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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by Daniel Silk on Sept 29, 2009 14:16:58 GMT 1, Could Banksy be seen as part of the Art Establishment in years to come as he gets more famous and his work is recognized more more people?
Do you think he might end up in a similar position to Damien Hirst?
Could Banksy be seen as part of the Art Establishment in years to come as he gets more famous and his work is recognized more more people?
Do you think he might end up in a similar position to Damien Hirst?
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packet
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July 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by packet on Sept 29, 2009 14:33:33 GMT 1, Hirst seems to be more about maximizing the amount he can charge per piece and minimizing how much of the art he actually does himself. Unless Banksy starts opening art factories with the sole purpose of maximizing how much work can be pumped out under his name, I doubt he'll be compared to hirst.
Also, Banksy is more than happy to give out digital copies of his prints for you to print up as you like. Hirst seems to be the type that would sue to stop that.
Hirst seems to be more about maximizing the amount he can charge per piece and minimizing how much of the art he actually does himself. Unless Banksy starts opening art factories with the sole purpose of maximizing how much work can be pumped out under his name, I doubt he'll be compared to hirst.
Also, Banksy is more than happy to give out digital copies of his prints for you to print up as you like. Hirst seems to be the type that would sue to stop that.
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justsomeyank
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August 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by justsomeyank on Sept 29, 2009 14:36:18 GMT 1, 1st question: Yes definitely. Radical artists have a long history of being outsiders for long periods of time and then eventually being accepted as part of the establishment. The Impressionists are probably the best example, but almost every major 20th century art movement started as a few people doing their own thing to piss off a few people, only then to achieve massive fame because of it, then in turn spurring other small groups of people to rail against the "establishment". It's the natural flow of art. The dadaists, the abstract expressionists, the pop artists, the minimalists, and performance art all rose out of this mindset, and urban art is no different.
Question #2: Nope. No one can be that douchey.
1st question: Yes definitely. Radical artists have a long history of being outsiders for long periods of time and then eventually being accepted as part of the establishment. The Impressionists are probably the best example, but almost every major 20th century art movement started as a few people doing their own thing to piss off a few people, only then to achieve massive fame because of it, then in turn spurring other small groups of people to rail against the "establishment". It's the natural flow of art. The dadaists, the abstract expressionists, the pop artists, the minimalists, and performance art all rose out of this mindset, and urban art is no different.
Question #2: Nope. No one can be that douchey.
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by Daniel Silk on Sept 29, 2009 14:41:51 GMT 1, Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train?
Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train?
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curiousgeorge
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March 2007
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by curiousgeorge on Sept 29, 2009 14:56:27 GMT 1, Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train?
I think in recent time we have seen him take a much tighter grip on things, just my opinion
Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train? I think in recent time we have seen him take a much tighter grip on things, just my opinion |
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justsomeyank
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August 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by justsomeyank on Sept 29, 2009 15:19:09 GMT 1, Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train?
It's a good question, and boils down to a question of how much influence an artist has over their own career and perception. To a large extent, traditionally collectors, gallerists, auctioneers, and museums have guided the career of artists, but obviously there are exceptions. If the art world has proven anything, it's that no one is immune from "the system", as eventually the secondary market drives an artist's value (and career).
On the other hand, Banksy is really tricky to pin down. He puts a lot of art on unsellable mediums, gives a great deal of it away, and refuses to prosecute copycats, which creates a difficult "is it a real banksy?" question, which will only get harder to answer as time progresses, he becomes more popular, and technology makes it impossible to tell fakes from the real thing.
Of course Andy Warhol made a pretty good career out of churning out unnumbered/unsigned prints and not caring about copycats, but in general this is a poor strategy if you're concerned about having control over your own career as an artist.
His public persona as a shadowy trickster is a strong point in the art world, as everyone loves mystery and in a world of micro-managing egomaniacs, a breath of fresh air is welcome. Whether he can maintain that persona is another question.
It will be interesting to see how his career progresses. I feel as though he is entering his mid-career phase, and he may have stretched the creative bounds of his traditional stencil graffiti aesthetic. To a large extent, his place in the art world will be judged not by what he's done in the past, but what he does next.
