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Is this a good deal?, by stevieray101 on Jan 20, 2011 22:20:40 GMT 1, Got offered a CYW slate for ยฃ3400 is this a good deal?
I can't for the life of me work out if CYW are over priced or if the limited edition sizes will result in the prints holding their value in the long run.
What have people been paying for their's (obvioulsy not talking about those that bought from POW for the jokers out there!)
Got offered a CYW slate for ยฃ3400 is this a good deal?
I can't for the life of me work out if CYW are over priced or if the limited edition sizes will result in the prints holding their value in the long run.
What have people been paying for their's (obvioulsy not talking about those that bought from POW for the jokers out there!)
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Is this a good deal?, by wizzy on Jan 20, 2011 22:30:32 GMT 1, Sounds like its a great deal for the seller.
Sounds like its a great deal for the seller.
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 20, 2011 23:15:11 GMT 1, In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon.
In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon.
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Is this a good deal?, by manty on Jan 20, 2011 23:21:47 GMT 1, LOL at the last two posts
I am glad we are all of the same opinion
LOL at the last two posts
I am glad we are all of the same opinion
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Is this a good deal?, by colinfishwick on Jan 20, 2011 23:23:13 GMT 1, i'm going to try and stay impartial here as i have one of these, going by what the auctions have finished up on ebay i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price.
perhaps if you compare to a 100 ed Grey then that kind of price for a 25 isn't too bad? i don't know, maybe these will come down a bit further still yet - only time will tell.
the main thing to consider here is if you do pay that price and in 12 months it's worth less than you paid will you still love it? how about if it's worth half that?
if the answer to either is no then walk away, chances are you won't lose much but i'd say to anyone buying now then they'll have to wait a very long time for these prints to appreciate further - can't see them going for much more than this, can anyone else?
i'm going to try and stay impartial here as i have one of these, going by what the auctions have finished up on ebay i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price.
perhaps if you compare to a 100 ed Grey then that kind of price for a 25 isn't too bad? i don't know, maybe these will come down a bit further still yet - only time will tell.
the main thing to consider here is if you do pay that price and in 12 months it's worth less than you paid will you still love it? how about if it's worth half that?
if the answer to either is no then walk away, chances are you won't lose much but i'd say to anyone buying now then they'll have to wait a very long time for these prints to appreciate further - can't see them going for much more than this, can anyone else?
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Is this a good deal?, by colinfishwick on Jan 20, 2011 23:26:03 GMT 1, In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon.
really?
In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. really? |
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Is this a good deal?, by manty on Jan 20, 2011 23:31:36 GMT 1, Good reply Colin
Might drop to ยฃ2000, might go upto ยฃ4500, might stay the same, hold fire and get one for ยฃ2500, or miss this one and have to pay ยฃ3,800 ?
Would i pay the price the guy wants? maybe if i wanted it that much and had the spare and i mean spare cash, knowing it wouldn't piss me off every morning when I see it in the mirror whilst drinking my first cuppa knowing it was worth a grand less than I paid
But there are quite a few Banksys I would much rather have over this one.
ommmmmmm
Good reply Colin
Might drop to ยฃ2000, might go upto ยฃ4500, might stay the same, hold fire and get one for ยฃ2500, or miss this one and have to pay ยฃ3,800 ?
Would i pay the price the guy wants? maybe if i wanted it that much and had the spare and i mean spare cash, knowing it wouldn't piss me off every morning when I see it in the mirror whilst drinking my first cuppa knowing it was worth a grand less than I paid
But there are quite a few Banksys I would much rather have over this one.
ommmmmmm
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mmmike
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Is this a good deal?, by mmmike on Jan 20, 2011 23:31:40 GMT 1, In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon.
lol
In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. lol |
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 20, 2011 23:33:28 GMT 1, In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. really?
Yes, i do think so. The editions of 25 anyway.
100, obviously a bit less.
Ok maybe bargain was a bit strong but i do think they will start creeping up in price once they find homes.
You cant honestly say thats a laughable statement, look what happened to Nola?
In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. really? Yes, i do think so. The editions of 25 anyway. 100, obviously a bit less. Ok maybe bargain was a bit strong but i do think they will start creeping up in price once they find homes. You cant honestly say thats a laughable statement, look what happened to Nola? |
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 20, 2011 23:34:30 GMT 1, In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. lol
Whats funny?
