Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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Flipping MP's, by Heavyconsumer on May 14, 2009 14:51:18 GMT 1, Fry's a clever chap and I happen to agree with him to a degree and think drawing attention to his dinner jacket is a bit foolish - who gives a fuck what he's wearing at a BLACK TIE function anyway? Although Dynamixx is 100% correct in saying it's unethical for these people on very comfortable salaries to be taking the piss with expenses at our cost - Of course it's common sense. I think Fry's comments were perhaps an attempt to draw attention to the hypocricy involved in the witch-hunt that has resulted recently. Many of those crying for blood have done similar, not that this excuses anything of course.
Moley, you're absolutely spot on imo mate! Anyone ever played with a cat? You wave one hand in front of it and grab it with the other from behind - works everytime. In other words while everyone is worried about a few poxy million which in todays terms is insignificant at national level, elsewhere the media is neglecting serious international humanitarian issues, domestic crime-rates, deteriorating education system and health service and all round society becoming more of a sesspitt day after day. People getting too caught up in this pollava are no doubt forgetting MUCH more significant issues and government failings in the process imo. If it took this expenses issue for people to realise that we have domestic corruption at all levels, quite frankly I'm surprised at their naivity. This really is peanuts and much more worthy of brushing under the carpet than most issues imo. It simply shows the nature of our entire system, not anything shocking about the individuals within it imo.
Personally I don't believe there is such a thing as democracy at all, but that's a whole different discussion. Our entire political system is self-serving and not designed to assist progress in any way imo.
Fry's a clever chap and I happen to agree with him to a degree and think drawing attention to his dinner jacket is a bit foolish - who gives a fuck what he's wearing at a BLACK TIE function anyway? Although Dynamixx is 100% correct in saying it's unethical for these people on very comfortable salaries to be taking the piss with expenses at our cost - Of course it's common sense. I think Fry's comments were perhaps an attempt to draw attention to the hypocricy involved in the witch-hunt that has resulted recently. Many of those crying for blood have done similar, not that this excuses anything of course.
Moley, you're absolutely spot on imo mate! Anyone ever played with a cat? You wave one hand in front of it and grab it with the other from behind - works everytime. In other words while everyone is worried about a few poxy million which in todays terms is insignificant at national level, elsewhere the media is neglecting serious international humanitarian issues, domestic crime-rates, deteriorating education system and health service and all round society becoming more of a sesspitt day after day. People getting too caught up in this pollava are no doubt forgetting MUCH more significant issues and government failings in the process imo. If it took this expenses issue for people to realise that we have domestic corruption at all levels, quite frankly I'm surprised at their naivity. This really is peanuts and much more worthy of brushing under the carpet than most issues imo. It simply shows the nature of our entire system, not anything shocking about the individuals within it imo.
Personally I don't believe there is such a thing as democracy at all, but that's a whole different discussion. Our entire political system is self-serving and not designed to assist progress in any way imo.
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dynamixx
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Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 14, 2009 14:54:13 GMT 1, More outrage over a few hundred thousand where exactly? In the media. Anti-Iraq war in the medi was fairly low tbh, given how manuy of us marched against it. May 1st protests were fairly small, did you mean the G20 one? The coverage of that would have been over in 2/3 days had it not been for the beating of Ian Tomlinson and subsequent coverup by police.
The media have been covering the wrongs of Iraq for years now, although definitely a bit more quietly over the past 18 months or so, but if you think coverage of the war overall has been low, I'd love to know what paper you've been reading. Hopefully most of us know now a lot of bankers are cretins, and that much to do with the wars in the middle east was despicable.
The focus is on expenses now because it is new news, and is sending shockwaves accross the polical spectrum, so it needs covering.
True that you should always question everything you read.
More outrage over a few hundred thousand where exactly? In the media. Anti-Iraq war in the medi was fairly low tbh, given how manuy of us marched against it. May 1st protests were fairly small, did you mean the G20 one? The coverage of that would have been over in 2/3 days had it not been for the beating of Ian Tomlinson and subsequent coverup by police. The media have been covering the wrongs of Iraq for years now, although definitely a bit more quietly over the past 18 months or so, but if you think coverage of the war overall has been low, I'd love to know what paper you've been reading. Hopefully most of us know now a lot of bankers are cretins, and that much to do with the wars in the middle east was despicable. The focus is on expenses now because it is new news, and is sending shockwaves accross the polical spectrum, so it needs covering. True that you should always question everything you read.
