ohmygosh
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 229
๐๐ป 0
December 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by ohmygosh on May 7, 2007 8:57:06 GMT 1, I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...?
Discuss...
I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...?
Discuss...
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by saajid22 on May 7, 2007 9:13:15 GMT 1, i don't think that having a print numbered number 50 would make it more valuable. unless you have a very low number or an artist proof it is unlikely to make any difference.
I read on a previous thead that the reason low number prints were considered more valuable is that the quality was considered better, as the run numbers went higher the prints could lose some of the sharpness. modern printing techniques have eliminated this, so imo there is no real need for there being a difference in price.
i don't think that having a print numbered number 50 would make it more valuable. unless you have a very low number or an artist proof it is unlikely to make any difference.
I read on a previous thead that the reason low number prints were considered more valuable is that the quality was considered better, as the run numbers went higher the prints could lose some of the sharpness. modern printing techniques have eliminated this, so imo there is no real need for there being a difference in price.
|
|
lesroy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,281
๐๐ป 2
July 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by lesroy on May 7, 2007 9:20:25 GMT 1, I agree with saaj,
The only prints people tend to spend more on are the single figure numbers, 1 obviously being in demand because its the very first and quite often held onto by the artist.
Banksy's BME number 2 sold for a much higher price than the others on the bay recently for example.
However, if I happened to have 10 prints, all numbered number 50 and I liked your print, I would probably pay a little more to have yours too! 
I agree with saaj, The only prints people tend to spend more on are the single figure numbers, 1 obviously being in demand because its the very first and quite often held onto by the artist. Banksy's BME number 2 sold for a much higher price than the others on the bay recently for example. However, if I happened to have 10 prints, all numbered number 50 and I liked your print, I would probably pay a little more to have yours too! |
|
Curley
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,012
๐๐ป 7
June 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by Curley on May 7, 2007 9:41:03 GMT 1, i don't think that having a print numbered number 50 would make it more valuable. unless you have a very low number or an artist proof it is unlikely to make any difference. I read on a previous thead that the reason low number prints were considered more valuable is that the quality was considered better, as the run numbers went higher the prints could lose some of the sharpness. modern printing techniques have eliminated this, so imo there is no real need for there being a difference in price.
This has been discussed here recently. It makes no difference at all as there is no guarantee that prints are numbered in the order they are actually printed.
An artist on this site backed this up by saying that the prints end up everywhere during the printing process and would be impossible to keep them in the the order they are pulled and be numbered as such.
i hope that helps
i don't think that having a print numbered number 50 would make it more valuable. unless you have a very low number or an artist proof it is unlikely to make any difference. I read on a previous thead that the reason low number prints were considered more valuable is that the quality was considered better, as the run numbers went higher the prints could lose some of the sharpness. modern printing techniques have eliminated this, so imo there is no real need for there being a difference in price. This has been discussed here recently. It makes no difference at all as there is no guarantee that prints are numbered in the order they are actually printed. An artist on this site backed this up by saying that the prints end up everywhere during the printing process and would be impossible to keep them in the the order they are pulled and be numbered as such. i hope that helps |
|
romanywg
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,093
๐๐ป 36
October 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by romanywg on May 7, 2007 10:12:00 GMT 1, I sold a James Cauty A/P just a few days ago and thensomeone else sold another print exactly the same but numbered 18/35 went for almost twice as much!
I sold a James Cauty A/P just a few days ago and thensomeone else sold another print exactly the same but numbered 18/35 went for almost twice as much!
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by numusic on May 7, 2007 10:51:18 GMT 1, I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...? Discuss...
Nope.. and traditionally in the print market, AP's and PP's are usually priced lower than those in the main run. This doesn't seem to be the case with "street" art... not sure why. I was recently offerred a Sol Lewitt print for 5k or an AP of the same print for 4k...
Are we just ignorant of how things have worked ? maybe we've defined our own terms based on a false notion of "cool", coming from a culture of "white labels" , limited edition sneakers and skateboards etc ?
