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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Jul 24, 2010 9:49:37 GMT 1, Totally agree with snaysages.
1) Buying from a gallery doesn't give you more authenticity than from someone else
2) Buying from a major gallery would cost you way more than the "official" price
example : www.martinlawrence.net/auction_09/0909_auctions/0909_auction_lists/_warhol_list.html
Take one of the soup can : gallery pricing $58,500
auction house price (without buyer's premium) : $11,000 (1 month ago) [ on average between $10k and 15K]
So why paying 5 times more if you can grab it from someone. Everyon is happy you don't have to pay buyer's premium the seller doesn't have to pay seller's premium.
Because basically what you're saying is that if you have an important warhol and if you want to sell it you only have 2 choices consign it or sell it to an art gallery....
Totally agree with snaysages. 1) Buying from a gallery doesn't give you more authenticity than from someone else 2) Buying from a major gallery would cost you way more than the "official" price example : www.martinlawrence.net/auction_09/0909_auctions/0909_auction_lists/_warhol_list.html Take one of the soup can : gallery pricing $58,500 auction house price (without buyer's premium) : $11,000 (1 month ago) [ on average between $10k and 15K] So why paying 5 times more if you can grab it from someone. Everyon is happy you don't have to pay buyer's premium the seller doesn't have to pay seller's premium. Because basically what you're saying is that if you have an important warhol and if you want to sell it you only have 2 choices consign it or sell it to an art gallery.... |
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Wearology
Junior Member
Staff at FatFreeArt
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Wearology on Jul 24, 2010 11:14:44 GMT 1, I feel I did not convey my message properly in my last post - so I will try this again. It is my personal opinion that all people including myself should be careful when contemplating buying a Warhol - because there seems to be many fakes out there. It doesn't matter if you plan to buy a Warhol from a gallery , the secondary market , EBAY , expresso beans , banksy.info or the foundation just be aware of current market conditions and be very careful.
His work , his signature and supporting paperwork for that time period is very easy to duplicate. I was just trying to help a fellow forum member in my last and this post before they buy a fagazy - that was my only intention. It does not serve anyone's purpose if the market gets flooded with fake art -
I feel I did not convey my message properly in my last post - so I will try this again. It is my personal opinion that all people including myself should be careful when contemplating buying a Warhol - because there seems to be many fakes out there. It doesn't matter if you plan to buy a Warhol from a gallery , the secondary market , EBAY , expresso beans , banksy.info or the foundation just be aware of current market conditions and be very careful.
His work , his signature and supporting paperwork for that time period is very easy to duplicate. I was just trying to help a fellow forum member in my last and this post before they buy a fagazy - that was my only intention. It does not serve anyone's purpose if the market gets flooded with fake art -
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Jul 24, 2010 11:34:21 GMT 1, Yep totally agreed on this!
As I said again, if anyone of view guys is interested in Warhol (don't buy from a guy whose username is multiple business on the bay. Don't have straight proof but as I explained in PM's to Mike) with some contacts I have that deals in Warhol's work.. we are quite sure that most of his stuff is fake... Because I know he has one listed for ยฃ3K on ebay).
Yep totally agreed on this!
As I said again, if anyone of view guys is interested in Warhol (don't buy from a guy whose username is multiple business on the bay. Don't have straight proof but as I explained in PM's to Mike) with some contacts I have that deals in Warhol's work.. we are quite sure that most of his stuff is fake... Because I know he has one listed for ยฃ3K on ebay).
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folex618
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by folex618 on Jul 25, 2010 3:49:12 GMT 1, If you are looking on ebay DO NOT buy from Kurstak (username: multiple-business). His items are faaaaaaaake.
If you are looking on ebay DO NOT buy from Kurstak (username: multiple-business). His items are faaaaaaaake.
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mmmike
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by mmmike on Jul 25, 2010 4:17:41 GMT 1, If you are looking on ebay DO NOT buy from Kurstak (username: multiple-business). His items are faaaaaaaake.
