saucyjack
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November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 6, 2016 23:30:10 GMT 1, Thanks Mojo, I really like this:
"In a nutshell physics and sweat did it and PR picks up the tab."
So true.
And we, the consumers, are the third step in that process. Money goes backwards after that and the process starts again.
Until...
Thanks Mojo, I really like this: "In a nutshell physics and sweat did it and PR picks up the tab." So true. And we, the consumers, are the third step in that process. Money goes backwards after that and the process starts again. Until...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 23:37:02 GMT 1, I see nothing wrong in being clever and making money out of art.
Warhol did it but not at Banksy's level. Warhol print prices were affordable and he also went out of fashion and prices dropped.
Banksy has taken it to the very high prices very fast but Hirst did it too, and lucky that brokers and hedge funds were making zillions in profit just before Fanny Mac or whover went tits up.
The serious money is always there regarding the millionaires and billionaires
Better to put fifty million in a painting and store it in a vault than pay tax .
The attraction of the art market today is that so much is an unknown quantity. Things seem to go out of fashion very fast and people move on to the next thing. That can be exciting to some.
I see nothing wrong in being clever and making money out of art.
Warhol did it but not at Banksy's level. Warhol print prices were affordable and he also went out of fashion and prices dropped.
Banksy has taken it to the very high prices very fast but Hirst did it too, and lucky that brokers and hedge funds were making zillions in profit just before Fanny Mac or whover went tits up.
The serious money is always there regarding the millionaires and billionaires
Better to put fifty million in a painting and store it in a vault than pay tax .
The attraction of the art market today is that so much is an unknown quantity. Things seem to go out of fashion very fast and people move on to the next thing. That can be exciting to some.
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saucyjack
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November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 6, 2016 23:43:59 GMT 1, The laundering of money is another thing all together. Don't want to open Pandora's Box here. Perhaps I'll start another thread on the matter because I find it absolutely fascinating.
The laundering of money is another thing all together. Don't want to open Pandora's Box here. Perhaps I'll start another thread on the matter because I find it absolutely fascinating.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 23:50:36 GMT 1, The laundering of money is another thing all together. Don't want to open Pandora's Box here. Perhaps I'll start another thread on the matter because I find it absolutely fascinating. I don't think it influences or is involved in PR.
One could pay an auction house with a suitcase of cash before. I don't know if they still accept cash.
Every country has their art stars and as with the Chinese art trend a decade ago with contemporary Chinese paintings and art selling for very high prices at auction houses. Chinese art seemed to be the in thing for a while and heavily promoted.
The laundering of money is another thing all together. Don't want to open Pandora's Box here. Perhaps I'll start another thread on the matter because I find it absolutely fascinating. I don't think it influences or is involved in PR. One could pay an auction house with a suitcase of cash before. I don't know if they still accept cash. Every country has their art stars and as with the Chinese art trend a decade ago with contemporary Chinese paintings and art selling for very high prices at auction houses. Chinese art seemed to be the in thing for a while and heavily promoted.
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met
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June 2009
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by met on Jan 7, 2016 6:36:02 GMT 1, Re Street/Urban Art and PR. Basically, if you want to transcend the cultures media and want to be seen in the tabloids and/or broadsheets, you generally need to pay a PR company, and it's still not guaranteed. If you're part of the culture, depending on what's happening that particular month, you'll get online coverage from Juxtapoz, Arrested Motion, Widewalls, Vandalog etc etc based on friendships and/or the journalists/magazines interests. Click bait items such as the "largest" the "loudest" the most "daring" etc etc will obviously get you broader coverage. Everything you've ever read in The Mail, The Times, The Guardian etc about street or urban art, has been paid for through a 3rd party. A middleman to "protect" supposed journalistic ethics. I have noticed what appears to be some evidence of this. Articles about Bambi in particular immediately come to mind.
However, the reference to "Everything you've ever read..." feels overly sweeping and inaccurate to me. This is just an impression, as I don't personally know any of the journalists.
