pastiepie
New Member
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October 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by pastiepie on Aug 3, 2007 4:10:15 GMT 1, I like to think that selling prints helps with exposure and gets the message out to more people, and Found was hardly your normal gallery show. Also the fact that he's donated profits to charity in the past is highly applauded.
I'm not trying to "big-up" all street artists, I just think a particular few including Banksy are doing what they can to give back to community.
To an extent agree that forcing your anti-capitalism views can get a bit much. Bill Gates has donated over $29billion to charities yet we don't see Pro-Microsoft art out there.
I like to think that selling prints helps with exposure and gets the message out to more people, and Found was hardly your normal gallery show. Also the fact that he's donated profits to charity in the past is highly applauded.
I'm not trying to "big-up" all street artists, I just think a particular few including Banksy are doing what they can to give back to community.
To an extent agree that forcing your anti-capitalism views can get a bit much. Bill Gates has donated over $29billion to charities yet we don't see Pro-Microsoft art out there.
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Photoxtc
Junior Member
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July 2007
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by Photoxtc on Aug 3, 2007 4:14:10 GMT 1, It's funny how profit and sales now defines an artist in some peoples eyes... Blah Blah Blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's funny how profit and sales now defines an artist in some peoples eyes... Blah Blah Blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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goffy
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November 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by goffy on Aug 3, 2007 4:48:55 GMT 1, Uh!
Uh!
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by corblimeylimey on Aug 3, 2007 12:04:19 GMT 1, What's your beef with Beejoir mose? what's the problem in people liking his stuff, he's built up a following through producing good work.
He doesn't need to be a 'proven artist' before you buy his work, glad he wasn't in fact when I did as I got a nice print for ยฃ65.
You seem to base art on monetary performance saying in two years time the prints in tubes or in closets with be worthless, what's the future monetary worth of art got to do with the quality of the art?. In fact people are framing their art and enjoying it, we've seen dozens of framed Turin Scam and LV Child prints on this forum, hardly sitting around in tubes are they.
What's your beef with Beejoir mose? what's the problem in people liking his stuff, he's built up a following through producing good work.
He doesn't need to be a 'proven artist' before you buy his work, glad he wasn't in fact when I did as I got a nice print for ยฃ65.
You seem to base art on monetary performance saying in two years time the prints in tubes or in closets with be worthless, what's the future monetary worth of art got to do with the quality of the art?. In fact people are framing their art and enjoying it, we've seen dozens of framed Turin Scam and LV Child prints on this forum, hardly sitting around in tubes are they.
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beyond
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๐จ๏ธ 131
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December 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by beyond on Aug 3, 2007 12:26:40 GMT 1, imo, Beejoir really hasn't 'proven' anything. Potential? yes. how many sold-out gallery shows has he had? how many prints has he sold? What's his record at auction? hell, Dan Baldwin, who many like to rag on here, is far more established at this point. many want the 'next' so badly that they jump the gun something fierce. So far, Beejoir is the current flavor of the darkside Banksy board and not much more. Lets turn this thread around can you please tell the masses what art/artist they should be buying 1. the ones you like 2. do your own homework 3. if you are looking for investment, you buy when others are not looking or when there is blood in the street.
Look at step three of your rules with Beejoir's Lv child and Turin Scam both selling out and branded as classic pieces when he is not established in your eyes could it be that everyone who brought those prints did so when others like yourself were not looking?
or could it be that they followed step 1 of your rules and brought because they liked the prints? CBL is right you can find plenty of pics of them framed and hanging on walls on this forum.