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mattlan
New Member
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August 2008
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Flipping MP's, by mattlan on May 14, 2009 14:57:12 GMT 1, Voting changes Nothing I'll start voting when I can tick a box that says 'none of the above'
you can do that.
Voting changes Nothing I'll start voting when I can tick a box that says 'none of the above' you can do that.
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Flipping MP's, by Daniel Silk on May 14, 2009 14:57:52 GMT 1, I dont think they should get ANY money for second homes.
Give them all a travel card, and then build a travelodge style place in a government building near Westminster were all MP's can just turn up and stay when they need to. Sorted!
I dont think they should get ANY money for second homes. Give them all a travel card, and then build a travelodge style place in a government building near Westminster were all MP's can just turn up and stay when they need to. Sorted!
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dynamixx
New Member
Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 14, 2009 14:58:29 GMT 1, I'll agree to disagree with you on Fry heavyconsumer, the plummy tones and penguin suit irk when talking about political financial entitlement, but just to add this current story isn't being covered at the expense of any others in my eyes. It's just another symptom of the disease of government that needs addressing which incorporates war, the financial mess and various layers of corruption.
And at the end of the day, it's selling papers, whereas humanitarian crises sadly don't and the Telegraph alone have a lot to claw back from this.
I'll agree to disagree with you on Fry heavyconsumer, the plummy tones and penguin suit irk when talking about political financial entitlement, but just to add this current story isn't being covered at the expense of any others in my eyes. It's just another symptom of the disease of government that needs addressing which incorporates war, the financial mess and various layers of corruption.
And at the end of the day, it's selling papers, whereas humanitarian crises sadly don't and the Telegraph alone have a lot to claw back from this.
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Flipping MP's, by Daniel Silk on May 14, 2009 15:11:28 GMT 1, Give them all a travel card, and then build a travelodge style place in a government building near Westminster were all MP's can just turn up and stay when they need to. Sorted! +1 Maybe requistion some of the flats in one of the tower blocks near Elephant & Castle - walking distance of Westminster too
Yep! seems like a simple solution amazing really that they dint do something like this years ago.
Give them all a travel card, and then build a travelodge style place in a government building near Westminster were all MP's can just turn up and stay when they need to. Sorted! +1 Maybe requistion some of the flats in one of the tower blocks near Elephant & Castle - walking distance of Westminster too Yep! seems like a simple solution amazing really that they dint do something like this years ago.
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,141
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November 2007
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Flipping MP's, by Prescription Art on May 14, 2009 15:31:46 GMT 1, They'd never get any work done... they'd be pissing it up in the hotel bar & shagging each other.
They'd never get any work done... they'd be pissing it up in the hotel bar & shagging each other.
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,141
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November 2007
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Flipping MP's, by Prescription Art on May 14, 2009 15:37:51 GMT 1, Regarding the MP expenses thing...
First of all I find it slightly ironic that journalists of all people are going after MPs for fiddling expenses.
Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country.
Did anyone see this clip on the BBC site?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8045414.stm
A lunchtime newsreader who i've never heard of or seen before earns 50% more than an MP. And what does she have to do, read an autocue?
EDIT: Yeah, I tend to agree with Stephen Fry having just watched that clip.
I thought it was a kind of generally accepted & widely known thing that MPs use expenses to top up a relatively meagre basic salary (not meagre in terms of what you or I earn, but certainly compared to jobs in the city).
But Jacqui Smith is still a witch.
Regarding the MP expenses thing... First of all I find it slightly ironic that journalists of all people are going after MPs for fiddling expenses. Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country. Did anyone see this clip on the BBC site? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8045414.stmA lunchtime newsreader who i've never heard of or seen before earns 50% more than an MP. And what does she have to do, read an autocue? EDIT: Yeah, I tend to agree with Stephen Fry having just watched that clip. I thought it was a kind of generally accepted & widely known thing that MPs use expenses to top up a relatively meagre basic salary (not meagre in terms of what you or I earn, but certainly compared to jobs in the city). But Jacqui Smith is still a witch.
