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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by shaunyboy on Apr 7, 2008 23:17:49 GMT 1, I totally support these protests and hope they continue throughout the whole world. Nice one Paris 
China's abysmal human rights record means they should not host the Olympics.
We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities and even now most Chinese are still unable to access information about due to Chinese authorities censorship of press and the internet in China.
It is rather naive to suggest that politics and sport should be kept separate. The fact is that human rights transcend both. The Chinese people deserve more than what they are currently getting..and don't even get me started about the invasion of Tibet by China in 1950...
www.freetibet.org/
I totally support these protests and hope they continue throughout the whole world. Nice one Paris China's abysmal human rights record means they should not host the Olympics. We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities and even now most Chinese are still unable to access information about due to Chinese authorities censorship of press and the internet in China. It is rather naive to suggest that politics and sport should be kept separate. The fact is that human rights transcend both. The Chinese people deserve more than what they are currently getting..and don't even get me started about the invasion of Tibet by China in 1950... www.freetibet.org/ |
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etched
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otomi
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by otomi on Apr 7, 2008 23:27:01 GMT 1, I totally support these protests and hope they continue throughout the whole world. Nice one Paris China's abysmal human rights record means they should not host the Olympics. We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities and even now most Chinese are still unable to access information about due to Chinese authorities censorship of press and the internet in China. It is rather naive to suggest that politics and sport should be kept separate. The fact is that human rights transcend both. The Chinese people deserve more than what they are currently getting..and don't even get me started about the invasion of Tibet by China in 1950... www.freetibet.org/
I agree with you completely.
I totally support these protests and hope they continue throughout the whole world. Nice one Paris China's abysmal human rights record means they should not host the Olympics. We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities and even now most Chinese are still unable to access information about due to Chinese authorities censorship of press and the internet in China. It is rather naive to suggest that politics and sport should be kept separate. The fact is that human rights transcend both. The Chinese people deserve more than what they are currently getting..and don't even get me started about the invasion of Tibet by China in 1950... www.freetibet.org/I agree with you completely. |
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by melfeasance on Apr 7, 2008 23:42:32 GMT 1, Here in San Francisco - the only US city to host the torch - we are exploding with protest. For starters: the ultimate protest graffiti today...
Three people protesting China's human rights record and the impending arrival of the Olympic torch have climbed 150 feet up the Golden Gate Bridge and tied the Tibetan flag and two banners to its cables. The banners read "One World, One Dream. Free Tibet" and "Free Tibet '08."
Go to Flickr for some breathtaking pictures:
www.flickr.com/search/?q=Tibet%20Golden%20Gate%20Bridge
Here in San Francisco - the only US city to host the torch - we are exploding with protest. For starters: the ultimate protest graffiti today... Three people protesting China's human rights record and the impending arrival of the Olympic torch have climbed 150 feet up the Golden Gate Bridge and tied the Tibetan flag and two banners to its cables. The banners read "One World, One Dream. Free Tibet" and "Free Tibet '08." Go to Flickr for some breathtaking pictures: www.flickr.com/search/?q=Tibet%20Golden%20Gate%20Bridge |
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Deleted
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 7:41:37 GMT 1, i know a bloke who was i China atthe time of the Tianenmen Square Massacre. He deicded to leave the country soon after. whilst on a train he was given a video tape with footage of the Massacre, by a student and asked to show it to the press in England. My friend then was arrested by Police when trying to leave the country, they knew where this tape was and didnt even have to search. basically he was set up and then used as an example of what would happen to anyone who tryed to do the same. it was quite big news, by all accounts. he spent a while a prison and was only let out, he feels because he dad is a Diplomat somehwere and managed to pull a few strings.
i know a bloke who was i China atthe time of the Tianenmen Square Massacre. He deicded to leave the country soon after. whilst on a train he was given a video tape with footage of the Massacre, by a student and asked to show it to the press in England. My friend then was arrested by Police when trying to leave the country, they knew where this tape was and didnt even have to search. basically he was set up and then used as an example of what would happen to anyone who tryed to do the same. it was quite big news, by all accounts. he spent a while a prison and was only let out, he feels because he dad is a Diplomat somehwere and managed to pull a few strings.
