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plush
New Member
Posts โข 238
Likes โข 18
November 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by plush on Aug 8, 2013 3:37:31 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back.
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 4:00:22 GMT 1, Compassion of an astounding magnitude
Compassion of an astounding magnitude
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sin
New Member
Posts โข 614
Likes โข 737
February 2013
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by sin on Aug 8, 2013 4:09:29 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Sorry I forgot what board I'm on... I guess if Banksy does its ok but if someone else does it its ok to pursue the guy and then taser him in the chest and have him die...
My bad. Oh, actually why don't you print this thread out, roll it up and stick it sideways up your ass. Thanks.
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Sorry I forgot what board I'm on... I guess if Banksy does its ok but if someone else does it its ok to pursue the guy and then taser him in the chest and have him die... My bad. Oh, actually why don't you print this thread out, roll it up and stick it sideways up your ass. Thanks.
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misterx
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,433
Likes โข 539
December 2010
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by misterx on Aug 8, 2013 4:51:24 GMT 1, Sorry to hear about your loss sin. Ignore the idiot above...he does not represent the average person here who, I am sure, would agree this is disgusting.
Sorry to hear about your loss sin. Ignore the idiot above...he does not represent the average person here who, I am sure, would agree this is disgusting.
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gravity1
New Member
Posts โข 777
Likes โข 492
January 2013
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by gravity1 on Aug 8, 2013 4:56:29 GMT 1, Horrible story! I hope the family pursues this all the way.
Horrible story! I hope the family pursues this all the way.
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pcant
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,669
Likes โข 681
July 2010
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by pcant on Aug 8, 2013 6:55:42 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Honestly, I'm not sure if this is intended to be a joke or not, but how do you think most of the artists got their start? The world of "street art" with its fancy gallery shows and $35K canvases did no arise fully formed in that condition. No, it was people like this kid in Miami (or Bristol, or New York, or Madrid, or Paris....) who climbed fire escapes to paint on buildings and billboards; who ran from the cops; who hid in rail yards until the guards were gone. The prints that people fast-finger like mad so they can then flip for hundreds of pounds/dollars/euros more are not the point. They came later. What came first was this stuff. Yes it's a media concoction, but if you watch "Exit Through the Gift Shop," those guys are running from the cops for the same reason the kid in Miami was. And does it not occur to you that the cops might possibly have lied about what happened? The only person who can contradict their story is dead, how do we know they are telling the truth? I'm not saying they lied, I wasn't there. I'm just saying unless you were there, you don't know for sure they are telling the truth either.
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Honestly, I'm not sure if this is intended to be a joke or not, but how do you think most of the artists got their start? The world of "street art" with its fancy gallery shows and $35K canvases did no arise fully formed in that condition. No, it was people like this kid in Miami (or Bristol, or New York, or Madrid, or Paris....) who climbed fire escapes to paint on buildings and billboards; who ran from the cops; who hid in rail yards until the guards were gone. The prints that people fast-finger like mad so they can then flip for hundreds of pounds/dollars/euros more are not the point. They came later. What came first was this stuff. Yes it's a media concoction, but if you watch "Exit Through the Gift Shop," those guys are running from the cops for the same reason the kid in Miami was. And does it not occur to you that the cops might possibly have lied about what happened? The only person who can contradict their story is dead, how do we know they are telling the truth? I'm not saying they lied, I wasn't there. I'm just saying unless you were there, you don't know for sure they are telling the truth either.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by johnnyh on Aug 8, 2013 6:55:59 GMT 1, Terrible shame really sad story.
Terrible shame really sad story.
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Coach on Aug 8, 2013 8:26:46 GMT 1, Terribly sad story. Taser used to avoid a physical incident? What does that mean? More than one cop against a teenage kid. Seems to me that the taser may have been used to avoid having to have any physical contact with the lad. And just 17! What a waste of a life.
Terribly sad story. Taser used to avoid a physical incident? What does that mean? More than one cop against a teenage kid. Seems to me that the taser may have been used to avoid having to have any physical contact with the lad. And just 17! What a waste of a life.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 8:54:38 GMT 1, Very sad to read this.
I guess we'll have to see what comes out after the inquest. If he did (and note I'm saying IF) charge at the Police then that could easily be seen as a just cause for them to taser him. At the moment all I've seen is the report above so it wouldn't be right for me or anyone to say this is definitely what happened though.
Regardless of what happened this is a very sad story and not one that any of us like to read.
Very sad to read this.
I guess we'll have to see what comes out after the inquest. If he did (and note I'm saying IF) charge at the Police then that could easily be seen as a just cause for them to taser him. At the moment all I've seen is the report above so it wouldn't be right for me or anyone to say this is definitely what happened though.
Regardless of what happened this is a very sad story and not one that any of us like to read.
