|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by colinfishwick on Dec 27, 2010 18:00:45 GMT 1, First thing to do is indeed to see a Solicitor. You might be surprised so it might worth the try. I'm not familiar with UK law so unfortunately I can't help. But my first though would be that firstly the print was not stolen, the credit card was stolen but the print was sold. Price was finally not paid but that's a different thing. Then your friend did not know about the situation and I guess he cannot have troubles for this. But like I said, I'm not familiar with UK law so professionnal advies is required here.
the print will be classed as stolen property, the person using the stolen card obtained the goods by deception, covered under the theft act 1968.
this happens with motor vehicles that are stolen, rung and sold on to people oblivious to it's history - you can do an HPI check on any car and it will tell you if there is outstanding finance/insurance write off/stolen etc but obviously you can't do that with Banksy's. you can however contact PC for info and take due diligence when spending large sums of money.
where there is serious cash to be had there will always be people willing to break the law and exploit people's good nature. the short and long of this is you must give the print back and argue the toss about it afterwards, the law is on the side of the person who suffered the loss, in this case AR. you may be able to to strike a deal with them to keep it by paying for it again at the price they sold it for but that is their prerogative, i'd like to think out of goodwill they would. your friend's fight is with the fraudulent seller and will have to chase that money down himself, not get in to dispute with AR.
take professional advice and follow it, that is absolutely essential.
First thing to do is indeed to see a Solicitor. You might be surprised so it might worth the try. I'm not familiar with UK law so unfortunately I can't help. But my first though would be that firstly the print was not stolen, the credit card was stolen but the print was sold. Price was finally not paid but that's a different thing. Then your friend did not know about the situation and I guess he cannot have troubles for this. But like I said, I'm not familiar with UK law so professionnal advies is required here. the print will be classed as stolen property, the person using the stolen card obtained the goods by deception, covered under the theft act 1968. this happens with motor vehicles that are stolen, rung and sold on to people oblivious to it's history - you can do an HPI check on any car and it will tell you if there is outstanding finance/insurance write off/stolen etc but obviously you can't do that with Banksy's. you can however contact PC for info and take due diligence when spending large sums of money. where there is serious cash to be had there will always be people willing to break the law and exploit people's good nature. the short and long of this is you must give the print back and argue the toss about it afterwards, the law is on the side of the person who suffered the loss, in this case AR. you may be able to to strike a deal with them to keep it by paying for it again at the price they sold it for but that is their prerogative, i'd like to think out of goodwill they would. your friend's fight is with the fraudulent seller and will have to chase that money down himself, not get in to dispute with AR. take professional advice and follow it, that is absolutely essential.
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by stillborncrisps on Dec 27, 2010 20:46:09 GMT 1, If this transaction happened in a bank like the OP said, the seller will be on their CCTV.
Also it will be the proof your mate needs that there was an exchange of cash, which your mate can then use to make a small claim against the seller, if he gets identified, to get back the cash.
IMO it's vital your mate gets hold of this footage before it gets wiped. Get down there at doors opening on Wednesday. Maybe the police can persuade the bank to co-operate in this matter if they start giving some 'data protection' BS.
Or maybe you can use Mark Thomas's 'Subject Access Request' trick to force the bank to give you the footage (costs £10 ISTR), or if your mate's a customer they might just do it out of goodwill.
There may be some dumb chance the seller is the same guy that did the fraudulant transaction at AR (was it in person?), so AR might look sympathetically on your mate's situ as he's effectively solved their crime for them.
Out of interest, was this a CYW print?
If this transaction happened in a bank like the OP said, the seller will be on their CCTV. Also it will be the proof your mate needs that there was an exchange of cash, which your mate can then use to make a small claim against the seller, if he gets identified, to get back the cash. IMO it's vital your mate gets hold of this footage before it gets wiped. Get down there at doors opening on Wednesday. Maybe the police can persuade the bank to co-operate in this matter if they start giving some 'data protection' BS. Or maybe you can use Mark Thomas's 'Subject Access Request' trick to force the bank to give you the footage (costs £10 ISTR), or if your mate's a customer they might just do it out of goodwill. There may be some dumb chance the seller is the same guy that did the fraudulant transaction at AR (was it in person?), so AR might look sympathetically on your mate's situ as he's effectively solved their crime for them. Out of interest, was this a CYW print?
|
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by stillborncrisps on Dec 27, 2010 22:35:19 GMT 1, Can you get AR to contact eBay to find out who the seller is, selling their stolen prints? Suppose it could be a hijacked eBay account though.
BTW - I think if this happened a while ago and AR have claimed on their insurance, the print technically belongs to their insurer and AR can't now ask for it back.
Can you get AR to contact eBay to find out who the seller is, selling their stolen prints? Suppose it could be a hijacked eBay account though.
BTW - I think if this happened a while ago and AR have claimed on their insurance, the print technically belongs to their insurer and AR can't now ask for it back.
|
|
craigf
Full Member
🗨️ 8,557
👍🏻 846
May 2007
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by craigf on Dec 27, 2010 22:46:38 GMT 1,
If it's the same seller I had a close shave. I sent a query before the auction ended, but only got a reply once it had finished and it was still available. I kept my distance seeing it was meant to have sold...
If it's the same seller I had a close shave. I sent a query before the auction ended, but only got a reply once it had finished and it was still available. I kept my distance seeing it was meant to have sold...
|
|
alexnh123
New Member
🗨️ 851
👍🏻 9
October 2007
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by alexnh123 on Dec 28, 2010 12:04:40 GMT 1, Good advice from Colin Fishwick, go with that, i would on reflection. Exercise caution.
