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5 Years Time, by numusic on Feb 21, 2007 22:50:45 GMT 1,
Read a great quote from the guy who bough the Banksy Bee canvas at Sotheby's the other week.. American dude with his wife.
Interviewer
"So, how do feel about Banksy's politics, he's not exactly known to be very pro American"
Buyer
"Oh, i didn't know about that", turns to wife for help..
Wife
" I just like the bee"
Buyer
" Yeah, we just like the bee"
arrrgghh !
Read a great quote from the guy who bough the Banksy Bee canvas at Sotheby's the other week.. American dude with his wife. Interviewer "So, how do feel about Banksy's politics, he's not exactly known to be very pro American" Buyer "Oh, i didn't know about that", turns to wife for help.. Wife " I just like the bee" Buyer " Yeah, we just like the bee" arrrgghh ! |
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5 Years Time, by Daniel Silk on Feb 21, 2007 23:11:43 GMT 1, This may have applied a few years ago, maybe even just a year ago when you could still browse what was left of banksys on POW and buy at your leisure. The demographic has shifted drastically in the past couple of years. It really is investment bankers buying up not only originals, but the prints too.. A good 90% if not more on this forum could never afford to fork out 5k for a print, let alone 35k. It's only very recently that this talk of "Art markets", "signed over unsigned" , the "economy", " contemporary art" "stocks, shares and auctions" entered these debates.That's cos only the little dealers came in waaaaayyy too late. We never gave a flying f*ck if it was signed, unsigned, boom or bust.. we just bought what we ciould afford signed or no.. Street art isn't tied to the "art market".. it's kinda like a downturn in the economy effects everything right.. record companies b**ching that they're not shifting as many units cos the economy has hit a downturn.. well, that doesn't apply to little indie's in it for the right reason... econmomy collapses and people still hiot up the streets and you can still track em down and ask em to do you a piece for 50 quid. That's how this thing started and it's probably how it'll go on, regardless of demographics, art markets, fine art, contemporary this and that.. The next thing is happening already, on the streets and in the clubs.. and it aint on POW and it ain't Dan Baldwin. It's probably not even called art, yet 
Respect! ;D
This may have applied a few years ago, maybe even just a year ago when you could still browse what was left of banksys on POW and buy at your leisure. The demographic has shifted drastically in the past couple of years. It really is investment bankers buying up not only originals, but the prints too.. A good 90% if not more on this forum could never afford to fork out 5k for a print, let alone 35k. It's only very recently that this talk of "Art markets", "signed over unsigned" , the "economy", " contemporary art" "stocks, shares and auctions" entered these debates.That's cos only the little dealers came in waaaaayyy too late. We never gave a flying f*ck if it was signed, unsigned, boom or bust.. we just bought what we ciould afford signed or no.. Street art isn't tied to the "art market".. it's kinda like a downturn in the economy effects everything right.. record companies b**ching that they're not shifting as many units cos the economy has hit a downturn.. well, that doesn't apply to little indie's in it for the right reason... econmomy collapses and people still hiot up the streets and you can still track em down and ask em to do you a piece for 50 quid. That's how this thing started and it's probably how it'll go on, regardless of demographics, art markets, fine art, contemporary this and that.. The next thing is happening already, on the streets and in the clubs.. and it aint on POW and it ain't Dan Baldwin. It's probably not even called art, yet Respect! ;D |
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Cocteau 101
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5 Years Time, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 22, 2007 1:39:46 GMT 1, Hey Guys thanks for all the lively debate. I wasn't sure where this would go when I started the thread but keep it going. To be honest I find myself shifting my position on this after every alternate post. But my view is there will always be a hardcore of original buyers who bought cheap cos they love the prints and now will not sell on principle, I only have to look at my vinyl collection to confirm. Secondly there will be mid termers who can't resist cashing in because of circumstances etc, then there are late comers trying to make a buck and throughout all of that newcomers who arrive at a point in time who like the art and will maybe cash in or keep. However, take away the hardcore who will keep regardless and if prices continue to rise how many others will then be trying to sell to make a profit or to capitalise on a gain if they feel fashion is changing, because if it does the real money will likely be in the originals as there are such a relatively large number of prints.