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craigf
Full Member
Posts โข 8,557
Likes โข 846
May 2007
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by craigf on Aug 8, 2013 9:02:45 GMT 1, A terrible outcome and a complete waste of a life cut short so young
A terrible outcome and a complete waste of a life cut short so young
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love
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,645
Likes โข 390
October 2009
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by love on Aug 8, 2013 9:18:12 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Please leave this board!
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. Please leave this board!
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pelle
New Member
Posts โข 626
Likes โข 56
May 2007
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by pelle on Aug 8, 2013 9:22:04 GMT 1, Interesting how it was "an unknown unit" that took him into custody.
Interesting how it was "an unknown unit" that took him into custody.
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pcant
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,669
Likes โข 681
July 2010
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by pcant on Aug 8, 2013 9:36:00 GMT 1, Terribly sad story. Taser used to avoid a physical incident? What does that mean? More than one cop against a teenage kid. Seems to me that the taser may have been used to avoid having to have any physical contact with the lad. And just 17! What a waste of a life. Tasers are used by cops far too frequently, I contend. Of course, there are times when a person is legitimately a threat (and again, we don't know what happened for sure), but frequently in the US they are used on people that don't really seem like a threat, more punitively than needed. If the backstory that the cops threatened to beat him if they caught him painting again is true, that could be a catalyst for excessive force. Also, the fact that it's Florida means I am not surprised when messed-up stuff happens. In fact, it's expected. For those of you on Twitter: twitter.com/_FloridaMan
Terribly sad story. Taser used to avoid a physical incident? What does that mean? More than one cop against a teenage kid. Seems to me that the taser may have been used to avoid having to have any physical contact with the lad. And just 17! What a waste of a life. Tasers are used by cops far too frequently, I contend. Of course, there are times when a person is legitimately a threat (and again, we don't know what happened for sure), but frequently in the US they are used on people that don't really seem like a threat, more punitively than needed. If the backstory that the cops threatened to beat him if they caught him painting again is true, that could be a catalyst for excessive force. Also, the fact that it's Florida means I am not surprised when messed-up stuff happens. In fact, it's expected. For those of you on Twitter: twitter.com/_FloridaMan
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paoe
New Member
Posts โข 194
Likes โข 60
December 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by paoe on Aug 8, 2013 9:44:59 GMT 1, It's a terrible story, why would you taser someone for paint??? A good friend of mine died 6 years ago in Barking by a train after being chased whilst out spraying.
It's a terrible story, why would you taser someone for paint??? A good friend of mine died 6 years ago in Barking by a train after being chased whilst out spraying.
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mawge
New Member
Posts โข 910
Likes โข 181
March 2013
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by mawge on Aug 8, 2013 9:46:46 GMT 1, Very sad story
plush . shameful
Very sad story plush . shameful
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sal
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,009
Likes โข 2,325
January 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by sal on Aug 8, 2013 11:12:17 GMT 1,
These 2 things just don't make ANY sense to me.. Why would he run TOWARD cops after running away from them?!.. Also, tasing to avoid a physical incident!??..
These 2 things just don't make ANY sense to me.. Why would he run TOWARD cops after running away from them?!.. Also, tasing to avoid a physical incident!??..
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Damien
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,323
Likes โข 283
July 2008
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Damien on Aug 8, 2013 11:15:06 GMT 1, These 2 things just don't make ANY sense to me.. Why would he run TOWARD cops after running away from them?!.. Also, tasing to avoid a physical incident!??.. he only weighed about 12stone by looks of it, british police would of just grabbed him
These 2 things just don't make ANY sense to me.. Why would he run TOWARD cops after running away from them?!.. Also, tasing to avoid a physical incident!??.. he only weighed about 12stone by looks of it, british police would of just grabbed him
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tomega
New Member
Posts โข 91
Likes โข 56
October 2007
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by tomega on Aug 8, 2013 12:14:30 GMT 1, This young man hadn't killed, injured or threatened anyone. He was being pursued because of graffiti crime. Doubtless the police, each and every one of them, weighed at least double (more likely triple) the weight of 17 year old Israel Hernandez-Llach so when Israel ran at them (not brandishing anything, not even a twig) why didn't they just grapple him to the floor - likely just one of them could have done it? No, they had to use a Taser simply because they have lost the ability to think and react to each and every situation according to circumstance. No one should die at 17 and certainly not as a result of expressing oneself through graffiti - even if it is illegal, very sad indeed. Based on what's been reported police tactics have brought about a needless death.
