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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ThursdayFeeling on Apr 12, 2007 11:44:58 GMT 1, There has been a lot of discussion on the difference between signed v Unsigned
But what are your thoughts and preferences between Signed(Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered)
I ask this question because recently there are a number of prints floating around on ebay that are signed but not numbered, some have provenience but this is still not from the man himself, usually from his mate!!
There has been a lot of discussion on the difference between signed v Unsigned
But what are your thoughts and preferences between Signed(Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered)
I ask this question because recently there are a number of prints floating around on ebay that are signed but not numbered, some have provenience but this is still not from the man himself, usually from his mate!!
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by Daniel Silk on Apr 12, 2007 12:03:04 GMT 1, Some people have strong views on this subject  so I might regret posting this 
Some unsigned and unnumbered prints could have been given out by Banksy, POW, Santa's Ghetto, as gifts to say thanks to mates that have helped them out.
Some unsigned and unnumbered prints may have come from the printers that printed POW stuff before they started doing it all themselves. Imagine if they are printing a run of 750, they may do a few extra to cover any that may get damaged or as test prints.
Some unsigned and unnumbered prints could have been sold by mistake in the very early days when nobody realized they would ever become valuable. I have heard rumors of this happening at some of the first Santa's Ghettos, and the Turf War show.
Some people have strong views on this subject so I might regret posting this Some unsigned and unnumbered prints could have been given out by Banksy, POW, Santa's Ghetto, as gifts to say thanks to mates that have helped them out. Some unsigned and unnumbered prints may have come from the printers that printed POW stuff before they started doing it all themselves. Imagine if they are printing a run of 750, they may do a few extra to cover any that may get damaged or as test prints. Some unsigned and unnumbered prints could have been sold by mistake in the very early days when nobody realized they would ever become valuable. I have heard rumors of this happening at some of the first Santa's Ghettos, and the Turf War show. |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by manchestermike on Apr 12, 2007 12:07:51 GMT 1, What about the signed(unnumbered) one's though Silky?
What about the signed(unnumbered) one's though Silky?
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by Daniel Silk on Apr 12, 2007 12:13:11 GMT 1, What about the signed(unnumbered) one's though Silky?
oh yeah! sorry 
Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered 
or its a fake 
What about the signed(unnumbered) one's though Silky? oh yeah! sorry Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered or its a fake |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by arcam on Apr 12, 2007 12:23:57 GMT 1, oh yeah! sorry Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered or its a fake
With the money you're talking now for a signed Banksy print, I would assume they'd be loads of fakes knocking around.
oh yeah! sorry Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered or its a fake With the money you're talking now for a signed Banksy print, I would assume they'd be loads of fakes knocking around. |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by Daniel Silk on Apr 12, 2007 13:32:48 GMT 1, oh yeah! sorry Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered or its a fake With the money you're talking now for a signed Banksy print, I would assume they'd be loads of fakes knocking around.
ahhh I really dont think so  I know on ebay at the minute you can find some posters and stuff, but actual fake prints? Nah! I think I have only seen about four or five max  and they were ages ago.
oh yeah! sorry Well I guess if the signature is genuine, they must be one of the gift prints from Banksy, or a signed print from POW that has been mistakenly sent out unnumbered or its a fake With the money you're talking now for a signed Banksy print, I would assume they'd be loads of fakes knocking around. ahhh I really dont think so I know on ebay at the minute you can find some posters and stuff, but actual fake prints? Nah! I think I have only seen about four or five max and they were ages ago. |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ricosg11 on Apr 12, 2007 13:59:01 GMT 1, maybe once the mobsters get involved, but not just yet.
maybe once the mobsters get involved, but not just yet.
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krazy
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by krazy on Apr 12, 2007 14:25:59 GMT 1, Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied.
Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct.
Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied.
Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct.
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 16:19:41 GMT 1, Signed but unnumbered (Sometimes with little drawings on like Ban the bomb signs etc etc)IMO normally turn out to be gifts from the man himself (Like silky states) and if verified IMO are OK and I would not hesitate to buy. Unlike Unnumbered and unsigned which again IMO normally turns out to be the ones that are borrowed from the print houses which I wouldnt touch with yours
Signed but unnumbered (Sometimes with little drawings on like Ban the bomb signs etc etc)IMO normally turn out to be gifts from the man himself (Like silky states) and if verified IMO are OK and I would not hesitate to buy. Unlike Unnumbered and unsigned which again IMO normally turns out to be the ones that are borrowed from the print houses which I wouldnt touch with yours |
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piperson
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by piperson on Apr 12, 2007 19:52:00 GMT 1,
what about signed, unnumbered but stamped??
what about signed, unnumbered but stamped??
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daveh
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by daveh on Apr 12, 2007 20:14:20 GMT 1, Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct.
Agreed but adding a signature to an unsigned might not be so hard - given the price differential its a risk but I'm no expert.
Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct. Agreed but adding a signature to an unsigned might not be so hard - given the price differential its a risk but I'm no expert. |
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 20:23:08 GMT 1, Sure is thats why its better to stick to prints that have prov from POW or Laz Dont forget not all are stamped but all that come from POW and Laz should be Numbered.
Sure is thats why its better to stick to prints that have prov from POW or Laz Dont forget not all are stamped but all that come from POW and Laz should be Numbered.