Despite starting this debate I have to say openly and honestly that I don't really care about the value as long as I can afford to but the things I really want at a value I can afford.
I've bought records for 50p and £150 but the point is I really wanted them and to be honest I don't want every print I can get my hands on.
Cheers
J
Hey Guys thanks for all the lively debate. I wasn't sure where this would go when I started the thread but keep it going. To be honest I find myself shifting my position on this after every alternate post. But my view is there will always be a hardcore of original buyers who bought cheap cos they love the prints and now will not sell on principle, I only have to look at my vinyl collection to confirm. Secondly there will be mid termers who can't resist cashing in because of circumstances etc, then there are late comers trying to make a buck and throughout all of that newcomers who arrive at a point in time who like the art and will maybe cash in or keep. However, take away the hardcore who will keep regardless and if prices continue to rise how many others will then be trying to sell to make a profit or to capitalise on a gain if they feel fashion is changing, because if it does the real money will likely be in the originals as there are such a relatively large number of prints.
Despite starting this debate I have to say openly and honestly that I don't really care about the value as long as I can afford to but the things I really want at a value I can afford.
I've bought records for 50p and £150 but the point is I really wanted them and to be honest I don't want every print I can get my hands on.
Cheers
J
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5 Years Time, by ricosg11 on Feb 22, 2007 1:56:47 GMT 1, agree with most but editioned prints have been worth 100's of thousands of dollars. There are definately not too many out there.
agree with most but editioned prints have been worth 100's of thousands of dollars. There are definately not too many out there.
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5 Years Time, by slowmo on Feb 22, 2007 10:54:53 GMT 1, This is an interesting debate. Prints are not an original concept, just look at William Hogarth. Hogarth a recognised 'Banksy' of his day, would look at the common person, detailing the rise and fall of a prostitute at the time was seen as very risque and he would paint seens of modern life at the time rarely seen anywhere else, such as gin Lane.
Hogarth refused to sell his originals, realising that he could reproduce his work in multiples along with many other artists of this time. Needless to say a lot of museums now proudly display his prints as works of art, many of Hogarths originals having been lost for ever. Prints are valuable commodities as they will often survive longer than originals.
I think this stands true of Banksy, at the moment many of his originals are sitting on the walls of people who may have children, smoke, spill wine etc etc. Over time many of these originals in one way or another will be destroyed. So prints have a place in documenting art. Look at the prints on ebay, some of them are put on in a sorry state, so its fair to say that if Banksy is now established alongside the likes of Warhol etc then his prints will become more valuable in the long run as more of the prints and originals are destroyed.
Or people could just go onto something new like Nuart says!
This is an interesting debate. Prints are not an original concept, just look at William Hogarth. Hogarth a recognised 'Banksy' of his day, would look at the common person, detailing the rise and fall of a prostitute at the time was seen as very risque and he would paint seens of modern life at the time rarely seen anywhere else, such as gin Lane.
Hogarth refused to sell his originals, realising that he could reproduce his work in multiples along with many other artists of this time. Needless to say a lot of museums now proudly display his prints as works of art, many of Hogarths originals having been lost for ever. Prints are valuable commodities as they will often survive longer than originals.
I think this stands true of Banksy, at the moment many of his originals are sitting on the walls of people who may have children, smoke, spill wine etc etc. Over time many of these originals in one way or another will be destroyed. So prints have a place in documenting art. Look at the prints on ebay, some of them are put on in a sorry state, so its fair to say that if Banksy is now established alongside the likes of Warhol etc then his prints will become more valuable in the long run as more of the prints and originals are destroyed.
Or people could just go onto something new like Nuart says!
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5 Years Time, by headphonesex on Feb 22, 2007 11:00:45 GMT 1, I've bought records for 50p and £150 but the point is I really wanted them and to be honest I don't want every print I can get my hands on. Cheers J
What did you pay £150 for?
