Urban Art Association

been done recently fleepea and the thread got locked

banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1190251915&page=1

J

i have to say this pretty fucking nasty thing to start doing...there will be times when people have to sell things end of..if you can distinguish between someone who is selling out of necessity or wanting to buy another piece or wanting to make a quick buck..than you're a better man than me

rock n' roll deal with it

I got a great rush when I scored a GIWTBB fully expecting that my chances were going to be pretty slim. The fact that you're competing with huge numbers of people that are purchasing purely to turn a profit makes me all the more happy when I score something I love. It's all in the game y'all.

Well said carlito.
fleapod dude, what are you going to do when you have perhaps overstretched yourself financially in order to buy a piece you especially like or have to have? Sometimes things have to give and the only option might be to sell a few things to balance the books. I'm sure you'd not want to be a victim of some witch hunt fleapoo, when all you're trying to do is not get into too much debt. Who are we to question people's motives anyway? Capitalism is alive and well. I'd suggest you deal with it.
So just let it lie fleapea or I'll set BONGO on you with his toffee hammer. You wouldn't like him when he's angry. ;D Have a +1 from me to balance your books for now.

This ‘flipping’ debate has surfaced time and time again and will no doubt never be resolved. I now have a compulsion to say my two penneth’s worth. I hate talking about art and money at the same time but….

When is it acceptable to sell a print for more that you paid for it? You know what, it's a tough call and regardless ofthe fact I've been buying art for that couple of years, my circumstances, taste, etc. change, I've resisted selling anything for ages because of exactly the same thing; the fear of what people might think.

The thing is, 'needs must' and I believe most people on here might well be in the same boat or have been at various stages of collecting their art. The secondary market exists and I for one am glad it does.

As an avid record collector I know all too well that my collection wouldn't be half what it is without the ability to buy and trade second hand. Sometimes I get lucky with a bargain, others I pay through the nose. It's my choice what I buy and what I sell. And whoever may cast that first stone then it so be it.

I love the thrill of the chase whether it's a print or slab of vinyl. It's a game but with the stakes raised because money is involved. I might not get around to playing every record I buy so I may decide to sell a few if needs must. With the art scene the stakes are raised further because the costs are often multiplied tenfold. In the same way, if I don't think I'll get around to framing a print, I might well sell it at some point at either current market value or just below depending on who is buying and how much debt I'm might be in. I haven’t sold anything yet but will very much have to soon. My choice.

Conversely, I would never expect someone to sell me City Girl 150 (a print I have wanted for ages and my favourite print) at cost but I'd rather wait and chase a bargain/trade or whatever than pay current market value. Likewise, if I miss out on tickets to a gig, I'll do what I can to avoid having to pay touts to get there. But I won't cut my nose off to spite my face and rarely I will pay over the odds if necessary. Again my choice.

It follows that sometimes, the sale of a print or three can be the key to getting hold of an original so it would make complete sense to me to sell whatever I wanted to sell. Likewise, the sacrifice of a particularly special print for the gain of something even more special is a perfectly logical thing to do.

To those who have been around here a lot longer than me this might seem like a naive ramble (it is ) but I for one am a little tired of standing by feeling guilty for needing to sell some art in order to pay for other purchases, (or indeed the car service, impending nappies etc.) The snidey comments on a well respected member selling a print and full out attacks on blatant flippers often seems to get blurred.

There are no rules to say where the line between flipping and 'genuinely' having to sell is drawn. But as long as the market exists, people will buy and sell prints; whether they are flippers, forum members, lurkers, baggers, fuckwits, mates, enemies, my gran, your gran, galleries or artists themselves. What can we do? For the love of art ACCEPT IT! Take the knocks as Carlito and hundreds of others recently did and enjoy the highs.

I was as sickened as everyone else to see those pics of the family of people (hi there if you’re reading this) who walked away fully loaded up after the Micallef Laz fiasco. But they did what they did because they could. If it had been managed properly and more people had got there before they arrived the story might have been different. By virtue of our collective existence we feed into this whole situation. We shouldn’t underestimate the power and influence this and the light side forum has on the market.

Additionally, why should anyone assume our art should necessarily sell for more than what they paid for it? Better surely to acknowledge that some prices will go up and others drop through the floor. We have seen an unsustainable rise in prices almost across the board over the last year(?) which now appears to be righting itself. The bigger hitters maintaining interest and therefore prices whilst others are falling off the map. The fun thing is the monetary value of those that fall off the map could well return at any time as fashion and tastes change. This happens all the time in the music collecting scene.

I will readily admit that I for one have occasionally been swept along and blindly bought art because it was available, there's a buzz around it, visa card is sitting there smiling, couple of pints etc. It happens. That buzz is part of the appeal but I've had to learn to be more selective and not get swept along. The recent Swoon print really tested me for example as I loved the image, it was hot off the press, proper buzz, very ‘framable’, everyone raving 3000(?) thread hits...........Never been great at self discipline but I simply cannot afford it right now. I'm much more selective about buying what I really like with a view to framing it and putting it up on a wall. It's taken me a long time to get here though.

Rather than this putting the whole issue to rest as I wallow in delusions of grandeur I feel it’s something that should, when we have the time and energy, debate sensibly. In the meantime I'll be sorting through some records and prints to sell with much less guilt that when I started writing this post.

Thanks c. Just having a little lie down. ;D

+1 from me too scavos
and another +1 every time I read this piece......you could post it week after week.
A fair reply to the age old and repeating question.
A question I'm flipping tired of....lets move on

+1 for telling us you're negging..thats more balls than most show...but would also like to know your thoughts rather than just that

Well said scavos, I myself have recently sold my Turin Scam which I bought direct from SOS in March and sold for the going rate, I didn't feel good about it (I really would have liked to keep it) but the money needed to be raised, as I couldn't really afford the AMP canvas that I'd just bought. Also at the beginning of the year I sold a print very quickly after purchase as I knew straight away when I opened it that I didn't want to keep it (it just didn't appeal).

Sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do, it could be to raise money for some other art or to fill a unexpected hole in your finances or what ever. I do understand why it happens particularly having recently found myself in that position.

;D ;D ;D