Thanks. That seems to be the consensus here. I did see that listing and emailed him. When looking at his other items on ebay and past sales it seemed a little off. Other members here have expressed similar thoughts. I replied back and said I would pass. I am still very interested in the print and would love to pick one up some day.
If you are looking on ebay DO NOT buy from Kurstak (username: multiple-business). His items are faaaaaaaake. Thanks. That seems to be the consensus here. I did see that listing and emailed him. When looking at his other items on ebay and past sales it seemed a little off. Other members here have expressed similar thoughts. I replied back and said I would pass. I am still very interested in the print and would love to pick one up some day. |
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popmozz
New Member
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by popmozz on Jul 26, 2010 10:55:29 GMT 1, Any final offers before it goes on the bay?
Would let it go for 1.999,- GBPincluding frame and postage within Europe, Globally plus 125 pounds.
Any final offers before it goes on the bay?
Would let it go for 1.999,- GBPincluding frame and postage within Europe, Globally plus 125 pounds.
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sesssion
New Member
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August 2007
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by sesssion on Aug 29, 2010 13:31:49 GMT 1, I have been offered a full roll of Andy Warhol fish wallpaper in a deal.
Can anybody give me a guide price please?
S
I have been offered a full roll of Andy Warhol fish wallpaper in a deal.
Can anybody give me a guide price please?
S
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Aug 29, 2010 14:12:26 GMT 1, Can hel you with that. Sent you a PM
Can hel you with that. Sent you a PM
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Michael Jacob
Artist
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Michael Jacob on Sept 27, 2010 17:18:27 GMT 1, one of my favorites! wish I could bid
one of my favorites! wish I could bid
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Pattycakes on Sept 27, 2010 17:55:58 GMT 1, I saw it, alas it's completely destroyed, so I am not bidding. Shame it's a great print but at 6-8 about 3 grand overpriced. shame in good condition it's a 15-20k print
I saw it, alas it's completely destroyed, so I am not bidding. Shame it's a great print but at 6-8 about 3 grand overpriced. shame in good condition it's a 15-20k print
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 27, 2010 22:53:38 GMT 1, Yup great print.
Probably the most expensive soup can of the series. Last one went for ยฃ40K at Christie's in April.
What's the damage on this one? (matted or like really destroyed).
Yup great print.
Probably the most expensive soup can of the series. Last one went for ยฃ40K at Christie's in April.
What's the damage on this one? (matted or like really destroyed).
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by walshy on Sept 27, 2010 22:59:27 GMT 1, What prices do the soup cans range from in decent condition ?
What prices do the soup cans range from in decent condition ?
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Pattycakes on Sept 27, 2010 23:00:20 GMT 1, torn, trimmed and heavily scuffed. It's a ruin sadly.
torn, trimmed and heavily scuffed. It's a ruin sadly.
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 10:29:17 GMT 1, Most ones are ranging from about ยฃ6K to ยฃ8K (hammer price) which means ยฃ9K to ยฃ12K.
Except the tomato which can skyrocket in good condition.
Most ones are ranging from about ยฃ6K to ยฃ8K (hammer price) which means ยฃ9K to ยฃ12K.
Except the tomato which can skyrocket in good condition.
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saint
Junior Member
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September 2010
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by saint on Sept 28, 2010 14:51:19 GMT 1, warhol finished at 9.4k hammer...
i thought the Blake srgt peppers finished low, 1.3k....
warhol finished at 9.4k hammer...
i thought the Blake srgt peppers finished low, 1.3k....
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 15:15:21 GMT 1, When you think that the last one in perfect condition went for ยฃ40K hammer price in April.. It's not that bad price in the end..
When you think that the last one in perfect condition went for ยฃ40K hammer price in April.. It's not that bad price in the end..
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achtungbono
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,093
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May 2008
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 16:15:45 GMT 1, The guy should try more before forging signatures lol
2) Warhol never made any EA
3) He could have at least took a piece that actually existed...
