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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Jan 30, 2012 10:04:05 GMT 1, And so it is upon us once again...
Thoughts for the championship? For me it's hard to look past France.
Off to Murrayfield for the Scotland England game this weekend and to Twickenham for the England Ireland game. Maybe more but Mrs HB is already playing a blinder on allowed weekends away this year. That said, following England has always been a big thing for me - even though this year I don't expect too much (maybe that's the best position to be in for an England supporter).
Shout if you're going to be at any of those matches and let's hear what you think about the tournament as it progresses.
I'm betting Coach will be on this thread pretty soon. 
And so it is upon us once again... Thoughts for the championship? For me it's hard to look past France. Off to Murrayfield for the Scotland England game this weekend and to Twickenham for the England Ireland game. Maybe more but Mrs HB is already playing a blinder on allowed weekends away this year. That said, following England has always been a big thing for me - even though this year I don't expect too much (maybe that's the best position to be in for an England supporter). Shout if you're going to be at any of those matches and let's hear what you think about the tournament as it progresses. I'm betting Coach will be on this thread pretty soon. |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Shoot Again on Jan 30, 2012 13:28:36 GMT 1, French fan here but going to see England vs Ireland @ Twickenham ;-)
French fan here but going to see England vs Ireland @ Twickenham ;-)
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Six Nations Rugby, by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 14:13:31 GMT 1, Go France !!
Shoot Again - Oh !! You are back !!
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kenzler
New Member
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September 2011
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Six Nations Rugby, by kenzler on Feb 1, 2012 22:19:48 GMT 1, Looking forward to Wales Home. Cardiff is a great place to hang out and watch the match
Looking forward to Wales Home. Cardiff is a great place to hang out and watch the match |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Feb 2, 2012 0:28:41 GMT 1, CMON WALES!!! got a few injuries, so not sure how we will do. I think France will take some beating.
CMON WALES!!! got a few injuries, so not sure how we will do. I think France will take some beating.
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Six Nations Rugby, by Stinky Pete on Feb 2, 2012 0:38:19 GMT 1, yes come on wales build on the world cup and no league tackles
yes come on wales build on the world cup and no league tackles
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dasium
New Member
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January 2011
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Six Nations Rugby, by dasium on Feb 2, 2012 1:12:28 GMT 1, From the BBC Sport Website
Why Scotland are better than England... and Ireland are the most successful Six Nations team
Tom Fordyce | 22:27 UK time, Monday, 30 January 2012
I know, it's an inflammatory headline. But with the start of the 2012 Six Nations just a few days away, I've been nose-deep in numbers and notions in an attempt to work out which side really does deserve the title of the tournament's most successful side. And - Scotland fans, prepare to celebrate - that banner statement can genuinely be justified.
This is not a simple matter of matches won or titles secured. I wanted to factor in the vastly differing resources each nation has at their disposal - finances, manpower, rugby expertise - to see which countries are underperforming and which make the best possible use of their precious assets.
Do England win as many games as the Rugby Football Union's vastly superior budget would suggest? Are Wales' greater playing numbers, relative to both Italy and Scotland, reflected in their results? Should France, on logic, beat Ireland every year?
Before we begin, a caveat. Consider the following stats a fuse under pre-tournament arguments and pub discussions rather than scientific fact. They are designed to be provocative rather than predictive, rugby freakonomics rather than the basis for regime change. But they are intriguing nonetheless.
England have won eight of their 12 Six Nations matches against Scotland including last year, but do they make the most of their resources? Photo: Getty
Our results base first of all. I've used total wins by each nation over the last 10 seasons of the Six Nations - i.e. their last 50 matches. You could argue that we should go back to the tournament's expansion in 2000, but my way keeps the process neater and allows Italy, who made their debut in 2000, a few more years to get up to pace.
On total victories alone, the rankings look like this:
1. France 39
2. Ireland 35
3. England 31
4. Wales 23
5. Scotland 13
6. Italy 7
So far, so obvious. So let's factor in financial muscle. I'm using each governing body's turnover for the financial year 2009-10. It's not a perfect measure - it's just one year and revenues have fluctuated over the decade - but it gives us a snapshot. England, for example, had a turnover in that year of £112m, Wales £58.3m, Scotland £33.6m.
If we adjust the table so it reads wins per £1m of turnover, we get a different order.
1. Ireland 0.71
2. France 0.53
3. Wales 0.393
4. Scotland 0.386
5. England 0.28
6. Italy 0.23
Scotland supporters, there's your first taunt for English friends. Ireland, here's one good piece of finance-related news in an otherwise grim few years.
