mokonuts
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February 2011
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by mokonuts on Aug 18, 2011 21:42:16 GMT 1, Will urban art prices tank with what is going on in the stock/credit markets?
Will urban art prices tank with what is going on in the stock/credit markets?
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by xmyart on Aug 18, 2011 21:43:29 GMT 1, i can vouch for the stock market taking a fairly solid dip already :-(
i can vouch for the stock market taking a fairly solid dip already :-(
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skitchy
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by skitchy on Aug 18, 2011 21:59:21 GMT 1, It wasnt a problem for damien hirst...
It wasnt a problem for damien hirst...
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by manty on Aug 18, 2011 22:06:29 GMT 1, Will urban art prices tank with what is going on in the stock/credit markets?
yep, it will triple dip the dip of the double
Will urban art prices tank with what is going on in the stock/credit markets? yep, it will triple dip the dip of the double |
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mokonuts
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by mokonuts on Aug 18, 2011 22:13:13 GMT 1, Damien hirst supplies a different market of buyers but ive just bought a pink donuts the other month and even tho im not selling i dont want it to go down in value 
Damien hirst supplies a different market of buyers but ive just bought a pink donuts the other month and even tho im not selling i dont want it to go down in value |
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by curiousgeorge on Aug 19, 2011 0:04:34 GMT 1, It wasnt a problem for damien hirst...
Actually was a problem,his direct to clients sale was on the eve of the meltdown or thereabouts and soon after a lot of buyers decided not to go ahead, for one reason or another.
It wasnt a problem for damien hirst... Actually was a problem,his direct to clients sale was on the eve of the meltdown or thereabouts and soon after a lot of buyers decided not to go ahead, for one reason or another. |
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johnnyh
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March 2011
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by johnnyh on Aug 19, 2011 5:34:17 GMT 1, It's a fact that they will if equities are low.
When equities are low the following happens - Real Estate prices drop followed by luxuries (art being a luxury).
When equities increase this is followed by a rise in real estate and then an increase in luxuries.
Based on the fact that equities indicate what is happening to companies if companies are not doing well this raises the fear or causes lossesof jobs so people stop buying houses and luxuries and hang on to the cash if they have any.
When companioes doing well jobs safe wages hopefully rise buy new house or ne wcar or Banksy print.
Always exceptions eg how come this goes up then. however could say did not go up as much as it would of if no equity dip or recession.
So it does and will happen to art prices as well. It has also over the last 10 years. there was a graph in an older post on art and equities that highlighted this over the last 10 years looking at the top 500 art prices.
if interested search it out as was very int.
Johnny
It's a fact that they will if equities are low.
When equities are low the following happens - Real Estate prices drop followed by luxuries (art being a luxury).
When equities increase this is followed by a rise in real estate and then an increase in luxuries.
Based on the fact that equities indicate what is happening to companies if companies are not doing well this raises the fear or causes lossesof jobs so people stop buying houses and luxuries and hang on to the cash if they have any.
When companioes doing well jobs safe wages hopefully rise buy new house or ne wcar or Banksy print.
Always exceptions eg how come this goes up then. however could say did not go up as much as it would of if no equity dip or recession.
So it does and will happen to art prices as well. It has also over the last 10 years. there was a graph in an older post on art and equities that highlighted this over the last 10 years looking at the top 500 art prices.
if interested search it out as was very int.
Johnny
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kjzimm
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by kjzimm on Aug 19, 2011 5:59:15 GMT 1, So it does and will happen to art prices as well. It has also over the last 10 years. there was a graph in an older post on art and equities that highlighted this over the last 10 years looking at the top 500 art prices.
this is good to know. If this is as predictable as it sounds, I'd like to build some cash up and wait for a canvas. I think the markets could be depressed for quite some time.
So it does and will happen to art prices as well. It has also over the last 10 years. there was a graph in an older post on art and equities that highlighted this over the last 10 years looking at the top 500 art prices. this is good to know. If this is as predictable as it sounds, I'd like to build some cash up and wait for a canvas. I think the markets could be depressed for quite some time. |
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by Cedric Mnich on Aug 19, 2011 9:06:34 GMT 1, Recently read an article (in french) on correlation between equities and art markets.
Artprice says artworks above 50 - 100 KGBP are not concerned by crisis whereas works below 15K are impacted...
www.lesechos.fr/patrimoine/famille/actu/0201559277605-les-oeuvres-d-art-demeurent-une-valeur-refuge-204451.php
Positive point is that some artworks could become more affordable if some have to sell. Too bad for the high bid buyers but it's the law of markets (including art market) and speculation... The sadness of some make the joy of others...
