Yessir
New Member
Posts • 205
Likes • 0
November 2006
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THE TITANIC..., by Yessir on Dec 1, 2007 20:33:01 GMT 1, Please try to keep an open mind when reading my post, its just my honest opinion not a direct attack on anyone ( maybe just a sly poke at some, you know who you are  ),
Some people will agree with me, others will disagree, but I hope everyone will add their two cents
I Just checked the trade section of this forum, which I believe was set up for genuine forum members to trade among each other and not for start-up online galleries masquerading as enthusiastic forum members to find a free outlet to plug their wares ( I know Google ad fees are a bitch... but some are over doing it IMO)
95% of the problems to do with this scene are right there e.g certain galleries forums members, who NEVER post anything constructive to do with this art scene,constantly bombard us with their hoard of newly released art e.g. POW Banksy releases at a price mark-up (hate it, but its their right), which has caused a kind of DOG-EAT-DOG mentality around print release time ( who wants to line the pockets of the you-know-whos) and I believe the LAZ + POW AM prints, brought this all to a head and now we're at a point, where this scene has hit the proverbial "ICEBERG" i.e price correction of prints, due to the glut of unsold art works and people aggressively under cutting each other) and the majority of people who are now scurrying around deck with the words "abandon ship ringing through their heads", looking for the LIFEBOATS.
I just wonder as the ship sways side to side and slowly appears to be sinking. How many of us will remain on the ship to the end come-what-may??? 
Please try to keep an open mind when reading my post, its just my honest opinion not a direct attack on anyone ( maybe just a sly poke at some, you know who you are ), Some people will agree with me, others will disagree, but I hope everyone will add their two cents I Just checked the trade section of this forum, which I believe was set up for genuine forum members to trade among each other and not for start-up online galleries masquerading as enthusiastic forum members to find a free outlet to plug their wares ( I know Google ad fees are a bitch... but some are over doing it IMO) 95% of the problems to do with this scene are right there e.g certain galleries forums members, who NEVER post anything constructive to do with this art scene,constantly bombard us with their hoard of newly released art e.g. POW Banksy releases at a price mark-up (hate it, but its their right), which has caused a kind of DOG-EAT-DOG mentality around print release time ( who wants to line the pockets of the you-know-whos) and I believe the LAZ + POW AM prints, brought this all to a head and now we're at a point, where this scene has hit the proverbial "ICEBERG" i.e price correction of prints, due to the glut of unsold art works and people aggressively under cutting each other) and the majority of people who are now scurrying around deck with the words "abandon ship ringing through their heads", looking for the LIFEBOATS. I just wonder as the ship sways side to side and slowly appears to be sinking. How many of us will remain on the ship to the end come-what-may??? |
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THE TITANIC..., by corblimeylimey on Dec 1, 2007 20:46:44 GMT 1, This scene is not meant to be about investment and increasing print prices, it's about buying what you like and appreciating it, too many are on your hypothetical ship for the wrong reasons the sooner they jump off the more likely the ship will float.
This scene is not meant to be about investment and increasing print prices, it's about buying what you like and appreciating it, too many are on your hypothetical ship for the wrong reasons the sooner they jump off the more likely the ship will float.
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THE TITANIC..., by graeme501 on Dec 1, 2007 20:51:50 GMT 1, when they jump off the sharks will get them ;D
when they jump off the sharks will get them ;D
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts • 5,388
Likes • 254
January 2007
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THE TITANIC..., by pezlow on Dec 1, 2007 21:02:16 GMT 1, No disrespect Yessir but we now have four or five threads in the general chat board alone all pretty much saying the same thing. Sure a lot of people are panicking but my advice is that if you hold prints in artists such as Banksy, Faile, Neate and Swoon then hold on to them. Firstly because they will enrich your life and secondly because for these artists the train has only just started to leave the station.
No disrespect Yessir but we now have four or five threads in the general chat board alone all pretty much saying the same thing. Sure a lot of people are panicking but my advice is that if you hold prints in artists such as Banksy, Faile, Neate and Swoon then hold on to them. Firstly because they will enrich your life and secondly because for these artists the train has only just started to leave the station.
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mred
New Member
Posts • 725
Likes • 1
July 2006
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THE TITANIC..., by mred on Dec 1, 2007 21:03:57 GMT 1, CBL is spot on, you should only buy what you want to look at and only buy it if the price is ok for you. As they say investments can go down as well as up and previous performance is no guarantee of future performances.