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angryboy
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by angryboy on Apr 8, 2008 10:24:25 GMT 1, BONGO INTRIGUED WITH PROTEST AND REACTION TO PROTEST BONGO IS ALWAYS AWARE THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE VIEWPOINT TO ANY STORY. BONGO GLAD TO SEE ACTIVISM WITHOUT INJURY, BUT BONGO ALSO CONSIDERS THE PERSPECTIVE THAT WE ALL TACITLY OR NOT SUPPORT BY CHINESE REGIME BY OUR WESTERN FETISHMENT OF CONSUMER ITEMS AND ELECTRONIC GOODS. BONGO NOTE THAT THE SHOES WORN BY PROTESTORS LIKELY TO BE CHINESE MADE, DITTO MOBILE PHONES AND SUCHLIKE. BONGO DOES NOT WISH TO DERIDE PROTESTORS AND DOES ACCEPT THAT IN TERMS OF PUBLICITY , THE PROTESTS ACHIEVED THEIR AIM, IF NOT ANY LASTING EFFECT ON CHINESE REGIME BUT BONGO THINKS A WIDER VIEW NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED - AN JOLLY AFTERNOON IN THE OPEN AIR IS AN EASY DAY OUT AND MAY EASE ONES GUILT ABOUT NOT BEING INVOLVED, BUT IS A DIVERSIONARY IRRELEVANCE SOME OF CYNICAL OUTLOOK MIGHT SAY. TIBET IS NOT THE ISSUE , DESPITE THE HEADLINES CHINA COULD BE CONSIDERED AN EASY TARGET, BUT ITS POWER GROWS BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF OUR SOCIETY IN MANY WAYS. IT IS AN INTRUIGING QUANDRY
Aye, it seems a bit strange to me that people are protesting so much about the Olympics and China's human rights record yet at the same time, I assume, still living off cheap Chinese exports.
I'd have thought one would have far more of an impact upon China if one stopped buying Chinese produced products that they would by trying to extinguish an Olympic torch.
I go so far to say it's a tad hyprocritical to moan about Chinese human rights and the Olympics unless one has actively stopped purchasing Chinese exports.
BONGO INTRIGUED WITH PROTEST AND REACTION TO PROTEST BONGO IS ALWAYS AWARE THAT THERE IS MORE THAN ONE VIEWPOINT TO ANY STORY. BONGO GLAD TO SEE ACTIVISM WITHOUT INJURY, BUT BONGO ALSO CONSIDERS THE PERSPECTIVE THAT WE ALL TACITLY OR NOT SUPPORT BY CHINESE REGIME BY OUR WESTERN FETISHMENT OF CONSUMER ITEMS AND ELECTRONIC GOODS. BONGO NOTE THAT THE SHOES WORN BY PROTESTORS LIKELY TO BE CHINESE MADE, DITTO MOBILE PHONES AND SUCHLIKE. BONGO DOES NOT WISH TO DERIDE PROTESTORS AND DOES ACCEPT THAT IN TERMS OF PUBLICITY , THE PROTESTS ACHIEVED THEIR AIM, IF NOT ANY LASTING EFFECT ON CHINESE REGIME BUT BONGO THINKS A WIDER VIEW NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED - AN JOLLY AFTERNOON IN THE OPEN AIR IS AN EASY DAY OUT AND MAY EASE ONES GUILT ABOUT NOT BEING INVOLVED, BUT IS A DIVERSIONARY IRRELEVANCE SOME OF CYNICAL OUTLOOK MIGHT SAY. TIBET IS NOT THE ISSUE , DESPITE THE HEADLINES CHINA COULD BE CONSIDERED AN EASY TARGET, BUT ITS POWER GROWS BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF OUR SOCIETY IN MANY WAYS. IT IS AN INTRUIGING QUANDRY Aye, it seems a bit strange to me that people are protesting so much about the Olympics and China's human rights record yet at the same time, I assume, still living off cheap Chinese exports. I'd have thought one would have far more of an impact upon China if one stopped buying Chinese produced products that they would by trying to extinguish an Olympic torch. I go so far to say it's a tad hyprocritical to moan about Chinese human rights and the Olympics unless one has actively stopped purchasing Chinese exports. |
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GD303uk
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by GD303uk on Apr 8, 2008 18:12:51 GMT 1, I don’t support England’s foreign policy or the current labour government but I still buy English goods when I can, angryboy your argument does not make sense people are not hypocrites if the are protesting for a just course it doesn’t matter what they do with their lives, but on this occasion they made a protest and on this occasion they have done good. How do you know that the people protesting for Tibet and human rights in china are wearing shoes made in china and living of cheap Chinese imports,
