weeble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,278
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April 2007
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Early unstamped prints, by weeble on May 4, 2007 15:15:42 GMT 1, Hi guys
Just wondered what you thought about buyng earlier prints which were unstamped by POW - most I've come across receipts are long gone. I really want to own some of these older ones but I'm worried about the surge of fakes that seem to be cropping up lately. Are these early prints efectively worthless now, unless there is a receipt of purchase?
Hi guys Just wondered what you thought about buyng earlier prints which were unstamped by POW - most I've come across receipts are long gone. I really want to own some of these older ones but I'm worried about the surge of fakes that seem to be cropping up lately. Are these early prints efectively worthless now, unless there is a receipt of purchase?
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Early unstamped prints, by beejoir1 on May 4, 2007 15:28:15 GMT 1, Theres no surge.
Theres no surge.
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RBK
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,925
๐๐ป 104
September 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by RBK on May 4, 2007 16:42:20 GMT 1, Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan.
Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan.
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hungrig
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 173
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May 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by hungrig on May 4, 2007 16:53:06 GMT 1, Hi guys Just wondered what you thought about buyng earlier prints which were unstamped by POW - most I've come across receipts are long gone. I really want to own some of these older ones but I'm worried about the surge of fakes that seem to be cropping up lately. Are these early prints efectively worthless now, unless there is a receipt of purchase?
weeble,
The current value of Banksy prints is a great incentive for forgers, and it is likely that we will see an increased number of convincing fakes. One of the key issues to consider when purchasing a Banksy print will therefore be whether it has provenance. It should be stressed that this applies to all Banksy prints (stamped and unstamped), but particularly the signed ones given their value.
Provenance is not restricted to a receipt from POW or one of the retailers that may have sold POW prints in the past (e.g. Selfridges, the shop at Tate Modern, ArtRepublic). However, it does require evidence tying the print back to its original source of POW.
For many prints, especially the older ones, there is likely to be a chain of custody. A particular print could have been sold and resold a few times before it ends up in your hands. If you can trace it back step-by-step to POW, then all is fine. There should also be documentary proof of each step (e.g. printouts of eBay sales).
Of course the last step will be the one to POW. POW has a fairly complete list of the original purchasers of its early Banksy prints, including the first, 'Rude Copper'. If you have the name of the person or shop you understand to be the original purchaser of a print, POW will be kind enough to confirm whether that name is consistent with its own records.
Notwithstanding the above, even without provenance, genuine Banksy prints are far from worthless. Interest in Banksy is such that there is a large market for them, and I suspect that will continue. Potential buyers will simply use their good judgement, gut instinct, or acquired knowledge and experience with Banksy prints when deciding whether or not to purchase such a print. However, such prints will be worth significantly less than identical ones with provenance.
Hi guys Just wondered what you thought about buyng earlier prints which were unstamped by POW - most I've come across receipts are long gone. I really want to own some of these older ones but I'm worried about the surge of fakes that seem to be cropping up lately. Are these early prints efectively worthless now, unless there is a receipt of purchase? weeble, The current value of Banksy prints is a great incentive for forgers, and it is likely that we will see an increased number of convincing fakes. One of the key issues to consider when purchasing a Banksy print will therefore be whether it has provenance. It should be stressed that this applies to all Banksy prints (stamped and unstamped), but particularly the signed ones given their value. Provenance is not restricted to a receipt from POW or one of the retailers that may have sold POW prints in the past (e.g. Selfridges, the shop at Tate Modern, ArtRepublic). However, it does require evidence tying the print back to its original source of POW. For many prints, especially the older ones, there is likely to be a chain of custody. A particular print could have been sold and resold a few times before it ends up in your hands. If you can trace it back step-by-step to POW, then all is fine. There should also be documentary proof of each step (e.g. printouts of eBay sales). Of course the last step will be the one to POW. POW has a fairly complete list of the original purchasers of its early Banksy prints, including the first, 'Rude Copper'. If you have the name of the person or shop you understand to be the original purchaser of a print, POW will be kind enough to confirm whether that name is consistent with its own records. Notwithstanding the above, even without provenance, genuine Banksy prints are far from worthless. Interest in Banksy is such that there is a large market for them, and I suspect that will continue. Potential buyers will simply use their good judgement, gut instinct, or acquired knowledge and experience with Banksy prints when deciding whether or not to purchase such a print. However, such prints will be worth significantly less than identical ones with provenance.
