Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 1:51:41 GMT 1, I think the system we have is pretty fair, but we'll adjust as necessary. I definitely know what you're saying, but at the same time it will be hard to not give preference to someone who has consistently purchased/framed/hanged each print from the club. Not trying to make a club where half the people are sitting there with prints they don't want, but I doubt we'll get to see the image of the print before paying. Trading within the club, especially club-prints for club-prints, would seem like a less harmful thing. The problem arises when people try to "trade" them for more than cost to people outside the club, or for prints that were sold publicly, so hesitant to go that way. Basically, I don't really want these prints to have a secondary market value at all. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Maybe sell at cost to people on the waiting list, rather then trades? I see no problem with that at all. But obviously if a member is consistently paying/selling then it will raise questions as to if he/she's only cherry-picking artists and waiting for one special print, so yeah a lot of variables.
I think the system we have is pretty fair, but we'll adjust as necessary. I definitely know what you're saying, but at the same time it will be hard to not give preference to someone who has consistently purchased/framed/hanged each print from the club. Not trying to make a club where half the people are sitting there with prints they don't want, but I doubt we'll get to see the image of the print before paying. Trading within the club, especially club-prints for club-prints, would seem like a less harmful thing. The problem arises when people try to "trade" them for more than cost to people outside the club, or for prints that were sold publicly, so hesitant to go that way. Basically, I don't really want these prints to have a secondary market value at all. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. Maybe sell at cost to people on the waiting list, rather then trades? I see no problem with that at all. But obviously if a member is consistently paying/selling then it will raise questions as to if he/she's only cherry-picking artists and waiting for one special print, so yeah a lot of variables.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 1:53:43 GMT 1, If there is more than 50 people that want the print won't this be unfairly biased towards the timezone of the person running the club. For people who are generally sleeping while all the action goes on here and then come along later when its a reasonable local time. Would a lottery work for club members? By the way - I don't want to sound negative - I do think its a great initiative! I just want to get some things clear. Somewhere around late afternoon London time would give US folks a fair shot (5pm BST = 11am CST). We'd 100% announce the release time well in advance, and it would be as fair to the time zones of all participating members as possible. So if you want to buy the print, you would likely have an incredibly high chance of buying it at the release time.
Not trying to create sub-demand within the club; only trying to make sure that we actually have enough money to commission the work every time (trying to weed out stragglers). And we can always increase the edition size depending on number of members.
If there is more than 50 people that want the print won't this be unfairly biased towards the timezone of the person running the club. For people who are generally sleeping while all the action goes on here and then come along later when its a reasonable local time. Would a lottery work for club members? By the way - I don't want to sound negative - I do think its a great initiative! I just want to get some things clear. Somewhere around late afternoon London time would give US folks a fair shot (5pm BST = 11am CST). We'd 100% announce the release time well in advance, and it would be as fair to the time zones of all participating members as possible. So if you want to buy the print, you would likely have an incredibly high chance of buying it at the release time. Not trying to create sub-demand within the club; only trying to make sure that we actually have enough money to commission the work every time (trying to weed out stragglers). And we can always increase the edition size depending on number of members.
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cerulean
New Member
Posts โข 276
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July 2014
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by cerulean on Aug 5, 2014 1:53:52 GMT 1, Brilliant idea! I'm in.
Brilliant idea! I'm in.
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astrobboy
New Member
Posts โข 399
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September 2008
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by astrobboy on Aug 5, 2014 1:58:04 GMT 1, If there is more than 50 people that want the print won't this be unfairly biased towards the timezone of the person running the club. For people who are generally sleeping while all the action goes on here and then come along later when its a reasonable local time. Somewhere around late afternoon London time would give US folks a fair shot (5pm BST = 11am CST). I was thinking more about Australians than Americans
If there is more than 50 people that want the print won't this be unfairly biased towards the timezone of the person running the club. For people who are generally sleeping while all the action goes on here and then come along later when its a reasonable local time. Somewhere around late afternoon London time would give US folks a fair shot (5pm BST = 11am CST). I was thinking more about Australians than Americans
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 2:11:14 GMT 1, General Points/FAQs
Q: How will the release/buying process work? A: Ideally, we will announce the release time at least a week in advance, and acknowledge that all members are aware of the release time and consider it fair. You will likely only know the artist whose print you are commissioning, it is extremely unlikely that you will get to see the image in advance (entirely up to artist, and would likely only be possible if it was already an existing original, in which case the artist would probably be inclined not to share in advance). The first people to fill out the edition size with their payments to the pool manager will get the print. You should have an extremely, extremely high chance of attaining the print; we will try to accommodate as many members as possible while still ensuring that we can raise the funds to actually commission the print (there will always be a necessary gap so we can guarantee we have all the money for the commission).
