย As you were.ย Great post. It deserves a second life. There is certainly a significant amount of poor-quality framing work out there โ often only recognisable as such after the artwork has been removed from the frame. A number of framers will bandy about expressions like "archival", "conservation" or "museum standards" without really knowing what they're saying and being truly familiar with the relevant materials and techniques. It's as if they use these terms purely for sales purposes, like substitute wording for the largely meaningless description, "professionally framed". I have no idea what the different percentages may be for framers whose typical quality of work is excellent, good, average, poor or disastrous. However, those in the latter two categories are probably more prevalent and less easily identifiable than cowboy builders. One issue you mentioned, which is worth reiterating, is that poor-quality framing can look perfectly fine, even well-done, if you're just examining the framed work externally. I fear this gives people a false sense of security, leading them to prematurely judge and praise the calibre of their framers. For me, it makes uncomfortable reading if they then make public recommendations on the basis of these superficial inspections โ even if combined with other factors, like delivery convenience or their framer being "a great guy". I've seen cock-ups or shoddy work (including by one or two framers lauded on this forum) which, depending on the example, would make members here scratch their heads, laugh out loud, or weep.
Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx
I can honestly say, I haven't seen more prints available in a while as the high prices have obviously been bringing a new level of people willing to part with their pieces. But in contrast, without a doubt, I have never seen more damaged and less than investment quality prints in circulation ever. Between myself and several other buyers and collectors, I can honestly say more than half of all pieces I see for sale, and that's probably low, have undisclosed damage. I believe this is due to three main reasons: 1) We know many older pieces that were first purchased for a few hundred pounds or less were just not deemed worthy of spending more than a fraction of that framing. I think this is the smallest portion of the issue now as many have been flushed out, so no need to go further into that. 2) Most framers really do not possess the knowledge or skill to do true conservation framing. This combined with the most owners knowing even less, is a deadly combination resulting in a massive amount of prints out there with are severely damaged and getting worse with every passing day. The scary thing is many of these pieces look perfect framed and sadly enough, this is how most are sold with neither the buyer or seller even bothering to open and inspect it. 3) Many being aware of the factors in #2 go by this "no inspection, no issue" policy where they either know the piece is damaged and pass it along again or just don't want to look. I can't even count how many galleries, resellers and owners just in the past 6 months have sworn pieces to be "perfect" or "mint" and after the smoke clears I have found out they have never even looked at the piece beyond the framed glass, or that was their excuse, and then always blame the original owner, the framer or they old, I just never looked. Double sided tape, glue, non conservation grade materials.. the list goes on and on. There are some great framers out there but for every great one there are probably 10 that are not so good so know your framer, know your s**t or even better, know both!ย All and all yes, there are some deals to be had but when you see a low price or a price that seems "above market" wether from a private party, dealer or auction house...you need to know what was actually sold. To think that all the pieces my mates and I have returned or refused are most likely hanging in someone's home having no clue of what they truly have is scary and sad.ย I probably have gotten off topic here but I think if more people knew the questions to ask and what to look for it would put a big dent in this massive issue that for the most part goes unnoticed until it's too late. With the little that is out there, these pieces are scarce enough as it is andย to pay or charge a premium for a truly top quality and preserved print is worth every penny imo.ย As you were.ย Great post. It deserves a second life. There is certainly a significant amount of poor-quality framing work out there โ often only recognisable as such after the artwork has been removed from the frame. A number of framers will bandy about expressions like "archival", "conservation" or "museum standards" without really knowing what they're saying and being truly familiar with the relevant materials and techniques. It's as if they use these terms purely for sales purposes, like substitute wording for the largely meaningless description, "professionally framed". I have no idea what the different percentages may be for framers whose typical quality of work is excellent, good, average, poor or disastrous. However, those in the latter two categories are probably more prevalent and less easily identifiable than cowboy builders. One issue you mentioned, which is worth reiterating, is that poor-quality framing can look perfectly fine, even well-done, if you're just examining the framed work externally. I fear this gives people a false sense of security, leading them to prematurely judge and praise the calibre of their framers. For me, it makes uncomfortable reading if they then make public recommendations on the basis of these superficial inspections โ even if combined with other factors, like delivery convenience or their framer being "a great guy". I've seen cock-ups or shoddy work (including by one or two framers lauded on this forum) which, depending on the example, would make members here scratch their heads, laugh out loud, or weep. Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx |
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by met on Jul 11, 2015 0:22:44 GMT 1, Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx
A separate but somewhat connected point relates to forum pricing discussions for multiples, and specifically works on paper.
Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered.
It's worth keeping in mind that this leaves out a critical factor from the equation, to the extent that (at least as far as I'm concerned) such restricted discussions can be misleading and perhaps unhelpful โ because most forum members are probably oblivious as to whether like is truly being compared with like.
It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind.