I have nothing against the Chinese people are their business , I have a problem with any government that crushes a culture and has killed so many , the students of Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 are not hypocrites for living in china yet protesting about policies that they don’t agree with,
Do you agree with what china has done to Tibet since the 50’s , is His Holiness the 14th the Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso a criminal mastermind , are the people of Tibet or China free to say what they want , they cant even Google the way we can,
Sitting on the fence claiming we are hypocrites doesn’t take anything away from the fact that China is doing wrong in Tibet and to its own people, and the Olympics being held there has provided a great opportunity for people to learn and maybe do something to make a small difference.
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/01/china.randeepramesh
www.tibet.com/DL/biography.html
I don’t support England’s foreign policy or the current labour government but I still buy English goods when I can, angryboy your argument does not make sense people are not hypocrites if the are protesting for a just course it doesn’t matter what they do with their lives, but on this occasion they made a protest and on this occasion they have done good. How do you know that the people protesting for Tibet and human rights in china are wearing shoes made in china and living of cheap Chinese imports, I have nothing against the Chinese people are their business , I have a problem with any government that crushes a culture and has killed so many , the students of Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 are not hypocrites for living in china yet protesting about policies that they don’t agree with, Do you agree with what china has done to Tibet since the 50’s , is His Holiness the 14th the Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso a criminal mastermind , are the people of Tibet or China free to say what they want , they cant even Google the way we can, Sitting on the fence claiming we are hypocrites doesn’t take anything away from the fact that China is doing wrong in Tibet and to its own people, and the Olympics being held there has provided a great opportunity for people to learn and maybe do something to make a small difference. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/01/china.randeeprameshwww.tibet.com/DL/biography.html |
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bert
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by bert on Apr 8, 2008 19:24:03 GMT 1, I feel that the controlling forces behind chunks of the Western press is anti-China for political and economic reasons and use human rights as a stick to beat them. Whilst having the positive effect of highlighting said atrocities, I do get the feeling a constant negative diatribe leads to people confusing the Chinese government with the Chinese people (e.g. “the Chinese have a shocking humans rights record” as oppose to “the Chinese government has a shocking human rights record”) leading to a nasty anti-China feeling. As a previous poster said, I feel it would be a shame to deny the people of China the joy of the Olympics, based on their government's actions.
I feel that the controlling forces behind chunks of the Western press is anti-China for political and economic reasons and use human rights as a stick to beat them. Whilst having the positive effect of highlighting said atrocities, I do get the feeling a constant negative diatribe leads to people confusing the Chinese government with the Chinese people (e.g. “the Chinese have a shocking humans rights record” as oppose to “the Chinese government has a shocking human rights record”) leading to a nasty anti-China feeling. As a previous poster said, I feel it would be a shame to deny the people of China the joy of the Olympics, based on their government's actions.