or are you pissed that you did not follow step 2 of your own rules? ;D
imo, Beejoir really hasn't 'proven' anything. Potential? yes. how many sold-out gallery shows has he had? how many prints has he sold? What's his record at auction? hell, Dan Baldwin, who many like to rag on here, is far more established at this point. many want the 'next' so badly that they jump the gun something fierce. So far, Beejoir is the current flavor of the darkside Banksy board and not much more. Lets turn this thread around can you please tell the masses what art/artist they should be buying 1. the ones you like 2. do your own homework 3. if you are looking for investment, you buy when others are not looking or when there is blood in the street. Look at step three of your rules with Beejoir's Lv child and Turin Scam both selling out and branded as classic pieces when he is not established in your eyes could it be that everyone who brought those prints did so when others like yourself were not looking? or could it be that they followed step 1 of your rules and brought because they liked the prints? CBL is right you can find plenty of pics of them framed and hanging on walls on this forum. or are you pissed that you did not follow step 2 of your own rules? ;D |
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by buffin on Aug 3, 2007 12:29:11 GMT 1, Time will tell i guess but a great start for Beejoir imo. Managed to have a quick word with him at the Found preview (what a nice guy) and he seemed pretty pleased with the new stuff he was doing for the exhibition. He thinks its a step up on what he has done so far! If it is then that will be mindblowing. Would love a Turin Scam as for me its far and away the best thing I've seen this year.
Time will tell i guess but a great start for Beejoir imo. Managed to have a quick word with him at the Found preview (what a nice guy) and he seemed pretty pleased with the new stuff he was doing for the exhibition. He thinks its a step up on what he has done so far! If it is then that will be mindblowing. Would love a Turin Scam as for me its far and away the best thing I've seen this year.
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Winter
Junior Member
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March 2007
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by Winter on Aug 3, 2007 12:47:29 GMT 1, Beejoir has genuine talent and good ideas. His work is not a rip off of Banksy like so many artists out there. He has the style, the ideas and the execution. He also now has the following. He is building himself up slowly and when he does a solo show it is going to be pretty strong and well received. All IMO of course.
Beejoir has genuine talent and good ideas. His work is not a rip off of Banksy like so many artists out there. He has the style, the ideas and the execution. He also now has the following. He is building himself up slowly and when he does a solo show it is going to be pretty strong and well received. All IMO of course.
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by mose on Aug 3, 2007 13:07:13 GMT 1, What's your beef with Beejoir mose? what's the problem in people liking his stuff, he's built up a following through producing good work. He doesn't need to be a 'proven artist' before you buy his work, glad he wasn't in fact when I did as I got a nice print for ยฃ65. You seem to base art on monetary performance saying in two years time the prints in tubes or in closets with be worthless, what's the future monetary worth of art got to do with the quality of the art?. In fact people are framing their art and enjoying it, we've seen dozens of framed Turin Scam and LV Child prints on this forum, hardly sitting around in tubes are they.
no beef with Beejoir. In fact, I quite like the LV Child I'm staring at.
My beef is with what I see going on. It is all fine and dandy to say "buy what you like" etc., it is the creed we should all live by. Reality is, art is not pure, neither from an artist's perspective, nor a gallery's perspective, nor a museum's perspective, nor the buyers' perspective. 99% of us have financial interests that also come into play. Some of us justify spending way more than we should on art with the ebay prices we could get for our collections, some of us are 'trade-up' guys, some of us are 'buy-and-hold'. We buy what we like, as long as we know that it will at least hold value if not go up substantially. No one, I don't care how fantastic the work is, would say, "I pay 500 GBP today, six months later it is worth 50 GBP, and I don't care because I love it so much." That "I got burned" feeling would overwhelm the aesthetic appreciation right quick.
Well, in the current situation, people are playing dangerous games.
1. They are buying on credit basing their calculus on rising prices.
2. They are investing heavy into artists they feel are 'proven' without following the traditional guidelines for what 'established' means in the art world.
3. They are chasing the 'next big thing' based on visibility.
4. The street art tide that has risen has brought some junk up from the depths, junk people are actually big-upping, purchasing, etc.
5. They think street art is somehow different from the art world in general and that the same rules, patterns, and games don't apply.
So, in the end, my 'beef' is with the pain that is a-coming and those that are hastening the crash with silliness. A lot of people are going to get hurt, and yes they may deserve it, and yes i will be callous enough to pick through the wreckage buying while blood is in the streets, but it is still going to suck to see what happens to communities like this board.
Why I stress 'proven' and 'establish' so much is because in every crash, regardless of commodity(and yes, art is a commodity) it is the top-shelf, the proven and the established, that take a dip and live on to regain their former strength and rise. The fast-risers, the bad fundamentals, the hype, etc. flame out and take many with them.
again, this is all my opinion and i fully understand others may think my opinion is crap.