Q: What about [insert artist name]? A: Great idea! So far, we're trying to form a group/club that all share interest in the same group of artists - any additional artists will have to be approved by the entire club, as they have entered based on their interests in the listed artists only. Highly recommended additions seem to include Stik and Ernest Zacharevic (please don't comment on if you approve of this or not yet, entirely speculative).
Q: I'd love to help! Is there any way I can? A: Yes! If you, or anyone, knows any of the artists listed in the commission thread, please PM me and include 'ARTIST CONNECT - [artist name]' in the subject line; this will greatly help expedite the process as you can imagine. Please include how you are affiliated with the artist, or what connection you have, so we can figure out the likelihood of a quick response, etc.
Q: Have you considered a test run as the first attempt with a non-listed artist? A: Yes, we are considering a test run with a lower print cost (circa $100-200); the artist, however, would need to be approved by all club members (and would have to be game themselves). Someone like Shepard Fairey - an artist that most seem to like and is used to charging low amounts for prints - may work, but again this is entirely speculative (and we have no connection to Shep, at all - feel free to PM if you do though). Have not considered at all how the test run would factor into the whole membership/point system or whatever; really not even a seed of an idea yet, just answering common questions
Q: I don't want to get kicked out of the club, but I don't think I want to buy the print this time. What do I do? A: Given the number of members, you likely won't get kicked out for not buying one print. That said, if you are consistently passing up prints from the listed artists then it will raise questions as to why you're in the club.
Q: What about a larger edition size? I'd love a larger edition size; originally I wanted to do editions of 100, but I wasn't sure if we could get the adequate number of members. If this grows, then we'll see.
General Points/FAQs
Q: How will the release/buying process work? A: Ideally, we will announce the release time at least a week in advance, and acknowledge that all members are aware of the release time and consider it fair. You will likely only know the artist whose print you are commissioning, it is extremely unlikely that you will get to see the image in advance (entirely up to artist, and would likely only be possible if it was already an existing original, in which case the artist would probably be inclined not to share in advance). The first people to fill out the edition size with their payments to the pool manager will get the print. You should have an extremely, extremely high chance of attaining the print; we will try to accommodate as many members as possible while still ensuring that we can raise the funds to actually commission the print (there will always be a necessary gap so we can guarantee we have all the money for the commission).
Q: What about [insert artist name]? A: Great idea! So far, we're trying to form a group/club that all share interest in the same group of artists - any additional artists will have to be approved by the entire club, as they have entered based on their interests in the listed artists only. Highly recommended additions seem to include Stik and Ernest Zacharevic (please don't comment on if you approve of this or not yet, entirely speculative).
Q: I'd love to help! Is there any way I can? A: Yes! If you, or anyone, knows any of the artists listed in the commission thread, please PM me and include 'ARTIST CONNECT - [artist name]' in the subject line; this will greatly help expedite the process as you can imagine. Please include how you are affiliated with the artist, or what connection you have, so we can figure out the likelihood of a quick response, etc.
Q: Have you considered a test run as the first attempt with a non-listed artist? A: Yes, we are considering a test run with a lower print cost (circa $100-200); the artist, however, would need to be approved by all club members (and would have to be game themselves). Someone like Shepard Fairey - an artist that most seem to like and is used to charging low amounts for prints - may work, but again this is entirely speculative (and we have no connection to Shep, at all - feel free to PM if you do though). Have not considered at all how the test run would factor into the whole membership/point system or whatever; really not even a seed of an idea yet, just answering common questions
Q: I don't want to get kicked out of the club, but I don't think I want to buy the print this time. What do I do? A: Given the number of members, you likely won't get kicked out for not buying one print. That said, if you are consistently passing up prints from the listed artists then it will raise questions as to why you're in the club.