This young man hadn't killed, injured or threatened anyone. He was being pursued because of graffiti crime. Doubtless the police, each and every one of them, weighed at least double (more likely triple) the weight of 17 year old Israel Hernandez-Llach so when Israel ran at them (not brandishing anything, not even a twig) why didn't they just grapple him to the floor - likely just one of them could have done it? No, they had to use a Taser simply because they have lost the ability to think and react to each and every situation according to circumstance. No one should die at 17 and certainly not as a result of expressing oneself through graffiti - even if it is illegal, very sad indeed. Based on what's been reported police tactics have brought about a needless death.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 12:17:17 GMT 1, I hope this is just the horribly sad start to a better story. It's much to soon, and insensitive, to say that Israel's life was wasted. I'd like to think that the family and community can turn his life into something that does amazing things. There are lots of issues involved in his death that are just plain wrong and it would be nice to see these issues addressed so something like this won't just happen again.
I hope this is just the horribly sad start to a better story. It's much to soon, and insensitive, to say that Israel's life was wasted. I'd like to think that the family and community can turn his life into something that does amazing things. There are lots of issues involved in his death that are just plain wrong and it would be nice to see these issues addressed so something like this won't just happen again.
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Zippy
Junior Member
Posts โข 6,667
Likes โข 2,483
April 2006
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Zippy on Aug 8, 2013 12:21:18 GMT 1, very, very sad. these para's stand out from the news story...
Tracy West, a parent who knew Hernandez-Llach well, said he was a โfantastic person and artist.โ He was very thin, almost fragile, she said, hardly capable of posing a threat to police.
โHe had been warned before by police that if they caught him again they would beat the s--- out of him,โโ West said. โHe could not have done anything. All he thought about was art.โโ
Read more here: www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779_p2/graffiti-artist-dies-after-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
very, very sad. these para's stand out from the news story... Tracy West, a parent who knew Hernandez-Llach well, said he was a โfantastic person and artist.โ He was very thin, almost fragile, she said, hardly capable of posing a threat to police.
โHe had been warned before by police that if they caught him again they would beat the s--- out of him,โโ West said. โHe could not have done anything. All he thought about was art.โโ
Read more here: www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779_p2/graffiti-artist-dies-after-tasering.html#storylink=cpy
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dotdot
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,647
Likes โข 1,027
December 2006
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by dotdot on Aug 8, 2013 12:33:29 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back.
find another forum you sad ..very sad person.
mods - remove this person.
..
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. find another forum you sad ..very sad person. mods - remove this person. ..
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Coach on Aug 8, 2013 12:36:23 GMT 1, Very sad to read this. I guess we'll have to see what comes out after the inquest. If he did (and note I'm saying IF) charge at the Police then that could easily be seen as a just cause for them to taser him. At the moment all I've seen is the report above so it wouldn't be right for me or anyone to say this is definitely what happened though. Regardless of what happened this is a very sad story and not one that any of us like to read.
You are of course right, my friend, we don't know anywhere near all the facts. It's for that reason that I was careful to use the word "may". I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that this is a tragic event.
Very sad to read this. I guess we'll have to see what comes out after the inquest. If he did (and note I'm saying IF) charge at the Police then that could easily be seen as a just cause for them to taser him. At the moment all I've seen is the report above so it wouldn't be right for me or anyone to say this is definitely what happened though. Regardless of what happened this is a very sad story and not one that any of us like to read. You are of course right, my friend, we don't know anywhere near all the facts. It's for that reason that I was careful to use the word "may". I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that this is a tragic event.
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Coach on Aug 8, 2013 12:39:35 GMT 1, What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. find another forum you sad ..very sad person. mods - remove this person. ..
Whilst I don't agree with what plush said, I would hate to see anyone removed for expressing an opinion (usual exceptions apply).
What news are you trying to get out? That street painting on private property is illegal? From the story he was cornered and charge police who had instructed him to stop? Thus they tased him in the chest? Sad story, but it is not like they shot him in the back. find another forum you sad ..very sad person. mods - remove this person. .. Whilst I don't agree with what plush said, I would hate to see anyone removed for expressing an opinion (usual exceptions apply).
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by saint on Aug 8, 2013 13:13:47 GMT 1, sad sad story.
heres more info.
Update: Here's the full statement from Chief Raymond Martinez:
At 5:14 a.m. on August 6, 2013, Miami Beach Police Officers observed a subject vandalizing private property (graffiti) on 71st Street and Collins Avenue. As Officers approached, the subject fled the scene, ensuing a foot pursuit by Officers. During the foot pursuit, the subject encountered Officers face to face at 71st and Harding Avenue, and ignored Officers' commands to stop. In order to affect his arrest, an Officer deployed his conducted electrical weapon (TASER). The subject was placed into custody. Once in custody, the subject displayed signs of medical duress. Miami Beach Fire Rescue responded to the scene and transported the subject to Mount Sinai Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. The subject has been identified as Israel Hernandez.
At this time, the cause of death has not been determined by the Medical Examiner's Office. Autopsy and toxicology results are still pending as well.