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by manchestermike on Apr 12, 2007 20:24:07 GMT 1, It's not the most difficult thing in the world to buy a blindstamp
It's not the most difficult thing in the world to buy a blindstamp
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 20:29:51 GMT 1, Blindstamp?, it would be funny to see a blindstamped (POW) rude copper.
Blindstamp?, it would be funny to see a blindstamped (POW) rude copper.
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piperson
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by piperson on Apr 12, 2007 20:51:32 GMT 1, It's not the most difficult thing in the world to buy a blindstamp
see what you mean in a way but if you take into account timbo's post think there are few other aspects they'd need to worry about
It's not the most difficult thing in the world to buy a blindstamp see what you mean in a way but if you take into account timbo's post think there are few other aspects they'd need to worry about |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by manchestermike on Apr 12, 2007 20:55:35 GMT 1, Blindstamp?, it would be funny to see a blindstamped (POW) rude copper.
Wasn't saying that - I was meaning reference, in particular the Applause
Blindstamp?, it would be funny to see a blindstamped (POW) rude copper. Wasn't saying that - I was meaning reference, in particular the Applause |
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by arcam on Apr 12, 2007 20:57:07 GMT 1, With regards provenience, if you buy a print from someone whose registered at POW as being the owner, do POW allow you to change it over so you'll be down as the new owner?
With regards provenience, if you buy a print from someone whose registered at POW as being the owner, do POW allow you to change it over so you'll be down as the new owner?
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ร
gent รacardi on Apr 12, 2007 21:03:35 GMT 1, With regards provenience, if you buy a print from someone whose registered at POW as being the owner, do POW allow you to change it over so you'll be down as the new owner?
No, they don't...
For a good reason too - keeping track of ownership would be a full time job on its own! 
With regards provenience, if you buy a print from someone whose registered at POW as being the owner, do POW allow you to change it over so you'll be down as the new owner? No, they don't... For a good reason too - keeping track of ownership would be a full time job on its own! |
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 21:03:47 GMT 1, You dont need to. As long as you get the current owner to invoice or give you a receipt thats fine. Its all about tracing it back to the orignal place of purchase or production nothing more.
You dont need to. As long as you get the current owner to invoice or give you a receipt thats fine. Its all about tracing it back to the orignal place of purchase or production nothing more.
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by arcam on Apr 12, 2007 21:09:52 GMT 1, You dont need to. As long as you get the current owner to invoice or give you a receipt thats fine. Its all about tracing it back to the orignal place of purchase or production nothing more.
Right....ok that makes sense. Just to claify so as long as they give me the receipt of proof of purchase from POW and another showing transfer of ownership to me I am guessing I should be covered...?
You dont need to. As long as you get the current owner to invoice or give you a receipt thats fine. Its all about tracing it back to the orignal place of purchase or production nothing more. Right....ok that makes sense. Just to claify so as long as they give me the receipt of proof of purchase from POW and another showing transfer of ownership to me I am guessing I should be covered...? |
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 22:25:15 GMT 1, Thats the ticket.
Thats the ticket.
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by tomhills1 on Apr 12, 2007 23:04:30 GMT 1, Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct.
i see your stay in singapore is not being wasted
*hangs head in shame at purile racism* 
Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct. i see your stay in singapore is not being wasted *hangs head in shame at purile racism* |
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ABC
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by ABC on Apr 12, 2007 23:05:51 GMT 1, LOL
LOL
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by tomhills1 on Apr 12, 2007 23:12:00 GMT 1, what about signed, unnumbered but stamped??
it's a gift, pure and simple. value? it's a backdoor print with an autograph. if it is a special image, GWB or something, then it would probably fetch more by superficialists who think a signature is the be all and end all.
to me, if there is no numbering it's backdoor, it may as well be dink (in investment terms) so only pay what you would for a piece of paper, some paint and a couple of hours of someone's time.
no stamp, or even an autograph, is gonna change matters for me.
if it's in the edition, then it was meant to be in the public domain, anything else has a rather sinister undertone to me.
keep it real, as he once painted.
what about signed, unnumbered but stamped?? it's a gift, pure and simple. value? it's a backdoor print with an autograph. if it is a special image, GWB or something, then it would probably fetch more by superficialists who think a signature is the be all and end all. to me, if there is no numbering it's backdoor, it may as well be dink (in investment terms) so only pay what you would for a piece of paper, some paint and a couple of hours of someone's time. no stamp, or even an autograph, is gonna change matters for me. if it's in the edition, then it was meant to be in the public domain, anything else has a rather sinister undertone to me. keep it real, as he once painted. |
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krazy
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Signed (Unnumbered) v Unsigned (Numbered), by krazy on Apr 13, 2007 2:25:42 GMT 1, Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct. i see your stay in singapore is not being wasted *hangs head in shame at purile racism*
lol.. nice one. I'm having trouble finding the right paint type here though.. care to help??
Accurate fakes, with or without number/signature are harder than you think. First, you need to choose exactly the right paper stock, then you need precisely the same paint (colour AND grade).. and I'm sure all paints that they use are custom mixed, then you need exactly the same stencil, then you need a very very similar screenprinting machine, and to top it off, you need to be precise about the volume of paint used and pressure applied. Get ALL of that right, and you have an accurate copy. But it'll take a long long time to get even one of those bits correct. i see your stay in singapore is not being wasted *hangs head in shame at purile racism* lol.. nice one. I'm having trouble finding the right paint type here though.. care to help?? |
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so I might regret posting this 
I know on ebay at the minute you can find some posters and stuff, but actual fake prints? 
and they were ages ago.