What's your beef with Beejoir mose? what's the problem in people liking his stuff, he's built up a following through producing good work. He doesn't need to be a 'proven artist' before you buy his work, glad he wasn't in fact when I did as I got a nice print for ยฃ65. You seem to base art on monetary performance saying in two years time the prints in tubes or in closets with be worthless, what's the future monetary worth of art got to do with the quality of the art?. In fact people are framing their art and enjoying it, we've seen dozens of framed Turin Scam and LV Child prints on this forum, hardly sitting around in tubes are they. no beef with Beejoir. In fact, I quite like the LV Child I'm staring at. My beef is with what I see going on. It is all fine and dandy to say "buy what you like" etc., it is the creed we should all live by. Reality is, art is not pure, neither from an artist's perspective, nor a gallery's perspective, nor a museum's perspective, nor the buyers' perspective. 99% of us have financial interests that also come into play. Some of us justify spending way more than we should on art with the ebay prices we could get for our collections, some of us are 'trade-up' guys, some of us are 'buy-and-hold'. We buy what we like, as long as we know that it will at least hold value if not go up substantially. No one, I don't care how fantastic the work is, would say, "I pay 500 GBP today, six months later it is worth 50 GBP, and I don't care because I love it so much." That "I got burned" feeling would overwhelm the aesthetic appreciation right quick. Well, in the current situation, people are playing dangerous games. 1. They are buying on credit basing their calculus on rising prices. 2. They are investing heavy into artists they feel are 'proven' without following the traditional guidelines for what 'established' means in the art world. 3. They are chasing the 'next big thing' based on visibility. 4. The street art tide that has risen has brought some junk up from the depths, junk people are actually big-upping, purchasing, etc. 5. They think street art is somehow different from the art world in general and that the same rules, patterns, and games don't apply. So, in the end, my 'beef' is with the pain that is a-coming and those that are hastening the crash with silliness. A lot of people are going to get hurt, and yes they may deserve it, and yes i will be callous enough to pick through the wreckage buying while blood is in the streets, but it is still going to suck to see what happens to communities like this board. Why I stress 'proven' and 'establish' so much is because in every crash, regardless of commodity(and yes, art is a commodity) it is the top-shelf, the proven and the established, that take a dip and live on to regain their former strength and rise. The fast-risers, the bad fundamentals, the hype, etc. flame out and take many with them. again, this is all my opinion and i fully understand others may think my opinion is crap. |
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by corblimeylimey on Aug 3, 2007 13:19:10 GMT 1, I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games.
I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games.
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by mose on Aug 3, 2007 13:23:10 GMT 1, I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games.
big-bad art investors will be fine, for the reasons you state. They win more than they lose and keep a-movin.
It is 'mom-and-pop' and 'average joe' dabblers that get brutalized in a crash. Many of us here are average joes that got some of that good old 'irrational exuberance'.
I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games. big-bad art investors will be fine, for the reasons you state. They win more than they lose and keep a-movin. It is 'mom-and-pop' and 'average joe' dabblers that get brutalized in a crash. Many of us here are average joes that got some of that good old 'irrational exuberance'. |
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by corblimeylimey on Aug 3, 2007 13:31:24 GMT 1, I'd be surprised if many on here (aside from the real art investors & the quick flippers) are buying with money as the primary reason, personally I'm not. Some stuff I've bought has 'performed' very well indeed, some I thought would and others I had no idea would. Other stuff I've bought I know won't be worth any more than I paid for it, in fact even slightly less.
I'd be surprised if many on here (aside from the real art investors & the quick flippers) are buying with money as the primary reason, personally I'm not. Some stuff I've bought has 'performed' very well indeed, some I thought would and others I had no idea would. Other stuff I've bought I know won't be worth any more than I paid for it, in fact even slightly less.
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by bobbymeachamjr on Aug 3, 2007 14:59:46 GMT 1, Mose I agree with you 100%. I've made some passing one liners about this inevitability but nothing as elaborate as yours. I figure amongst the "irrational exuberance" people get a little delusional = don't listen.
Mose I agree with you 100%. I've made some passing one liners about this inevitability but nothing as elaborate as yours. I figure amongst the "irrational exuberance" people get a little delusional = don't listen.