This incident is an open and ongoing investigation.
The City of Miami Beach would like to extend their condolences to the family of Israel Hernandez.
The graffiti in question?
Update 2: Riptide has photos of the graffiti that got Hernandez killed. It's a single letter: "R." And it's painted on a dilapidated former McDonalds covered in graffiti and posters
From here. blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2013/08/teenager_israel_hernandez_tase.php
sad sad story. heres more info. Update: Here's the full statement from Chief Raymond Martinez: At 5:14 a.m. on August 6, 2013, Miami Beach Police Officers observed a subject vandalizing private property (graffiti) on 71st Street and Collins Avenue. As Officers approached, the subject fled the scene, ensuing a foot pursuit by Officers. During the foot pursuit, the subject encountered Officers face to face at 71st and Harding Avenue, and ignored Officers' commands to stop. In order to affect his arrest, an Officer deployed his conducted electrical weapon (TASER). The subject was placed into custody. Once in custody, the subject displayed signs of medical duress. Miami Beach Fire Rescue responded to the scene and transported the subject to Mount Sinai Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. The subject has been identified as Israel Hernandez. At this time, the cause of death has not been determined by the Medical Examiner's Office. Autopsy and toxicology results are still pending as well. This incident is an open and ongoing investigation. The City of Miami Beach would like to extend their condolences to the family of Israel Hernandez. The graffiti in question? Update 2: Riptide has photos of the graffiti that got Hernandez killed. It's a single letter: "R." And it's painted on a dilapidated former McDonalds covered in graffiti and posters From here. blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2013/08/teenager_israel_hernandez_tase.php
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by saint on Aug 8, 2013 13:17:20 GMT 1, PS as Coach says you can't ban someone for their opinions, but you certainly can regard them as a total cunt.
PS as Coach says you can't ban someone for their opinions, but you certainly can regard them as a total cunt.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by johnnyh on Aug 8, 2013 13:25:56 GMT 1, Wow that's amazing it was pretty bad before but this really is inincredible thx Saint and agree with all your additional points.
Wow that's amazing it was pretty bad before but this really is inincredible thx Saint and agree with all your additional points.
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Baby Dave
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,392
Likes โข 321
February 2011
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Street Artist Killed by Police (Please Share), by Baby Dave on Aug 8, 2013 14:05:27 GMT 1, Very sad indeed. I will be interested to hear what the autopsy and toxicology reports show. Sometimes the states can be a bit Wild West like. Tasers, guns, batons and OC Spray all drawn and used at the drop of a hat. The youngest person to be tasered was in America and she was 7 years old. Ultimately it was seen to be a justified use of force....I think that's another debate tho.
It's down to the officer to justify his actions and down to their governing body (not sure what the IPCC equivalent is over there is.... Internal affairs?), to decide whether it was lawful, justified and proportionate.
As for the graffiti/writing/letter on a disused shutter...... Was a young lad getting tasered necessary? God no!!! According to the story published, he wasn't tasered for that. If, however, he displayed aggression or violence to the police, then there's the start of the officers justification for using that force. As other people have said, we don't know the full picture. Perhaps we never will.
Ultimately, someone has lost their life.
No matter what anyone says, and no matter what an individuals opinion is on the matter, I think we can all agree that it's a tragic set of circumstances.
The speculation over the who, what's, where's and whys should come out in the wash. No doubt a lengthy internal investigation where the result won't be published.
If anything I've written offends anyone or stirs up unrest, I apologise. I tend to play devils advocate in circumstances like this as I like to have a holistic picture before my pitch fork comes out.
Very sad indeed. I will be interested to hear what the autopsy and toxicology reports show. Sometimes the states can be a bit Wild West like. Tasers, guns, batons and OC Spray all drawn and used at the drop of a hat. The youngest person to be tasered was in America and she was 7 years old. Ultimately it was seen to be a justified use of force....I think that's another debate tho.
It's down to the officer to justify his actions and down to their governing body (not sure what the IPCC equivalent is over there is.... Internal affairs?), to decide whether it was lawful, justified and proportionate.
As for the graffiti/writing/letter on a disused shutter...... Was a young lad getting tasered necessary? God no!!! According to the story published, he wasn't tasered for that. If, however, he displayed aggression or violence to the police, then there's the start of the officers justification for using that force. As other people have said, we don't know the full picture. Perhaps we never will.
Ultimately, someone has lost their life.
No matter what anyone says, and no matter what an individuals opinion is on the matter, I think we can all agree that it's a tragic set of circumstances.
The speculation over the who, what's, where's and whys should come out in the wash. No doubt a lengthy internal investigation where the result won't be published.
If anything I've written offends anyone or stirs up unrest, I apologise. I tend to play devils advocate in circumstances like this as I like to have a holistic picture before my pitch fork comes out.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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