Yessir
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 28, 2007 21:41:50 GMT 1, I have £700 as bate, i'm trying to catch a Mantis AP Ineed on FT newspaper.
I have £700 as bate, i'm trying to catch a Mantis AP Ineed on FT newspaper.
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Strange Al
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October 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Strange Al on Apr 29, 2007 10:17:57 GMT 1, I completely understand your desire to own one of these pieces. The Mantis Ineed's hand-stenciled on the FT are an incredibly powerful work. Simple and arresting! Good luck in your search - though, it may be a long one.
Here's a question for the forum, how much money can works like Mantis's Ineed and Beejoir's LV Child change hands for before the messages of these works lose all of their power? There's a bitter irony in these works changing hands for hundreds of £s in the secondary market. The Ineed's are now selling for considerably more than an Ipod and an LV Child will cost you more than an LV bag. Here's my idea for the next image in the series, a starving african child wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints.
Don't get me wrong, the LV Child and Ineed are two of my absolute favourite images of the last year. And I have no doubt that in the current market they're worth the money they're changing hands for. Though, there is something perverse about this fact.
I completely understand your desire to own one of these pieces. The Mantis Ineed's hand-stenciled on the FT are an incredibly powerful work. Simple and arresting! Good luck in your search - though, it may be a long one.
Here's a question for the forum, how much money can works like Mantis's Ineed and Beejoir's LV Child change hands for before the messages of these works lose all of their power? There's a bitter irony in these works changing hands for hundreds of £s in the secondary market. The Ineed's are now selling for considerably more than an Ipod and an LV Child will cost you more than an LV bag. Here's my idea for the next image in the series, a starving african child wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints.
Don't get me wrong, the LV Child and Ineed are two of my absolute favourite images of the last year. And I have no doubt that in the current market they're worth the money they're changing hands for. Though, there is something perverse about this fact.
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by numusic on Apr 29, 2007 10:25:30 GMT 1, I have a LOT of respect for the artists and the work, but could never have the prints.. I can't get my head around the idea that these have become objects of desire and are now hanging in nice dining rooms next to well stocked fridges. I find it all a tad sickening... The irony of this thread title is mind boggling. That'd feed the kid for a couple of years !
I have a LOT of respect for the artists and the work, but could never have the prints.. I can't get my head around the idea that these have become objects of desire and are now hanging in nice dining rooms next to well stocked fridges. I find it all a tad sickening... The irony of this thread title is mind boggling. That'd feed the kid for a couple of years !
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Rude Copper
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Rude Copper on Apr 29, 2007 10:55:08 GMT 1, has anyone got a photo of the ft ineed?, it sounds really interesing, i did'nt really like ineed as a print, it was a bit too obvious, in the way that lv child was'nt. everyone who has seen my copy, notice's the vuitton logoing 1st, then the african child 2nd, which is a kind of dig to their priority's. its a strong, classic, beautiful piece of street art, & if it had 'banksy' written in the corner, instead of beejoir' then it would be changing hands for 5k+
has anyone got a photo of the ft ineed?, it sounds really interesing, i did'nt really like ineed as a print, it was a bit too obvious, in the way that lv child was'nt. everyone who has seen my copy, notice's the vuitton logoing 1st, then the african child 2nd, which is a kind of dig to their priority's. its a strong, classic, beautiful piece of street art, & if it had 'banksy' written in the corner, instead of beejoir' then it would be changing hands for 5k+
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Yessir
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 11:03:09 GMT 1, The truth of the matter is Ineed is the most brutally honest piece of artwork that I have ever seen. Its thought provoking, harsh and transmits a message to me about the irrelevant excesses in my life, so for that reason I fully connect with it.
IMO this is what art should be about....
The truth of the matter is Ineed is the most brutally honest piece of artwork that I have ever seen. Its thought provoking, harsh and transmits a message to me about the irrelevant excesses in my life, so for that reason I fully connect with it.
IMO this is what art should be about....