Will this higher priced AP and low numbered fetish transfer to the bigger picture ? or are we being suckered by "sales" people who have learnt their trade through being exposed to or involved in "youth culture"... Is it supply and demand or demand and supply..
discuss
I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...? Discuss... Nope.. and traditionally in the print market, AP's and PP's are usually priced lower than those in the main run. This doesn't seem to be the case with "street" art... not sure why. I was recently offerred a Sol Lewitt print for 5k or an AP of the same print for 4k... Are we just ignorant of how things have worked ? maybe we've defined our own terms based on a false notion of "cool", coming from a culture of "white labels" , limited edition sneakers and skateboards etc ? Will this higher priced AP and low numbered fetish transfer to the bigger picture ? or are we being suckered by "sales" people who have learnt their trade through being exposed to or involved in "youth culture"... Is it supply and demand or demand and supply.. discuss |
|
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 7, 2007 11:30:14 GMT 1, APs and PPs do generally attract a higher price as there are fewer of them (you seemed to be unlucky romanywg) also it would be nice to have a very low numbered print too, but apart from low single numbers or number 1 I can't see it affecting price much.
It all comes down to whether someone's prepared to pay, personally I wouldn't, its nice having a number you like I've got prints with numbers 321, 15, 5, 4, 2, & an AP but I didn't pay anymore for them.
APs and PPs do generally attract a higher price as there are fewer of them (you seemed to be unlucky romanywg) also it would be nice to have a very low numbered print too, but apart from low single numbers or number 1 I can't see it affecting price much.
It all comes down to whether someone's prepared to pay, personally I wouldn't, its nice having a number you like I've got prints with numbers 321, 15, 5, 4, 2, & an AP but I didn't pay anymore for them.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by arcam on May 7, 2007 11:39:58 GMT 1, I don't think it makes much difference.
I don't think it makes much difference.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by finsburyparkranger on May 7, 2007 16:22:18 GMT 1, If this Market is paying More for AP's then this devalue's the edition. So knowing how many prints in the 'limited run' is not enough information to assess if the price is fair in relation to the strengh of the art. We now need to know how many AP's and PP'ss also available. Shame really. The next trick will be making a limited edition, actually limited to the edition, with a garentee of no AP's or PP's. Of course ... they will cost three times more. ;
If this Market is paying More for AP's then this devalue's the edition. So knowing how many prints in the 'limited run' is not enough information to assess if the price is fair in relation to the strengh of the art. We now need to know how many AP's and PP'ss also available. Shame really. The next trick will be making a limited edition, actually limited to the edition, with a garentee of no AP's or PP's. Of course ... they will cost three times more. ;
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 7, 2007 16:31:34 GMT 1, APs normally account for up to 10% of a run, and can demand 10-20% more money than the standard run.
As I have one of these, I'm keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP (very cheap at the moment).
APs normally account for up to 10% of a run, and can demand 10-20% more money than the standard run.
As I have one of these, I'm keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP (very cheap at the moment).
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by numusic on May 7, 2007 16:56:49 GMT 1, APs normally account for up to 10% of a run, and can demand 10-20% more money than the standard run. As I have one of these, I'm keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP (very cheap at the moment).
Traditionally AP's make 10-20% LESS than the standard run. It's a new phenomenon, and restricted to people dealing in this market. Strange..
APs normally account for up to 10% of a run, and can demand 10-20% more money than the standard run. As I have one of these, I'm keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP (very cheap at the moment). Traditionally AP's make 10-20% LESS than the standard run. It's a new phenomenon, and restricted to people dealing in this market. Strange.. |
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by arcam on May 7, 2007 17:00:36 GMT 1, Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's?
Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's?
|
|
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 7, 2007 17:10:29 GMT 1, Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's?
Artist Proofs & Printers Proofs
Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's? Artist Proofs & Printers Proofs |
|
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by numusic on May 7, 2007 17:35:46 GMT 1, Traditionally AP's make 10-20% LESS than the standard run. It's a new phenomenon, and restricted to people dealing in this market. Strange.. Not what I've heard from gallery owners and info on websites, why should they go for less? maybe in the past they did but not now and not just in the street art sector.