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by corblimeylimey on Aug 3, 2007 15:34:29 GMT 1, Mose I agree with you 100%. I've made some passing one liners about this inevitability but nothing as elaborate as yours. I figure amongst the "irrational exuberance" people get a little delusional = don't listen.
What are you saying? stop buying the art cos one day it may not be worth as much?
So what? how many on here spend over ยฃ10,000 on a car that won't be worth as much in the future, why should art owe you money?
I just don't get it, if people pay over the odds for stuff they want and like, fair enough, if people make bad investments, tough shit.
Mose I agree with you 100%. I've made some passing one liners about this inevitability but nothing as elaborate as yours. I figure amongst the "irrational exuberance" people get a little delusional = don't listen. What are you saying? stop buying the art cos one day it may not be worth as much? So what? how many on here spend over ยฃ10,000 on a car that won't be worth as much in the future, why should art owe you money? I just don't get it, if people pay over the odds for stuff they want and like, fair enough, if people make bad investments, tough shit. |
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pezlow
Junior Member
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January 2007
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by pezlow on Aug 3, 2007 15:50:46 GMT 1, I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games.
CBL this is a rather shortsighted point of view. The so called "art investors" who you speak about in such pejorative terms are quite a lot of people on this board who are probably living off credit to fund their addiction. I doubt many of them are city boys or playing stock market games.
Most of what mose says is absolutely spot on. I do worry for people here. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford the art I buy, just about, although buying a neate print today does mean I will need to sell some more stuff soon. But there is no doubt that this whole market is being built on a pile of consumer credit and that it is fundamentally unstable.
I wouldn't worry about art investors, they'll have to look after themselves, they'll win some , they'll lose some, so what? I don't care about their investments any more than I care about their stock market games. CBL this is a rather shortsighted point of view. The so called "art investors" who you speak about in such pejorative terms are quite a lot of people on this board who are probably living off credit to fund their addiction. I doubt many of them are city boys or playing stock market games. Most of what mose says is absolutely spot on. I do worry for people here. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford the art I buy, just about, although buying a neate print today does mean I will need to sell some more stuff soon. But there is no doubt that this whole market is being built on a pile of consumer credit and that it is fundamentally unstable. |
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by corblimeylimey on Aug 3, 2007 16:14:11 GMT 1, Sorry, I still don't get it.
No one has to buy art, if you do 'need' it buy something cheap. Sorry I've got no pity for those who feel they need to spend ยฃ1000 or ยฃ5000 on art they 'must' have and borrow money to buy it, control yourselves people, I really like the Neate stuff I've seen posted here too, but on wages of under ยฃ30,000 I feel I can't afford it, I'm sure I'll live with out it.
Sorry, I still don't get it.
No one has to buy art, if you do 'need' it buy something cheap. Sorry I've got no pity for those who feel they need to spend ยฃ1000 or ยฃ5000 on art they 'must' have and borrow money to buy it, control yourselves people, I really like the Neate stuff I've seen posted here too, but on wages of under ยฃ30,000 I feel I can't afford it, I'm sure I'll live with out it.
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pezlow
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,388
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January 2007
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by pezlow on Aug 3, 2007 16:19:34 GMT 1, Sorry, I still don't get it. No one has to buy art, if you do 'need' it buy something cheap. Sorry I've got no pity for those who feel they need to spend ยฃ1000 or ยฃ5000 on art they 'must' have and borrow money to buy it, control yourselves people, I really like the Neate stuff I've seen posted here too, but on wages of under ยฃ30,000 I feel I can't afford it, I'm sure I'll live with out it.
True but that doesn't mean that you can't have concern for people. "Pity" is the wrong word.
We have all made mistakes in life (I certainly have) and I really hope people are not making a mistake by getting too much into debt they can't afford.
Sorry, I still don't get it. No one has to buy art, if you do 'need' it buy something cheap. Sorry I've got no pity for those who feel they need to spend ยฃ1000 or ยฃ5000 on art they 'must' have and borrow money to buy it, control yourselves people, I really like the Neate stuff I've seen posted here too, but on wages of under ยฃ30,000 I feel I can't afford it, I'm sure I'll live with out it. True but that doesn't mean that you can't have concern for people. "Pity" is the wrong word. We have all made mistakes in life (I certainly have) and I really hope people are not making a mistake by getting too much into debt they can't afford. |
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beyond
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 131
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December 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by beyond on Aug 3, 2007 17:35:14 GMT 1, You may have a case if you were talking about other artists but to pick Beejoir and Mantis out is IMO to flaw your argument.