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Yessir
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 11:22:21 GMT 1, Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print...
Check link its about half way down the page.
Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print... Check link its about half way down the page.
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Yessir
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 11:23:51 GMT 1, Check second link, the first one is blank.
Check second link, the first one is blank.
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motor
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December 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by motor on Apr 29, 2007 11:51:40 GMT 1, has anyone got a photo of the ft ineed?, it sounds really interesing, i did'nt really like ineed as a print, it was a bit too obvious, in the way that lv child was'nt. everyone who has seen my copy, notice's the vuitton logoing 1st, then the african child 2nd, which is a kind of dig to their priority's. its a strong, classic, beautiful piece of street art, & if it had 'banksy' written in the corner, instead of beejoir' then it would be changing hands for 5k+ Agree with you Rudecopper. I also think that Beejoir's pieces are beautifull but they also hold strong message which is punchy enough to leave a mark on my soul I feel the same about the Ineed piece-which at first was IMO too easy and comercial but the it's growing on me more and more. And yes I do have Ineed...in special colorway ;D
has anyone got a photo of the ft ineed?, it sounds really interesing, i did'nt really like ineed as a print, it was a bit too obvious, in the way that lv child was'nt. everyone who has seen my copy, notice's the vuitton logoing 1st, then the african child 2nd, which is a kind of dig to their priority's. its a strong, classic, beautiful piece of street art, & if it had 'banksy' written in the corner, instead of beejoir' then it would be changing hands for 5k+ Agree with you Rudecopper. I also think that Beejoir's pieces are beautifull but they also hold strong message which is punchy enough to leave a mark on my soul I feel the same about the Ineed piece-which at first was IMO too easy and comercial but the it's growing on me more and more. And yes I do have Ineed...in special colorway ;D
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dkla
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February 2007
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by dkla on Apr 29, 2007 13:29:12 GMT 1, Respect to you, Nu
Respect to you, Nu
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Yessir
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 13:40:02 GMT 1, What are you saying nuart?
I'm wrong for badly wanting this print and offering £700 for it.
Would it be equally ironic, if I offered £7 for this print, as a sign that "I UNDERSTAND", the hardships of the children represented by this print.
What are you saying nuart?
I'm wrong for badly wanting this print and offering £700 for it.
Would it be equally ironic, if I offered £7 for this print, as a sign that "I UNDERSTAND", the hardships of the children represented by this print.
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motor
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by motor on Apr 29, 2007 14:13:41 GMT 1, I Here's a question for the forum, how much money can works like Mantis's Ineed and Beejoir's LV Child change hands for before the messages of these works lose all of their power? There's a bitter irony in these works changing hands for hundreds of £s in the secondary market. The Ineed's are now selling for considerably more than an Ipod and an LV Child will cost you more than an LV bag. Here's my idea for the next image in the series, a starving african child wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints. Don't get me wrong, the LV Child and Ineed are two of my absolute favourite images of the last year. And I have no doubt that in the current market they're worth the money they're changing hands for. Though, there is something perverse about this fact.
The same could be said about Banksy's work as well and it has been discussed here before-irony, contradiction etc... I think it is a viscous circle and nothing wrong in discussing it again by all means... Anyway the one thing I want to mention is that as far as I'm concerned Mr B as well as people around SOS have done quite a lot for the charity already...And if nothing more IMO that is more than most of other artist with substantially more expensive artwork ever did for anyone but themselves but because not controversial no one really cares... As for me if I'm ever gonna sell mine piece I would definitely give few percent of the sale to the charity as well
I Here's a question for the forum, how much money can works like Mantis's Ineed and Beejoir's LV Child change hands for before the messages of these works lose all of their power? There's a bitter irony in these works changing hands for hundreds of £s in the secondary market. The Ineed's are now selling for considerably more than an Ipod and an LV Child will cost you more than an LV bag. Here's my idea for the next image in the series, a starving african child wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints. Don't get me wrong, the LV Child and Ineed are two of my absolute favourite images of the last year. And I have no doubt that in the current market they're worth the money they're changing hands for. Though, there is something perverse about this fact. The same could be said about Banksy's work as well and it has been discussed here before-irony, contradiction etc... I think it is a viscous circle and nothing wrong in discussing it again by all means... Anyway the one thing I want to mention is that as far as I'm concerned Mr B as well as people around SOS have done quite a lot for the charity already...And if nothing more IMO that is more than most of other artist with substantially more expensive artwork ever did for anyone but themselves but because not controversial no one really cares... As for me if I'm ever gonna sell mine piece I would definitely give few percent of the sale to the charity as well
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by numusic on Apr 29, 2007 17:05:41 GMT 1, What are you saying nuart? I'm wrong for badly wanting this print and offering £700 for it. Would it be equally ironic, if I offered £7 for this print, as a sign that "I UNDERSTAND", the hardships of the children represented by this print.