In a years time ยฃ3400 will seem like a bargain i reckon. lol Whats funny? |
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Is this a good deal?, by colinfishwick on Jan 20, 2011 23:41:14 GMT 1, Karl Read, perhaps - i wasn't laughing BTW 
i just think that there are a lot of economic reasons why there are far more buyers than sellers these days - on all Banksy prints - and that prices are creeping back to the high water mark of 2007/08, give it twelve months and they won't be much more than this, if at all IMHO.
it could be that this year prints peak higher than they did before but they'll soon dip again should interest rates rise and unemployment gets worse, no one knows the future but think back to 12 months ago and you could buy a Grin Reaper for under ยฃ3K, now it's close to ยฃ5K again - at that rate we'll be paying ยฃ8K for one next year!!
Karl Read, perhaps - i wasn't laughing BTW i just think that there are a lot of economic reasons why there are far more buyers than sellers these days - on all Banksy prints - and that prices are creeping back to the high water mark of 2007/08, give it twelve months and they won't be much more than this, if at all IMHO. it could be that this year prints peak higher than they did before but they'll soon dip again should interest rates rise and unemployment gets worse, no one knows the future but think back to 12 months ago and you could buy a Grin Reaper for under ยฃ3K, now it's close to ยฃ5K again - at that rate we'll be paying ยฃ8K for one next year!!
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hlarmy
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Is this a good deal?, by hlarmy on Jan 20, 2011 23:41:37 GMT 1, If you're planning on holding onto it for 3+ years then it's a good deal (probably!). If you think you may sell in the next couple of years, then it may prove less of a good deal but who knows... if you can afford it and love the print, buy it as these are becoming rarer by the day 
If you're planning on holding onto it for 3+ years then it's a good deal (probably!). If you think you may sell in the next couple of years, then it may prove less of a good deal but who knows... if you can afford it and love the print, buy it as these are becoming rarer by the day |
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 20, 2011 23:54:35 GMT 1, Karl Read, perhaps - i wasn't laughing BTW i just think that there are a lot of economic reasons why there are far more buyers than sellers these days - on all Banksy prints - and that prices are creeping back to the high water mark of 2007/08, give it twelve months and they won't be much more than this, if at all IMHO.it could be that this year prints peak higher than they did before but they'll soon dip again should interest rates rise and unemployment gets worse, no one knows the future but think back to 12 months ago and you could buy a Grin Reaper for under ยฃ3K, now it's close to ยฃ5K again - at that rate we'll be paying ยฃ8K for one next year!!
Also very good points Colin.
Karl Read, perhaps - i wasn't laughing BTW i just think that there are a lot of economic reasons why there are far more buyers than sellers these days - on all Banksy prints - and that prices are creeping back to the high water mark of 2007/08, give it twelve months and they won't be much more than this, if at all IMHO.it could be that this year prints peak higher than they did before but they'll soon dip again should interest rates rise and unemployment gets worse, no one knows the future but think back to 12 months ago and you could buy a Grin Reaper for under ยฃ3K, now it's close to ยฃ5K again - at that rate we'll be paying ยฃ8K for one next year!! Also very good points Colin. |
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redfred
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Is this a good deal?, by redfred on Jan 20, 2011 23:59:33 GMT 1, I think these are going to be very difficult to get hold of in 12 months time, love em or hate em there are only 25 of each and there would appear to be quite a few buyers collecting and framing more than one colour so there are going to be a lot that will not see the secondary market. Difficult to decide if its worth ยฃ3400, only you can answer that one, but if you dont buy it you may not get another chance!
I think these are going to be very difficult to get hold of in 12 months time, love em or hate em there are only 25 of each and there would appear to be quite a few buyers collecting and framing more than one colour so there are going to be a lot that will not see the secondary market. Difficult to decide if its worth ยฃ3400, only you can answer that one, but if you dont buy it you may not get another chance!
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olgi
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Is this a good deal?, by olgi on Jan 21, 2011 0:00:23 GMT 1, It's a edition of 25. I won't part with mine for any other print which got a much higher edition.
It's a edition of 25. I won't part with mine for any other print which got a much higher edition.
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Is this a good deal?, by boaty on Jan 21, 2011 1:02:12 GMT 1, ...i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price....
;D agree ;D
...i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price.... ;D agree ;D |
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Is this a good deal?, by truetiger on Jan 21, 2011 1:13:36 GMT 1, i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated.
