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General Wondering..., by joannasaurus allan on Oct 15, 2007 9:50:45 GMT 1, Hi everyone. This might be a totally daft question, and sorry if it has been posted before, but I was just wondering, how do you know the seller of many signed prints havent changed the number on them and forged a signature, especially on ebay? I see a lot of them that say they are signed/numbered in pencil?? Does the stamp seal the writing or would it be possible to change? Thanks
Hi everyone. This might be a totally daft question, and sorry if it has been posted before, but I was just wondering, how do you know the seller of many signed prints havent changed the number on them and forged a signature, especially on ebay? I see a lot of them that say they are signed/numbered in pencil?? Does the stamp seal the writing or would it be possible to change? Thanks
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General Wondering..., by absyrd on Oct 15, 2007 9:55:12 GMT 1, It is possible.
The best thing you can do is email POW or whoever else the printmaker is that keeps records and try to match the original owner name on the receipt offered to that print number.
It is possible.
The best thing you can do is email POW or whoever else the printmaker is that keeps records and try to match the original owner name on the receipt offered to that print number.
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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General Wondering..., by pezlow on Oct 15, 2007 9:56:26 GMT 1, Banksy has signed some stuff in pen over the years although there is no hard and fast rule for him.
Banksy has signed some stuff in pen over the years although there is no hard and fast rule for him.
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General Wondering..., by joannasaurus allan on Oct 15, 2007 9:59:50 GMT 1, Ok thanks guys. How awful that someone could deface a print from an already limited edition to make a fast buck though. Grrr!
Ok thanks guys. How awful that someone could deface a print from an already limited edition to make a fast buck though. Grrr!
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General Wondering..., by mwjm0 on Oct 15, 2007 10:02:42 GMT 1, Ok thanks guys. How awful that someone could deface a print from an already limited edition to make a fast buck though. Grrr!
who has?
Ok thanks guys. How awful that someone could deface a print from an already limited edition to make a fast buck though. Grrr! who has? |
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General Wondering..., by absyrd on Oct 15, 2007 10:02:45 GMT 1, Oh... and the "stamp" is just an embossing. This could also be faked pretty easily.
You just have to get all your ducks in a row to ensure your safety when buying online.
Does the seller have good feedback? Are the pics consistent? Does he offer an original receipt or other proof of chain of ownership (provenance)? Does the number match the receipt? And on and on until you start to feel comfy...
Oh... and the "stamp" is just an embossing. This could also be faked pretty easily.
You just have to get all your ducks in a row to ensure your safety when buying online.
Does the seller have good feedback? Are the pics consistent? Does he offer an original receipt or other proof of chain of ownership (provenance)? Does the number match the receipt? And on and on until you start to feel comfy...
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General Wondering..., by joannasaurus allan on Oct 15, 2007 10:15:45 GMT 1, Sorry I just meant someone could do that. I thought POW would make it a lot harder to tamper with them given their value and how sought after they are. Thanks though i'll be on my guard now.
Sorry I just meant someone could do that. I thought POW would make it a lot harder to tamper with them given their value and how sought after they are. Thanks though i'll be on my guard now.
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General Wondering..., by absyrd on Oct 15, 2007 10:24:12 GMT 1, You can't really do anything more than that, though. Nor would anyone really want to.
You can't really do anything more than that, though. Nor would anyone really want to.
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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General Wondering..., by pezlow on Oct 15, 2007 10:26:56 GMT 1, Artists sign in pencil because pencil is one of the most lasting mediums known to art. Check out Da Vinci's pencil drawings from 500 years ago - they are still fresh as a daisy. For that reason alone POW number in pencil. I remember having a long discussion about this with someone from POW at last years ghetto (possibly Dora).
Artists sign in pencil because pencil is one of the most lasting mediums known to art. Check out Da Vinci's pencil drawings from 500 years ago - they are still fresh as a daisy. For that reason alone POW number in pencil. I remember having a long discussion about this with someone from POW at last years ghetto (possibly Dora).
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General Wondering..., by jonpud on Oct 15, 2007 10:31:57 GMT 1, I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy!
There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok!
I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy!
There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok!
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General Wondering..., by absyrd on Oct 15, 2007 10:32:45 GMT 1, I've been told that pencil also happens to be the easiest medium to detect authenticity by, especially through glass. Plus... as Pez said... artists have been using pencil forever to sign work, so really it could just come down to it being customary.