Re Street/Urban Art and PR. Basically, if you want to transcend the cultures media and want to be seen in the tabloids and/or broadsheets, you generally need to pay a PR company, and it's still not guaranteed. If you're part of the culture, depending on what's happening that particular month, you'll get online coverage from Juxtapoz, Arrested Motion, Widewalls, Vandalog etc etc based on friendships and/or the journalists/magazines interests. Click bait items such as the "largest" the "loudest" the most "daring" etc etc will obviously get you broader coverage. Everything you've ever read in The Mail, The Times, The Guardian etc about street or urban art, has been paid for through a 3rd party. A middleman to "protect" supposed journalistic ethics.I have noticed what appears to be some evidence of this. Articles about Bambi in particular immediately come to mind. However, the reference to "Everything you've ever read..." feels overly sweeping and inaccurate to me. This is just an impression, as I don't personally know any of the journalists.
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Lroy on Jan 7, 2016 7:31:26 GMT 1, Wow ! Great PR already on this thread !( Saucyjack is on the party )! : 3. Full pages of comments in a ( small ) night !! The record ?
Wow ! Great PR already on this thread !( Saucyjack is on the party )! : 3. Full pages of comments in a ( small ) night !! The record ?
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met
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June 2009
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by met on Jan 7, 2016 7:44:11 GMT 1, street art? it's complicated... Action time, location (country), etc. systems. in my country, street art (templates) are the years 1980-1989 the struggle against communism Spray = fight = anticommunism - it was 100% !!
penalty: prison, no school (no future), no jobs, no money ... nobody.. -classics from the 80s ps. and I'll tell you one thing: Communism watched in my life and I see great similarities to the present time ... and now mates with street art galleries invited by left-wing and financed by taxes (the unemployed and the very poor people), it is amazing! greetings to Mr. Stik ... (sorry OK- I know that you do not know .. )
That's interesting to see and read, including the images in your previous post on this thread. Many thanks.
Staying momentarily on this tangent, although competing ideologies, I don't see communism and fascism as being on opposite poles of the spectrum. For me, Left versus Right is less relevant and apt than the difference between those of a totalitarian mindset โ whether communists, fascists or religious fundamentalists โ and freethinkers sharing liberal and democratic values.
When the French Communist Party was haemorrhaging voters in the 80s, 90s and 2000s, its former supporters weren't just turning towards the Socialist Party; a large portion switched to the National Front. There may be less of a straight line separating Left and Right than a circle where the far ends meet. This isn't surprising โ extremism tends to attract similar kinds of individuals. Very often, they come across as inexperienced or unintelligent, those only looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
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I'm the son of a militant who's been trying to defend against, undermine and fight communists for over four decades. His side of the family generally came from teaching or military backgrounds. Consequently, they're all too familiar with post-war, sustained political repression and the institutionalised settling of scores โ including years in "re-education camps" (one of my favourite euphemisms, along with "collateral damage"), blocked access to higher education and many professions, and all the rest that is par for the course, or mundane, when living under a totalitarian regime and viewed even as a potential threat. As your post seems to confirm, things were quite similar under Jaruzelski.
This may be one reason why, whenever I see attempts to censor or curb open discussion here โ whether through bullying, the descent into personal insults, or the use of certain terminology (like "troublemaker") intended to isolate those with different opinions โ I find it seriously grating.
Freedom of expression needs to be fought for and protected, because it doesn't really exist on social media platforms, as referred to in this post.
On a forum dedicated to street art and graffiti (and not just the monetisation of these genres), people should be encouraged to question everything. Their own truths included. And to consider the truths of others, especially inconvenient or uncomfortable ones, in a fair and open-minded manner.
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If someone doesn't like what another member has to say, they have grown-up options at their disposal:
(i) debate the actual issue(s), without resorting to ad hominem arguments or other intellectually dishonest tactics meant to distract or to constantly shift the conversation goalposts;
(ii) skip over the posts by that other member (as I do with many, due to lack of time and the need to prioritise); or
(iii) go to that other member's profile and, in the 'Profile Options' drop-down menu, click 'Block Member'.