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jam
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,629
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November 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by jam on May 4, 2007 16:55:04 GMT 1, Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan.
What is the deal with 'poohbearfrance'?
Also, is there a blacklist of sorts for art sellers to avoid on ebay?
Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan. What is the deal with 'poohbearfrance'? Also, is there a blacklist of sorts for art sellers to avoid on ebay?
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Early unstamped prints, by slowmo on May 4, 2007 16:59:25 GMT 1, If you're going to the effort of faking a banksy, it would not be a problem getting a blindstamp made so wouldn't discount those earlier prints, in fact if you see an early print like Weston Super Mare with a blind stamp you could instantly rule them out as being real.
If you're going to the effort of faking a banksy, it would not be a problem getting a blindstamp made so wouldn't discount those earlier prints, in fact if you see an early print like Weston Super Mare with a blind stamp you could instantly rule them out as being real.
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RBK
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,925
๐๐ป 104
September 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by RBK on May 4, 2007 17:20:31 GMT 1, Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan. What is the deal with 'poohbearfrance'? Also, is there a blacklist of sorts for art sellers to avoid on ebay?
'poohbearfrance' and 'beautifullosers' have been known to sell 'back-door' or fake print jobs. With regards to a black list - just post on this forum and the Wall Candy forum if you worry something is suspect. A lot of the members will be able to help you separate the good from the bad.
Beejoir is right - very few fakes make it to ebay. Stay away from a seller named 'poohbearfrance' and be skeptical of things coming out of Japan. What is the deal with 'poohbearfrance'? Also, is there a blacklist of sorts for art sellers to avoid on ebay? 'poohbearfrance' and 'beautifullosers' have been known to sell 'back-door' or fake print jobs. With regards to a black list - just post on this forum and the Wall Candy forum if you worry something is suspect. A lot of the members will be able to help you separate the good from the bad.
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weeble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,278
๐๐ป 2
April 2007
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Early unstamped prints, by weeble on May 4, 2007 18:00:35 GMT 1, Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this?
Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this?
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hungrig
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 173
๐๐ป 0
May 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by hungrig on May 4, 2007 18:07:14 GMT 1, Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this?
weeble,
Hopefully, the person you buy the print from will have done their own due diligence when they purchased it, in order to satisfy themselves that the print was genuine and, separately, legitimate (i.e. not a "back door" print).
If they haven't, this hole in the provenance should be reflected in the sale price.
Likewise, if you ever come to re-sell the print, potential purchasers will demand the same from you.
Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this? weeble, Hopefully, the person you buy the print from will have done their own due diligence when they purchased it, in order to satisfy themselves that the print was genuine and, separately, legitimate (i.e. not a "back door" print). If they haven't, this hole in the provenance should be reflected in the sale price. Likewise, if you ever come to re-sell the print, potential purchasers will demand the same from you.
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RBK
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,925
๐๐ป 104
September 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by RBK on May 4, 2007 18:09:59 GMT 1, Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this?
All provenance means is the 'history' You don't need to contact each person whose hands its gone through - but there should be some sort of trail (email, receipts, bank statements, paypal logs, etc) showing the changing of hands from when it was first sold. Good luck!
Thanknkyou guys and hungrig for the detailed post. Its like, I really want to buy a Weston, but I'm scared of picking up a fake. So, if I buy one with a number, I should be able to trace it back to the seller, but I'll need to try an contact everyone owner in the chain - how feasible is it to do that? Has any of you ever done this? All provenance means is the 'history' You don't need to contact each person whose hands its gone through - but there should be some sort of trail (email, receipts, bank statements, paypal logs, etc) showing the changing of hands from when it was first sold. Good luck!
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weeble
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,278
๐๐ป 2
April 2007
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Early unstamped prints, by weeble on May 4, 2007 19:26:36 GMT 1, thanks guys
thanks guys
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Early unstamped prints, by tomhills1 on May 4, 2007 22:13:06 GMT 1, to clarify something, 'backdoor' prints are not fakes as such, they were printed on the same paper at the same time using the same inks and the same screens. they are however illegitimate. they are outside of the edition and will be passed off as gifts, tests, un-numbered etc. they have a relative value as they are more akin to a regular print than say an inkjet, just remember anything that is not legit has no family tree (provinence) so proving it is a genuine knock-off (a contradiction in terms), is hard and even harder should you come to sell.