I've been told that pencil also happens to be the easiest medium to detect authenticity by, especially through glass. Plus... as Pez said... artists have been using pencil forever to sign work, so really it could just come down to it being customary.
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General Wondering..., by insite on Oct 15, 2007 10:52:18 GMT 1, I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy! There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok!
I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up.
I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy! There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok! I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. |
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General Wondering..., by jonpud on Oct 15, 2007 11:28:01 GMT 1, I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy! There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok! I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up.
I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!? 
I am still unaware of anyone who has ever bought a 'fake' or forged POW signed Banksy! There have been some pretty awful faked signatures on some other stuff (A signed protest board being the best example) but as long as you do a little homework you should be ok! I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!? |
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General Wondering..., by numusic on Oct 15, 2007 11:35:13 GMT 1, I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!?
No, the confirmed fake came from a US ebay seller which was on a different paper that contained a watermark and a faked stamp. The UK buyer noticed something was off after discussing it on the oef (old ebay forum), he sent it to POW who confirmed it was a fake. Not sure what the outcome of this was.
I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!? No, the confirmed fake came from a US ebay seller which was on a different paper that contained a watermark and a faked stamp. The UK buyer noticed something was off after discussing it on the oef (old ebay forum), he sent it to POW who confirmed it was a fake. Not sure what the outcome of this was. |
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General Wondering..., by insite on Oct 15, 2007 11:38:38 GMT 1, I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!?
No, wasn't you mate something to do with the paper/watermark.
(edit) Nu's got a better memory
I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!? No, wasn't you mate something to do with the paper/watermark. (edit) Nu's got a better memory |
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General Wondering..., by johnas on Oct 15, 2007 11:44:26 GMT 1, this was the actual thread:
banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1177946617&page=1
Eine confirms on page 3 that it's fake:
Dear All
Just got this reply back from Ben at POW - bad news, but thanks for all of your help.
"Hi Andrew
Its here safely and unfortunately it is a fake, we are trying to find out some more information about it, so would like to keep it for a while. If you need it back just let me know and I will make sure it gets back to you.
Sorry about the bad news,
ben"
this was the actual thread: banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1177946617&page=1Eine confirms on page 3 that it's fake: Dear All Just got this reply back from Ben at POW - bad news, but thanks for all of your help. "Hi Andrew Its here safely and unfortunately it is a fake, we are trying to find out some more information about it, so would like to keep it for a while. If you need it back just let me know and I will make sure it gets back to you. Sorry about the bad news, ben" |
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Curley
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,012
Likes โข 7
June 2006
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General Wondering..., by Curley on Oct 15, 2007 11:50:13 GMT 1, I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!?
Sounds similar to the wrongly numbered GWB last year... this has happened far too many times for my liking
I remember a thread from a few months back, someone sent a print to POW at their request think it was a rat and there was something dodgy about it but I can't find the thread or remember the details. I seem to remember comments about it being the first confirmed forgery maybe someone else can dig it up. I can't remember if I put a post up regarding this but I did have a problem with a signed 'Love Rat' I bought. To cut a long story short POW's records were not the best in the early days, the print in question was bought from the shop but they failed to record the sale, the next person who bought one got the same number issued to them (they were signed un-numbered, then numbered as they sold!) Anyway I started off with 51/150 and Dora (always really helpful) re-numbered mine with a number not issued so I ended up with 14*/150 and now registered in my name!! Does this ring a bell!? Sounds similar to the wrongly numbered GWB last year... this has happened far too many times for my liking |
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General Wondering..., by jonpud on Oct 15, 2007 12:23:52 GMT 1, Sadly their systems were pretty crap back then! Think they mostly got it right but the odd one slipped through, according to the Fine Arts Guild they state that the print should have been destroyed and a completely new one issued, but I don't think POW are members!!
Anyway, we were talking about a picture selling for around ยฃ100 at the time, who was to know it would be worth 5k a couple of years later!?
Sadly their systems were pretty crap back then! Think they mostly got it right but the odd one slipped through, according to the Fine Arts Guild they state that the print should have been destroyed and a completely new one issued, but I don't think POW are members!!
Anyway, we were talking about a picture selling for around ยฃ100 at the time, who was to know it would be worth 5k a couple of years later!?
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