uglyiq
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June 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by uglyiq on Sept 25, 2007 16:09:08 GMT 1, ANTONY MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQUIRED
As many of you doubtless know the Dirty Deluxe Poster Print (unlimited unsigned edition at £33) has been "temporarily" discontinued from • www.antonymicallef.com • with the predictable result that a secondary market was created for a print who's primary purpose was to make a Poster available to Everyone at a set cost that ruled out secondary sales
Given the unseemly events of last week I think it would be a commendable gesture on the Artist's part to reinstate this Poster Print together with the Peacekeeper Poster Print that may (or may not) have been available to buy for $10 at the LA show...
I don't think it's that much to ask really when £2,000,000 worth of prints were sold in just over 24 hours....
Though I do personally think Lazarides, POW and the Artist designed the release with the best intention of making prints available to as many different people as possible, even if in practise this didn't quite work out as well as expected, and to be honest they could have charged more, especially for the POW print, and still had no problem selling all the prints so we shouldn't be too quick to point the mercenary arrow in their direction....
With this in mind I would like to suggest that we cut and paste the following Friendly Request (or send your own) to www.antonymicallef.com
PS - I know this is not in the interests of a few Forum members who've paid over the odds for one of these on the secondary market but I'm willing to put £5 in a kitty towards reimbursing some of their costs - there must be someone suitable who we can all trust on this Forum who might be willing to supervise such a kitty
• Dear Mr Micallef,
Re: 'Dirty Deluxe' Poster Print & 'Peacekeeper' Poster Print
Congratulations on the success of your LA show and on the release of your latest collection of prints. As a committed fan of your work I was pleased to see that your intentions with the release of this set of prints was to make them available to as many different people as possible and to curtail the profiteers - even though perhaps in practise this didn't quite work out as well as expected, I respect your intentions and the hard work under intense pressure done by all the Lazarides staff both in LA and in London.
However the demand for these prints seems to have exceeded most people's expectations and there are still a lot of disappointed fans who ended up with nothing.
No-one can please all of the people all of the time of course but I believe it would be a commendable gesture on your part to reinstate the 'Dirty Deluxe' Unlimited Poster Print that was previously available on your website. If possible it would be great to see a 'Peacekeeper' Unlimited Poster Print also made generally available before a secondary market for these Poster Prints is established (one has already sold on ebay for £100).
Your time and assistance is appreciated,
• A. Member
ANTONY MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQUIREDAs many of you doubtless know the Dirty Deluxe Poster Print (unlimited unsigned edition at £33) has been "temporarily" discontinued from • www.antonymicallef.com • with the predictable result that a secondary market was created for a print who's primary purpose was to make a Poster available to Everyone at a set cost that ruled out secondary sales Given the unseemly events of last week I think it would be a commendable gesture on the Artist's part to reinstate this Poster Print together with the Peacekeeper Poster Print that may (or may not) have been available to buy for $10 at the LA show... I don't think it's that much to ask really when £2,000,000 worth of prints were sold in just over 24 hours.... Though I do personally think Lazarides, POW and the Artist designed the release with the best intention of making prints available to as many different people as possible, even if in practise this didn't quite work out as well as expected, and to be honest they could have charged more, especially for the POW print, and still had no problem selling all the prints so we shouldn't be too quick to point the mercenary arrow in their direction.... With this in mind I would like to suggest that we cut and paste the following Friendly Request (or send your own) to www.antonymicallef.comPS - I know this is not in the interests of a few Forum members who've paid over the odds for one of these on the secondary market but I'm willing to put £5 in a kitty towards reimbursing some of their costs - there must be someone suitable who we can all trust on this Forum who might be willing to supervise such a kitty • Dear Mr Micallef,
Re: 'Dirty Deluxe' Poster Print & 'Peacekeeper' Poster Print
Congratulations on the success of your LA show and on the release of your latest collection of prints. As a committed fan of your work I was pleased to see that your intentions with the release of this set of prints was to make them available to as many different people as possible and to curtail the profiteers - even though perhaps in practise this didn't quite work out as well as expected, I respect your intentions and the hard work under intense pressure done by all the Lazarides staff both in LA and in London.
However the demand for these prints seems to have exceeded most people's expectations and there are still a lot of disappointed fans who ended up with nothing.