I've bought records for 50p and £150 but the point is I really wanted them and to be honest I don't want every print I can get my hands on. Cheers J What did you pay £150 for? |
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stenz1
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5 Years Time, by stenz1 on Feb 22, 2007 15:45:22 GMT 1, Warhol or Jamie Reid?
I reckon depending on what he does in the next five years, they will retain their value, if not increase more, signed prints £10,000, unsigned £2,000.
Warhol or Jamie Reid?
I reckon depending on what he does in the next five years, they will retain their value, if not increase more, signed prints £10,000, unsigned £2,000.
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5 Years Time, by Daniel Silk on Dec 12, 2008 10:49:14 GMT 1, I think many people that have just started to buy art have been buying anything and everything, and it gets to a point when you just don't have the wall space to display it all. This is when they start to make the tough decisions about what pieces they really cant live without, and what they want to move on  I think we are still at a point that if you really want a Banksy picture they are relatively easy to get hold of on ebay for around £500  But I still think the numbers of people that have not found out about Banksy is massive, so the demand will keep rising over the next five years, and the number of pieces available will dwindle
Sounds about right 
I think many people that have just started to buy art have been buying anything and everything, and it gets to a point when you just don't have the wall space to display it all. This is when they start to make the tough decisions about what pieces they really cant live without, and what they want to move on I think we are still at a point that if you really want a Banksy picture they are relatively easy to get hold of on ebay for around £500 But I still think the numbers of people that have not found out about Banksy is massive, so the demand will keep rising over the next five years, and the number of pieces available will dwindle Sounds about right |
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5 Years Time, by Daniel Silk on Dec 12, 2008 11:00:23 GMT 1, I reckon Banksy prints will probably worth around the same and prints by people like eelus, insect, d*face, eine etc will probably worth half what they are now.  This is a classic! "prints by people like eelus, insect, d*face, eine etc will probably worth half what they are now" Im gonna remember this one and quote it back to you ;D
Worth a Bump ;D
I reckon Banksy prints will probably worth around the same and prints by people like eelus, insect, d*face, eine etc will probably worth half what they are now. This is a classic! "prints by people like eelus, insect, d*face, eine etc will probably worth half what they are now" Im gonna remember this one and quote it back to you ;D Worth a Bump ;D |
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Winter
Junior Member
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March 2007
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5 Years Time, by Winter on Dec 12, 2008 11:08:03 GMT 1, I think if Banksy continues to produce so many prints for years to come ones with the original signature could start to be seen as real early classics and could be worth slightly more. I think now is a very good time to pick up pieces like Grin Reaper and signed rats.
I think if Banksy continues to produce so many prints for years to come ones with the original signature could start to be seen as real early classics and could be worth slightly more. I think now is a very good time to pick up pieces like Grin Reaper and signed rats.
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5 Years Time, by Guest on Dec 12, 2008 11:08:19 GMT 1, some very knowledgeable post's
but the dface quote is very funny.
some very knowledgeable post's
but the dface quote is very funny.
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5 Years Time, by Existencil on Dec 12, 2008 11:21:42 GMT 1, I think this is a really interesting question, but it has been raised before. First of all, there are many more members on this forum than there were last year. I can't believe how many have popped up over the last month or so. It was manic last year, but this year is ridiculous. If this is anything to go by, then the interest in urban art is escalating. As Silky pointed out, there are probably many, many thousands who haven't discovered Banksy and will do in the next few years. With this in mind, it's safe to say rising demand will push up prices. Those artists who are associated with Banksy will probably be regarded in the same way that Picasso or Dali's peers were. They are part of the movement and play a fundamental role in it's history. Another important point is that we are in the middle of a credit crunch that we probably won't emerge from for 18 - 24 months. Once we come out, I pretty much gaurantee that prices will go through the roof. As I've said previously, now is a good time to identify the quality out there and buy it for your wall. Art is not currently a route to a quick buck, but it's definately a long term investment. It's also really nice to own something that so few others get the chance to. Finally, anybody who thinks prints are just special posters needs to do some reading. Anybody lucky enough to own an original Warhol, Dali or Rothko print will put you straight on that.