I personnally think that Banksy originals will gain value with time as he is now already part of Art history.
Prints will most likely lose some value, but I don't think they will become bargains either (maybe a correction of 15-30 % ?).
Recently read an article (in french) on correlation between equities and art markets. Artprice says artworks above 50 - 100 KGBP are not concerned by crisis whereas works below 15K are impacted... www.lesechos.fr/patrimoine/famille/actu/0201559277605-les-oeuvres-d-art-demeurent-une-valeur-refuge-204451.phpPositive point is that some artworks could become more affordable if some have to sell. Too bad for the high bid buyers but it's the law of markets (including art market) and speculation... The sadness of some make the joy of others... I personnally think that Banksy originals will gain value with time as he is now already part of Art history. Prints will most likely lose some value, but I don't think they will become bargains either (maybe a correction of 15-30 % ?). |
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by boatyb on Aug 19, 2011 10:01:41 GMT 1, don't know exactly what the definition of "urban art" is... and also don't like talking about everything like it's tradable - just don't see art that way (love being naive about some things)...
but, based on my def - NO, there'll be no tanking... much too much heart still in it...
don't compare to the stock market for now - that seems to be purely a speculative sport now in loads of instances...
there was a time when folks "invested" in companies because they loved and believed something about the company, management and/or product - that changed with organized trading/exchanges etc... that is what it is - loads of money to be lost or won there...
i can't seem to believe that urban/street art falls in that category at the mo (emotionally biased)... but, you fine folks are collectively so powerful, you can do anything... tank it or rise it; all on you - sorry i meant, us;
don't know exactly what the definition of "urban art" is... and also don't like talking about everything like it's tradable - just don't see art that way (love being naive about some things)...
but, based on my def - NO, there'll be no tanking... much too much heart still in it...
don't compare to the stock market for now - that seems to be purely a speculative sport now in loads of instances...
there was a time when folks "invested" in companies because they loved and believed something about the company, management and/or product - that changed with organized trading/exchanges etc... that is what it is - loads of money to be lost or won there...
i can't seem to believe that urban/street art falls in that category at the mo (emotionally biased)... but, you fine folks are collectively so powerful, you can do anything... tank it or rise it; all on you - sorry i meant, us;
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by Cedric Mnich on Aug 19, 2011 10:30:06 GMT 1, Well, Banksy and MBW are obvioulsy considered investment or speculation vehicles by some at the moment. It's a question of momentary hype of course but when one sees 25% of freshly released prints on ebay at 5 or 10 times the release price only a few hours later, one may legitimately ask the question...
Most people buy art for their pleasure and enjoyment but I think from a certain price, investment is also considered. People who will make these things evolve are not Urban Art fans. It's big money collectors and auction houses. I don't think Banksy art would be that expensive if he had not been in Sotheby's auctions or bought by famous people.
Well, Banksy and MBW are obvioulsy considered investment or speculation vehicles by some at the moment. It's a question of momentary hype of course but when one sees 25% of freshly released prints on ebay at 5 or 10 times the release price only a few hours later, one may legitimately ask the question...
Most people buy art for their pleasure and enjoyment but I think from a certain price, investment is also considered. People who will make these things evolve are not Urban Art fans. It's big money collectors and auction houses. I don't think Banksy art would be that expensive if he had not been in Sotheby's auctions or bought by famous people.
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by des77 on Aug 19, 2011 10:47:51 GMT 1, Well, Banksy and MBW are obvioulsy considered investment or speculation vehicles by some at the moment. It's a question of momentary hype of course but when one sees 25% of freshly released prints on ebay at 5 or 10 times the release price only a few hours later, one may legitimately ask the question...
Flipping and investing are completely different things
Well, Banksy and MBW are obvioulsy considered investment or speculation vehicles by some at the moment. It's a question of momentary hype of course but when one sees 25% of freshly released prints on ebay at 5 or 10 times the release price only a few hours later, one may legitimately ask the question... Flipping and investing are completely different things |
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by Cedric Mnich on Aug 19, 2011 11:08:53 GMT 1, This is why I said "speculation vehicles". Flipping is speculating. It is art's "daytrading" I guess. Taking profit on short term supply and demand tensions.
This is why I said "speculation vehicles". Flipping is speculating. It is art's "daytrading" I guess. Taking profit on short term supply and demand tensions.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by johnnyh on Aug 19, 2011 13:40:40 GMT 1, It has nothing to do with speculation or flipping. These are in general factors of an over hyped economy.