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dynamixx
New Member
Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 14, 2009 16:12:09 GMT 1, A mere ยฃ65,000 eh? How on earth do they cope. I think you'll find ministers, the ones with real power, earn significantly more than that. And even so, if they don't find their basic salary sufficient, they should have entered a different career path, instead of topping up their wages (already more than double the national average as a minimum by the way) with expense claims.
Again RE what journalists earn, they aren't paid out of our tax money, (not talking about the BBC / license fee here, as they didn't break the story) so who cares other than the papers employing them?
And if you're with Fry and think claiming all these expenses was justified, well reforms that will come through parliament over the coming weeks and months disagree with you. As do the vast majority of the electorate.
EDIT: Typo
A mere ยฃ65,000 eh? How on earth do they cope. I think you'll find ministers, the ones with real power, earn significantly more than that. And even so, if they don't find their basic salary sufficient, they should have entered a different career path, instead of topping up their wages (already more than double the national average as a minimum by the way) with expense claims.
Again RE what journalists earn, they aren't paid out of our tax money, (not talking about the BBC / license fee here, as they didn't break the story) so who cares other than the papers employing them?
And if you're with Fry and think claiming all these expenses was justified, well reforms that will come through parliament over the coming weeks and months disagree with you. As do the vast majority of the electorate.
EDIT: Typo
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brun
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Posts โข 879
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December 2007
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Flipping MP's, by brun on May 15, 2009 0:25:17 GMT 1,
yes that is a danger called BNP .......i doubt they would ever get in but they will get more votes : corrupt mps, unemployment + immigration all add up to a potential strong right wing .....
got to feel sorry for places like france and italy that are so corrupt the "parliament " changed the laws so berlusconi and chirac would not get jailed for theft of public funds ! !
yes that is a danger called BNP .......i doubt they would ever get in but they will get more votes : corrupt mps, unemployment + immigration all add up to a potential strong right wing ..... got to feel sorry for places like france and italy that are so corrupt the "parliament " changed the laws so berlusconi and chirac would not get jailed for theft of public funds ! !
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brun
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Posts โข 879
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December 2007
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Flipping MP's, by brun on May 15, 2009 0:27:42 GMT 1, Regarding the MP expenses thing... First of all I find it slightly ironic that journalists of all people are going after MPs for fiddling expenses. journos dont get paid by the taxpayer do they ?
Regarding the MP expenses thing... First of all I find it slightly ironic that journalists of all people are going after MPs for fiddling expenses. journos dont get paid by the taxpayer do they ?
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Flipping MP's, by Daniel Silk on May 15, 2009 14:07:04 GMT 1, Surely this must bring an Election?
Millions of people across the country are represented in Parliament by people that they see as near criminals If thats not a reason for an election, I don't know what is.
Surely this must bring an Election? Millions of people across the country are represented in Parliament by people that they see as near criminals If thats not a reason for an election, I don't know what is.
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,833
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March 2007
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Flipping MP's, by curiousgeorge on May 15, 2009 14:16:15 GMT 1, Silky for PM
Silky for PM
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Flipping MP's, by Daniel Silk on May 15, 2009 14:19:05 GMT 1, Silky for PM
No thank you!
;D
Silky for PM No thank you! ;D
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dynamixx
New Member
Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 15, 2009 14:23:19 GMT 1, Silky you're spot on, election is long over due now.
Still suprised to see one or two people in this thread defending the MPs actions?! There's a good chance some of them will be arrested under fraud charges...this isn't you putting a sandwich as a tax deductable under the expenses of your limited company, this is serious, borderline criminal behaviour.
Silky you're spot on, election is long over due now.
Still suprised to see one or two people in this thread defending the MPs actions?! There's a good chance some of them will be arrested under fraud charges...this isn't you putting a sandwich as a tax deductable under the expenses of your limited company, this is serious, borderline criminal behaviour.
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Flipping MP's, by wiz on May 15, 2009 14:31:29 GMT 1, True Dynamixx. Let me offer a scenario here, if say i sold a piece of Design a couple of years ago to a Tory Bigwig and he unknown to me put it through as an expense but has since had guilty feelings and paid up in full and disclaimed any expense claim but then some press toad found out and snitched, then would i be dragged into it?.
True Dynamixx. Let me offer a scenario here, if say i sold a piece of Design a couple of years ago to a Tory Bigwig and he unknown to me put it through as an expense but has since had guilty feelings and paid up in full and disclaimed any expense claim but then some press toad found out and snitched, then would i be dragged into it?.