The guy should try more before forging signatures lol
2) Warhol never made any EA
3) He could have at least took a piece that actually existed...
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mmmike
Junior Member
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by mmmike on Sept 28, 2010 18:25:39 GMT 1, So I have a follow up question, How do people judge or value prints that are less than mint? I have seen warhol prints that had small tears or small creases but I have no clue how to value them. I don't want to over pay in case I need to sell and raise money down the road.
Any thoughts or a rule of thumb that people go by?
So I have a follow up question, How do people judge or value prints that are less than mint? I have seen warhol prints that had small tears or small creases but I have no clue how to value them. I don't want to over pay in case I need to sell and raise money down the road.
Any thoughts or a rule of thumb that people go by?
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hlarmy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,199
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by hlarmy on Sept 28, 2010 18:31:34 GMT 1, So I have a follow up question, How do people judge or value prints that are less than mint? I have seen warhol prints that had small tears or small creases but I have no clue how to value them. I don't want to over pay in case I need to sell and raise money down the road. Any thoughts or a rule of thumb that people go by?
How long is a piece of string? 
I'm no expert but I would imagine it depends on the extent of the damage? At a complete guess, if the damage is minimal I would be looking to knock off at least 20% of the market value. If the damage is more extensive then personally I would stay well clear if there are mint versions available at the market price - however I appreciate the Warhol market is a lot different to most of the artists I've ever bought. I would be more inclined to buy a damaged Warhol than Banksy for example as it would be my only chance of owning one.
Having said that, certain types of damage can add a premium to the market value
So I have a follow up question, How do people judge or value prints that are less than mint? I have seen warhol prints that had small tears or small creases but I have no clue how to value them. I don't want to over pay in case I need to sell and raise money down the road. Any thoughts or a rule of thumb that people go by? How long is a piece of string? I'm no expert but I would imagine it depends on the extent of the damage? At a complete guess, if the damage is minimal I would be looking to knock off at least 20% of the market value. If the damage is more extensive then personally I would stay well clear if there are mint versions available at the market price - however I appreciate the Warhol market is a lot different to most of the artists I've ever bought. I would be more inclined to buy a damaged Warhol than Banksy for example as it would be my only chance of owning one. Having said that, certain types of damage can add a premium to the market value |
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by wizzy on Sept 28, 2010 18:50:25 GMT 1, Wouldnt bother me if i bought it right, nail it in a frame and bang it up with the others.
Wouldnt bother me if i bought it right, nail it in a frame and bang it up with the others.
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saint
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,887
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September 2010
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by saint on Sept 28, 2010 19:27:20 GMT 1, To be fair i'm not sure how accurately the price reflects what it should have gone for, it was the sale with the Ludwig Meidner in that was estimated at a meager 800-1.2mil. The last one at auction hit around 2mil in 2006 i think.
Anyway i think alot of money may have been flashed there....
To be fair i'm not sure how accurately the price reflects what it should have gone for, it was the sale with the Ludwig Meidner in that was estimated at a meager 800-1.2mil. The last one at auction hit around 2mil in 2006 i think.
Anyway i think alot of money may have been flashed there....
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 20:29:01 GMT 1, To answer to mmike, you have to see the pieces differently than like a banksy (or any of the contemporary print). You have to think that in the 1960's, they didn't have all the techniques we have to preserve prints (I also think that the prints were cheaper as well...)
I think that most prints are estimated on a basis of a good condition (which means allowing some small scuff, colour loss, a small tear, creasing....).
Afterwards, if there's a major problem like trimming or major scuffs or tears... They will put a lower price (I'm only talking auction house).
On the other hand, if the print is mint as new or in very good condition with no problem. You can expect that buyers will pay way more without having to change the estimate.