Wasn't intended as a personal slight, but i can see it can be easily taken that way. I just think some of these very hard hitting street pieces that deal with how the ravages of capitalism destroy and prevent 3rd world economies getting on their feet shouldn't really be turned into 1k objects of desire. The money in our pockets is part responsible for the reality of some of these images. Which is why these pieces are stunningly good in a high street context, but maybe not so suitable when turned into ltd edition prints on velvet like paper with deckled edges.
I have no issue with people buying them, who am I to say what you do with your hard earned cash..but for me, conceptually, it sucks.
What are you saying nuart? I'm wrong for badly wanting this print and offering £700 for it. Would it be equally ironic, if I offered £7 for this print, as a sign that "I UNDERSTAND", the hardships of the children represented by this print. Wasn't intended as a personal slight, but i can see it can be easily taken that way. I just think some of these very hard hitting street pieces that deal with how the ravages of capitalism destroy and prevent 3rd world economies getting on their feet shouldn't really be turned into 1k objects of desire. The money in our pockets is part responsible for the reality of some of these images. Which is why these pieces are stunningly good in a high street context, but maybe not so suitable when turned into ltd edition prints on velvet like paper with deckled edges. I have no issue with people buying them, who am I to say what you do with your hard earned cash..but for me, conceptually, it sucks.
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by teatwosugars on Apr 29, 2007 17:13:07 GMT 1, I've really enjoyed reading this thread, especially as I've recently purchased the LV child, and can fully understand everyone's opinions.
For me personally, I think comparing the print to buying a Luis Vuitton bag is a difficult issue. I can see that they are both objects of desire, but the reasons for owning them should come into play. I believe someone buys an LV bag to say, "look at how much money I've got." I certainly didn't do this with the print. I bought it as a discussion piece, as a reminder to other people and myself of the things we sometimes forget about, and also as a two fingers to those people who think that owning designer clothes is the most important thing in life! I will never tell friends how much I paid for it- to them it could be from some local poster shop (ignorance)!! For these reasons I think it can be justified (though I know others may not agree). Also, it has also not affected the money I have or will be donating to charity this year.