Obviously Banksy would never want to be seen as part of the Art Establishment, but is he really in control of it? As he becomes a household name does he loose control a bit of the Banksy train? It's a good question, and boils down to a question of how much influence an artist has over their own career and perception. To a large extent, traditionally collectors, gallerists, auctioneers, and museums have guided the career of artists, but obviously there are exceptions. If the art world has proven anything, it's that no one is immune from "the system", as eventually the secondary market drives an artist's value (and career). On the other hand, Banksy is really tricky to pin down. He puts a lot of art on unsellable mediums, gives a great deal of it away, and refuses to prosecute copycats, which creates a difficult "is it a real banksy?" question, which will only get harder to answer as time progresses, he becomes more popular, and technology makes it impossible to tell fakes from the real thing. Of course Andy Warhol made a pretty good career out of churning out unnumbered/unsigned prints and not caring about copycats, but in general this is a poor strategy if you're concerned about having control over your own career as an artist. His public persona as a shadowy trickster is a strong point in the art world, as everyone loves mystery and in a world of micro-managing egomaniacs, a breath of fresh air is welcome. Whether he can maintain that persona is another question. It will be interesting to see how his career progresses. I feel as though he is entering his mid-career phase, and he may have stretched the creative bounds of his traditional stencil graffiti aesthetic. To a large extent, his place in the art world will be judged not by what he's done in the past, but what he does next. |
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by Daniel Silk on Sept 29, 2009 16:40:44 GMT 1, Justsomeyank, Very well said! 
Justsomeyank, Very well said! |
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sashaz
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January 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by sashaz on Sept 29, 2009 18:01:03 GMT 1, I have heard banksy be descibed as "one joke" artist but to over come this I think he has to do the following:
I would like him to be exhibited in the Tate modern some day then that would get him more in the art establisment. His bristol exhibtion had very impressive numbers and I think it will attract a larger museum to try and get his work shown. If the exhibtion was in a major London gallery then it would have had monstorous attenance figures. So a couple of these record breaking exhibtions will put in in the establishment catagory purely by the press and audience power he would then have.
I have heard banksy be descibed as "one joke" artist but to over come this I think he has to do the following:
I would like him to be exhibited in the Tate modern some day then that would get him more in the art establisment. His bristol exhibtion had very impressive numbers and I think it will attract a larger museum to try and get his work shown. If the exhibtion was in a major London gallery then it would have had monstorous attenance figures. So a couple of these record breaking exhibtions will put in in the establishment catagory purely by the press and audience power he would then have.
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tinkicker
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by tinkicker on Sept 29, 2009 21:34:28 GMT 1, I thought he was part of the Art Establishment!!!!Has hes not been at the fore front of a world wide Movement? ?Just check out the sale of Montana Cans!:-)
I thought he was part of the Art Establishment!!!!Has hes not been at the fore front of a world wide Movement? ?Just check out the sale of Montana Cans!:-) |
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jamesreeve5
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September 2012
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by jamesreeve5 on Sept 29, 2009 21:52:03 GMT 1, Banksy will be seen as the only memorable example of the London street art movement (the figurehead of a tiny blip on the large map of art history itself). So yes, he will be part of the establishment at some point if he's not already...
Banksy will be seen as the only memorable example of the London street art movement (the figurehead of a tiny blip on the large map of art history itself). So yes, he will be part of the establishment at some point if he's not already...
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raiden
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April 2008
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by raiden on Sept 29, 2009 21:55:53 GMT 1, I'll go one further and say that in 40 years, I see Banksy being Knighted. Sir Banksy. I give it 50/50 odds.
Yes, I know I live over the pond, so I'm not an expert at knowing this monarchist crap. And I know people think I'm crazy for saying it.
But as I've argued before, despite his constant jabs at the monarchy and technically being a criminal (vandal), I still see this happening.
Reasons in short:
1) Paul McCartney was knighted. Despite being "your parents music," The Beatles were plenty controversial in their hey day.
2) Prince William is already counted as a fan.
3) By the end of his career, Banksy will have donated tens of millions to charity
4) I'm betting Banksy may go public sometime in his 50s-60s, when statute of limitations runs out on vandalism and he is too old to jump over walls. If not, I still see the possibility of Banksy being Knighted wearing his monkey mask.
5) Name the most famous graffiti artist. Its Bansky. Everyone who comes after will say they were influenced by him.
6) His work continues to evolve and get better. I'm seeing no signs that Banksy is getting "stale" overall. Sure, some of his early images are viewed as more "quaint" now compared to the freshness they had then, but much of his new, non-stencil stuff - from the Pet Store to Bristol Museum - is pretty much as modern and fresh as it gets. I see no signs of this failing to continue.