No-one can please all of the people all of the time of course but I believe it would be a commendable gesture on your part to reinstate the 'Dirty Deluxe' Unlimited Poster Print that was previously available on your website. If possible it would be great to see a 'Peacekeeper' Unlimited Poster Print also made generally available before a secondary market for these Poster Prints is established (one has already sold on ebay for £100).
Your time and assistance is appreciated,
• A. Member
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Montubu7
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November 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Montubu7 on Sept 25, 2007 16:15:32 GMT 1, done...
done...
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Harveyn
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July 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Harveyn on Sept 25, 2007 16:27:46 GMT 1, Done......
Out of interest when you hit the go back button on the website you end up in the previous screen from which the email was sent with all of the original details displayed, ready for sending again & again. Not sure if it works again but if it does then I just sent 20 copies....... ;D ;D ;D
Done......
Out of interest when you hit the go back button on the website you end up in the previous screen from which the email was sent with all of the original details displayed, ready for sending again & again. Not sure if it works again but if it does then I just sent 20 copies....... ;D ;D ;D
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bond
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January 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by bond on Sept 25, 2007 16:30:45 GMT 1, work is blocking the website again !! i'm sure i've found another way to get on in the past but can't remember.
If anyone has a sneaky way pls let me know ,otherwise i;ll do this when i get home
ta
work is blocking the website again !! i'm sure i've found another way to get on in the past but can't remember.
If anyone has a sneaky way pls let me know ,otherwise i;ll do this when i get home
ta
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by jonpud on Sept 25, 2007 16:48:22 GMT 1, Uglyiq,
Very good idea and I am with you all the way but sadly I refuse to send the letter as it intimates that I respect the hard work of Laz's staff, sorry but in this instance nothing could be further from the truth, last wednesday was a shambles, made worse by the unorganised staff!
I will edit and omit that sentance then send it as I agree with the principle of your intentions!
Regards, Jon
Uglyiq,
Very good idea and I am with you all the way but sadly I refuse to send the letter as it intimates that I respect the hard work of Laz's staff, sorry but in this instance nothing could be further from the truth, last wednesday was a shambles, made worse by the unorganised staff!
I will edit and omit that sentance then send it as I agree with the principle of your intentions!
Regards, Jon
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by jonpud on Sept 25, 2007 16:51:46 GMT 1, Also, I think one of our members managed to raise around £400.00 for a poster!!!! That would add strength to your point!? 
Also, I think one of our members managed to raise around £400.00 for a poster!!!! That would add strength to your point!? |
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Andy'77
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November 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Andy'77 on Sept 25, 2007 16:52:23 GMT 1, Just got one of those sets, but it would be great if they were sold as unlimited prints, if I'd have read this post first I'd have perhaps waited. 
Still as I don't have £8,000 for a real 21st C or even £1,500 for a Peacekeeper, this is probably the best option, not a bad size either, would go nicely in a 50x70 frame. Just hope the quality is reasonable, obviously not expecting the litho quality though...
Just got one of those sets, but it would be great if they were sold as unlimited prints, if I'd have read this post first I'd have perhaps waited. Still as I don't have £8,000 for a real 21st C or even £1,500 for a Peacekeeper, this is probably the best option, not a bad size either, would go nicely in a 50x70 frame. Just hope the quality is reasonable, obviously not expecting the litho quality though... |
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by jonpud on Sept 25, 2007 16:55:17 GMT 1, Just got one of those sets, knowing my luck they'll be available for £10 next week.... Still as I don't have £8,000 for a real 21st C or even £1500 for a Peacekeeper, this is probably the best option, not a bad size either, would go nicely in a 50x70 frame. Just hope the quality is reasonable, obviously not expecting the litho quality though...
Let us know what they are like mate, interested. I am amazed that the 21CL has never been mentioned before, were they definitely from the show?!
Just got one of those sets, knowing my luck they'll be available for £10 next week.... Still as I don't have £8,000 for a real 21st C or even £1500 for a Peacekeeper, this is probably the best option, not a bad size either, would go nicely in a 50x70 frame. Just hope the quality is reasonable, obviously not expecting the litho quality though... Let us know what they are like mate, interested. I am amazed that the 21CL has never been mentioned before, were they definitely from the show?! |
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uglyiq
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June 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by uglyiq on Sept 25, 2007 16:56:01 GMT 1, ...fair enough Jon you should of course only send what you agree with...the letter was just a guide for ease of use...appreciate you taking the time to do this though...