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dynamixx
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Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 15, 2009 14:44:07 GMT 1, That's a very good question Wiz, full details of all expenses from all MPs haven't been revealed yet so not sure anyone can say with certainty yet, but keep your eyes peeled, a large-ish number of MPs will simply resign before having full details of the indescepancies uncovered, we're seeing that already.
In my opinion though, you as the design seller are safe as houses, it's the Tory that would be in hot water and would have to pay back costs (either voluntarily now or in a few lagging cases a forced situation a little further down the line). So just like the company that was offering the Tory who resigned yesterday a mortgage (for which he carried on claiming long after it was paid off) isn't liable for the fraud - in general, it's not the vendor's responsibility to be accountable for where payment came from.
That's a very good question Wiz, full details of all expenses from all MPs haven't been revealed yet so not sure anyone can say with certainty yet, but keep your eyes peeled, a large-ish number of MPs will simply resign before having full details of the indescepancies uncovered, we're seeing that already.
In my opinion though, you as the design seller are safe as houses, it's the Tory that would be in hot water and would have to pay back costs (either voluntarily now or in a few lagging cases a forced situation a little further down the line). So just like the company that was offering the Tory who resigned yesterday a mortgage (for which he carried on claiming long after it was paid off) isn't liable for the fraud - in general, it's not the vendor's responsibility to be accountable for where payment came from.
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Flipping MP's, by properganda on May 15, 2009 14:46:54 GMT 1,
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dynamixx
New Member
Posts โข 650
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August 2006
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Flipping MP's, by dynamixx on May 15, 2009 14:49:00 GMT 1, Best first post ever? I'm thinking so!
Best first post ever? I'm thinking so!
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Flipping MP's, by wiz on May 15, 2009 14:49:49 GMT 1, Cheers Dynamixx, im not saying of course that he did buy via a claim for it as an expense, indeed i would be very surprised if that turned out to be the case but i need to know im safe and seeing as there was no fiddlebobs on my part im sure i will be ok cheers.
LOL at properganda! Fell off zimmer here!, yes excellent first post there
Cheers Dynamixx, im not saying of course that he did buy via a claim for it as an expense, indeed i would be very surprised if that turned out to be the case but i need to know im safe and seeing as there was no fiddlebobs on my part im sure i will be ok cheers. LOL at properganda! Fell off zimmer here!, yes excellent first post there
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neale
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,585
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December 2008
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Flipping MP's, by neale on May 15, 2009 20:03:25 GMT 1, richy, hope you didnt post that from your work computer
richy, hope you didnt post that from your work computer
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retardthebear
New Member
Posts โข 305
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September 2006
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Flipping MP's, by retardthebear on May 16, 2009 10:33:48 GMT 1, Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country.
As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life.
Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country. As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life.
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eddiedangerous
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,600
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October 2007
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Flipping MP's, by eddiedangerous on May 17, 2009 13:48:30 GMT 1,
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Flipping MP's, by thegreatarchitect on May 17, 2009 15:31:55 GMT 1, look into how much money we waste especially tax payers money eg bankers bonuses and especially the eu. when you have done that you will realise that this is covering stuff up not informing you of some thing you didnt know word. ยฃ700 billion on Govt bailing out the banks. With our money. Defence (Wars) spending - ยฃยฃ billions. With our money and yet there's more outrage over a few hundred thousand here....
I quite agree with you plucker but you forget that this highlights the very nature of this government and MP's attitude in general towards filling their own pockets with our money its just another indicator that this country is being run by fifth formers who salivate at the mouth when filling out their expenses if they wish to cover something up there's the SWINE FLU pandemic
look into how much money we waste especially tax payers money eg bankers bonuses and especially the eu. when you have done that you will realise that this is covering stuff up not informing you of some thing you didnt know word. ยฃ700 billion on Govt bailing out the banks. With our money. Defence (Wars) spending - ยฃยฃ billions. With our money and yet there's more outrage over a few hundred thousand here.... I quite agree with you plucker but you forget that this highlights the very nature of this government and MP's attitude in general towards filling their own pockets with our money its just another indicator that this country is being run by fifth formers who salivate at the mouth when filling out their expenses if they wish to cover something up there's the SWINE FLU pandemic
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Flipping MP's, by Daniel Silk on May 19, 2009 14:02:28 GMT 1, Should the Speaker go?