Oh btw, I haven't posted a lot so a big hello to everyone. I'm loving this forum
I've really enjoyed reading this thread, especially as I've recently purchased the LV child, and can fully understand everyone's opinions. For me personally, I think comparing the print to buying a Luis Vuitton bag is a difficult issue. I can see that they are both objects of desire, but the reasons for owning them should come into play. I believe someone buys an LV bag to say, "look at how much money I've got." I certainly didn't do this with the print. I bought it as a discussion piece, as a reminder to other people and myself of the things we sometimes forget about, and also as a two fingers to those people who think that owning designer clothes is the most important thing in life! I will never tell friends how much I paid for it- to them it could be from some local poster shop (ignorance)!! For these reasons I think it can be justified (though I know others may not agree). Also, it has also not affected the money I have or will be donating to charity this year. Oh btw, I haven't posted a lot so a big hello to everyone. I'm loving this forum
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by numusic on Apr 29, 2007 17:29:57 GMT 1, I've really enjoyed reading this thread, especially as I've recently purchased the LV child, and can fully understand everyone's opinions. For me personally, I think comparing the print to buying a Luis Vuitton bag is a difficult issue. I can see that they are both objects of desire, but the reasons for owning them should come into play. I believe someone buys an LV bag to say, "look at how much money I've got." I certainly didn't do this with the print. I bought it as a discussion piece, as a reminder to other people and myself of the things we sometimes forget about, and also as a two fingers to those people who think that owning designer clothes is the most important thing in life! I will never tell friends how much I paid for it- to them it could be from some local poster shop (ignorance)!! For these reasons I think it can be justified (though I know others may not agree). Also, it has also not affected the money I have or will be donating to charity this year. Oh btw, I haven't posted a lot so a big hello to everyone. I'm loving this forum
Yeah, it's a good debate.. complex issue and no one answer. I don't doubt for a minute that most people buy these for the right reasons, I doubt most people bought Rude Copper cos they liked the police.. then again, I doubt it's a bunch of anarcho leftists buying it these days
Maybe it's cool that people buy these images for the reasons you state, but maybe not so cool to trade in them for hundreds of quid, out of all the work we buy, trade and collect, maybe these are the ones that should be made unlimited in some form or other, by making them limited and sought after, conceptually, its no different to the LV handbag.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread, especially as I've recently purchased the LV child, and can fully understand everyone's opinions. For me personally, I think comparing the print to buying a Luis Vuitton bag is a difficult issue. I can see that they are both objects of desire, but the reasons for owning them should come into play. I believe someone buys an LV bag to say, "look at how much money I've got." I certainly didn't do this with the print. I bought it as a discussion piece, as a reminder to other people and myself of the things we sometimes forget about, and also as a two fingers to those people who think that owning designer clothes is the most important thing in life! I will never tell friends how much I paid for it- to them it could be from some local poster shop (ignorance)!! For these reasons I think it can be justified (though I know others may not agree). Also, it has also not affected the money I have or will be donating to charity this year. Oh btw, I haven't posted a lot so a big hello to everyone. I'm loving this forum Yeah, it's a good debate.. complex issue and no one answer. I don't doubt for a minute that most people buy these for the right reasons, I doubt most people bought Rude Copper cos they liked the police.. then again, I doubt it's a bunch of anarcho leftists buying it these days Maybe it's cool that people buy these images for the reasons you state, but maybe not so cool to trade in them for hundreds of quid, out of all the work we buy, trade and collect, maybe these are the ones that should be made unlimited in some form or other, by making them limited and sought after, conceptually, its no different to the LV handbag.
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Yessir
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 17:56:42 GMT 1, Nuart my friend... you speak as if you are the "gatekeeper" of acceptable art.
I believe that the message that the Ineed print projects, whether its on my wall at home, or on the streets of London is the SAME.
How can the message be lost because I'm prepared to pay "hundreds", for it?
nuart please answer this question
Banksy does a piece on a wall in London, you see it, Banksy then releases that same piece you've seen on the wall as a print run, you purchase one for lets say £600, are you now saying to me that the message has been lost because you've paid for a copy of the Banksy print, that you saw on a wall???
Nuart my friend... you speak as if you are the "gatekeeper" of acceptable art.
I believe that the message that the Ineed print projects, whether its on my wall at home, or on the streets of London is the SAME.
How can the message be lost because I'm prepared to pay "hundreds", for it?
nuart please answer this question
Banksy does a piece on a wall in London, you see it, Banksy then releases that same piece you've seen on the wall as a print run, you purchase one for lets say £600, are you now saying to me that the message has been lost because you've paid for a copy of the Banksy print, that you saw on a wall???