It's not great reading for the RFU, though. France appear to get almost twice as much bang for their buck as England. Where does all that money pouring into the RFU's coffers go, all that cash from those £80-a-head tickets?
Then again, budgets are not spent solely on the national team. Money also goes on other representative teams, plus the grassroots game, building projects and upkeep. The sums or correlations are not straightforward either. It doesn't figure that a nation with revenues of £50m should win twice as many games as one with £25m.
So let's feed in something else - the total numbers playing rugby in each country.
According to the International Rugby Board's most recent figures, England have 2,549,196 registered players, France 313,877, Ireland 153,000, Wales 50,557, Italy 66,176 and Scotland 38,500. Tweaking our table so it's now wins per 1,000 players, we have our first triumph for the Principality.
1. Wales 0.46
2. Scotland 0.33
3. Ireland 0.23
4. France 0.13
5. Italy 0.11
6. England 0.01
Hold on, I hear you saying. Are there really 2.5m rugby players in England? According to IRB figures, yes, but it's a technical anomaly. That figure includes teenage schoolboys and primary school kids who may have played a couple of games of tag rugby.
A much more pertinent figure is the number of senior males - over 18 years of age - registered in each nation. Calculated on that basis (England down to 166,762, France 110,270, Ireland 25,440, Wales 22,408, Italy 15,848, Scotland 11,687) gives us these wins per 1,000 adult male players:
1. Ireland 1.38
2. Scotland 1.12
3. Wales 1.03
4. Italy 0.44
5. France 0.35
6. England 0.19
Again, it's not great for England. They have comfortably the biggest playing pool of adult blokes. Suddenly France's 39 wins from 50 matches looks a touch less impressive, too. With all those players to choose from, with such an obvious rugby culture, shouldn't they be more successful at international level than Ireland?
Scotland, once again, rather than being perpetual Six Nations disappointments, now seem to be punching well above their weight. And for Wales, with a playing pool less than a sixth the size of England, to have won twice as many Grand Slams over the last decade as their bitterest rivals seems either miraculous or scandalous, depending on which side of the border you live.
Let's narrow it down still further - to the number of professional, internationally-qualified players each national coach has to pick from.
Here I'm indebted to colleague Bryn Palmer, who has spent several long train journeys immersed in club handbooks and detailed spread-sheets to give us the numbers.
His guidelines? The numbers include any player technically available for selection, including one-cap wonders or the aged and unlikely. For England, it discounts those playing their club rugby in France. For the French, it rules out anyone playing abroad, as national policy dictates. For Italy, only those at fully professional clubs are included.
That gives us these totals of available professional players:
1. England 333
2. France 319
3. Wales 141
4. Ireland 132
5. Scotland 90
6. Italy 75
So if we tweak the table once again to make it wins per qualified pro player, we get this:
1. Ireland 0.27
2. Wales 0.16
3. Scotland 0.14
4. France 0.11
5. Italy 0.0933
6. England 0.0931
England supporters, cover your eyes at the profligate waste of it all. Scotland, celebrate a triumph of frugal resources. Ireland, your quality blows away your shortfall of quantity.
One final thought. If you can't be the most successful, perhaps you can be the most entertaining. Which side has scored the most tries over the last decade?
1. France 140
2. England 139
3. Ireland 126
4. Wales 105
5. Italy 56
6. Scotland 53
So there we have it. Scotland are indeed a more successful side than England, based on financial resources and playing numbers. Ireland make the best use of their playing pool, while Wales, much like Mike Phillips, are solid in all areas. France are the most entertaining, while Italy are more creative than Scotland.
And England? Let's view 2012 as a chance to put a few wrongs right.
From the BBC Sport Website
Why Scotland are better than England... and Ireland are the most successful Six Nations team
Tom Fordyce | 22:27 UK time, Monday, 30 January 2012
I know, it's an inflammatory headline. But with the start of the 2012 Six Nations just a few days away, I've been nose-deep in numbers and notions in an attempt to work out which side really does deserve the title of the tournament's most successful side. And - Scotland fans, prepare to celebrate - that banner statement can genuinely be justified.
This is not a simple matter of matches won or titles secured. I wanted to factor in the vastly differing resources each nation has at their disposal - finances, manpower, rugby expertise - to see which countries are underperforming and which make the best possible use of their precious assets.
Do England win as many games as the Rugby Football Union's vastly superior budget would suggest? Are Wales' greater playing numbers, relative to both Italy and Scotland, reflected in their results? Should France, on logic, beat Ireland every year?
Before we begin, a caveat. Consider the following stats a fuse under pre-tournament arguments and pub discussions rather than scientific fact. They are designed to be provocative rather than predictive, rugby freakonomics rather than the basis for regime change. But they are intriguing nonetheless.