I would think keeping him in would bring the election closer.
Should the Speaker go? I would think keeping him in would bring the election closer.
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BlightSociety
Art Gallery
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June 2008
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Flipping MP's, by BlightSociety on May 19, 2009 15:36:55 GMT 1, I think if they call an election now members of parliament including the speaker get a payoff of they resign. That was the impression I got from the today program anyway.
Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country. As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life. Iโve got no problem with how much MPโs get paid. After all if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What gets to me about this story is: 1. That MPโs made claims they new to be illegal both under the expenses rules and the law. 2. That some of these claims were allowed through by those in charge of reviewing them. Both are evidence of a corrupt system of government. Letโs use this media spotlight to push for independent regulation of government pay and expenses and that goes for civil servants too.
I think if they call an election now members of parliament including the speaker get a payoff of they resign. That was the impression I got from the today program anyway. Secondly I don't think that an MPs basic salary of ยฃ65,000 is all that much considering they are running the bloody country. As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life. Iโve got no problem with how much MPโs get paid. After all if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What gets to me about this story is: 1. That MPโs made claims they new to be illegal both under the expenses rules and the law. 2. That some of these claims were allowed through by those in charge of reviewing them. Both are evidence of a corrupt system of government. Letโs use this media spotlight to push for independent regulation of government pay and expenses and that goes for civil servants too.
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Flipping MP's, by thegreatarchitect on May 19, 2009 17:47:25 GMT 1, I think if they call an election now members of parliament including the speaker get a payoff of they resign. That was the impression I got from the today program anyway. As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life. Iโve got no problem with how much MPโs get paid. After all if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What gets to me about this story is: 1. That MPโs made claims they new to be illegal both under the expenses rules and the law. 2. That some of these claims were allowed through by those in charge of reviewing them. Both are evidence of a corrupt system of government. Letโs use this media spotlight to push for independent regulation of government pay and expenses and that goes for civil servants too.
There is independent regulators Their known as the fraud squad
I think if they call an election now members of parliament including the speaker get a payoff of they resign. That was the impression I got from the today program anyway. As servants of the people it is a job you have to want to be in. If they're in it for the money then you know you have the wrong people in charge. They also get another simialr salary on top from their constabulatory I believe. Unfortunately we're all humans and greedy little blighters so will always try and get every penny we're entitled to. Thats why I want to be a hamster in my next life. Iโve got no problem with how much MPโs get paid. After all if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. What gets to me about this story is: 1. That MPโs made claims they new to be illegal both under the expenses rules and the law. 2. That some of these claims were allowed through by those in charge of reviewing them. Both are evidence of a corrupt system of government. Letโs use this media spotlight to push for independent regulation of government pay and expenses and that goes for civil servants too. There is independent regulators Their known as the fraud squad
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Jimmy J
New Member
Posts โข 158
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December 2007
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Flipping MP's, by Jimmy J on May 19, 2009 19:51:16 GMT 1, Where's Guy Fawkes when we need him
Where's Guy Fawkes when we need him
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Flipping MP's, by wiz on May 19, 2009 19:55:59 GMT 1, Guy is currently relaxing on the Island of Mustique in his Jacuzzi, he was retired from his last job for claiming that the 30 odd barrels of gunpowder were for his own personal use as laxatives which were needed due to his bad diet of Pate de FG and Pimms.
Guy is currently relaxing on the Island of Mustique in his Jacuzzi, he was retired from his last job for claiming that the 30 odd barrels of gunpowder were for his own personal use as laxatives which were needed due to his bad diet of Pate de FG and Pimms.
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Flipping MP's, by thegreatarchitect on May 20, 2009 12:40:32 GMT 1, Guy is currently relaxing on the Island of Mustique in his Jacuzzi, he was retired from his last job for claiming that the 30 odd barrels of gunpowder were for his own personal use as laxatives which were needed due to his bad diet of Pate de FG and Pimms.
Would be ironic if he claimed the barrels(36) on his expenses
Guy is currently relaxing on the Island of Mustique in his Jacuzzi, he was retired from his last job for claiming that the 30 odd barrels of gunpowder were for his own personal use as laxatives which were needed due to his bad diet of Pate de FG and Pimms. Would be ironic if he claimed the barrels(36) on his expenses
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