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by numusic on Apr 29, 2007 18:50:17 GMT 1, Nuart my friend... you speak as if you are the "gatekeeper" of acceptable art. I believe that the message that the Ineed print projects, whether its on my wall at home, or on the streets of London is the SAME. How can the message be lost because I'm prepared to pay "hundreds", for it? nuart please answer this question Banksy does a piece on a wall in London, you see it, Banksy then releases that same piece you've seen on the wall as a print run, you purchase one for lets say £600, are you now saying to me that the message has been lost because you've paid for a copy of the Banksy print, that you saw on a wall???
Gatekeeper.. lol.. I like it !.. I think your example is completely different. The LV and Ipod based work, plays off of our desire to own exclusive limited sought after products when 50% of the world are living in abject poverty. The work screams at passers by to get some perspective !.. by making it a limited edition print, it recontexualises the work and turns into the exact same thing that it's supposedly against, an expensive object of desire. You can have a go at me all you like but there's no argument here, that's what it does, it's a fact, end of.
And hey, it's not personal, but if it winds people up, then that's fine too.
Nuart my friend... you speak as if you are the "gatekeeper" of acceptable art. I believe that the message that the Ineed print projects, whether its on my wall at home, or on the streets of London is the SAME. How can the message be lost because I'm prepared to pay "hundreds", for it? nuart please answer this question Banksy does a piece on a wall in London, you see it, Banksy then releases that same piece you've seen on the wall as a print run, you purchase one for lets say £600, are you now saying to me that the message has been lost because you've paid for a copy of the Banksy print, that you saw on a wall??? Gatekeeper.. lol.. I like it !.. I think your example is completely different. The LV and Ipod based work, plays off of our desire to own exclusive limited sought after products when 50% of the world are living in abject poverty. The work screams at passers by to get some perspective !.. by making it a limited edition print, it recontexualises the work and turns into the exact same thing that it's supposedly against, an expensive object of desire. You can have a go at me all you like but there's no argument here, that's what it does, it's a fact, end of. And hey, it's not personal, but if it winds people up, then that's fine too.
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Yessir
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 19:14:08 GMT 1, I will put a direct question to you and or anyone else in this forum and lets see if I can get a direct answer.
Does a print like Ineed or LV Child "lose", its projected message, if someone sees it on the streets of London, relates to and understands its message and decides to buy it for their home as a powerful reminded of the negative things that are going on in this world?
I will put a direct question to you and or anyone else in this forum and lets see if I can get a direct answer.
Does a print like Ineed or LV Child "lose", its projected message, if someone sees it on the streets of London, relates to and understands its message and decides to buy it for their home as a powerful reminded of the negative things that are going on in this world?
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by numusic on Apr 29, 2007 19:24:51 GMT 1, I will put a direct question to you and or anyone else in this forum and lets see if I can get a direct answer. Does a print like Ineed or LV Child "lose", its projected message, if someone sees it on the streets of London, relates to and understands its message and decides to buy it for their home as a powerful reminded of the negative things that are going on in this world?
No, it probably doesn't. At least not for the person who bought it with those reasons in mind, but maybe for everyone else who sees it it wouldnt carry the same message.
I will put a direct question to you and or anyone else in this forum and lets see if I can get a direct answer. Does a print like Ineed or LV Child "lose", its projected message, if someone sees it on the streets of London, relates to and understands its message and decides to buy it for their home as a powerful reminded of the negative things that are going on in this world? No, it probably doesn't. At least not for the person who bought it with those reasons in mind, but maybe for everyone else who sees it it wouldnt carry the same message.
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Yessir
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November 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Yessir on Apr 29, 2007 19:37:34 GMT 1, Thanks good debate nuart I'll take all your points on board.
i think this is just a case of "a coin has two sides to it".
I've now a sorted deal for that Ineed print.
Thank you all, who participated in this very relevant debate...
Thanks good debate nuart I'll take all your points on board. i think this is just a case of "a coin has two sides to it". I've now a sorted deal for that Ineed print. Thank you all, who participated in this very relevant debate...
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Strange Al
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October 2006
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£700 as bate 4 Mantis Ineed AP FT newspaper print, by Strange Al on Apr 30, 2007 18:59:06 GMT 1, I think we’re all pretty much in agreement that both Mantis’ Ineed and Beejoir’s LV Child are powerful street pieces, which are well executed, thought provoking and convey messages we can and should connect with.
