lee3
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on Jan 19, 2010 17:23:32 GMT 1, >>>Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future? <<<
I suppose that depensds what you mean by problem. PC has been crystal clear with what they will and will not issue a COA for generally speaking. The more clarity on this issue while an artist is living, the easier it will be for future generations to deal after we're all long and gone. I would not hold my breath for PC to reverse course on anything with your comment "at the moment." Part of their job is to eliminate confusion and bring clarity for all to understand. Therefore, I would be stunned to see them reverse course on any of their previous edicts.
>>>Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future? <<<
I suppose that depensds what you mean by problem. PC has been crystal clear with what they will and will not issue a COA for generally speaking. The more clarity on this issue while an artist is living, the easier it will be for future generations to deal after we're all long and gone. I would not hold my breath for PC to reverse course on anything with your comment "at the moment." Part of their job is to eliminate confusion and bring clarity for all to understand. Therefore, I would be stunned to see them reverse course on any of their previous edicts.
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silvermyn
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by silvermyn on Jan 19, 2010 17:54:24 GMT 1, Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.
Refusing to give a COA (as POW do) or issuing a public finding of the authentication of a piece is one thing. But surely marking/damaging private property in this way cannot be justified. IMO where there is clear evidence of fraudulent behaviour by the owner or there is an intention to deceive then the police should be involved rather than the Foundation taking matters into their own hands.
I do hope Joe Simon wins his case
Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone. Refusing to give a COA (as POW do) or issuing a public finding of the authentication of a piece is one thing. But surely marking/damaging private property in this way cannot be justified. IMO where there is clear evidence of fraudulent behaviour by the owner or there is an intention to deceive then the police should be involved rather than the Foundation taking matters into their own hands. I do hope Joe Simon wins his case
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lee3
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on Jan 19, 2010 18:30:51 GMT 1, >>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<<
It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
>>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<<
It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
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Damien
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Damien on Jan 19, 2010 23:53:27 GMT 1, people always getting higher value when they die.how are people going to know if banky dies though if nobody knows who he is though, they /he could just keep on releasing paintings
people always getting higher value when they die.how are people going to know if banky dies though if nobody knows who he is though, they /he could just keep on releasing paintings
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silvermyn
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by silvermyn on Jan 20, 2010 10:26:46 GMT 1, >>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<< It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
Thanks for clarifying lee3. Figured there would be some sort of terms and conditions allowing it somewhere allong the application process. Be careful what you sign up for I guess.
>>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<< It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning. Thanks for clarifying lee3. Figured there would be some sort of terms and conditions allowing it somewhere allong the application process. Be careful what you sign up for I guess.
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lifeonwalls
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by lifeonwalls on Jan 20, 2010 15:04:58 GMT 1, Good read, thanks for posting.
Good read, thanks for posting.
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discoduster
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by discoduster on Apr 6, 2010 15:06:21 GMT 1, Looking to buy one of the iconic Campbells Soup prints but after a online search there seems to be a myriad of copies available.
I'm a poor peasant boy but I'm after something more than a standard poster repro, something like a numbered copy.
I've tried the Warhol museum but they only seem to have oversized giclees but don't say if they are numbered or limited in any way.
Any info would be greatfully received.
churz
Looking to buy one of the iconic Campbells Soup prints but after a online search there seems to be a myriad of copies available.
I'm a poor peasant boy but I'm after something more than a standard poster repro, something like a numbered copy.
I've tried the Warhol museum but they only seem to have oversized giclees but don't say if they are numbered or limited in any way.
Any info would be greatfully received.
churz
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muti
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by muti on Apr 6, 2010 15:11:23 GMT 1, Have you tried the Sunday B morning editions?
Have you tried the Sunday B morning editions?
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 15:20:12 GMT 1, Have you tried the Sunday B morning editions?
Even with these muti, there seems to be a few copies (I think). Currently on Ebay for example there are loads of Marilyns from "Sunday B Morning" from Germany. If I remember rightly, the same seller had a load of these going over a year ago when a member on here was selling his. Not sure what the story is myself.
Have you tried the Sunday B morning editions? Even with these muti, there seems to be a few copies (I think). Currently on Ebay for example there are loads of Marilyns from "Sunday B Morning" from Germany. If I remember rightly, the same seller had a load of these going over a year ago when a member on here was selling his. Not sure what the story is myself.
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DOH
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by DOH on Apr 6, 2010 15:33:13 GMT 1, We have a Sunday B Morning "Warhol Flowers" hanging in our house...if you get the framing right, they make fantastic pieces of affordable decorative art...the quality is excellent.
We have a Sunday B Morning "Warhol Flowers" hanging in our house...if you get the framing right, they make fantastic pieces of affordable decorative art...the quality is excellent.