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otomi
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by otomi on Apr 8, 2008 20:13:23 GMT 1, I try not to buy chinese product - it is not always possible of course - I do owna computer, a TV etc. I also don't wanna punish the people in china but I do boycott the games. China uses to justify what they are doing. I will not watch the games and won't buy from companies that sponsor them. I read a study that in 2/3 of the cases it would be cheaper to not manufacture in China. Shipping and quality control add so much in the process that it becomes more expensive. (this study was done for Germany)
I try not to buy chinese product - it is not always possible of course - I do owna computer, a TV etc. I also don't wanna punish the people in china but I do boycott the games. China uses to justify what they are doing. I will not watch the games and won't buy from companies that sponsor them. I read a study that in 2/3 of the cases it would be cheaper to not manufacture in China. Shipping and quality control add so much in the process that it becomes more expensive. (this study was done for Germany)
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otomi
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by otomi on Apr 8, 2008 20:15:57 GMT 1, they picked the wrong city in the US if they don't want protests - we'll see what goes down tomorrow - on a regular day you see more Tibet flags in Berkeley that US flags 
they picked the wrong city in the US if they don't want protests - we'll see what goes down tomorrow - on a regular day you see more Tibet flags in Berkeley that US flags |
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Viva Hate
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by Viva Hate on Apr 8, 2008 22:11:42 GMT 1,
Tibet is only a very minor part of the issue in the china debate.
Before the decision of China to host the olympics, how many people actually knew the involvments of China's past and presence with more concerning issues.
The list is exhaustive, major ones are trade with Iran(supplying arms, technology for nuclear weapons and every nuclear and chemical weapon out there etc)**The chinese government gets preferential treatment over Irans oil fields than U.S.A**, supplying arms to Sudan (at present 2 million dead since 83), supporting Vietnam against U.S.A(we all know what happened there), not to mention there domestic disturbances and human rights(there 1000's domestic protests a year).
The attitude of just to shun the games is not the brightest idea, remember Jesse Owens.
Its an overall stance against Marxism, China, North korea, Iran.
Tibet is only a very minor part of the issue in the china debate.
Before the decision of China to host the olympics, how many people actually knew the involvments of China's past and presence with more concerning issues.
The list is exhaustive, major ones are trade with Iran(supplying arms, technology for nuclear weapons and every nuclear and chemical weapon out there etc)**The chinese government gets preferential treatment over Irans oil fields than U.S.A**, supplying arms to Sudan (at present 2 million dead since 83), supporting Vietnam against U.S.A(we all know what happened there), not to mention there domestic disturbances and human rights(there 1000's domestic protests a year).
The attitude of just to shun the games is not the brightest idea, remember Jesse Owens.
Its an overall stance against Marxism, China, North korea, Iran.
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goffy
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by goffy on Apr 8, 2008 23:44:22 GMT 1, Interesting point Tom.
Interesting point Tom.
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Deleted
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by Deleted on Apr 9, 2008 22:22:50 GMT 1, did anyone see the quote from the Chinese official that said something to the effect of "All I saw were people welcoming the torch carrier." when asked if he saw the protests? rose tinted glasses indeed.
did anyone see the quote from the Chinese official that said something to the effect of "All I saw were people welcoming the torch carrier." when asked if he saw the protests? rose tinted glasses indeed.
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s-editions
Art Gallery
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March 2008
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by s-editions on Apr 10, 2008 8:08:04 GMT 1, dr.d has just sent us these images of her pieces along the torch route in London last weekend.
The have probably all been pinched and stuck on eBay by now!
All the best,
All at s-editions
www.s-editions.co.uk
dr.d has just sent us these images of her pieces along the torch route in London last weekend. The have probably all been pinched and stuck on eBay by now! All the best, All at s-editions www.s-editions.co.uk |
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welshboy
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by welshboy on Apr 10, 2008 9:20:21 GMT 1, Bongo is on the ball!
Bongo is on the ball!