I think we also all agree that in the current market, which is crazy, these pieces are “worth” the large sums of money that are being paid for them. After all, it’s the market that determines the monetary value of a piece of art.
IMO it’s also easy to justify the first sale of these works by SOS and the respective artists, given the low prices SOS charged and the fact that they donated a large proportion of the profits to charity. I bought both prints from SOS and both have a place on my walls. And as others have said, they’re often the pieces that generate most discussion when friends come round.
I agree with Nu that taking the images from the street and putting them in a home filled with unnecessary material belongings recontextualises them. Though rather than robbing these particular images of their power, I actually think the new context almost adds to it. Every time you look at them they force you to reflect on the “irrelevant excesses in your life” and question your wants and needs. I like the fact people come into my house and point out the paradox in the images hanging there. It forces me to question my own beliefs and values and makes me more inclined to change my behaviour.
Though I do think the act of having this image on the wall is separate from the act of spending hundreds of pounds to have the image on the wall. As Nu has said, conceptually there is simply no difference between spending £1000 on a piece of art or a £1000 on a LV bag. Both are wants and not needs. In fact, it’s almost easier to justify the expense of the bag – at least it’s a utilitarian object (albeit an overpriced one).
Perhaps my original question should not have been how much can you spend on these images before they lose their power, but rather how much can you spend on these images before you lose your connection with them? It’s a question I’ve been battling with, because I too want an I Need on the FT and LV Child Canvas. But do “I Need” them? No!
According to Oxfam’s website, £1000 would feed an orphaned child in Malawi for over 10 years. Or could put that same child through school, thereby giving him the education he needs to support himself for life. Where’s my money better spent? It's a no brainer, but stupidly I'm still struggling with this question.
Meanwhile – I’m working on my image of an African child chewing on a pile of poster tubes, wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints.
I think we’re all pretty much in agreement that both Mantis’ Ineed and Beejoir’s LV Child are powerful street pieces, which are well executed, thought provoking and convey messages we can and should connect with. I think we also all agree that in the current market, which is crazy, these pieces are “worth” the large sums of money that are being paid for them. After all, it’s the market that determines the monetary value of a piece of art. IMO it’s also easy to justify the first sale of these works by SOS and the respective artists, given the low prices SOS charged and the fact that they donated a large proportion of the profits to charity. I bought both prints from SOS and both have a place on my walls. And as others have said, they’re often the pieces that generate most discussion when friends come round. I agree with Nu that taking the images from the street and putting them in a home filled with unnecessary material belongings recontextualises them. Though rather than robbing these particular images of their power, I actually think the new context almost adds to it. Every time you look at them they force you to reflect on the “irrelevant excesses in your life” and question your wants and needs. I like the fact people come into my house and point out the paradox in the images hanging there. It forces me to question my own beliefs and values and makes me more inclined to change my behaviour. Though I do think the act of having this image on the wall is separate from the act of spending hundreds of pounds to have the image on the wall. As Nu has said, conceptually there is simply no difference between spending £1000 on a piece of art or a £1000 on a LV bag. Both are wants and not needs. In fact, it’s almost easier to justify the expense of the bag – at least it’s a utilitarian object (albeit an overpriced one). Perhaps my original question should not have been how much can you spend on these images before they lose their power, but rather how much can you spend on these images before you lose your connection with them? It’s a question I’ve been battling with, because I too want an I Need on the FT and LV Child Canvas. But do “I Need” them? No! According to Oxfam’s website, £1000 would feed an orphaned child in Malawi for over 10 years. Or could put that same child through school, thereby giving him the education he needs to support himself for life. Where’s my money better spent? It's a no brainer, but stupidly I'm still struggling with this question. Meanwhile – I’m working on my image of an African child chewing on a pile of poster tubes, wrapped in a blanket of limited edition prints.
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