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 15:36:25 GMT 1, Another thing I can't quite get my head around. Being in the similar position as most if not all folk on this forum, I can't afford a Warhol print(!) So the next alternative would be a Sunday B Morning as theomen has hanging above. However, why pay the SBM prices when again, an unlimted 'poster' at a fraction of that cost could well do and mean the same?
Another thing I can't quite get my head around. Being in the similar position as most if not all folk on this forum, I can't afford a Warhol print(!) So the next alternative would be a Sunday B Morning as theomen has hanging above. However, why pay the SBM prices when again, an unlimted 'poster' at a fraction of that cost could well do and mean the same?
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DOH
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by DOH on Apr 6, 2010 15:45:14 GMT 1, Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website. The difference BTW SBM and a poster is that they are silkscreens (printed on museum board) using more contemporary colour interpretations of Warhol's work.
Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website. The difference BTW SBM and a poster is that they are silkscreens (printed on museum board) using more contemporary colour interpretations of Warhol's work.
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 15:58:22 GMT 1, Yeah, sorry omen. In my head I'd gone onto general SBM prints! But you are correct in pointing out the difference of silkscreening. Yeah, that's the difference!
Yeah, sorry omen. In my head I'd gone onto general SBM prints! But you are correct in pointing out the difference of silkscreening. Yeah, that's the difference!
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bonesy
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by bonesy on Apr 6, 2010 16:01:27 GMT 1, I think the SBMs were actually made on Warhol's screens.
I think the SBMs were actually made on Warhol's screens.
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curiousgeorge
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by curiousgeorge on Apr 6, 2010 16:03:54 GMT 1, Might be worth sending Lee? Lee3? a pm, bit of a font on knowledge on all things Warhol
Might be worth sending Lee? Lee3? a pm, bit of a font on knowledge on all things Warhol
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muti
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by muti on Apr 6, 2010 16:04:36 GMT 1, The SBMs were to my understanding made on his screens, I think with these prints you still need to do your homework as I have seen a few claiming to be SBMs and are clearly not.
The SBMs were to my understanding made on his screens, I think with these prints you still need to do your homework as I have seen a few claiming to be SBMs and are clearly not.
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DOH
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by DOH on Apr 6, 2010 16:06:30 GMT 1, I think the SBMs were actually made on Warhol's screens.
Correct
I think the SBMs were actually made on Warhol's screens. Correct
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 16:06:39 GMT 1, Might be worth sending Lee? Lee3? a pm, bit of a font on knowledge on all things Warhol
That he is!
Might be worth sending Lee? Lee3? a pm, bit of a font on knowledge on all things Warhol That he is!
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Ruggs
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by Ruggs on Apr 6, 2010 16:09:07 GMT 1, Opus have the SBM Soup Cans available. Several variants and ยฃ587.50 incl VAT. Scroll to the end. www.opus-art.com/artists/AndyWarhol
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 16:15:04 GMT 1, Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website.
Thanks to ruggs. Soup cans as well...porfolio or singles.
Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website. Thanks to ruggs. Soup cans as well...porfolio or singles.
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DOH
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by DOH on Apr 6, 2010 16:16:28 GMT 1, You can buy prints directly from Sunday B Morning....from about $400...but they did take about month to reply to my first email.
You can buy prints directly from Sunday B Morning....from about $400...but they did take about month to reply to my first email.
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discoduster
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by discoduster on Apr 6, 2010 16:34:59 GMT 1,
Thanks ppl.
And thanks for the link Ruggs to Opus, does that mean the're half that price elsewhere?
Thanks ppl. And thanks for the link Ruggs to Opus, does that mean the're half that price elsewhere?
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discoduster
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by discoduster on Apr 6, 2010 16:39:50 GMT 1, Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website. Thanks to ruggs. Soup cans as well...porfolio or singles.
YEAH!! I want a Cheddar Cheese one!!
Rico....not entirely sure that Sunday B Morning do or did Soup Cans, they are not displayed on their website. Thanks to ruggs. Soup cans as well...porfolio or singles. YEAH!! I want a Cheddar Cheese one!!
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lee3
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2010 16:43:34 GMT 1, From *my* vantage point the Sunday B Morning prints are nothing more then licensed (and therefore expensive) copies . It's like buying a new car and the minute you walk off the lot, its lost half its value. They are expensive because they are licensed through the Foundation. If one can tell the difference between a SBM print and a nice $40 ebay copy, you've got a better eye then I do and neither is going to appreciate much from the price you pay while both will probably depreciate over the long term.
As for the price of Warhol prints, many are quite affordable (if one defines a $2,500 print as affordable) within the silly context of art price discussions due to the enormous edition size. The original soup cans have never achieved prices anywhere near the Marilyn's or Mao's which are his two most expensive. There are 5k signed soup can prints with 20 different kinds of soup each numbered to 250. Depending upon condition those will cost you from $5k to $30k with Tomato soup being the expensive. Average price today is probably around $15k for the 20 signed soupcan prints completed in '68 and '69. Unfortunately, your timing isn't terribly good right now as Warhol prints went through the moon last week at auction (your best avenue to source his prints imho) and given what's coming up in May, we may all have sticker shock in short order.