England have won eight of their 12 Six Nations matches against Scotland including last year, but do they make the most of their resources? Photo: Getty
Our results base first of all. I've used total wins by each nation over the last 10 seasons of the Six Nations - i.e. their last 50 matches. You could argue that we should go back to the tournament's expansion in 2000, but my way keeps the process neater and allows Italy, who made their debut in 2000, a few more years to get up to pace.
On total victories alone, the rankings look like this:
1. France 39
2. Ireland 35
3. England 31
4. Wales 23
5. Scotland 13
6. Italy 7
So far, so obvious. So let's factor in financial muscle. I'm using each governing body's turnover for the financial year 2009-10. It's not a perfect measure - it's just one year and revenues have fluctuated over the decade - but it gives us a snapshot. England, for example, had a turnover in that year of £112m, Wales £58.3m, Scotland £33.6m.
If we adjust the table so it reads wins per £1m of turnover, we get a different order.
1. Ireland 0.71
2. France 0.53
3. Wales 0.393
4. Scotland 0.386
5. England 0.28
6. Italy 0.23
Scotland supporters, there's your first taunt for English friends. Ireland, here's one good piece of finance-related news in an otherwise grim few years.
It's not great reading for the RFU, though. France appear to get almost twice as much bang for their buck as England. Where does all that money pouring into the RFU's coffers go, all that cash from those £80-a-head tickets?
Then again, budgets are not spent solely on the national team. Money also goes on other representative teams, plus the grassroots game, building projects and upkeep. The sums or correlations are not straightforward either. It doesn't figure that a nation with revenues of £50m should win twice as many games as one with £25m.
So let's feed in something else - the total numbers playing rugby in each country.
According to the International Rugby Board's most recent figures, England have 2,549,196 registered players, France 313,877, Ireland 153,000, Wales 50,557, Italy 66,176 and Scotland 38,500. Tweaking our table so it's now wins per 1,000 players, we have our first triumph for the Principality.
1. Wales 0.46
2. Scotland 0.33
3. Ireland 0.23
4. France 0.13
5. Italy 0.11
6. England 0.01
Hold on, I hear you saying. Are there really 2.5m rugby players in England? According to IRB figures, yes, but it's a technical anomaly. That figure includes teenage schoolboys and primary school kids who may have played a couple of games of tag rugby.
A much more pertinent figure is the number of senior males - over 18 years of age - registered in each nation. Calculated on that basis (England down to 166,762, France 110,270, Ireland 25,440, Wales 22,408, Italy 15,848, Scotland 11,687) gives us these wins per 1,000 adult male players:
1. Ireland 1.38
2. Scotland 1.12
3. Wales 1.03
4. Italy 0.44
5. France 0.35
6. England 0.19
Again, it's not great for England. They have comfortably the biggest playing pool of adult blokes. Suddenly France's 39 wins from 50 matches looks a touch less impressive, too. With all those players to choose from, with such an obvious rugby culture, shouldn't they be more successful at international level than Ireland?
Scotland, once again, rather than being perpetual Six Nations disappointments, now seem to be punching well above their weight. And for Wales, with a playing pool less than a sixth the size of England, to have won twice as many Grand Slams over the last decade as their bitterest rivals seems either miraculous or scandalous, depending on which side of the border you live.
Let's narrow it down still further - to the number of professional, internationally-qualified players each national coach has to pick from.
Here I'm indebted to colleague Bryn Palmer, who has spent several long train journeys immersed in club handbooks and detailed spread-sheets to give us the numbers.
His guidelines? The numbers include any player technically available for selection, including one-cap wonders or the aged and unlikely. For England, it discounts those playing their club rugby in France. For the French, it rules out anyone playing abroad, as national policy dictates. For Italy, only those at fully professional clubs are included.
That gives us these totals of available professional players:
1. England 333
2. France 319
3. Wales 141
4. Ireland 132
5. Scotland 90
6. Italy 75
So if we tweak the table once again to make it wins per qualified pro player, we get this:
1. Ireland 0.27
2. Wales 0.16
3. Scotland 0.14
4. France 0.11
5. Italy 0.0933
6. England 0.0931
England supporters, cover your eyes at the profligate waste of it all. Scotland, celebrate a triumph of frugal resources. Ireland, your quality blows away your shortfall of quantity.
One final thought. If you can't be the most successful, perhaps you can be the most entertaining. Which side has scored the most tries over the last decade?