Good advice from Colin Fishwick, go with that, i would on reflection. Exercise caution.
|
|
|
tobaum
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,077
👍🏻 7
November 2009
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by tobaum on Jan 2, 2011 14:43:46 GMT 1,
... if seller still have some cash at the end... don't bet on this...
... if seller still have some cash at the end... don't bet on this...
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by stillborncrisps on Jan 2, 2011 15:54:04 GMT 1, ... if seller still have some cash at the end... don't bet on this... If the seller doesn't pay back (assuming the small claim is successful) you can apply for bailiffs to recover the full amount owed.
Obv, the important thing for Acmeart's mate is to first find the identity of the guy.
... if seller still have some cash at the end... don't bet on this... If the seller doesn't pay back (assuming the small claim is successful) you can apply for bailiffs to recover the full amount owed. Obv, the important thing for Acmeart's mate is to first find the identity of the guy.
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by naughtyshorty on Jan 3, 2011 0:22:54 GMT 1, acemert - how much did u mate pay for the print? reason i ask is if u are engaging lawyers and all the rest u need to consider some perspective of how much money will be spent here on in to potentially recover v little..
acemert - how much did u mate pay for the print? reason i ask is if u are engaging lawyers and all the rest u need to consider some perspective of how much money will be spent here on in to potentially recover v little..
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by Coach on Jan 3, 2011 0:39:45 GMT 1, acemert - how much did u mate pay for the print? reason i ask is if u are engaging lawyers and all the rest u need to consider some perspective of how much money will be spent here on in to potentially recover v little..
Agree 100%. But there is quite a bit of conflicting advice on this thread, some of which, with respect to the posters, may not be correct. This is why I suggested near the top of this thread, that the op finds a firm of solicitors, with a specialist in litigation, and that he finds one that offers free initial advice. That way, he will know where he stands, whether it is worth pursuing, and the likely cost of doing so. Lots of high street firms offer free initial advice. Up to the op how he then acts, bearing in mind that advice. But it is certainly not worth embarking on litigation if there is a risk the costs (if not recoverable) exceeding the amount claimed, particularly bearing in mind the risk inherant in all litigation (of losing). One further thought - the op should check whether he has legal expenses insurance. It is often included in contents or motor insurance without the insured actually knowing about it. If so, op can get legal dvice free of charge that way, though is likely to have to use the insurer's panel solicitors (rather than having a completely free choice of solicitor). Hope this helps. c
acemert - how much did u mate pay for the print? reason i ask is if u are engaging lawyers and all the rest u need to consider some perspective of how much money will be spent here on in to potentially recover v little.. Agree 100%. But there is quite a bit of conflicting advice on this thread, some of which, with respect to the posters, may not be correct. This is why I suggested near the top of this thread, that the op finds a firm of solicitors, with a specialist in litigation, and that he finds one that offers free initial advice. That way, he will know where he stands, whether it is worth pursuing, and the likely cost of doing so. Lots of high street firms offer free initial advice. Up to the op how he then acts, bearing in mind that advice. But it is certainly not worth embarking on litigation if there is a risk the costs (if not recoverable) exceeding the amount claimed, particularly bearing in mind the risk inherant in all litigation (of losing). One further thought - the op should check whether he has legal expenses insurance. It is often included in contents or motor insurance without the insured actually knowing about it. If so, op can get legal dvice free of charge that way, though is likely to have to use the insurer's panel solicitors (rather than having a completely free choice of solicitor). Hope this helps. c
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by joeschmo on Jan 3, 2011 4:17:39 GMT 1, I think you have a pretty good chance of holding onto it. It wasn't stolen, it was PAID for with a stolen credit card, leaving most of the shit on AR's shoulders.
I think you have a pretty good chance of holding onto it. It wasn't stolen, it was PAID for with a stolen credit card, leaving most of the shit on AR's shoulders.
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by naughtyshorty on Jan 3, 2011 13:15:01 GMT 1, joeschmo - thats the same thing, it's still theft mate as AR dont receive the money as the credit card company will not honour the transaction.
joeschmo - thats the same thing, it's still theft mate as AR dont receive the money as the credit card company will not honour the transaction.
|
|
tobaum
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,077
👍🏻 7
November 2009
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by tobaum on Jan 4, 2011 18:01:46 GMT 1,
Yes, assuming the seller have some cash at the bank or some properties... don't bet on this...
Yes, assuming the seller have some cash at the bank or some properties... don't bet on this...
|
|
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by colinfishwick on Jan 4, 2011 18:06:20 GMT 1, joeschmo - thats the same thing, it's still theft mate as AR dont receive the money as the credit card company will not honour the transaction.
this is true, the bank will issue a chargeback as soon as they know of fraudulent use and so AR will be the ones to suffer a loss.
Coach gives some great advice, really best to go with what he says as the law is on the side of AR and it will catch up with you.
joeschmo - thats the same thing, it's still theft mate as AR dont receive the money as the credit card company will not honour the transaction. this is true, the bank will issue a chargeback as soon as they know of fraudulent use and so AR will be the ones to suffer a loss. Coach gives some great advice, really best to go with what he says as the law is on the side of AR and it will catch up with you.
|
|
|
pezlow
Junior Member
🗨️ 5,388
👍🏻 254
January 2007
|
STOLEN PRINT WHAT TO DO, by pezlow on Jan 4, 2011 18:11:15 GMT 1, Just reading this thread for the first time. There is some advice on it that is wrong. I'd be happy to have a chat with your friend if you want
Just reading this thread for the first time. There is some advice on it that is wrong. I'd be happy to have a chat with your friend if you want
|
|