Hmmm, must just be in the old school traditional art market that they're offered for less.. I was offered one for 1k less just this week.
Presumably they go for less as it's not usually the same as the finished article and therefor not as good as the final proof in the eyes of the artist.
Traditionally AP's make 10-20% LESS than the standard run. It's a new phenomenon, and restricted to people dealing in this market. Strange.. Not what I've heard from gallery owners and info on websites, why should they go for less? maybe in the past they did but not now and not just in the street art sector. Hmmm, must just be in the old school traditional art market that they're offered for less.. I was offered one for 1k less just this week. Presumably they go for less as it's not usually the same as the finished article and therefor not as good as the final proof in the eyes of the artist. |
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 7, 2007 17:46:03 GMT 1, Check out my links nu, lots of trad art there. It used to apply especially in the photographic world, when the APs were just poor 'seconds' in the run up to getting exposure etc right before the main set. It doesn't mean that anymore, now it means a smaller and more exclusive part of the run which is usually given to the artist, and therefore has extra kudos.
Check out my links nu, lots of trad art there. It used to apply especially in the photographic world, when the APs were just poor 'seconds' in the run up to getting exposure etc right before the main set. It doesn't mean that anymore, now it means a smaller and more exclusive part of the run which is usually given to the artist, and therefore has extra kudos.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by arcam on May 7, 2007 18:33:27 GMT 1, Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's? Artist Proofs & Printers Proofs
Cheers CBL.
Sorry for the dump question but what are AP and PP's? Artist Proofs & Printers Proofs Cheers CBL. |
|
Run Pig Run
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,437
๐๐ป 9
January 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by Run Pig Run on May 7, 2007 18:36:07 GMT 1, I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...? Discuss...
I would prefer to have a even number but I wouldn't pay more for it.
I have a DOLK print which is 50/250. Would this make the print more valuable? or more valuable than a higher up un-even number...? Discuss... I would prefer to have a even number but I wouldn't pay more for it. |
|
BK83
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,604
๐๐ป 10
October 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by BK83 on May 10, 2007 23:19:27 GMT 1, Agree with CBL here -- more often than not this idea that the A/P P/P are worth more really is only pertaining to the urban/streetart genre .. I think it will be interesting to see this idea filter into other aspects of the art world as the new wave of buyers move on from urban/streetartists into more established modern artists..... will be cool to watch.
Agree with CBL here -- more often than not this idea that the A/P P/P are worth more really is only pertaining to the urban/streetart genre .. I think it will be interesting to see this idea filter into other aspects of the art world as the new wave of buyers move on from urban/streetartists into more established modern artists..... will be cool to watch.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 11, 2007 10:16:35 GMT 1, Agree with CBL here -- more often than not this idea that the A/P P/P are worth more really is only pertaining to the urban/streetart genre .. I think it will be interesting to see this idea filter into other aspects of the art world as the new wave of buyers move on from urban/streetartists into more established modern artists..... will be cool to watch.
Actually that not what I was saying, check out the links I posted which prove all sorts of art have higher prices for APs.
Agree with CBL here -- more often than not this idea that the A/P P/P are worth more really is only pertaining to the urban/streetart genre .. I think it will be interesting to see this idea filter into other aspects of the art world as the new wave of buyers move on from urban/streetartists into more established modern artists..... will be cool to watch. Actually that not what I was saying, check out the links I posted which prove all sorts of art have higher prices for APs. |
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 11, 2007 18:00:36 GMT 1, O.K. here's a case in point, that I brought up in an earlier post.
I was keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP and as I've got one was interested to see what it went for. A few days ago it had a low price it's now finally sold for ยฃ510, even when there are others available (standard numbered) for BIN of ยฃ375 & ยฃ390.