Or, even worse, in cases where there may be information asymmetry (an unlevel information playing field), members with more access to information can cynically exploit their advantage with greater ease. For example, a well-briefed dealer-buyer can dishonestly refer to recent sale prices mentioned here for prints (that he or she knows were badly damaged, but where such damage was left undisclosed here) while negotiating the purchase of a pristine print from a less-informed private seller.
Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx A separate but somewhat connected point relates to forum pricing discussions for multiples, and specifically works on paper. Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered. It's worth keeping in mind that this leaves out a critical factor from the equation, to the extent that (at least as far as I'm concerned) such restricted discussions can be misleading and perhaps unhelpful โ because most forum members are probably oblivious as to whether like is truly being compared with like. It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind. Or, even worse, in cases where there may be information asymmetry (an unlevel information playing field), members with more access to information can cynically exploit their advantage with greater ease. For example, a well-briefed dealer-buyer can dishonestly refer to recent sale prices mentioned here for prints (that he or she knows were badly damaged, but where such damage was left undisclosed here) while negotiating the purchase of a pristine print from a less-informed private seller. |
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
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September 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Black Apple Art on Jul 11, 2015 7:51:11 GMT 1, Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx A separate but somewhat connected point relates to forum pricing discussions for multiples, and specifically works on paper. Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered. It's worth keeping in mind that this leaves out a critical factor from the equation, to the extent that (at least as far as I'm concerned) such restricted discussions can be misleading and perhaps unhelpful โ because most forum members are probably oblivious as to whether like is truly being compared with like. It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind. Or, even worse, in cases where there may be information asymmetry (an unlevel information playing field), members with more access to information can cynically exploit their advantage with greater ease. For example, a well-briefed dealer-buyer can dishonestly refer to recent sale prices mentioned here for prints (that he or she knows were badly damaged, but where such damage was left undisclosed here) while negotiating the purchase of a pristine print from a less-informed private seller.
Always good to spread the word and keep people informed thx A separate but somewhat connected point relates to forum pricing discussions for multiples, and specifically works on paper. Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered. It's worth keeping in mind that this leaves out a critical factor from the equation, to the extent that (at least as far as I'm concerned) such restricted discussions can be misleading and perhaps unhelpful โ because most forum members are probably oblivious as to whether like is truly being compared with like. It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind. Or, even worse, in cases where there may be information asymmetry (an unlevel information playing field), members with more access to information can cynically exploit their advantage with greater ease. For example, a well-briefed dealer-buyer can dishonestly refer to recent sale prices mentioned here for prints (that he or she knows were badly damaged, but where such damage was left undisclosed here) while negotiating the purchase of a pristine print from a less-informed private seller. Great points met |
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lee3
New Member
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November 2009
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by lee3 on Jul 11, 2015 16:00:02 GMT 1, >>>Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered.<<<
I think with the premier artist of this site, condition often becomes less of a factor than for many other artists and i say that curiously because the price differential is so great. Without blatantly obvious condition issues, it becomes a case of a very long line for limited work and sellers will simply take the next customer waiting which can lead to frustrated potential buyers.
While on the subject, i've never understood one who gets bent regarding light adhesive on the reverse. I've never had it happen to me and pay a large premium for archival but i have read others opinions and found it strange which is not a slight towards the perfectionists among us. Maybe I'm naive but have always felt that if it looks sterling from the front, then it's good enough for me.
>>>It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind. <<<
That has never stopped anyone here. Hope you're well P.
>>>Members often quote various auction, eBay, gallery or private seller prices for secondary market prints from the same edition, with a view to gauging their current market values. In these exchanges, the condition of the different prints (or their possible condition issues) is rarely mentioned and considered.<<<
I think with the premier artist of this site, condition often becomes less of a factor than for many other artists and i say that curiously because the price differential is so great. Without blatantly obvious condition issues, it becomes a case of a very long line for limited work and sellers will simply take the next customer waiting which can lead to frustrated potential buyers.
While on the subject, i've never understood one who gets bent regarding light adhesive on the reverse. I've never had it happen to me and pay a large premium for archival but i have read others opinions and found it strange which is not a slight towards the perfectionists among us. Maybe I'm naive but have always felt that if it looks sterling from the front, then it's good enough for me.
>>>It encourages scenarios where the blind may start to lead the blind. <<<
That has never stopped anyone here. Hope you're well P.
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bgt5002
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 226
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November 2013
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by bgt5002 on Jul 18, 2015 5:53:39 GMT 1, Interesting to see Napalm so high. That's always been one of the price-friendlier pieces given the subject. Glad I got in early.
Interesting to see Napalm so high. That's always been one of the price-friendlier pieces given the subject. Glad I got in early.
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Catman 74
Junior Member
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Location: London
November 2014
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Bloomsbury Auctions ๐ฌ๐ง, by Catman 74 on Jul 18, 2015 14:20:15 GMT 1, I think Napalm is a very underrated image..it deserves to be up there with the more popular prints.
I think Napalm is a very underrated image..it deserves to be up there with the more popular prints.
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