I have been lucky to pick up a few prints that theoretically are worth more now than I paid for them, I also probably have quite a few that I would struggle to get my money back on. But as I enjoy looking at them all this is not really a problem for me.
If there was a correction and some of these blatant flippers got burnt I would not shed a tear but to be honest I now do not bother with a lot of releases I know will be swamped by flippers. I now enjoy spending my time looking for new artists, which this forum is great for, and supporting them rather than paying stupid prices to get Mr x's next piece irrespective of what it is or saying. I am a support worker and one thing we encourage the people we support to do is make choices, the above is my choice others can make their own choice.
Sorry for the rant ;D ;D
CBL is spot on, you should only buy what you want to look at and only buy it if the price is ok for you. As they say investments can go down as well as up and previous performance is no guarantee of future performances.
I have been lucky to pick up a few prints that theoretically are worth more now than I paid for them, I also probably have quite a few that I would struggle to get my money back on. But as I enjoy looking at them all this is not really a problem for me.
If there was a correction and some of these blatant flippers got burnt I would not shed a tear but to be honest I now do not bother with a lot of releases I know will be swamped by flippers. I now enjoy spending my time looking for new artists, which this forum is great for, and supporting them rather than paying stupid prices to get Mr x's next piece irrespective of what it is or saying. I am a support worker and one thing we encourage the people we support to do is make choices, the above is my choice others can make their own choice.
Sorry for the rant ;D ;D
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THE TITANIC..., by corblimeylimey on Dec 1, 2007 21:14:08 GMT 1, I agree with both pezlow and mred, I'm lucky in that 4 out of my 5 Banksy's were bought direct from POW so I haven't paid a fortune for them, I really like them and all except Trolleys is framed and being enjoyed. I'm not thinking very much of the investment, I do look and keep check on prices out of interest but I'm not acting on the results, if I were thinking about the money I'd have sold them in June or July this year when the whole collection (not inc Trolleys) could have got about £4000 opposed to £3000 today.
I agree with both pezlow and mred, I'm lucky in that 4 out of my 5 Banksy's were bought direct from POW so I haven't paid a fortune for them, I really like them and all except Trolleys is framed and being enjoyed. I'm not thinking very much of the investment, I do look and keep check on prices out of interest but I'm not acting on the results, if I were thinking about the money I'd have sold them in June or July this year when the whole collection (not inc Trolleys) could have got about £4000 opposed to £3000 today.
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andrewd
Junior Member
Posts • 1,079
Likes • 33
September 2006
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THE TITANIC..., by andrewd on Dec 1, 2007 21:36:49 GMT 1, I've been fortunate to buy alot of Banksy from POW but do the 4 soup cans, the radar rat and all the others (including one original ) really beat the radiance and depth of my Eine, PEOPLEAERHAPPIERHERE. ?
Art is all about the pleasure it gives you.
I bought a beautiful scultpure by Arthur Dooley Dec'd for £200 many years ago. He's not really recognised but the piece is a stand out in my collection.
Money is not what it is alll about.
I've been fortunate to buy alot of Banksy from POW but do the 4 soup cans, the radar rat and all the others (including one original ) really beat the radiance and depth of my Eine, PEOPLEAERHAPPIERHERE. ?
Art is all about the pleasure it gives you.
I bought a beautiful scultpure by Arthur Dooley Dec'd for £200 many years ago. He's not really recognised but the piece is a stand out in my collection.
Money is not what it is alll about.
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THE TITANIC..., by corblimeylimey on Dec 1, 2007 21:40:46 GMT 1, I've been fortunate to buy alot of Banksy from POW but do the 4 soup cans, the radar rat and all the others (including one original ) really beat the radiance and depth of my Eine, PEOPLEAERHAPPIERHERE. ? Art is all about the pleasure it gives you. I bought a beautiful scultpure by Arthur Dooley Dec'd for £200 many years ago. He's not really recognised but the piece is a stand out in my collection. Money is not what it is alll about.
That was what I was trying to say. Personally I'd take Banksy over Eine regardless of monetary value, I also rate my AMP and Blek pieces just as high too.