When the equities are low or countries are finically poor less people are employed. That covers all parts of the company from cleaners to MD's.
Less people employed means less cash avail to spend.
This is not concept but fact.
It does not mean an individual artist will not grow but spend in the art market will reduce as it will in other areas.
If it all goes bad Europe and us go into recession it will be a good time to invest as it will come out and will grow again.
Eg. Simple maths there will be less people at auctions. Banksy may still sell high but another smaller artist will not sell etc.
But also thebanksy will not sell at as higher price as it would have. So overall the investment in art is reduced.
The only things not so effected are usually gold and bonds
Gold as it is a safety haven eg equities reduce gold value at a high. Bonds as invested in advance over a long term.
In recession people are concerned so do not spend as much or their life style is under threat and that goes from bottom to top just less people at the top so biggest effect is at bottom then middle then top.
These factors are the same as that is life. So if US and Europe go into recession again art prices will fall not individual asrtists. But better deals will be avail as like most guineas galleries need to pay wages, rent, marketing etc.
You must remember people who set up galleries like restaurants do not just do it for the money they like art as that is how they got there. They charge more than private but they have more costs and they need to sell to exist and live.
When times are tough they have it hard.
Uk is having a tough time but actual tone of the strongest economies that may escape the recession
Sorry to bang on!!!!!
Johnny
It has nothing to do with speculation or flipping. These are in general factors of an over hyped economy.
When the equities are low or countries are finically poor less people are employed. That covers all parts of the company from cleaners to MD's.
Less people employed means less cash avail to spend.
This is not concept but fact.
It does not mean an individual artist will not grow but spend in the art market will reduce as it will in other areas.
If it all goes bad Europe and us go into recession it will be a good time to invest as it will come out and will grow again.
Eg. Simple maths there will be less people at auctions. Banksy may still sell high but another smaller artist will not sell etc.
But also thebanksy will not sell at as higher price as it would have. So overall the investment in art is reduced.
The only things not so effected are usually gold and bonds
Gold as it is a safety haven eg equities reduce gold value at a high. Bonds as invested in advance over a long term.
In recession people are concerned so do not spend as much or their life style is under threat and that goes from bottom to top just less people at the top so biggest effect is at bottom then middle then top.
These factors are the same as that is life. So if US and Europe go into recession again art prices will fall not individual asrtists. But better deals will be avail as like most guineas galleries need to pay wages, rent, marketing etc.
You must remember people who set up galleries like restaurants do not just do it for the money they like art as that is how they got there. They charge more than private but they have more costs and they need to sell to exist and live.
When times are tough they have it hard.
Uk is having a tough time but actual tone of the strongest economies that may escape the recession
Sorry to bang on!!!!!
Johnny
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by manty on Aug 19, 2011 14:51:19 GMT 1, Bang away Johnny
good post
Bang away Johnny
good post
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mokonuts
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February 2011
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by mokonuts on Aug 19, 2011 18:19:09 GMT 1, Excuse my ignorance but what are equities? Is this companies or currency?
Excuse my ignorance but what are equities? Is this companies or currency?
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by Cedric Mnich on Aug 19, 2011 19:24:53 GMT 1, equities > company stocks
forex > currencies
equities > company stocks
forex > currencies
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johnnyh
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March 2011
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by johnnyh on Aug 19, 2011 21:02:23 GMT 1, urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=urbanart&thread=85366&page=1
Brushstrokes put up this thread and it has a good graph as well as a link on Art v Equities and bonds etc
But you can see things over a 10 year period.
The art part of the graph uses the top 500 sales at auction each year as it's bench mark so it is high end top stuff. Likewise it uses the top stock indicies so it is a pretty good reflection and gives a good guide def worth a look.
Johnny
urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=urbanart&thread=85366&page=1Brushstrokes put up this thread and it has a good graph as well as a link on Art v Equities and bonds etc But you can see things over a 10 year period. The art part of the graph uses the top 500 sales at auction each year as it's bench mark so it is high end top stuff. Likewise it uses the top stock indicies so it is a pretty good reflection and gives a good guide def worth a look. Johnny
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by My Name is Frank on Aug 19, 2011 23:27:25 GMT 1,
Shite australian lager
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johnnyh
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Will urban art tank with whats going on in, by johnnyh on Aug 20, 2011 1:56:57 GMT 1, Lol thx Leftery that bought it back to reallity.
Lol thx Leftery that bought it back to reallity.
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