No one needs to take part in a discussion if they don't want to. That is their right. Conversely, they should respect the rights of others who do wish to engage.
street art? it's complicated... Action time, location (country), etc. systems. in my country, street art (templates) are the years 1980-1989 the struggle against communism Spray = fight = anticommunism - it was 100% !!
penalty: prison, no school (no future), no jobs, no money ... nobody.. -classics from the 80s ps. and I'll tell you one thing: Communism watched in my life and I see great similarities to the present time ... and now mates with street art galleries invited by left-wing and financed by taxes (the unemployed and the very poor people), it is amazing! greetings to Mr. Stik ... (sorry OK- I know that you do not know .. ) That's interesting to see and read, including the images in your previous post on this thread. Many thanks. Staying momentarily on this tangent, although competing ideologies, I don't see communism and fascism as being on opposite poles of the spectrum. For me, Left versus Right is less relevant and apt than the difference between those of a totalitarian mindset โ whether communists, fascists or religious fundamentalists โ and freethinkers sharing liberal and democratic values. When the French Communist Party was haemorrhaging voters in the 80s, 90s and 2000s, its former supporters weren't just turning towards the Socialist Party; a large portion switched to the National Front. There may be less of a straight line separating Left and Right than a circle where the far ends meet. This isn't surprising โ extremism tends to attract similar kinds of individuals. Very often, they come across as inexperienced or unintelligent, those only looking for simple solutions to complex problems. ---------- I'm the son of a militant who's been trying to defend against, undermine and fight communists for over four decades. His side of the family generally came from teaching or military backgrounds. Consequently, they're all too familiar with post-war, sustained political repression and the institutionalised settling of scores โ including years in "re-education camps" (one of my favourite euphemisms, along with "collateral damage"), blocked access to higher education and many professions, and all the rest that is par for the course, or mundane, when living under a totalitarian regime and viewed even as a potential threat. As your post seems to confirm, things were quite similar under Jaruzelski. This may be one reason why, whenever I see attempts to censor or curb open discussion here โ whether through bullying, the descent into personal insults, or the use of certain terminology (like "troublemaker") intended to isolate those with different opinions โ I find it seriously grating. Freedom of expression needs to be fought for and protected, because it doesn't really exist on social media platforms, as referred to in this post. On a forum dedicated to street art and graffiti (and not just the monetisation of these genres), people should be encouraged to question everything. Their own truths included. And to consider the truths of others, especially inconvenient or uncomfortable ones, in a fair and open-minded manner. ---------- If someone doesn't like what another member has to say, they have grown-up options at their disposal: (i) debate the actual issue(s), without resorting to ad hominem arguments or other intellectually dishonest tactics meant to distract or to constantly shift the conversation goalposts; (ii) skip over the posts by that other member (as I do with many, due to lack of time and the need to prioritise); or (iii) go to that other member's profile and, in the 'Profile Options' drop-down menu, click 'Block Member'. No one needs to take part in a discussion if they don't want to. That is their right. Conversely, they should respect the rights of others who do wish to engage.
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saucyjack
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November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 7, 2016 7:48:37 GMT 1, It really is an interesting subject.
I hope there are more contributors in the future. I am sure there are people who would like to share articles or videos on the subject. I've already been taken into directions I haven't considered yet.
It's good to question and reflect. I've learned a lot that way.
It really is an interesting subject.
I hope there are more contributors in the future. I am sure there are people who would like to share articles or videos on the subject. I've already been taken into directions I haven't considered yet.
It's good to question and reflect. I've learned a lot that way.
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met
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June 2009
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by met on Jan 7, 2016 8:20:42 GMT 1, Well well.. meow! Ok, lets test it... show me one piece of street art that is not an advertisement. I think the problem is you associate the word "advertisement" with something bad, or wanting to sell something. But that is not always the case. Advertising is telling a story, propaganda, for a opinion, a feeling, anything really. An artist want's to tell you something, surprise you, give an opinion, or give you a feeling. Any artwork the artist makes on the streets is an advertisement for the thing he or she wants to get across to the beholder. Totally agree. I enjoy many of your posts and will disagree with you here.
To argue "Street Art = Advertising", on the basis that advertising is "anything really", is pretty much an admission that the original statement is meaningless โ because everything can then be considered advertising.
If this is truly the position, the original statement also becomes pointless, since the term "advertising" ceases to retain any specific or commonly-agreed meaning.