I've been fortunate to buy alot of Banksy from POW but do the 4 soup cans, the radar rat and all the others (including one original ) really beat the radiance and depth of my Eine, PEOPLEAERHAPPIERHERE. ? Art is all about the pleasure it gives you. I bought a beautiful scultpure by Arthur Dooley Dec'd for £200 many years ago. He's not really recognised but the piece is a stand out in my collection. Money is not what it is alll about. That was what I was trying to say. Personally I'd take Banksy over Eine regardless of monetary value, I also rate my AMP and Blek pieces just as high too. |
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Hugs
New Member
Posts • 561
Likes • 85
March 2007
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THE TITANIC..., by Hugs on Dec 2, 2007 1:29:06 GMT 1, Buy what floats your boat and you'll never go wrong.
See what i did there.
Buy what floats your boat and you'll never go wrong.
See what i did there.
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THE TITANIC..., by darjeeling on Dec 2, 2007 6:28:28 GMT 1, if I were thinking about the money I'd have sold them in June or July this year when the whole collection (not inc Trolleys) could have got about £4000 opposed to £3000 today.
But were you really thinking your collection would be worth £1000 less now than it was then? Or were you one of the folks that thought prices couldn't go down? And what if say you also scored a radar rat or rude copper or something for cheap and then your collection were worth a more life changing £50000 and you knew/thought it would be worth £25000 in the future? Then what do you do
It can get tricky. I buy what I like for sure - but I also have more important needs in my life than prints and no great fortunes to fall back on. So it's something I keep in mind.
That said the overload of flippers/dealers pretending to be 'galleries' is quite annoying. But their day will come.
if I were thinking about the money I'd have sold them in June or July this year when the whole collection (not inc Trolleys) could have got about £4000 opposed to £3000 today. But were you really thinking your collection would be worth £1000 less now than it was then? Or were you one of the folks that thought prices couldn't go down? And what if say you also scored a radar rat or rude copper or something for cheap and then your collection were worth a more life changing £50000 and you knew/thought it would be worth £25000 in the future? Then what do you do It can get tricky. I buy what I like for sure - but I also have more important needs in my life than prints and no great fortunes to fall back on. So it's something I keep in mind. That said the overload of flippers/dealers pretending to be 'galleries' is quite annoying. But their day will come. |
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brut
New Member
Posts • 448
Likes • 77
January 2006
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THE TITANIC..., by brut on Dec 2, 2007 11:02:14 GMT 1, I own 15 banksy prints & about 20 "other" prints by various artists & i paid asking price from pow & other print houses for them so to be honest i don't care what they are worth.They are all hanging on my walls & not in art folders.
I may feel different if i paid £1000 for a unsigned banksy print & have been watching the value slide.
It does piss me off a bit that i am not able to get any off the new banksy releases due to the amount off flippers sitting at their pc's all day & refreshing.
If the ship does sink then i am going to have my lifeboat ready to rescue all the prints i have been unable to get before they get wet.
Please note that there will be no need for me to rescue any of the flippers in my lifeboat as we all know that flipper is a dolphin.
I own 15 banksy prints & about 20 "other" prints by various artists & i paid asking price from pow & other print houses for them so to be honest i don't care what they are worth.They are all hanging on my walls & not in art folders. I may feel different if i paid £1000 for a unsigned banksy print & have been watching the value slide. It does piss me off a bit that i am not able to get any off the new banksy releases due to the amount off flippers sitting at their pc's all day & refreshing. If the ship does sink then i am going to have my lifeboat ready to rescue all the prints i have been unable to get before they get wet. Please note that there will be no need for me to rescue any of the flippers in my lifeboat as we all know that flipper is a dolphin. |
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THE TITANIC..., by fartofthestate on Dec 2, 2007 11:13:12 GMT 1, Almost all of these arm chair art dealers and flippers are in it for the short term buck, buy today and sell for double tomorrow. The don't understand the long term investment side of things. This has created a glut of art work on the secondary market, along with a whole heap of crap from over night artists.
In 5 years Micalleff and Banksy works will be quite rare, and going for much much more than they are now. Production of prints will slow to a standstill in the next 6 months for these ''bigger'' artists as people like Laz try to protect their investments and cement their artists for the long run.
Remember the price rise 6 months ago? People who have been in this game for years get used to market trends, the yearly rises and falls, if your not used to seeing small drops in prices now and again you'll no doubt panic and sell some of your collection forcing the prices y.t lower, leaving serious investors to mop up your panic selling cut price art.
Banksy and AM are in it for the long run, 20 years from now they will still be in it and prices will be out of most peoples league .