Q: What about a larger edition size? I'd love a larger edition size; originally I wanted to do editions of 100, but I wasn't sure if we could get the adequate number of members. If this grows, then we'll see.
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stvro22
New Member
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February 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by stvro22 on Aug 5, 2014 2:31:27 GMT 1, dss111 I hope you have a lot of free time on your hands. Sounds like a nice idea but I see a headache in the making. I hope I'm wrong. Best of luck.
dss111 I hope you have a lot of free time on your hands. Sounds like a nice idea but I see a headache in the making. I hope I'm wrong. Best of luck.
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sipps
New Member
Posts โข 253
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November 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by sipps on Aug 5, 2014 2:31:30 GMT 1, signed - very cool idea.
signed - very cool idea.
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,458
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March 2014
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by WOOF on Aug 5, 2014 2:35:41 GMT 1, I'm just going to say I vote capping membership somewhere so this doesn't become yet another online drop style wait for the click endeavor.
I'm just going to say I vote capping membership somewhere so this doesn't become yet another online drop style wait for the click endeavor.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 2:36:12 GMT 1, Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects?
Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects?
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aberdoom
New Member
Posts โข 581
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May 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by aberdoom on Aug 5, 2014 2:40:00 GMT 1, Sounds like a great idea! PM'd!
Good luck with this dss111!!
Sounds like a great idea! PM'd!
Good luck with this dss111!!
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 2:40:20 GMT 1, Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects? We will organize it so there are no pending offers open to artists when we offer to another.
As for membership, I don't think we need to cap as we can adjust the edition size accordingly - if anything, more members will increase the likelihood of us getting prints from certain artists. That said, if it gets extremely out of hand I'll obviously cap, but I don't see any problem with having ~150 members and commissioning an edition of 100.
Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects? We will organize it so there are no pending offers open to artists when we offer to another. As for membership, I don't think we need to cap as we can adjust the edition size accordingly - if anything, more members will increase the likelihood of us getting prints from certain artists. That said, if it gets extremely out of hand I'll obviously cap, but I don't see any problem with having ~150 members and commissioning an edition of 100.
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natstan
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,806
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March 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by natstan on Aug 5, 2014 2:48:29 GMT 1, Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects?
Agree... Instead of going through all the trouble and end up with the worst case scenario of rejection by all those artists due to their own schedules.
Might it be better to get some kind of ok from the artist first? If you ask them all and only three get back to you then you know who might go along with the projects? Agree... Instead of going through all the trouble and end up with the worst case scenario of rejection by all those artists due to their own schedules.
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,458
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March 2014
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by WOOF on Aug 5, 2014 2:49:38 GMT 1, I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place?
I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place?
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 2:51:52 GMT 1, I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that.
I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that.
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,458
Likes โข 4,753
March 2014
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by WOOF on Aug 5, 2014 3:03:56 GMT 1, I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that. Maybe a dues based system would work best then?
I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that. Maybe a dues based system would work best then?
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nacional
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,734
Likes โข 227
August 2007
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by nacional on Aug 5, 2014 3:29:36 GMT 1, I'M IN PLEASE..
I'M IN PLEASE..
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doctor
New Member
Posts โข 308
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September 2012
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by doctor on Aug 5, 2014 3:33:26 GMT 1, I find your ideas intriguing, how do I sign up for your newsletter?
I find your ideas intriguing, how do I sign up for your newsletter?
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Dungle
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,994
Likes โข 5,127
June 2011
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Dungle on Aug 5, 2014 3:46:59 GMT 1, I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that. I disagree. If you have 50 reliable people as members you won't need more members. We're talking about getting probably 1 or 2 prints a year at 300 quid each. You can always have a reserve list of say 20 people waiting to join the club who a print get offered to if a member can't buy. But the core should be set around 50 people who can be relied on. Edition sizes don't vary and keeping things organised is a hell of a lot easier, plus if you're in he club you are guaranteed a print, no some drop style release.