my advice? ask the seller if they are the registered purchaser at POW of the print. if they're not ask who is, they may refer you to an official outlet such as tom tom. if they still don't know, then step back. ask yourself how much you're willing to pay not knowing the origins of the print and therefore it's legitimacy? if you're a millionare you may not give sh*t, but to most people although they are in love with the work, nowadays the kind of sums involved mean that you have to at least protect your investment.
be careful but don't be put off, ask about, then ask about again. if you're still not sure then maybe leave it unless you can afford to take a risk. knowledge is power my friend so arm yourself and learn to trust yourself. it's you you have to answer to.
to clarify something, 'backdoor' prints are not fakes as such, they were printed on the same paper at the same time using the same inks and the same screens. they are however illegitimate. they are outside of the edition and will be passed off as gifts, tests, un-numbered etc. they have a relative value as they are more akin to a regular print than say an inkjet, just remember anything that is not legit has no family tree (provinence) so proving it is a genuine knock-off (a contradiction in terms), is hard and even harder should you come to sell. my advice? ask the seller if they are the registered purchaser at POW of the print. if they're not ask who is, they may refer you to an official outlet such as tom tom. if they still don't know, then step back. ask yourself how much you're willing to pay not knowing the origins of the print and therefore it's legitimacy? if you're a millionare you may not give sh*t, but to most people although they are in love with the work, nowadays the kind of sums involved mean that you have to at least protect your investment. be careful but don't be put off, ask about, then ask about again. if you're still not sure then maybe leave it unless you can afford to take a risk. knowledge is power my friend so arm yourself and learn to trust yourself. it's you you have to answer to.
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nombei
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 355
๐๐ป 2
September 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by nombei on May 4, 2007 22:54:49 GMT 1, i don't plan to sell my Banksy's off, but i have thought about how i would be able to prove they are legit prints...
two of the early Banksy's i have were purchased from Greenleaf Bookshop and other than the fact that i still have the tubes they came in, i'm not sure what else i could show someone. perhaps POW could verify that they sold those prints to Greenleaf or something.
the other early print i have came directly from POW, so that should be easier to sort out. though this was pre-stamp and i don't have any receipt since POW didn't include anything...
and for the Sepia Morons, i at least have the email from POW and the payment email.
i don't plan to sell my Banksy's off, but i have thought about how i would be able to prove they are legit prints...
two of the early Banksy's i have were purchased from Greenleaf Bookshop and other than the fact that i still have the tubes they came in, i'm not sure what else i could show someone. perhaps POW could verify that they sold those prints to Greenleaf or something.
the other early print i have came directly from POW, so that should be easier to sort out. though this was pre-stamp and i don't have any receipt since POW didn't include anything...
and for the Sepia Morons, i at least have the email from POW and the payment email.
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RBK
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,925
๐๐ป 104
September 2006
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Early unstamped prints, by RBK on May 5, 2007 1:12:26 GMT 1, i don't plan to sell my Banksy's off, but i have thought about how i would be able to prove they are legit prints... two of the early Banksy's i have were purchased from Greenleaf Bookshop and other than the fact that i still have the tubes they came in, i'm not sure what else i could show someone. perhaps POW could verify that they sold those prints to Greenleaf or something. the other early print i have came directly from POW, so that should be easier to sort out. though this was pre-stamp and i don't have any receipt since POW didn't include anything... and for the Sepia Morons, i at least have the email from POW and the payment email.
POW can verify that a certain prints went to various distributors (Greenleaf, the Tate, artrepublic, etc)
More importantly, if I were you I would go through old credit card/bank statements and find evidence of the purchase.
i don't plan to sell my Banksy's off, but i have thought about how i would be able to prove they are legit prints... two of the early Banksy's i have were purchased from Greenleaf Bookshop and other than the fact that i still have the tubes they came in, i'm not sure what else i could show someone. perhaps POW could verify that they sold those prints to Greenleaf or something. the other early print i have came directly from POW, so that should be easier to sort out. though this was pre-stamp and i don't have any receipt since POW didn't include anything... and for the Sepia Morons, i at least have the email from POW and the payment email. POW can verify that a certain prints went to various distributors (Greenleaf, the Tate, artrepublic, etc) More importantly, if I were you I would go through old credit card/bank statements and find evidence of the purchase.
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Octopus UK
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 881
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February 2007
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Early unstamped prints, by Octopus UK on May 5, 2007 11:27:53 GMT 1, Without provenance you might as well just buy a tribute piece for its image value alone.
Without provenance you might as well just buy a tribute piece for its image value alone.
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