I think this is a really interesting question, but it has been raised before. First of all, there are many more members on this forum than there were last year. I can't believe how many have popped up over the last month or so. It was manic last year, but this year is ridiculous. If this is anything to go by, then the interest in urban art is escalating. As Silky pointed out, there are probably many, many thousands who haven't discovered Banksy and will do in the next few years. With this in mind, it's safe to say rising demand will push up prices. Those artists who are associated with Banksy will probably be regarded in the same way that Picasso or Dali's peers were. They are part of the movement and play a fundamental role in it's history. Another important point is that we are in the middle of a credit crunch that we probably won't emerge from for 18 - 24 months. Once we come out, I pretty much gaurantee that prices will go through the roof. As I've said previously, now is a good time to identify the quality out there and buy it for your wall. Art is not currently a route to a quick buck, but it's definately a long term investment. It's also really nice to own something that so few others get the chance to. Finally, anybody who thinks prints are just special posters needs to do some reading. Anybody lucky enough to own an original Warhol, Dali or Rothko print will put you straight on that.
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5 Years Time, by Guest on Dec 12, 2008 11:26:02 GMT 1, this thread was started in the first quarter of 2007
this thread was started in the first quarter of 2007
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5 Years Time, by Daniel Silk on Dec 12, 2008 11:27:59 GMT 1, Yeah, at the moment the Artists and Galleries just need to stay strong and weather the storm of the world economy problems Those that come out the other side well organized and positive, should be in a very good position ;D
Yeah, at the moment the Artists and Galleries just need to stay strong and weather the storm of the world economy problems Those that come out the other side well organized and positive, should be in a very good position ;D |
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5 Years Time, by onemandown72 on Dec 12, 2008 11:55:17 GMT 1, 5 years - Banksy, Parla, Neate, Shep, Faile.
Dolk & Hutch to be at same level they are now
As for other new artists, who knows what is in the pipe line. Look at how far Banksy has come in the last 5 years.
5 years - Banksy, Parla, Neate, Shep, Faile.
Dolk & Hutch to be at same level they are now
As for other new artists, who knows what is in the pipe line. Look at how far Banksy has come in the last 5 years.
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5 Years Time, by doublehelix on Dec 12, 2008 12:30:10 GMT 1, it's definately a long term investment.
To paraphrase Barbara Kruger:
"When I hear the word investment I take out my revolver".
it's definately a long term investment. To paraphrase Barbara Kruger: "When I hear the word investment I take out my revolver". |
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5 Years Time, by sixftjellybaby on Dec 12, 2008 12:39:58 GMT 1, totally agree chrisj spot on!! ;D
totally agree chrisj spot on!! ;D
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5 Years Time, by jamesreeve5 on Dec 13, 2008 1:13:28 GMT 1, Banksy has probably topped off and will hold steady in price, with the exception of the obama stuff (which will go up) Fairey releases too much stuff for its prices to rise at a very quick rate so it will be the same again adding or subtracting for inflation, McGee and Swoon will be around as usual with the slow, steady climb thanks to Deitch... everything else will be in attics next to people's comic book collections from the 90's.
Banksy has probably topped off and will hold steady in price, with the exception of the obama stuff (which will go up) Fairey releases too much stuff for its prices to rise at a very quick rate so it will be the same again adding or subtracting for inflation, McGee and Swoon will be around as usual with the slow, steady climb thanks to Deitch... everything else will be in attics next to people's comic book collections from the 90's.
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5 Years Time, by onemandown72 on Dec 13, 2008 1:20:44 GMT 1, Sorry I've just been shown some F*ck me shoes by a mate.
Art wise clearly Shep is out there. Banksy public work will still be important.
Christ, I'm getting on it. Art I love it COME ON
Sorry I've just been shown some F*ck me shoes by a mate.