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by dmandpenfold on Apr 10, 2008 9:47:05 GMT 1,
isn't it? depends which paper you read, which TV channel you watch, although i would agree they all tend to tow the same line in relation to this topic
isn't it? depends which paper you read, which TV channel you watch, although i would agree they all tend to tow the same line in relation to this topic |
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BONGO
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by BONGO on Apr 10, 2008 10:15:38 GMT 1, BONGO SAY TURN OVER YOUR KEYBOARD AND TELL BONGO WHAT THE STICKER SAYS ABOUT COUNTRY OF MANUFACTURE
WE ARE ALL INVOLVED IN THE CHINA SITUATION TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE, BUT FOR MOST OF US, IT IS A HIDDEN IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP BY ASSOCIATION RATHER THAN EXPLICIT AND ORGANISED
BONGO SAY TURN OVER YOUR KEYBOARD AND TELL BONGO WHAT THE STICKER SAYS ABOUT COUNTRY OF MANUFACTURE
WE ARE ALL INVOLVED IN THE CHINA SITUATION TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE, BUT FOR MOST OF US, IT IS A HIDDEN IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP BY ASSOCIATION RATHER THAN EXPLICIT AND ORGANISED
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by dmandpenfold on Apr 10, 2008 10:31:38 GMT 1, ....We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities.... ]
Where did this figure come from? Amnesty international reckons it was less than 1,000; the Red Cross 5,000 a chinese PLA defector less than 3500 and so on.
I don't deny any number of deaths is unacceptable, but at the same time this is emotive enough without throwing facts around with careless abandon as though they are gospel.
....We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities.... ] Where did this figure come from? Amnesty international reckons it was less than 1,000; the Red Cross 5,000 a chinese PLA defector less than 3500 and so on. I don't deny any number of deaths is unacceptable, but at the same time this is emotive enough without throwing facts around with careless abandon as though they are gospel. |
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GD303uk
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by GD303uk on Apr 10, 2008 10:39:37 GMT 1, BONGO SAY TURN OVER YOUR KEYBOARD AND TELL BONGO WHAT THE STICKER SAYS ABOUT COUNTRY OF MANUFACTURE WE ARE ALL INVOLVED IN THE CHINA SITUATION TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE, BUT FOR MOST OF US, IT IS A HIDDEN IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP BY ASSOCIATION RATHER THAN EXPLICIT AND ORGANISED
My keyboard is made in germany, Cherry,
i supported the miners strike and still used electricity,
i suported the dockers strike but probably purchased goods imported through docks
i dont support the current government but buy english made items when ever i can,
and i dont agree with the Chineese government yet i am sure there are items made in china in this house, tell me Bongo are these companies owned by the chineese government?
and do you think the chineese people would be better of if they had freedom of speech?
www.amnesty.org/en/region/asia-and-pacific/east-asia/china
www.justresponse.net/China_web_appeal.html
pressure helped in the Suddan
www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htm
and if the hypocrite sepretists guided by a criminal master mind protest in clothes made in china can help in Tibet and help the people of China they are doing good, their point is made and the protest succesfull.
this is not about bashing the chineese people its about putting pressure on a government .
BONGO SAY TURN OVER YOUR KEYBOARD AND TELL BONGO WHAT THE STICKER SAYS ABOUT COUNTRY OF MANUFACTURE WE ARE ALL INVOLVED IN THE CHINA SITUATION TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE, BUT FOR MOST OF US, IT IS A HIDDEN IMPLICIT RELATIONSHIP BY ASSOCIATION RATHER THAN EXPLICIT AND ORGANISED My keyboard is made in germany, Cherry, i supported the miners strike and still used electricity, i suported the dockers strike but probably purchased goods imported through docks i dont support the current government but buy english made items when ever i can, and i dont agree with the Chineese government yet i am sure there are items made in china in this house, tell me Bongo are these companies owned by the chineese government? and do you think the chineese people would be better of if they had freedom of speech? www.amnesty.org/en/region/asia-and-pacific/east-asia/chinawww.justresponse.net/China_web_appeal.htmlpressure helped in the Suddan www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/26.htmand if the hypocrite sepretists guided by a criminal master mind protest in clothes made in china can help in Tibet and help the people of China they are doing good, their point is made and the protest succesfull. this is not about bashing the chineese people its about putting pressure on a government . |
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by dmandpenfold on Apr 10, 2008 10:45:42 GMT 1, my mouse..china, my Ikea table lamp..china, my shoes..china, my jeans..china and probably my undies too..but i am not about to check for fear of upsetting the ladies in the office
however computer is Malaysia (although the individual parts probably come from China), my pens from Japan and Germany and my mug made in Thailand..