I'm just saying the whole point of a commission group is to buy into the print. If we commission 50 less than the group size and everyone decides they wants one, then what was the point of being in the group in the first place? We'll always need to have more members than the edition size in order to ensure that we can actually fund the print when we extend the offer. Will try to make edition sizes so as many as possible in the club get the print while still ensuring that. I disagree. If you have 50 reliable people as members you won't need more members. We're talking about getting probably 1 or 2 prints a year at 300 quid each. You can always have a reserve list of say 20 people waiting to join the club who a print get offered to if a member can't buy. But the core should be set around 50 people who can be relied on. Edition sizes don't vary and keeping things organised is a hell of a lot easier, plus if you're in he club you are guaranteed a print, no some drop style release.
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cashewman
New Member
Posts โข 184
Likes โข 255
September 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by cashewman on Aug 5, 2014 4:14:19 GMT 1, Stupid question, but why can't the edition size just be the number of members who want it, and commit with $ before a given deadline? Like a good old fashioned timed release, but within the group? If a minimum hits (that makes the artist happy), then it tips, and gets done.
Then everyone's happy.
Awesome project, hope it works out.
Not sure these are as popular on these boards, but I'd add Retna and Geddes as wish list, and maybe Remi Rough or Roamcouch as potentially lower cost options (RR anyway).
+1 on Invader, Faile,
...and Eine?
PRI NTC LUB
B
Stupid question, but why can't the edition size just be the number of members who want it, and commit with $ before a given deadline? Like a good old fashioned timed release, but within the group? If a minimum hits (that makes the artist happy), then it tips, and gets done. Then everyone's happy. Awesome project, hope it works out. Not sure these are as popular on these boards, but I'd add Retna and Geddes as wish list, and maybe Remi Rough or Roamcouch as potentially lower cost options (RR anyway). +1 on Invader, Faile, ...and Eine? PRI NTC LUB B
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 4:40:45 GMT 1, We'll figure out the logistics later on; definitely not trying to deprive anyone in the club of the commissioned prints. Only trying to get the group together for now.
I also think it may be difficult to have 50 reliable people willing to fund the project in advance before an artist is even announced, especially on a consistent basis; if I'm proven wrong then that's awesome.
Something like a timed release could work, although that could lead to a cherry-picking problem. And a prime list vs. waiting list situation kind of already deprives the waiting list members of the print to start off; basically a lot of variables I need to consider. The whole point of this is for everyone in the club to get a print for the wall, so whatever system can best achieve that is what we will use.
I'm sure a lot of the variables will depend on the artist as well; we're pretty much at their mercy.
Will discuss all of these details when we get to e-mail thread level and figure out how many people, etc. are in the group.
We'll figure out the logistics later on; definitely not trying to deprive anyone in the club of the commissioned prints. Only trying to get the group together for now.
I also think it may be difficult to have 50 reliable people willing to fund the project in advance before an artist is even announced, especially on a consistent basis; if I'm proven wrong then that's awesome.
Something like a timed release could work, although that could lead to a cherry-picking problem. And a prime list vs. waiting list situation kind of already deprives the waiting list members of the print to start off; basically a lot of variables I need to consider. The whole point of this is for everyone in the club to get a print for the wall, so whatever system can best achieve that is what we will use.
I'm sure a lot of the variables will depend on the artist as well; we're pretty much at their mercy.
Will discuss all of these details when we get to e-mail thread level and figure out how many people, etc. are in the group.
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Shoeless
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,105
Likes โข 613
February 2011
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Shoeless on Aug 5, 2014 4:58:25 GMT 1, At this point, do you have a rough idea of the number of interested members?
At this point, do you have a rough idea of the number of interested members?
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gatecrasher
New Member
Posts โข 687
Likes โข 560
December 2012
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by gatecrasher on Aug 5, 2014 5:43:43 GMT 1, Great idea. Messaged
Great idea. Messaged
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Gunny
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,576
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July 2012
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Gunny on Aug 5, 2014 5:56:22 GMT 1, Good idea!
Good idea!