Almost all of these arm chair art dealers and flippers are in it for the short term buck, buy today and sell for double tomorrow. The don't understand the long term investment side of things. This has created a glut of art work on the secondary market, along with a whole heap of crap from over night artists.
In 5 years Micalleff and Banksy works will be quite rare, and going for much much more than they are now. Production of prints will slow to a standstill in the next 6 months for these ''bigger'' artists as people like Laz try to protect their investments and cement their artists for the long run.
Remember the price rise 6 months ago? People who have been in this game for years get used to market trends, the yearly rises and falls, if your not used to seeing small drops in prices now and again you'll no doubt panic and sell some of your collection forcing the prices y.t lower, leaving serious investors to mop up your panic selling cut price art.
Banksy and AM are in it for the long run, 20 years from now they will still be in it and prices will be out of most peoples league .
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mred
New Member
Posts • 725
Likes • 1
July 2006
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THE TITANIC..., by mred on Dec 2, 2007 11:15:08 GMT 1, Great post Brut, if you save too many prints I can always take some to a safe harbour to avoid overloading your lifeboat. I know you should not be picky but I would love to grab a London TMA from one of those flippers!!!! 
Great post Brut, if you save too many prints I can always take some to a safe harbour to avoid overloading your lifeboat. I know you should not be picky but I would love to grab a London TMA from one of those flippers!!!! |
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THE TITANIC..., by lesbianwednesdays on Dec 2, 2007 12:12:53 GMT 1, surely this cliche'd sinking ship metaphor is done now?
the way i see it, i have paid top dollar for some prints; adam neate, micallef and i paid good money for a signed banksy too. however, the signed banksy more than doubled in value and was being displaced to another part of the house, so i sold it.
the money from that went towards the neate and some towards the micallef so in spite of paying just over 2 grand on one and just under 2 grand on the other, i could afford it and any loss (which there is currently about £500 on the neate and more or less the same on the micallef) is academic as far as i'm concerned. both are in editions of less than 100 and both are my absolute favourite works by those respective artists, both of whom i've seen enough of their work to know what they are about.
my laboured point is despite the substantial monetery loss involved i feel i have gained, substantially by having this art in my life.
i could afford the money at the time, i don't need to sell, i don't want to sell so it is of little consequence for me.
those that have spent what they cannot afford in the same way would be in big trouble should the overspend need accounting for. that is where any problems will be.
this is a bit of a monster of our own creation, if secondary prices weren't being paid - which is currently the situation - then they would have to drop until they were met. this is what we are seeing right now.
i would be intrigued to see some year on year data for prices, within each year there are many peaks and troughs but as long as the overall appreciation is a slow and steady affair than it bodes well. sharp increases are often followed by equally swift drops.
no matter how much you like something, think it is a dead cert or even a complete bargain, do not buy what you can't afford. my advice is assume it will be worthless in a year when deciding if you really want it and if you can really afford it.
stick to that and i don't think you will go too far wrong
*sorry for the ramble*
surely this cliche'd sinking ship metaphor is done now? the way i see it, i have paid top dollar for some prints; adam neate, micallef and i paid good money for a signed banksy too. however, the signed banksy more than doubled in value and was being displaced to another part of the house, so i sold it. the money from that went towards the neate and some towards the micallef so in spite of paying just over 2 grand on one and just under 2 grand on the other, i could afford it and any loss (which there is currently about £500 on the neate and more or less the same on the micallef) is academic as far as i'm concerned. both are in editions of less than 100 and both are my absolute favourite works by those respective artists, both of whom i've seen enough of their work to know what they are about. my laboured point is despite the substantial monetery loss involved i feel i have gained, substantially by having this art in my life. i could afford the money at the time, i don't need to sell, i don't want to sell so it is of little consequence for me. those that have spent what they cannot afford in the same way would be in big trouble should the overspend need accounting for. that is where any problems will be. this is a bit of a monster of our own creation, if secondary prices weren't being paid - which is currently the situation - then they would have to drop until they were met. this is what we are seeing right now. i would be intrigued to see some year on year data for prices, within each year there are many peaks and troughs but as long as the overall appreciation is a slow and steady affair than it bodes well. sharp increases are often followed by equally swift drops. no matter how much you like something, think it is a dead cert or even a complete bargain, do not buy what you can't afford. my advice is assume it will be worthless in a year when deciding if you really want it and if you can really afford it. stick to that and i don't think you will go too far wrong *sorry for the ramble* |
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