Who will be sweating on their 'investment' after blowing ยฃ35 on an Lv child? or splashing ยฃ65 pounds on a turin scam?
IMO the affordability of these prints has helped make both Beejoir and Mantis so popular at such an early stage at those prices you only have to decide if you like the image.
and IMHO all of these artists' images have been strong in fact i believe most are classic
You may have a case if you were talking about other artists but to pick Beejoir and Mantis out is IMO to flaw your argument.
Who will be sweating on their 'investment' after blowing ยฃ35 on an Lv child? or splashing ยฃ65 pounds on a turin scam?
IMO the affordability of these prints has helped make both Beejoir and Mantis so popular at such an early stage at those prices you only have to decide if you like the image.
and IMHO all of these artists' images have been strong in fact i believe most are classic
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by paulypaul on Oct 18, 2007 20:38:39 GMT 1, Evolution just went for ยฃ101 and All Fall Down ยฃ127....
Evolution just went for ยฃ101 and All Fall Down ยฃ127....
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by manchestermike on Oct 18, 2007 20:40:39 GMT 1, Surely that's about ยฃ100 off rock bottom 
Surely that's about ยฃ100 off rock bottom |
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ABC
Artist
Junior Member
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August 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by ABC on Oct 18, 2007 21:08:50 GMT 1, Not being funny but what are you expecting?
Not being funny but what are you expecting?
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la
New Member
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May 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by la on Oct 18, 2007 21:45:06 GMT 1, prints maybe. Still value in his originals
prints maybe. Still value in his originals
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Montubu7
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,196
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November 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by Montubu7 on Oct 18, 2007 22:44:45 GMT 1, prints maybe. Still value in his originals
 ;D
prints maybe. Still value in his originals ;D |
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by runningdog on Oct 18, 2007 22:57:35 GMT 1, ยฃ100 is still pretty pricey for them I reckon, I might snap one up at ยฃ50, any offers?
ยฃ100 is still pretty pricey for them I reckon, I might snap one up at ยฃ50, any offers?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 23:02:31 GMT 1, and the worst print of the year award goes to Mantis 'everyone has their price'
and the worst print of the year award goes to Mantis 'everyone has their price'
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by paulypaul on Oct 18, 2007 23:41:10 GMT 1, Not being funny but what are you expecting?
Not expecting anything - just interesting that only 2 or 3 short months ago people were paying well over the odds for these and now they don't scrape cost. There's a lesson in there (he says stating the bleeding obvious...)
Not being funny but what are you expecting? Not expecting anything - just interesting that only 2 or 3 short months ago people were paying well over the odds for these and now they don't scrape cost. There's a lesson in there (he says stating the bleeding obvious...) |
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hendrix
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 48
๐๐ป 0
October 2007
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by carlito on Oct 19, 2007 11:24:43 GMT 1, well considering...no one ever particularly 'hyped' those A/P's to begin with
well considering...no one ever particularly 'hyped' those A/P's to begin with
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by absyrd on Oct 19, 2007 11:31:56 GMT 1, You don't hit rock bottom very hard if you never got up too high in the first place, eh?
You don't hit rock bottom very hard if you never got up too high in the first place, eh?
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damullae
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 235
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October 2006
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by damullae on Oct 19, 2007 11:32:21 GMT 1, has anyone got one of the mantis "everyone has a price" print? I woudl like to see a photo of actual print to see if it is as bad as on the web site
has anyone got one of the mantis "everyone has a price" print? I woudl like to see a photo of actual print to see if it is as bad as on the web site
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Mantis Print ๐ฌ๐ง Street Art โข Art For Sale, by manchestermike on Oct 19, 2007 11:37:31 GMT 1, well considering...no one ever particularly 'hyped' those A/P's to begin with
Indeedy
well considering...no one ever particularly 'hyped' those A/P's to begin with Indeedy |
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;D