7) Among 18 - 25 year olds in America. If you ask them to name a modern British artist - or a British artist in general - I'd bet Banksy by far has the highest name recognition. His name recognition is particularly stunning when you realize its without a major US museum show.
As for the question posed by Silky, no I don't see Banksy as an establishment artists. I actually see him as post establishment. He really has reinvented the course by which art is sold, popularized, marketed, etc. He's democratized art in ways only Warhol has.
I'll go one further and say that in 40 years, I see Banksy being Knighted. Sir Banksy. I give it 50/50 odds.
Yes, I know I live over the pond, so I'm not an expert at knowing this monarchist crap. And I know people think I'm crazy for saying it.
But as I've argued before, despite his constant jabs at the monarchy and technically being a criminal (vandal), I still see this happening.
Reasons in short:
1) Paul McCartney was knighted. Despite being "your parents music," The Beatles were plenty controversial in their hey day.
2) Prince William is already counted as a fan.
3) By the end of his career, Banksy will have donated tens of millions to charity
4) I'm betting Banksy may go public sometime in his 50s-60s, when statute of limitations runs out on vandalism and he is too old to jump over walls. If not, I still see the possibility of Banksy being Knighted wearing his monkey mask.
5) Name the most famous graffiti artist. Its Bansky. Everyone who comes after will say they were influenced by him.
6) His work continues to evolve and get better. I'm seeing no signs that Banksy is getting "stale" overall. Sure, some of his early images are viewed as more "quaint" now compared to the freshness they had then, but much of his new, non-stencil stuff - from the Pet Store to Bristol Museum - is pretty much as modern and fresh as it gets. I see no signs of this failing to continue.
7) Among 18 - 25 year olds in America. If you ask them to name a modern British artist - or a British artist in general - I'd bet Banksy by far has the highest name recognition. His name recognition is particularly stunning when you realize its without a major US museum show.
As for the question posed by Silky, no I don't see Banksy as an establishment artists. I actually see him as post establishment. He really has reinvented the course by which art is sold, popularized, marketed, etc. He's democratized art in ways only Warhol has.
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gwenie
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December 2008
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by gwenie on Sept 29, 2009 23:19:10 GMT 1, "..... I still see the possibility of Banksy being Knighted wearing his monkey mask."
Interesting concept
"..... I still see the possibility of Banksy being Knighted wearing his monkey mask." Interesting concept |
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tinkicker
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April 2008
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by tinkicker on Sept 30, 2009 0:15:31 GMT 1, Ok lets spell it out!Great POst Raiden!Would Love to go out on the Town with ya!!When I came across the urban Art scene all I could Smell was Pure PUnk rock !!When I say that "I mean to say I take Mr.B as being the Pistols of this movement and those that followed like faile,shep,eelus,eine,grafter and many more! like the clash,damed,suzie,buzzcocks! Hirst even! but hes more like Magazine lol!Maybe Murphys PIssed but from day one I have seen it like that!Punk rock was a very powerful movement for people!!!!This is just taken the movement to a another Level!!!!!
Ok lets spell it out!Great POst Raiden!Would Love to go out on the Town with ya!!When I came across the urban Art scene all I could Smell was Pure PUnk rock !!When I say that "I mean to say I take Mr.B as being the Pistols of this movement and those that followed like faile,shep,eelus,eine,grafter and many more! like the clash,damed,suzie,buzzcocks! Hirst even! but hes more like Magazine lol!Maybe Murphys PIssed but from day one I have seen it like that!Punk rock was a very powerful movement for people!!!!This is just taken the movement to a another Level!!!!!
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sashaz
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January 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by sashaz on Sept 30, 2009 13:43:20 GMT 1, Banksy will be seen as the only memorable example of the London street art movement (the figurehead of a tiny blip on the large map of art history itself). So yes, he will be part of the establishment at some point if he's not already...
100% correct IMHO.
Banksy will be seen as the only memorable example of the London street art movement (the figurehead of a tiny blip on the large map of art history itself). So yes, he will be part of the establishment at some point if he's not already... 100% correct IMHO. |
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messy71
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February 2010
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by messy71 on Apr 7, 2010 16:59:24 GMT 1, Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post
but as i see it...
the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork...
When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!!
as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages....
the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie...
when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,000 (:modified:) people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often
anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good
Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states??
So anyway my answer....
Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him
My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not
morning all....
ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls....
meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx
Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!!
Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post but as i see it... the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork... When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!! as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages.... the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie... when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,000 (:modified:) people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states?? So anyway my answer.... Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not morning all.... ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls.... meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!! |
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spirit
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August 2007
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by spirit on Apr 7, 2010 17:04:33 GMT 1, Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post but as i see it... the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork... When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!! as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages.... the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie... when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,00 people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states?? So anyway my answer.... Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not morning all.... ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls.... meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!!
Welcome - far from making n 'rse of yourself you've made possibly the best first post ever.
Oh and re your question about the merits of early prints Vs later ones - why not just start a thread about it? As long as it's not related to buying or selling it should be fine in the general discussion section/main board.
Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post but as i see it... the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork... When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!! as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages.... the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie... when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,00 people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states?? So anyway my answer.... Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not morning all.... ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls.... meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!! Welcome - far from making n 'rse of yourself you've made possibly the best first post ever. Oh and re your question about the merits of early prints Vs later ones - why not just start a thread about it? As long as it's not related to buying or selling it should be fine in the general discussion section/main board. |
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by monkeyart on Apr 7, 2010 21:08:05 GMT 1, Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post but as i see it... the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork... When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!! as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages.... the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie... when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,00 people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states?? So anyway my answer.... Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not morning all.... ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls.... meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!!
Great post Messy and welcome to the forum :-)
Hi newbie here, and hope i dont make n' rse of meself with first post but as i see it... the art establishment, or rather the London clique (jay joplin, nick scrote-a, etc) tried to keep banksy out, he wasn't a serious artist they said, but very quickly, phenominally quickly in fact, Mr B completely bypassed them thru simple unashamed popularity and prolifically hardwork... When i first heard of Banksy back in 2003/4 i had a particular distaste for what i called Gimmick Art, but with B there was a huge difference, i felt he didn't pretend, the gimmick was infact the whole point and his own flavour bought a very neccessary level of fun to some very serious and spot on relevant issues... the time was very ripe!!! as his success grew i wondered if this would destroy or improve the work, last year i got along to the Bristol museum and this one show confirmed that he can take it all very much in his stride, i'd heard ol' Damien was now a fan and personally felt his Hurstmark all over those wonderfull cages.... the other main impression i got from that visit to bristol was the appeal to the general public, i passed at 8.00 am + there was a guy putting out Barriers, so i asked, when does the queue start ? & what time should i be back to avoid a long wait, he said the doors open at 10, so be here by 9.30 and you'll be fine, meanwhiles i wandered down to Stokes Croft for a lil' looksie... when i returned at 9.15 there were about 3,00 people infront of me, the barriers were full and the queue continued along the road to the pedestrian crossing (:if you know it:) but as long queues go they got us in a lot quicker than expected once doors opened, i digress... often anywho the point is that i've been to the centinary show of Van gogh in Amsterdam in 90 and major shows such as Matisse at the Pompidou, Paris that same year, a late Dekooning show in San Fran about 95, Baselitz too... same time, in LA, and yet i have NEVER seen a turn out like that before, and what was really great was that the crowds were whole families, kiddies n' Grandma's too, Hoodies were actually in the minority.... Local boy very much makes good Haven't caught the film yet, but i hear its worth a viewing too, tho i must say Brainwash images i've seen on the net are truely ghastly... was this a piss take/put down to the states?? So anyway my answer.... Banksy really doesn't need the art establishment, but they are beginning to realise they need him more to the point that they couldn't keep him out or stop him My only worry then became would they be able to disarm his threat to their rule with acceptance and reward, again i am glad to say... seems not morning all.... ps on the print side i am not at all sure his work is getting better, i much prefer the prints from 2003, could someone direct me to the right 'thread??' (:am new to forum etiquette, and there seems to be thousands of topics:) where i can ask a few questions about 2003 prints, particularly Flying Copper (:aka Pigs might fly:), Bombing Middle England and Bomb hugger pls.... meanwhiles Keep It Messy y'all xxXxx Oh and Hurst wont surrender his crown easily, but i think he's intellegent enough to have noticed that it's already been nicked!!!! Great post Messy and welcome to the forum :-) |