Donuts 1500
Trolleys 1250
VLH 1750
S&S 1750
MORONS 2000
Oh and CYW 2500
i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500 |
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pelle
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Is this a good deal?, by pelle on Jan 21, 2011 1:23:11 GMT 1, i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price.
fitting, as the same could be said about the quality of the artwork itself.
i'd say this is neither a good price or a bad price. fitting, as the same could be said about the quality of the artwork itself. |
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Is this a good deal?, by don on Jan 21, 2011 1:50:44 GMT 1, i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500
Wake up and smell the coffee
i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500 Wake up and smell the coffee |
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mmmike
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Is this a good deal?, by mmmike on Jan 21, 2011 4:24:10 GMT 1,
It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys.
I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints.
I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny.
It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny. |
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schnulli
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Is this a good deal?, by schnulli on Jan 21, 2011 4:50:19 GMT 1, It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny.
Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on  )
It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny. Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on ) |
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Dave
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Is this a good deal?, by Dave on Jan 21, 2011 8:44:24 GMT 1, I agree on the hype surrounding a release by Banksy but this on has been more so because of the very limited editions. An edition of 25 on a signed Banksy is a collectors dream.
I agree on the hype surrounding a release by Banksy but this on has been more so because of the very limited editions. An edition of 25 on a signed Banksy is a collectors dream.
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jp
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Is this a good deal?, by jp on Jan 21, 2011 9:17:45 GMT 1, It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny. Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on )
I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best.
I hope that eventually Banksy will release a print that generates the same amount of discussion about the image by his fans here as the price and edition size. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a long time.
We will know that he finally got an image right when the rest of the art market is talking about it as much as all of the people on this forum.
It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny. Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on ) I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best. I hope that eventually Banksy will release a print that generates the same amount of discussion about the image by his fans here as the price and edition size. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a long time. We will know that he finally got an image right when the rest of the art market is talking about it as much as all of the people on this forum. |
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Phat Spider
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Is this a good deal?, by Phat Spider on Jan 21, 2011 9:23:03 GMT 1, Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on ) I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best. I hope that eventually Banksy will release a print that generates the same amount of discussion about the image by his fans here as the price and edition size. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a long time. We will know that he finally got an image right when the rest of the art market is talking about it as much as all of the people on this forum.
Word!
Couldn't agree more.....can't wait for the next release (that I'll also miss out on ) I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best. I hope that eventually Banksy will release a print that generates the same amount of discussion about the image by his fans here as the price and edition size. I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a long time. We will know that he finally got an image right when the rest of the art market is talking about it as much as all of the people on this forum. Word! |
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jakek
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Is this a good deal?, by jakek on Jan 21, 2011 9:51:00 GMT 1, I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best.
I have to gree, but i'm very pleased that it's this way round. Wouldn't it be depressing to only have 2or3 street pieces a year and them all to be turned in to prints.
I think his street wor is better because it (often) involves the environment with it's placement, and this is lost when transferred to paper.
I don't think it's ever going to happen. The vibe around banksy prints is now fixed - it's all about collecting, owning or the money and less about the art and the image.
Wha has confused me about this print is people who have bought multiple colourways. It's not a criticism but i just don't understand the logic. If you like the image and have the cash (or got lucky) then it's great to have one on the wall but why have 2 or 3 of them? If i had the cash to by 3 CYW then i'd only buy one and buy 2 other prints (or originals by other artists but that's a whole different thread) and get more enjoyment from them.
I find the amount of endless discussion about price and edition size funny but also sad. I have not seen a Banksy print that I liked as much as his street output of the same year since 2006 when I saw Trolley Hunters for the first time. His print output since that time has been disappointing, especially when you compare it to his street work. It's like different people are doing the street work and the prints. His choice this year was a street image, but it was definitely not one of his best. I have to gree, but i'm very pleased that it's this way round. Wouldn't it be depressing to only have 2or3 street pieces a year and them all to be turned in to prints. I think his street wor is better because it (often) involves the environment with it's placement, and this is lost when transferred to paper. I don't think it's ever going to happen. The vibe around banksy prints is now fixed - it's all about collecting, owning or the money and less about the art and the image. Wha has confused me about this print is people who have bought multiple colourways. It's not a criticism but i just don't understand the logic. If you like the image and have the cash (or got lucky) then it's great to have one on the wall but why have 2 or 3 of them? If i had the cash to by 3 CYW then i'd only buy one and buy 2 other prints (or originals by other artists but that's a whole different thread) and get more enjoyment from them. |
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 21, 2011 9:58:15 GMT 1, It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny.
I also think its funny that some people that didnt get one are equally trying to talk prices down. I wasnt hyping i also agreed with C.F.W on his points also. Only time will tell, this seems to be a love it or hate it print.