It's surprising how much of our stuff is Chinese made
my mouse..china, my Ikea table lamp..china, my shoes..china, my jeans..china and probably my undies too..but i am not about to check for fear of upsetting the ladies in the office
however computer is Malaysia (although the individual parts probably come from China), my pens from Japan and Germany and my mug made in Thailand..
It's surprising how much of our stuff is Chinese made
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Tibet, Olympics, china,, by shaunyboy on Apr 10, 2008 13:35:17 GMT 1, ....We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities.... ] Where did this figure come from? Amnesty international reckons it was less than 1,000; the Red Cross 5,000 a chinese PLA defector less than 3500 and so on. I don't deny any number of deaths is unacceptable, but at the same time this is emotive enough without throwing facts around with careless abandon as though they are gospel.
The figures for the number of massacred are indeed very difficult to ascertain. If you notice I said, UP TO 10,000 protestors. I simply found the highest numbered source and quoted it. The source for the quote can be found in this book, Timperlake, Edward. [1999] (1999). Red Dragon Rising. Regnery Publishing. ISBN 0895262584.
Like you say it is a non argument really whether you want to believe any of the following it is still unacceptable:-
2,600 had officially died by the morning of June 4 (later denied) - the Chinese Red Cross.
An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people killed and 30,000 injured.
1,000 deaths - Amnesty International
7,000 deaths (6,000 civilians and 1,000 soldiers) - NATO intelligence
10,000 deaths in total - Soviet Bloc estimates.
in excess of 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied of medical treatment - PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers.
186 named individuals confirmed dead as at the end of June 2006 - Professor Ding Zilin.
Of course, the ambiguity of the numbers actually strengthens the argument against the Chinese authorities who cannot/will not give an accurate number of people massacred.
Therefore, I stand by my original statement, up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities.
....We should never forget the Tianenmen Square Massacre which happened only 19 years ago where up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities.... ] Where did this figure come from? Amnesty international reckons it was less than 1,000; the Red Cross 5,000 a chinese PLA defector less than 3500 and so on. I don't deny any number of deaths is unacceptable, but at the same time this is emotive enough without throwing facts around with careless abandon as though they are gospel. The figures for the number of massacred are indeed very difficult to ascertain. If you notice I said, UP TO 10,000 protestors. I simply found the highest numbered source and quoted it. The source for the quote can be found in this book, Timperlake, Edward. [1999] (1999). Red Dragon Rising. Regnery Publishing. ISBN 0895262584. Like you say it is a non argument really whether you want to believe any of the following it is still unacceptable:- 2,600 had officially died by the morning of June 4 (later denied) - the Chinese Red Cross. An unnamed Chinese Red Cross official estimated that, in total, 5,000 people killed and 30,000 injured. 1,000 deaths - Amnesty International 7,000 deaths (6,000 civilians and 1,000 soldiers) - NATO intelligence 10,000 deaths in total - Soviet Bloc estimates. in excess of 3,700 killed, excluding disappearance or secret deaths and those denied of medical treatment - PLA defector citing a document circulating among officers. 186 named individuals confirmed dead as at the end of June 2006 - Professor Ding Zilin. Of course, the ambiguity of the numbers actually strengthens the argument against the Chinese authorities who cannot/will not give an accurate number of people massacred. Therefore, I stand by my original statement, up to 10,000 protestors were massacred by the Chinese authorities. |
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