- I tried to be diplomatically generous as my own personal dealings with the people at Laz have been pretty good -
their somewhat unique interpretation of GMT being an unfortunate exception
...fair enough Jon you should of course only send what you agree with...the letter was just a guide for ease of use...appreciate you taking the time to do this though... - I tried to be diplomatically generous as my own personal dealings with the people at Laz have been pretty good - their somewhat unique interpretation of GMT being an unfortunate exception |
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Andy'77
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November 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Andy'77 on Sept 25, 2007 16:59:20 GMT 1, This was the blurb on the one I bought:
This listing is for 2 of Anthony Micallef's Super Rare Show Print Posters - Peace Keeper & 21st Century Love, only available at the Lazarides Gallery opening for the brand new Antony Micallef show Impure Idols in LA. Very few released to vip attendees! Posters are printed on a high quality gloss paper. Both prints look stunning in person!! Peace Keeper measures 19" in. x 27" in. & 21st Century Love measures 19" in. x 24" inches.
Seemed to be a few of these sets so I'm hoping they are legit!
This was the blurb on the one I bought:
This listing is for 2 of Anthony Micallef's Super Rare Show Print Posters - Peace Keeper & 21st Century Love, only available at the Lazarides Gallery opening for the brand new Antony Micallef show Impure Idols in LA. Very few released to vip attendees! Posters are printed on a high quality gloss paper. Both prints look stunning in person!! Peace Keeper measures 19" in. x 27" in. & 21st Century Love measures 19" in. x 24" inches.
Seemed to be a few of these sets so I'm hoping they are legit!
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by jonpud on Sept 25, 2007 17:00:37 GMT 1, ...fair enough Jon you should of course only send what you agree with...the letter was just a guide for ease of use...appreciate you taking the time to do this though... - I tried to be diplomatically generous as my own personal dealings with the people at Laz have been pretty good - their somewhat unique interpretation of GMT being an unfortunate exception
No worries, pleased you realize I was not s**tty with you in any way, just feel I couldn't send it in current format after a long cold day last wednesday and no apology from Laz!! 
Also just noticed that the 2 posters for sale have different descriptions, Peacekeeper says 'show print poster' and 21CL says only 'print poster'
Hmmmm, copyright issues I think!! LOL ;D
...fair enough Jon you should of course only send what you agree with...the letter was just a guide for ease of use...appreciate you taking the time to do this though... - I tried to be diplomatically generous as my own personal dealings with the people at Laz have been pretty good - their somewhat unique interpretation of GMT being an unfortunate exception No worries, pleased you realize I was not s**tty with you in any way, just feel I couldn't send it in current format after a long cold day last wednesday and no apology from Laz!! Also just noticed that the 2 posters for sale have different descriptions, Peacekeeper says 'show print poster' and 21CL says only 'print poster' Hmmmm, copyright issues I think!! LOL ;D |
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by bricky on Sept 25, 2007 17:01:42 GMT 1, hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a cock and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable?
hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a cock and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable?
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by jonpud on Sept 25, 2007 17:05:38 GMT 1, hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a c**k and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable?
LMFAO ;D Welcome!! ;D
hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a c**k and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable? LMFAO ;D Welcome!! ;D |
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artguyla
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September 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by artguyla on Sept 25, 2007 17:06:58 GMT 1, can you post pics of the cock and balls in question?
the original was in two tone grey and black spray paint.
is it signed and stamped?
hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a c**k and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable?
can you post pics of the cock and balls in question? the original was in two tone grey and black spray paint. is it signed and stamped? hello, I'm new to this site; is there somewhere that sells/buys pieces of graffiti removed from the streets. Its just that I was doing a shop fit in an old locksmiths in Clerkenwell central London and the old tin A board sign was found in the back, which had a Banksy rat sprayed on it. The rat is hanging from the U in 'keys cut' it has a parachute on its back. 'Banksy' is sprayed at the the top where it says 'this way for..' except someone has drawn a c**k and balls over the 'Banksy', its all pretty rusty. Is it collectable? |
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uglyiq
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June 2007
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by uglyiq on Sept 25, 2007 17:21:27 GMT 1, ...thread jacked by a rusty bit of tin !