As I mentioned previously, *I* wouldn't pay up for the SBM prints which may not be the same case for you. If $15k is way out of the budget for this image, which it would be for most, then I would look for as nice of a sub $100 replica that you can find. Understand that aside from the two editions completed in '68 & '69 none of the others will retain their value over the long term. This site is a wonderful tool to look around and see what you like and you may be surprised to learn just how many of them can be hanging in your home signed for well under $5k.
www.warholprints.com/Image.Gallery.html
From *my* vantage point the Sunday B Morning prints are nothing more then licensed (and therefore expensive) copies . It's like buying a new car and the minute you walk off the lot, its lost half its value. They are expensive because they are licensed through the Foundation. If one can tell the difference between a SBM print and a nice $40 ebay copy, you've got a better eye then I do and neither is going to appreciate much from the price you pay while both will probably depreciate over the long term. As for the price of Warhol prints, many are quite affordable (if one defines a $2,500 print as affordable) within the silly context of art price discussions due to the enormous edition size. The original soup cans have never achieved prices anywhere near the Marilyn's or Mao's which are his two most expensive. There are 5k signed soup can prints with 20 different kinds of soup each numbered to 250. Depending upon condition those will cost you from $5k to $30k with Tomato soup being the expensive. Average price today is probably around $15k for the 20 signed soupcan prints completed in '68 and '69. Unfortunately, your timing isn't terribly good right now as Warhol prints went through the moon last week at auction (your best avenue to source his prints imho) and given what's coming up in May, we may all have sticker shock in short order. As I mentioned previously, *I* wouldn't pay up for the SBM prints which may not be the same case for you. If $15k is way out of the budget for this image, which it would be for most, then I would look for as nice of a sub $100 replica that you can find. Understand that aside from the two editions completed in '68 & '69 none of the others will retain their value over the long term. This site is a wonderful tool to look around and see what you like and you may be surprised to learn just how many of them can be hanging in your home signed for well under $5k. www.warholprints.com/Image.Gallery.html
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by leumasdarnley on Apr 6, 2010 16:46:57 GMT 1, great input lee3 you are a true asset to the forum thank you
great input lee3 you are a true asset to the forum thank you
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ricobenfico
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by ricobenfico on Apr 6, 2010 16:52:04 GMT 1, great input lee3 you are a true asset to the forum thank you
Appreciate that lee3, ditto above.
great input lee3 you are a true asset to the forum thank you Appreciate that lee3, ditto above.
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discoduster
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by discoduster on Apr 6, 2010 16:57:32 GMT 1, Cheers for that lee.
What's your take on the numbered lithos? There's one currently on the bay
Cheers for that lee.
What's your take on the numbered lithos? There's one currently on the bay
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lee3
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2010 17:04:15 GMT 1, >>>What's your take on the numbered lithos? <<<
Disco, I'm afraid I don't know what you are talking about. I'll put it simply, from my perspective if one is investing in the image buy the official print run, AP/TP or the unique one offs that are authenticated by the estate/foundation. Otherwise, if one enjoys the image and can not afford the official releases, buy the cheapest one that looks the best to you as nothing else (imo) is going to appreciate over time.
>>>What's your take on the numbered lithos? <<<
Disco, I'm afraid I don't know what you are talking about. I'll put it simply, from my perspective if one is investing in the image buy the official print run, AP/TP or the unique one offs that are authenticated by the estate/foundation. Otherwise, if one enjoys the image and can not afford the official releases, buy the cheapest one that looks the best to you as nothing else (imo) is going to appreciate over time.
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wallwiss
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Andy Warhol ๐บ๐ธ Real or Fake? โข Sunday B. Morning Print, by wallwiss on Apr 6, 2010 17:08:19 GMT 1, Sunday B morning editions are far more superior than a cheap litho off ebay, they are printed using the warhol screens and although they arent numbered they have a stamp on the back which is either in red or blue this denotes whether they are a first or second edition sunday b morning edition print you cam pick up the later editions from the flowers, marilyns or soups from around ยฃ100.00, dont buy a poster there. From the front a sunday b morning is no diffrent than the signed edition of 250 as these are signed to the back anyway. The quality is just the same as the edition of 250, hope this helps
Sunday B morning editions are far more superior than a cheap litho off ebay, they are printed using the warhol screens and although they arent numbered they have a stamp on the back which is either in red or blue this denotes whether they are a first or second edition sunday b morning edition print you cam pick up the later editions from the flowers, marilyns or soups from around ยฃ100.00, dont buy a poster there. From the front a sunday b morning is no diffrent than the signed edition of 250 as these are signed to the back anyway. The quality is just the same as the edition of 250, hope this helps
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