1. France 140
2. England 139
3. Ireland 126
4. Wales 105
5. Italy 56
6. Scotland 53
So there we have it. Scotland are indeed a more successful side than England, based on financial resources and playing numbers. Ireland make the best use of their playing pool, while Wales, much like Mike Phillips, are solid in all areas. France are the most entertaining, while Italy are more creative than Scotland.
And England? Let's view 2012 as a chance to put a few wrongs right.
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Six Nations Rugby, by Shoot Again on Feb 2, 2012 7:22:31 GMT 1, So France is the most entertaining ? Fine by me, that's the reason why I watch sport !
So France is the most entertaining ? Fine by me, that's the reason why I watch sport !
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Six Nations Rugby, by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 11:09:19 GMT 1, They are indeed entertainers !!
They are indeed entertainers !!
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Feb 2, 2012 11:12:27 GMT 1, I am packing my thermals for Murrayfield .... brrrrr...
I am packing my thermals for Murrayfield .... brrrrr...
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balibob
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,782
👍🏻 326
November 2010
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Six Nations Rugby, by balibob on Feb 2, 2012 11:18:27 GMT 1, Can't call it this year, you would think France or Wales from the world cup showing but who knows. Going to go for England as I always do and prepare myself for another major disapointment.
Can't call it this year, you would think France or Wales from the world cup showing but who knows. Going to go for England as I always do and prepare myself for another major disapointment.
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Six Nations Rugby, by Shoot Again on Feb 2, 2012 11:24:46 GMT 1, At least France won't be able to use the excuse of a Coach they hate this time ;-)
At least France won't be able to use the excuse of a Coach they hate this time ;-)
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stanley
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,006
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January 2010
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Six Nations Rugby, by stanley on Feb 2, 2012 11:25:02 GMT 1, From the BBC Sport Website
Didnt want to quote the whole post but my conclusion was that Wales will win ;D
From the BBC Sport Website [/i][/quote] Didnt want to quote the whole post but my conclusion was that Wales will win ;D |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Feb 26, 2012 5:39:35 GMT 1, I have never seen Twickers sooo quiet!!! Great win for Wales but not a top notch performance, England played better than I thought they would tbh. France at home for the Grandslam... CMON!!!
I have never seen Twickers sooo quiet!!! Great win for Wales but not a top notch performance, England played better than I thought they would tbh. France at home for the Grandslam... CMON!!!
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Six Nations Rugby, by Shoot Again on Mar 11, 2012 16:00:35 GMT 1, Let's the CRUNCH begin !!!
Let's the CRUNCH begin !!!
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 11, 2012 19:12:45 GMT 1, Oh yes. Excellent display from Les Blancs
Oh yes. Excellent display from Les Blancs |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Mar 18, 2012 0:35:20 GMT 1, Well done WALES!! Grand Slam winners, coming over here to OZ unbeaten in June, going to be 3 cracking test matches!!! Swansea outplayed Fulham also, snother clen sheet and upto 8th in the league.. Happy days!!
Well done WALES!! Grand Slam winners, coming over here to OZ unbeaten in June, going to be 3 cracking test matches!!! Swansea outplayed Fulham also, snother clen sheet and upto 8th in the league.. Happy days!! |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 18, 2012 0:43:09 GMT 1, Respect to Wales. And also to England. Not a classic tournament this year but really important for both those nations. And for Ireland, I think, who were finally found out today. IMHO they've been punching above their weight for a year or so now.
Respect to Wales. And also to England. Not a classic tournament this year but really important for both those nations. And for Ireland, I think, who were finally found out today. IMHO they've been punching above their weight for a year or so now.
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Six Nations Rugby, by rottenredrooster on Mar 18, 2012 18:25:31 GMT 1, Respect to Wales. And also to England. Not a classic tournament this year but really important for both those nations. And for Ireland, I think, who were finally found out today. IMHO they've been punching above their weight for a year or so now.
You've got to be joking. The Irish provincial teams have won the Heineken Cup and Magners League over the past 5 years.
The only reason this championship belonged Wales is due to the dubious decisions at the Avia Stadium.
Respect to Wales. And also to England. Not a classic tournament this year but really important for both those nations. And for Ireland, I think, who were finally found out today. IMHO they've been punching above their weight for a year or so now. You've got to be joking. The Irish provincial teams have won the Heineken Cup and Magners League over the past 5 years. The only reason this championship belonged Wales is due to the dubious decisions at the Avia Stadium. |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 18, 2012 20:06:31 GMT 1, Not joking. Ireland are an average international side at best. IMHO they've achieved very little and promised much. And, had those decisions at the Aviva gone Ireland's way instead of Wales, it would have been England that lifted the trophy and not Ireland.