Seriously though you'd be better off starting a new thread for this as it's gonna be of interest to a lot of people...
I've no idea if the piece is genuine/collectable/priceless/a-nice-fit-for-the-broken-window-by-the-back-door
I hope for your sake it's the real deal but if it's a scam my hard-hats off to you, the c**k & balls is a great touch !
...thread jacked by a rusty bit of tin !
Seriously though you'd be better off starting a new thread for this as it's gonna be of interest to a lot of people...
I've no idea if the piece is genuine/collectable/priceless/a-nice-fit-for-the-broken-window-by-the-back-door
I hope for your sake it's the real deal but if it's a scam my hard-hats off to you, the c**k & balls is a great touch !
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by bricky on Sept 25, 2007 17:24:11 GMT 1, its a metal sign from a locksmiths...I have managed to remove the knob with a bit of thinners; though its rubbed away the 'Banksy' sprayed bit quite a bit. I have taken some photos; I'll try and post them on here
its a metal sign from a locksmiths...I have managed to remove the knob with a bit of thinners; though its rubbed away the 'Banksy' sprayed bit quite a bit. I have taken some photos; I'll try and post them on here
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by bricky on Sept 25, 2007 17:36:25 GMT 1, I have no idea how to put the photos up
I have no idea how to put the photos up
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CR
Artist
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by CR on Sept 25, 2007 17:37:29 GMT 1, done, heres hoping!
CR
done, heres hoping!
CR
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uglyiq
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by uglyiq on Sept 25, 2007 17:44:16 GMT 1, ...there's a how to post pics thread on the General Chat Board - it's at the top you can't miss it
...there's a how to post pics thread on the General Chat Board - it's at the top you can't miss it
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Andy'77
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November 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Andy'77 on Sept 25, 2007 22:41:52 GMT 1, Actually is anyone who went to the LA Micallef show able to confirm that both of these posters were for sale.... Only seems to be 2 sellers selling most of these sets. Also, seems odd selling $10 posters to VIP's. I guess if it's a dodgy knock off I should be able to get my money back through paypal.
Actually is anyone who went to the LA Micallef show able to confirm that both of these posters were for sale.... Only seems to be 2 sellers selling most of these sets. Also, seems odd selling $10 posters to VIP's. I guess if it's a dodgy knock off I should be able to get my money back through paypal.
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CR
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by CR on Sept 25, 2007 22:46:11 GMT 1, Actually is anyone who went to the LA Micallef show able to confirm that both of these posters were for sale.... Only seems to be 2 sellers selling most of these sets. Also, seems odd selling $10 posters to VIP's. I guess if it's a dodgy knock off I should be able to get my money back through paypal.
smells fishy to me, but who am I to say!
ask riktek if he can confirm, another good deed wont hurt!!
CR
Actually is anyone who went to the LA Micallef show able to confirm that both of these posters were for sale.... Only seems to be 2 sellers selling most of these sets. Also, seems odd selling $10 posters to VIP's. I guess if it's a dodgy knock off I should be able to get my money back through paypal. smells fishy to me, but who am I to say! ask riktek if he can confirm, another good deed wont hurt!! CR |
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CR
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by CR on Sept 25, 2007 22:49:47 GMT 1, Corblimey,
This is a pretty big picture on Micallefs website, just out of interest what size do you reckon you could blow it up too before it became pixelated.
To me this image would make a good sized poster
CR
Corblimey, This is a pretty big picture on Micallefs website, just out of interest what size do you reckon you could blow it up too before it became pixelated. To me this image would make a good sized poster CR |
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by dave313perry on Sept 25, 2007 22:55:06 GMT 1, CR - the resolution is not great mate but you could get it to about SRA3+ without too much pixelation - 485x320mm much bigger think you will struggle - Cbl will help no doubt!
CR - the resolution is not great mate but you could get it to about SRA3+ without too much pixelation - 485x320mm much bigger think you will struggle - Cbl will help no doubt!
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CR
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by CR on Sept 25, 2007 22:58:32 GMT 1, I've just blown it up and even at 50x70 it looks ok.
may try to print on out and see what it looks like!!