By the way, it's really hard to say that the estimate is the value of an item. The choice of the estimate is really important (not talking christie's or sotheby's but every other auction house), too high you gonna scare potential buyers and too low you're sending a message that there is something wrong with an item! (Remember that most buyers are not in the room for the auction).
But yeah, it's totally different. There's a lot of prints that you can't find in really good condition because it wasn't intended to be really cared after.
Another method is to use a grading system (they use it for vintage poster for example) as they use one for vinyl. They then use a table to convert it into value. A bit like what harmy was saying but not sure that 20% is quite fair lol.
But I guess that the first method is mostly used.
To answer to mmike, you have to see the pieces differently than like a banksy (or any of the contemporary print). You have to think that in the 1960's, they didn't have all the techniques we have to preserve prints (I also think that the prints were cheaper as well...)
I think that most prints are estimated on a basis of a good condition (which means allowing some small scuff, colour loss, a small tear, creasing....).
Afterwards, if there's a major problem like trimming or major scuffs or tears... They will put a lower price (I'm only talking auction house).
On the other hand, if the print is mint as new or in very good condition with no problem. You can expect that buyers will pay way more without having to change the estimate.
By the way, it's really hard to say that the estimate is the value of an item. The choice of the estimate is really important (not talking christie's or sotheby's but every other auction house), too high you gonna scare potential buyers and too low you're sending a message that there is something wrong with an item! (Remember that most buyers are not in the room for the auction).
But yeah, it's totally different. There's a lot of prints that you can't find in really good condition because it wasn't intended to be really cared after.
Another method is to use a grading system (they use it for vintage poster for example) as they use one for vinyl. They then use a table to convert it into value. A bit like what harmy was saying but not sure that 20% is quite fair lol.
But I guess that the first method is mostly used.
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naughtyshorty
Junior Member
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February 2010
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by naughtyshorty on Sept 28, 2010 20:46:49 GMT 1, its a shame its been through the mill, but i suppose like bruskstrokes says, its pretty par for the course. reminds me of the stories of people sellotaping original banksys up on their walls back in the old days, and trimming them to fit ikea frames. Personally, i dont mind a 60's print with a bit of wear.. in one way, it adds to the effect of the print...
its a shame its been through the mill, but i suppose like bruskstrokes says, its pretty par for the course. reminds me of the stories of people sellotaping original banksys up on their walls back in the old days, and trimming them to fit ikea frames. Personally, i dont mind a 60's print with a bit of wear.. in one way, it adds to the effect of the print...
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 20:51:36 GMT 1, I think that you also have to consider in the price where the print is selling...
If you sell at Christie's or Sotheby's for almost any print or painting you'll have an higher price. Except for Warhol, there's one auction house in Italy that sells stuff at an incredible high price (don't know if the game is rigged over there!).
From my experience, Americans are more likely to be more thorough with condition whereas Europeans tend to buy pieces they like no matter what the condition is (to some extent, of course).
I think that you also have to consider in the price where the print is selling...
If you sell at Christie's or Sotheby's for almost any print or painting you'll have an higher price. Except for Warhol, there's one auction house in Italy that sells stuff at an incredible high price (don't know if the game is rigged over there!).
From my experience, Americans are more likely to be more thorough with condition whereas Europeans tend to buy pieces they like no matter what the condition is (to some extent, of course).
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hanky
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December 2007
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by hanky on Sept 28, 2010 21:14:59 GMT 1, Even the frame is awful
Even the frame is awful
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Brushstrokes 75 on Sept 28, 2010 21:24:40 GMT 1, 2 people have already been fooled lol
2 people have already been fooled lol
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grewham
New Member
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August 2010
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by grewham on Sept 29, 2010 9:24:08 GMT 1, We should all click the watch button and pass it on to any other forums we know he will be well excited 
We should all click the watch button and pass it on to any other forums we know he will be well excited |
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stickitup
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 448
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June 2007
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by stickitup on Sept 29, 2010 9:55:17 GMT 1, I'm in
I'm in
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