Not joking. Ireland are an average international side at best. IMHO they've achieved very little and promised much. And, had those decisions at the Aviva gone Ireland's way instead of Wales, it would have been England that lifted the trophy and not Ireland.
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Six Nations Rugby, by rottenredrooster on Mar 18, 2012 20:09:37 GMT 1, Not joking. Ireland are an average international side at best. IMHO they've achieved very little and promised much. And, had those decisions at the Aviva gone Ireland's way instead of Wales, it would have been England that lifted the trophy and not Ireland.
Why has Ireland beaten England 7 out of the last 9 times then.
Going on that record, it's England who promise so much but give so little.
Don't hark on about the World Cup. New Zealand are the World Champions now.
How many English players will get in the next Lions squad?
Not joking. Ireland are an average international side at best. IMHO they've achieved very little and promised much. And, had those decisions at the Aviva gone Ireland's way instead of Wales, it would have been England that lifted the trophy and not Ireland. Why has Ireland beaten England 7 out of the last 9 times then. Going on that record, it's England who promise so much but give so little. Don't hark on about the World Cup. New Zealand are the World Champions now. How many English players will get in the next Lions squad? |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 18, 2012 20:14:54 GMT 1, I'm not sure I see your point. England have been shite since they won the World Cup in 2003. Apart from recently. Are you saying you think Ireland were the best team in this year's Six Nations?
I'm not sure I see your point. England have been shite since they won the World Cup in 2003. Apart from recently. Are you saying you think Ireland were the best team in this year's Six Nations?
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Six Nations Rugby, by rottenredrooster on Mar 18, 2012 20:17:27 GMT 1, I'm not sure I see your point. England have been s**te since they won the World Cup in 2003. Apart from recently. Are you saying you think Ireland were the best team in this year's Six Nations?
I'm saying that Ireland haven't been punching above their weight. Italy were punching above their weight when they nearly beat England and then went on to nearly beat Scotland who then went on to nearly beat England.
I'm not sure I see your point. England have been s**te since they won the World Cup in 2003. Apart from recently. Are you saying you think Ireland were the best team in this year's Six Nations? I'm saying that Ireland haven't been punching above their weight. Italy were punching above their weight when they nearly beat England and then went on to nearly beat Scotland who then went on to nearly beat England. |
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Six Nations Rugby, by Hubble Bubble on Mar 18, 2012 20:22:45 GMT 1, RRR
I'm sure we agree on many things but not on this. You may well be right and, in true rugby fashion, I will respect and toast your opinion with a beer.
Cheers mate
HB
RRR
I'm sure we agree on many things but not on this. You may well be right and, in true rugby fashion, I will respect and toast your opinion with a beer.
Cheers mate
HB
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Six Nations Rugby, by rottenredrooster on Mar 18, 2012 20:24:20 GMT 1, Yeah cheers mate.
We'll return the favour at the Aviva next year.
Yeah cheers mate.
We'll return the favour at the Aviva next year.
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Tompkins
New Member
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August 2012
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Six Nations Rugby, by Tompkins on Mar 16, 2013 18:26:39 GMT 1, Quiet in here eh ?
Come on Wales........
Quiet in here eh ?
Come on Wales........
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Six Nations Rugby, by Coach on Mar 16, 2013 18:54:01 GMT 1, Quiet in here eh ? Come on Wales........
To many penalties, not enough tries.
Quiet in here eh ? Come on Wales........ To many penalties, not enough tries. |
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Tompkins
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August 2012
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Six Nations Rugby, by Tompkins on Mar 16, 2013 19:15:46 GMT 1, Quiet in here eh ? Come on Wales........ To many penalties, not enough tries.
Smashing you to smithereens !!!
Quiet in here eh ? Come on Wales........ To many penalties, not enough tries. from england aye ! lol Smashing you to smithereens !!! |
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hlarmy
Junior Member
🗨️ 3,199
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November 2007
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Six Nations Rugby, by hlarmy on Mar 16, 2013 20:18:10 GMT 1, Unbelievable, can't believe what I've just seen...!
Unbelievable, can't believe what I've just seen...!
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Six Nations Rugby, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Mar 17, 2013 8:56:23 GMT 1, GET IN THERE!!!!! been away for weekend, recorded game and just watched it.. Thought that game could go anyway and would be close. But a brilliant allround performance I didn't expect us to smash Engerrland to win the championship some quality tries also...
GET IN THERE!!!!! been away for weekend, recorded game and just watched it.. Thought that game could go anyway and would be close. But a brilliant allround performance I didn't expect us to smash Engerrland to win the championship some quality tries also... |
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