Look at truetigers post, talking down prices, 1500 for a donut! I got offered 1700-1800 on here for mine from about 5 or 6 people in a couple of days.
It is funny how people won't stop talking up prices. They are an edition of 25 but there are 15 or 16 X 25 plus all the greys. I love the print but why all the speculation. Personally I would still rather have so many other Banksy prints. I think all the hype over these will die when the next big thing comes out. Then everyone will want to trade these for the what ever that happens to be. I find the whole thing very funny. I also think its funny that some people that didnt get one are equally trying to talk prices down. I wasnt hyping i also agreed with C.F.W on his points also. Only time will tell, this seems to be a love it or hate it print. Look at truetigers post, talking down prices, 1500 for a donut! I got offered 1700-1800 on here for mine from about 5 or 6 people in a couple of days. |
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balibob
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Is this a good deal?, by balibob on Jan 21, 2011 11:17:01 GMT 1, i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500
If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them
i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500 If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them |
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Karl Read
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Is this a good deal?, by Karl Read on Jan 21, 2011 11:46:30 GMT 1, i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500 If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them
Agreed, il take a VLH for 1750 if anyone has one?
i wouldnt pay it personally. Prices compared to what pieces were going for last year have nearly doubled. People wanting 3k for donuts and morons available at 3k or make an offer says it all. Its all a waiting game, Many people on here are just high as kite trying to keep prices inflated. Donuts 1500 Trolleys 1250 VLH 1750 S&S 1750 MORONS 2000 Oh and CYW 2500 If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them Agreed, il take a VLH for 1750 if anyone has one? |
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cpo
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Is this a good deal?, by cpo on Jan 21, 2011 12:32:58 GMT 1, If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them Agreed, il take a VLH for 1750 if anyone has one?
Admittedly, I already have a Trolleys, but I would buy a second for 1250.. what is that in dollars? $2000? are you mad?
If you've got any of the above at those prices you would be trampled in the stampede to buy them Agreed, il take a VLH for 1750 if anyone has one? Admittedly, I already have a Trolleys, but I would buy a second for 1250.. what is that in dollars? $2000? are you mad? |
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Is this a good deal?, by stevieray101 on Jan 21, 2011 12:43:25 GMT 1, Good reply Colin Might drop to ยฃ2000, might go upto ยฃ4500, might stay the same, hold fire and get one for ยฃ2500, or miss this one and have to pay ยฃ3,800 ? Would i pay the price the guy wants? maybe if i wanted it that much and had the spare and i mean spare cash, knowing it wouldn't piss me off every morning when I see it in the mirror whilst drinking my first cuppa knowing it was worth a grand less than I paid But there are quite a few Banksys I would much rather have over this one. ommmmmmm
best reply, Colin you also make some good points
i decided not to proceed in the end, i'd rather pay that money for a lemon CYW and enjoy the print. I was sort of forcing myself to buy it if that makes sense, rather than let the opportunity slip.
considering a soup can signed edtion of 10 sold at bonhams for ยฃ4.5k recently I find it hard to believe that CYW's will be worth more than that in the medium terms (3-5 yrs)
the soup cans were released before the market blew up, so to get a mint edition is very hard. my mate still has one stuck to his wall with blue tack. Banksy, wasn't Banksy back then.
now everyone will have their CYM framed to museum standards and in acid proof paper etc. - everyone is in on the game, so prints are less likely to get damaged and become even rarer.
Good reply Colin Might drop to ยฃ2000, might go upto ยฃ4500, might stay the same, hold fire and get one for ยฃ2500, or miss this one and have to pay ยฃ3,800 ? Would i pay the price the guy wants? maybe if i wanted it that much and had the spare and i mean spare cash, knowing it wouldn't piss me off every morning when I see it in the mirror whilst drinking my first cuppa knowing it was worth a grand less than I paid But there are quite a few Banksys I would much rather have over this one. ommmmmmm best reply, Colin you also make some good points i decided not to proceed in the end, i'd rather pay that money for a lemon CYW and enjoy the print. I was sort of forcing myself to buy it if that makes sense, rather than let the opportunity slip. considering a soup can signed edtion of 10 sold at bonhams for ยฃ4.5k recently I find it hard to believe that CYW's will be worth more than that in the medium terms (3-5 yrs) the soup cans were released before the market blew up, so to get a mint edition is very hard. my mate still has one stuck to his wall with blue tack. Banksy, wasn't Banksy back then. now everyone will have their CYM framed to museum standards and in acid proof paper etc. - everyone is in on the game, so prints are less likely to get damaged and become even rarer. |
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