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jimbob68
New Member
Posts โข 151
Likes โข 1
January 2009
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by jimbob68 on Apr 7, 2010 21:59:43 GMT 1, I was introduced to this forum by another artist and it has been a huge and enjoyable discovery. I have collected art for nearly 50 years and the enthusiasm and open attitude here reminds me of my young art collecting days. Mr banksy has intrigued me and many others of my friends who are also "older" collectors!!! i think it is certain that no matter what he wants he will be regarded in art history as much as Hirst. I do think that he will always be considered a less serious artist by the establishment in the same way that Dali is but you must also consider the huge popularity of Dali in the publics eyes. And it is the public who make the real histories after all I think
I was introduced to this forum by another artist and it has been a huge and enjoyable discovery. I have collected art for nearly 50 years and the enthusiasm and open attitude here reminds me of my young art collecting days. Mr banksy has intrigued me and many others of my friends who are also "older" collectors!!! i think it is certain that no matter what he wants he will be regarded in art history as much as Hirst. I do think that he will always be considered a less serious artist by the establishment in the same way that Dali is but you must also consider the huge popularity of Dali in the publics eyes. And it is the public who make the real histories after all I think
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by bazzj04 on Apr 7, 2010 22:22:41 GMT 1, Great post Messy. Welcome
Great post Messy. Welcome |
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messy71
New Member
Posts โข 28
Likes โข 7
February 2010
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by messy71 on Apr 8, 2010 2:34:59 GMT 1, wow
 cheers 4 welcome guys !!! ;D
n' yes Jimbob i think you are right there, i did recall some mad queues the day i tried to get in at Figueres... in the end i gave up n' headed to Cadaques instead, and we are talking about a museum open everyday all year round many years after the event here.... havent been to Malaga yet but its on the list for this year
the wow was for quick n' warming responses, v.nicely indeedy, n' that 3,00 queue was 3,000
...at least
and theres a modify button too, just keeps getting easier... 
wow cheers 4 welcome guys !!! ;D n' yes Jimbob i think you are right there, i did recall some mad queues the day i tried to get in at Figueres... in the end i gave up n' headed to Cadaques instead, and we are talking about a museum open everyday all year round many years after the event here.... havent been to Malaga yet but its on the list for this year the wow was for quick n' warming responses, v.nicely indeedy, n' that 3,00 queue was 3,000 ...at least and theres a modify button too, just keeps getting easier... |
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alexnh123
New Member
Posts โข 851
Likes โข 9
October 2007
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Banksy - The Art Establishment, by alexnh123 on Apr 13, 2010 11:51:11 GMT 1, is mbw a trojan horse to get banksy to the forefront of the u.s public's conciousness?
post establishment - i like that phrase Raiden. I think Banksy has stretched the establishment to incorporate himself - as steve lazarides said in an interview in es magazine sometime back; they turned the art establishment on it's head so they could get in (or words to that effect).
The elephant with bomb strapped to back; this seems to be favoured by banksy of late - his stamp etc...is this a metaphor for himself do we think? An ever enlarging thing, steadily gaining momentum, but needing to tread carefully because it's carrying precious cargo that could go off, backfire, get caught, trip up at any minute? He's getting closer to the goal that he took the alternative route to - just not sure we or he knows what that goal is.
Banksy's is new art, for a new audience using and utilising new methods.
it's like the concept of saying when i'm an old man i'm not going to wear smart slacks and a shirt and tie like my grandad, but if i wear what i'm wearing now when i'm an old man, that too will probably look old fashioned. We are comparing apples and pears if we compare banksy to the current art world standards and consider where he stands in comparison to that - i think the art establishment will have to adapt for him to be fully part of it.
is mbw a trojan horse to get banksy to the forefront of the u.s public's conciousness?
post establishment - i like that phrase Raiden. I think Banksy has stretched the establishment to incorporate himself - as steve lazarides said in an interview in es magazine sometime back; they turned the art establishment on it's head so they could get in (or words to that effect).
The elephant with bomb strapped to back; this seems to be favoured by banksy of late - his stamp etc...is this a metaphor for himself do we think? An ever enlarging thing, steadily gaining momentum, but needing to tread carefully because it's carrying precious cargo that could go off, backfire, get caught, trip up at any minute? He's getting closer to the goal that he took the alternative route to - just not sure we or he knows what that goal is.
Banksy's is new art, for a new audience using and utilising new methods.
it's like the concept of saying when i'm an old man i'm not going to wear smart slacks and a shirt and tie like my grandad, but if i wear what i'm wearing now when i'm an old man, that too will probably look old fashioned. We are comparing apples and pears if we compare banksy to the current art world standards and consider where he stands in comparison to that - i think the art establishment will have to adapt for him to be fully part of it.
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cheers 4 welcome guys !!! ;D