Art wise clearly Shep is out there. Banksy public work will still be important.
Christ, I'm getting on it. Art I love it COME ON
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5 Years Time, by cashman on Dec 13, 2008 1:23:58 GMT 1, some very knowledgeable post's but the dface quote is very funny.
Its sad that most of the people that posted in this thread have left 
some very knowledgeable post's but the dface quote is very funny. Its sad that most of the people that posted in this thread have left |
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oneeye
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5 Years Time, by oneeye on Dec 13, 2008 3:16:15 GMT 1, Banksy in the UK is a phenomenon. However, here in the states, he is still relatively unknown. Crazy, but true. His work is smart, thought provoking and funny at the same time. The most wicked combination. He is a self made marketing machine. I might be biased, but I truly believe he's got what it takes to go all the way. I'm talking Murakami/Warhol status. If that happens, you're gonna see much bigger collectors getting in this little game of ours. It has already started, we know that.
I guess my point is, in my opinion Banksy will be stronger than ever in 5 years. And only the superstars of this "genre" will still be in demand: Micallef, Parla, Faile and Neate.
Banksy in the UK is a phenomenon. However, here in the states, he is still relatively unknown. Crazy, but true. His work is smart, thought provoking and funny at the same time. The most wicked combination. He is a self made marketing machine. I might be biased, but I truly believe he's got what it takes to go all the way. I'm talking Murakami/Warhol status. If that happens, you're gonna see much bigger collectors getting in this little game of ours. It has already started, we know that.
I guess my point is, in my opinion Banksy will be stronger than ever in 5 years. And only the superstars of this "genre" will still be in demand: Micallef, Parla, Faile and Neate.
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5 Years Time, by melmoth on Dec 13, 2008 3:32:30 GMT 1, some very knowledgeable post's but the dface quote is very funny. Its sad that most of the people that posted in this thread have left
some very knowledgeable post's but the dface quote is very funny. Its sad that most of the people that posted in this thread have left |
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sogr8ful
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5 Years Time, by sogr8ful on Dec 13, 2008 7:43:32 GMT 1, Not to be morbid but the real question (monetarily speaking at least) is how much will a signed Banksy be worth once he no longer/no longer is able to produce them.
Not the proper reason to buy/collect but in the long run for investors this is all that matters.
Not to be morbid but the real question (monetarily speaking at least) is how much will a signed Banksy be worth once he no longer/no longer is able to produce them.
Not the proper reason to buy/collect but in the long run for investors this is all that matters.
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5 Years Time, by jamesreeve5 on Dec 13, 2008 7:54:24 GMT 1, Not to be morbid but the real question (monetarily speaking at least) is how much will a signed Banksy be worth once he no longer/no longer is able to produce them. Not the proper reason to buy/collect but in the long run for investors this is all that matters.
Haha. I remember going into the gallery I was working at the day Rauschenberg died and we had 10 calls from people wanting to buy a piece of his... but then we also had 10 calls from people wanting to sell theirs as well. A "death" bump isn't as big a bump as you'd think.
Not to be morbid but the real question (monetarily speaking at least) is how much will a signed Banksy be worth once he no longer/no longer is able to produce them. Not the proper reason to buy/collect but in the long run for investors this is all that matters. Haha. I remember going into the gallery I was working at the day Rauschenberg died and we had 10 calls from people wanting to buy a piece of his... but then we also had 10 calls from people wanting to sell theirs as well. A "death" bump isn't as big a bump as you'd think. |
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sogr8ful
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5 Years Time, by sogr8ful on Dec 13, 2008 9:29:08 GMT 1, And just to clarify, I'm not into Banksy because I think I'll be able to to retire off my prints one day...I am into Banksy because I am moved by his art.
I guess the point I was trying to make was for people who asking 'what will Banksy mean in 5 years' a more important question would be what will Banksy mean in 30 years.
And just to clarify, I'm not into Banksy because I think I'll be able to to retire off my prints one day...I am into Banksy because I am moved by his art.