So obviously some people are prepared to pay more for APs, I was lucky in that I received mine for the same price direct from BRP due to their good customer service after a mix up 
O.K. here's a case in point, that I brought up in an earlier post. I was keeping an eye on the progress of Blek Le Rat MWWTW 190110404111 as it's an AP and as I've got one was interested to see what it went for. A few days ago it had a low price it's now finally sold for ยฃ510, even when there are others available (standard numbered) for BIN of ยฃ375 & ยฃ390. So obviously some people are prepared to pay more for APs, I was lucky in that I received mine for the same price direct from BRP due to their good customer service after a mix up |
|
Strange Al
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,293
๐๐ป 64
October 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by Strange Al on May 11, 2007 18:16:57 GMT 1, CBL - I do think the Blek price is very interesting; particularly, as a numbered version sold on Ebay yesterday for under ยฃ270. That's a huge difference in price.
I have no doubt that buyers in the current street art market seem to be willing to pay more for APs and PPs. As the market determines the value of the art, it would seem that APs and PPs therefore currently have more value.
However, I've outlined in another thread the historical significance of the print terminology and how the street art screenprinters seem use the terminology both incorrectly and inconsistently. There really is no reason why APs or PPs in the classical sense of the terms should be worth any more than the numbered part of the edition. Though, that's kind of irrelevant now I guess.
CBL - I do think the Blek price is very interesting; particularly, as a numbered version sold on Ebay yesterday for under ยฃ270. That's a huge difference in price.
I have no doubt that buyers in the current street art market seem to be willing to pay more for APs and PPs. As the market determines the value of the art, it would seem that APs and PPs therefore currently have more value.
However, I've outlined in another thread the historical significance of the print terminology and how the street art screenprinters seem use the terminology both incorrectly and inconsistently. There really is no reason why APs or PPs in the classical sense of the terms should be worth any more than the numbered part of the edition. Though, that's kind of irrelevant now I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by Daniel Silk on May 11, 2007 18:28:06 GMT 1, It seems that friends of the artist or regular buyers get the chance of getting the AP's, so I think thats why people are willing to pay that bit more for them they can pretend they are a mate of Banksy ;D
If you cant get number 1 or an AP, I think people like a good round number like 50, 100, 150 depending on the run size I guess it just looks a bit better than some random number 
It seems that friends of the artist or regular buyers get the chance of getting the AP's, so I think thats why people are willing to pay that bit more for them they can pretend they are a mate of Banksy ;D If you cant get number 1 or an AP, I think people like a good round number like 50, 100, 150 depending on the run size I guess it just looks a bit better than some random number |
|
|
|
notitle
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 427
๐๐ป 0
October 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by notitle on May 11, 2007 18:55:05 GMT 1, i'm not fussed about number, but i'm happy to find any print including the number 4 as it's my lucky number.
i'm not fussed about number, but i'm happy to find any print including the number 4 as it's my lucky number.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 11, 2007 19:03:40 GMT 1, i'm not fussed about number, but i'm happy to find any print including the number 4 as it's my lucky number.
My lucky number too! Although it hasn't helped me win the lottery 
I was born on the 4th I've got one print numbered 4 and that's the Sainsburys Soup Can by Elliot, I've been lucky with a few other low numbers too, 1, 2, & 5.
i'm not fussed about number, but i'm happy to find any print including the number 4 as it's my lucky number. My lucky number too! Although it hasn't helped me win the lottery I was born on the 4th I've got one print numbered 4 and that's the Sainsburys Soup Can by Elliot, I've been lucky with a few other low numbers too, 1, 2, & 5. |
|
Strange Al
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,293
๐๐ป 64
October 2006
|
What influence does the print number have?, by Strange Al on May 11, 2007 19:40:20 GMT 1, CBL - I fully accept that street art printers are not the only ones using the terminology incorrectly and that this has somehow led to APs and PPs being worth more.