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jlf
New Member
Posts โข 447
Likes โข 216
July 2014
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by jlf on Aug 5, 2014 5:58:58 GMT 1, I like the sound of this, PM sent
I like the sound of this, PM sent
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aberdoom
New Member
Posts โข 581
Likes โข 557
May 2013
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by aberdoom on Aug 5, 2014 6:09:22 GMT 1, Only page 3 and you can already see this getting difficult!!! Be interesting to see how this pans out! But again good on dss111 for trying!!
Only page 3 and you can already see this getting difficult!!! Be interesting to see how this pans out! But again good on dss111 for trying!!
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 6:23:18 GMT 1, At the end of the day, will be trying to make as close to 100% of members feel satisfied as possible. I know the concept of an open release seems easy, but it's ultimately at the artist's discretion (as is edition size, etc.); I think something coming of the group is much better than nothing.
If you happen to miss one print, you can always get the next - we can set up a system to determine people that genuinely tried and couldn't get it (and will also set up a system where this can almost never happen).
The most important thing to maintain is the integrity of the group, which is why I really don't think we can expect every member to pay (i.e. have the edition size be the number of members); it's just not realistic. We can discuss this, but basically if we extend an offer and then have to double-back on it because the edition size changed or anything, then any potential for future artists to join the project will likely be ruined (really the whole thing would be done since we'd have no credibility).
If the majority of the group disagrees, and is willing to pay upfront before we even reach out to the artists, then I'm fine with that and we can try to lock in an edition size that covers literally everyone; that said, we cannot make offers to artists when we don't 100% know that we will have the funds to cover the entire edition we're commission. IMO we need to provide them with a tangible offer from the start in order to have a realistic chance. We will always include the 'timed edition' option as a choice in the offer, but I can see how many artists would not want to do this.
At the end of the day, will be trying to make as close to 100% of members feel satisfied as possible. I know the concept of an open release seems easy, but it's ultimately at the artist's discretion (as is edition size, etc.); I think something coming of the group is much better than nothing.
If you happen to miss one print, you can always get the next - we can set up a system to determine people that genuinely tried and couldn't get it (and will also set up a system where this can almost never happen).
The most important thing to maintain is the integrity of the group, which is why I really don't think we can expect every member to pay (i.e. have the edition size be the number of members); it's just not realistic. We can discuss this, but basically if we extend an offer and then have to double-back on it because the edition size changed or anything, then any potential for future artists to join the project will likely be ruined (really the whole thing would be done since we'd have no credibility).
If the majority of the group disagrees, and is willing to pay upfront before we even reach out to the artists, then I'm fine with that and we can try to lock in an edition size that covers literally everyone; that said, we cannot make offers to artists when we don't 100% know that we will have the funds to cover the entire edition we're commission. IMO we need to provide them with a tangible offer from the start in order to have a realistic chance. We will always include the 'timed edition' option as a choice in the offer, but I can see how many artists would not want to do this.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 6:27:24 GMT 1, And # of members is about to hit 100. Will probably cap at 150-200 if it gets to that (plus still need to sort through all the people to make sure everyone's nice and tidy).
And # of members is about to hit 100. Will probably cap at 150-200 if it gets to that (plus still need to sort through all the people to make sure everyone's nice and tidy).
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M
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,998
Likes โข 581
February 2011
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by M on Aug 5, 2014 7:12:28 GMT 1, And # of members is about to hit 100. Will probably cap at 150-200 if it gets to that (plus still need to sort through all the people to make sure everyone's nice and tidy). i signed up but i'm afraid we will create just another elite in the art world. I don't know it's the best way to be fair but let's see...
And # of members is about to hit 100. Will probably cap at 150-200 if it gets to that (plus still need to sort through all the people to make sure everyone's nice and tidy). i signed up but i'm afraid we will create just another elite in the art world. I don't know it's the best way to be fair but let's see...
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LAZAKY
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,499
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August 2012
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by LAZAKY on Aug 5, 2014 7:24:04 GMT 1, Signed up!
If you need to contact any French artist let me know, I don't have special connects with top 5 artist but I could help!
Signed up! If you need to contact any French artist let me know, I don't have special connects with top 5 artist but I could help!
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PRINT COMMISSION CLUB - Seed Thread, by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 7:41:16 GMT 1, I need some of this in my life. PM sent! Going to be great if it works!
I need some of this in my life. PM sent! Going to be great if it works!
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