I guess the point I was trying to make was for people who asking 'what will Banksy mean in 5 years' a more important question would be what will Banksy mean in 30 years.
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wazandy
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5 Years Time, by wazandy on Dec 13, 2008 9:29:50 GMT 1, This is actually a very interesting thread..
To look at Banksy in five years time, you have to look at Banksy five years ago.
With a fantastic support team (and an incredible agent,) Banksy managed to get into the papers through well positioned pieces and one-off installations.
He became what we can only describe as a brand very quickly.
With the money he's made, and the anonymity he (sort of) enjoys, he's capable of incredible things.
Look at the Palestinian wall project - every major newspaper, CNN, BBC..
New York Times were straight into the petshop the moment it opened.
As he matures as an artist, we can expect to see more installations popping up in odd places - big news events and even bigger and better street pieces (this time, with full permission of the city in question.)
And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand.
So, in five years time, the credit crisis will be over, we'll be in work again, thousands and thousands of new admirers will have popped up, and those early unsigned prints that some like to pour scorn upon - mark my words, they'll be two-three times what they're worth now.
Of course, if you want to get rid of them....
This is actually a very interesting thread..
To look at Banksy in five years time, you have to look at Banksy five years ago.
With a fantastic support team (and an incredible agent,) Banksy managed to get into the papers through well positioned pieces and one-off installations.
He became what we can only describe as a brand very quickly.
With the money he's made, and the anonymity he (sort of) enjoys, he's capable of incredible things.
Look at the Palestinian wall project - every major newspaper, CNN, BBC..
New York Times were straight into the petshop the moment it opened.
As he matures as an artist, we can expect to see more installations popping up in odd places - big news events and even bigger and better street pieces (this time, with full permission of the city in question.)
And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand.
So, in five years time, the credit crisis will be over, we'll be in work again, thousands and thousands of new admirers will have popped up, and those early unsigned prints that some like to pour scorn upon - mark my words, they'll be two-three times what they're worth now.
Of course, if you want to get rid of them....
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5 Years Time, by jamesreeve5 on Dec 13, 2008 9:39:20 GMT 1, And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand.
If you believe this then I have some Warhol Cat and Shoe drawings I'd like to sell you!
And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand. If you believe this then I have some Warhol Cat and Shoe drawings I'd like to sell you! |
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Cocteau 101
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5 Years Time, by Cocteau 101 on Dec 13, 2008 9:45:19 GMT 1, And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand. If you believe this then I have some Warhol Cat and Shoe drawings I'd like to sell you!
James the difference here is that the early Banksy pieces are classic works that are quintessential Banksy pieces i.e. Laugh Now, works that started the phenomenem, the Warhols are an artist searching for a clear direction because he working in advertising. I get what you are saying but there is a difference.
As the original author of this post nearly two years ago I think the fact that the work has developed quite dramatically is a sign of longevity, the guys a maverick and staying a maverick is key.
And as more and more people 'discover' him, his early work will be in high demand. If you believe this then I have some Warhol Cat and Shoe drawings I'd like to sell you! James the difference here is that the early Banksy pieces are classic works that are quintessential Banksy pieces i.e. Laugh Now, works that started the phenomenem, the Warhols are an artist searching for a clear direction because he working in advertising. I get what you are saying but there is a difference. As the original author of this post nearly two years ago I think the fact that the work has developed quite dramatically is a sign of longevity, the guys a maverick and staying a maverick is key. |
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guest2
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5 Years Time, by guest2 on Dec 13, 2008 9:47:17 GMT 1, in 5 years time i think the the monkeys depicted on this mug will be in charge.
in 5 years time i think the the monkeys depicted on this mug will be in charge. |
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Cocteau 101
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5 Years Time, by Cocteau 101 on Dec 13, 2008 9:50:43 GMT 1, They already fuckin are
They already fuckin are
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But I still think the numbers of people that have not found out about Banksy is massive, so the demand will keep rising over the next five years, and the number of pieces available will dwindle 
This is a classic! 