My point is that the terms have now taken on a multitude of meanings. Therefore, ascribing added value to a print simply because it's termed an PP or AP is misguided. Some printers will use the term AP in the traditional sense, i.e., a print kept separate from the numbered part of the edition which is for the artist to do with as they wish. Other printers simply seem to label any over-run prints as APs or PPs, in the hope to make some additional cash. Many now seem to label "trial proofs" (which can be very different from the actual numbered edition) as APs. I can totally see why an AP, which is in fact a Trial Proof, may be worth more or less than the numbered edition. Though, why should a overrun print labeled an AP by the printer be worth any more?
As I said in my other post, I think in the current market it makes no difference. If people are willing to pay more, then they're worth more. Though, my feeling is people are paying extra without any real consideration of what the terminology actually means in respect of the print they're buying.
CBL - I fully accept that street art printers are not the only ones using the terminology incorrectly and that this has somehow led to APs and PPs being worth more.
My point is that the terms have now taken on a multitude of meanings. Therefore, ascribing added value to a print simply because it's termed an PP or AP is misguided. Some printers will use the term AP in the traditional sense, i.e., a print kept separate from the numbered part of the edition which is for the artist to do with as they wish. Other printers simply seem to label any over-run prints as APs or PPs, in the hope to make some additional cash. Many now seem to label "trial proofs" (which can be very different from the actual numbered edition) as APs. I can totally see why an AP, which is in fact a Trial Proof, may be worth more or less than the numbered edition. Though, why should a overrun print labeled an AP by the printer be worth any more?
As I said in my other post, I think in the current market it makes no difference. If people are willing to pay more, then they're worth more. Though, my feeling is people are paying extra without any real consideration of what the terminology actually means in respect of the print they're buying.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 12, 2007 10:22:09 GMT 1, I agree with you jjoschi44 a trial proof AP, one which is say a different colour or something truly is rarer and probably more valuable.
Personally I'd pay more for a trial proof in a different colour (as long as it's not a very bad choice of colour) but I wouldn't pay more for an AP the same as the standard run, but other people are.
I agree with you jjoschi44 a trial proof AP, one which is say a different colour or something truly is rarer and probably more valuable.
Personally I'd pay more for a trial proof in a different colour (as long as it's not a very bad choice of colour) but I wouldn't pay more for an AP the same as the standard run, but other people are.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 12, 2007 14:52:44 GMT 1, People can have opinions on whether they'd personally pay more or not, but it's fact that people are paying more for APs and some artists are charging more for APs.
People can have opinions on whether they'd personally pay more or not, but it's fact that people are paying more for APs and some artists are charging more for APs.
|
|
|
|
What influence does the print number have?, by corblimeylimey on May 12, 2007 15:47:43 GMT 1, When I told Steve the guy who runs Exeter Eye Storm that I was given an AP (from BRP) he asked if I paid extra for it, when I told him I hadn't he said that's good (or you're lucky, something to that effect) as they normally go for 10 - 20% more. I think he knows what he's talking about, and the sales on ebay support that.
Also it's a bit misleading to tell people on this forum that they're not worth more, as someone may well go on and sell their AP for below what it could have got as they generally sell for more.
I'm not saying this for the fun of it, or to hype up the price of my one and only AP (which is not for sale and is framed) but to point out that whatever the history of APs is, they are now considered (rightly or wrongly) more sought after, rarer and people are putting their hands in their pockets and paying more for them.
I've said it before, I'm not one of them.
When I told Steve the guy who runs Exeter Eye Storm that I was given an AP (from BRP) he asked if I paid extra for it, when I told him I hadn't he said that's good (or you're lucky, something to that effect) as they normally go for 10 - 20% more. I think he knows what he's talking about, and the sales on ebay support that.
Also it's a bit misleading to tell people on this forum that they're not worth more, as someone may well go on and sell their AP for below what it could have got as they generally sell for more.
I'm not saying this for the fun of it, or to hype up the price of my one and only AP (which is not for sale and is framed) but to point out that whatever the history of APs is, they are now considered (rightly or wrongly) more sought after, rarer and people are putting their hands in their pockets and paying more for them.
I've said it before, I'm not one of them.
|
|