Unless someone can get me confirmation that they are selling them at the show, then I reckon someone is knocking these up with this image!
CR
I've just blown it up and even at 50x70 it looks ok.
may try to print on out and see what it looks like!!
Unless someone can get me confirmation that they are selling them at the show, then I reckon someone is knocking these up with this image!
CR
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uglyiq
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by uglyiq on Sept 25, 2007 23:03:41 GMT 1, ...not that I want to put a dampener on Andy77's purchase - esp as he made me a very nice cup of tea once - but surely these images can be scanned from the micallef book - I don't have 1 so I don't know exactly what's in there - plus the different sizes and the different wording for the prints would put me off (and also probably protect the seller from paypal aggro) - who would produce 2 promo prints in almost the same but not exactly sizes, both being fairly non-standard - my guess is the Peacekeeper is legit and probaly intended as display/point of sale promotion and the 21C has been added to spice up the deal - not sure that's worth £100 but as long as they arrive uncreased I think they will look great framed up - seem to remember you get a Catalogue too so all in all not that bad a buy even if the 21C proves to be an inspired add-on by the Seller
...not that I want to put a dampener on Andy77's purchase - esp as he made me a very nice cup of tea once - but surely these images can be scanned from the micallef book - I don't have 1 so I don't know exactly what's in there - plus the different sizes and the different wording for the prints would put me off (and also probably protect the seller from paypal aggro) - who would produce 2 promo prints in almost the same but not exactly sizes, both being fairly non-standard - my guess is the Peacekeeper is legit and probaly intended as display/point of sale promotion and the 21C has been added to spice up the deal - not sure that's worth £100 but as long as they arrive uncreased I think they will look great framed up - seem to remember you get a Catalogue too so all in all not that bad a buy even if the 21C proves to be an inspired add-on by the Seller
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by dave313perry on Sept 25, 2007 23:07:17 GMT 1, I've just blown it up and even at 50x70 it looks ok. may try to print on out and see what it looks like!! Unless someone can get me confirmation that they are selling them at the show, then I reckon someone is knocking these up with this image! CR
Sodit i think i might get some done at work!! then i get a choice of his Website images too! If i do il let you know but it wont be for a few days or so!
I've just blown it up and even at 50x70 it looks ok. may try to print on out and see what it looks like!! Unless someone can get me confirmation that they are selling them at the show, then I reckon someone is knocking these up with this image! CR Sodit i think i might get some done at work!! then i get a choice of his Website images too! If i do il let you know but it wont be for a few days or so! |
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Andy'77
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November 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Andy'77 on Sept 25, 2007 23:11:21 GMT 1, There were two replies to another post implying there were more than one poster print for sale:
A friend got me one of each at the show, they were available.
Yes, this is real. The show posters were $10 USD each unlimited edition.
What are the chances of getting a quick reply from Laz as to the validity of these....
There were two replies to another post implying there were more than one poster print for sale: A friend got me one of each at the show, they were available. Yes, this is real. The show posters were $10 USD each unlimited edition. What are the chances of getting a quick reply from Laz as to the validity of these.... |
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CR
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October 2006
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by CR on Sept 25, 2007 23:15:02 GMT 1, hey Andy,
sorry if I've put a downer on them!
I am not saying that they aren't genuine, I'd just like to find out some more - there seems to be a lot of people who have gone and said they know nothing of them, I reckon the peacekeeper one was probably left over from the ones they pasted up everywhere!
CR
hey Andy,
sorry if I've put a downer on them!
I am not saying that they aren't genuine, I'd just like to find out some more - there seems to be a lot of people who have gone and said they know nothing of them, I reckon the peacekeeper one was probably left over from the ones they pasted up everywhere!
CR
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Andy'77
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MICALLEF • Dirty Deluxe Poster Print • ACTION REQ, by Andy'77 on Sept 25, 2007 23:21:14 GMT 1, No bother, I'm not too worried, just would like to know one way or the other. If they aren't real, I should be able to get a refund as the description would be false and ebay/paypal should rule in my favour. Does seem weird all the people who didn't see them for sale though.....
No bother, I'm not too worried, just would like to know one way or the other. If they aren't real, I should be able to get a refund as the description would be false and ebay/paypal should rule in my favour. Does seem weird all the people who didn't see them for sale though.....
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