Well well.. meow! Ok, lets test it... show me one piece of street art that is not an advertisement. I think the problem is you associate the word "advertisement" with something bad, or wanting to sell something. But that is not always the case. Advertising is telling a story, propaganda, for a opinion, a feeling, anything really. An artist want's to tell you something, surprise you, give an opinion, or give you a feeling. Any artwork the artist makes on the streets is an advertisement for the thing he or she wants to get across to the beholder. Totally agree. I enjoy many of your posts and will disagree with you here. To argue "Street Art = Advertising", on the basis that advertising is "anything really", is pretty much an admission that the original statement is meaningless โ because everything can then be considered advertising. If this is truly the position, the original statement also becomes pointless, since the term "advertising" ceases to retain any specific or commonly-agreed meaning.
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saucyjack
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November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 7, 2016 8:31:24 GMT 1, When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right?
The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word.
When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right?
The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word.
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Lroy on Jan 7, 2016 8:37:38 GMT 1,
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Dr Plip
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August 2011
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Dr Plip on Jan 7, 2016 10:12:39 GMT 1, I would agree that tagging could be considered as "promotion", but unless we redefine what advertising means, it can only really be called advertising once the tagger/artist has something to sell. And I think once a street artist starts selling, people can understandably become more cynical about their work. When does a new mural stop becoming an attractive piece of art and become an advert for their latest print release? But there's a difference between taggers and street artists. Very few taggers go on to sell their work. And you're not selling your name until you actually have something to sell (and have sold something).
You can certainly blur those lines between promotion and advertising though. We live in a cynical age, where we're lied to daily. It depends on how cynical you want to be and what the artist's motivations are. I think though if I'm too cynical, I run the risk of devaluing an artist's work and making a right tit of myself on art forums and at gallery openings.
Anyway, I've lost my point now. I'm going to go back to looking at pictures of Rose Wylie.
I would agree that tagging could be considered as "promotion", but unless we redefine what advertising means, it can only really be called advertising once the tagger/artist has something to sell. And I think once a street artist starts selling, people can understandably become more cynical about their work. When does a new mural stop becoming an attractive piece of art and become an advert for their latest print release? But there's a difference between taggers and street artists. Very few taggers go on to sell their work. And you're not selling your name until you actually have something to sell (and have sold something).
You can certainly blur those lines between promotion and advertising though. We live in a cynical age, where we're lied to daily. It depends on how cynical you want to be and what the artist's motivations are. I think though if I'm too cynical, I run the risk of devaluing an artist's work and making a right tit of myself on art forums and at gallery openings.
Anyway, I've lost my point now. I'm going to go back to looking at pictures of Rose Wylie.
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Coach on Jan 7, 2016 10:13:51 GMT 1, When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word.
I'm respect of yiur two question: Wrong No
When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word. I'm respect of yiur two question: Wrong No
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Dr Plip
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August 2011
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Dr Plip on Jan 7, 2016 10:30:19 GMT 1, And before anyone starts getting all touchy and PMs me about the "tit" comment, I was genuinely referring to myself and not alluding to anyone on here.
Edit: Well.................I'm on here. You know what I mean.
And before anyone starts getting all touchy and PMs me about the "tit" comment, I was genuinely referring to myself and not alluding to anyone on here.
Edit: Well.................I'm on here. You know what I mean.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 11:04:07 GMT 1, Re Street/Urban Art and PR. Basically, if you want to transcend the cultures media and want to be seen in the tabloids and/or broadsheets, you generally need to pay a PR company, and it's still not guaranteed. If you're part of the culture, depending on what's happening that particular month, you'll get online coverage from Juxtapoz, Arrested Motion, Widewalls, Vandalog etc etc based on friendships and/or the journalists/magazines interests. Click bait items such as the "largest" the "loudest" the most "daring" etc etc will obviously get you broader coverage. Everything you've ever read in The Mail, The Times, The Guardian etc about street or urban art, has been paid for through a 3rd party. A middleman to "protect" supposed journalistic ethics.I have noticed what appears to be some evidence of this. Articles about Bambi in particular immediately come to mind. However, the reference to "Everything you've ever read..." feels overly sweeping and inaccurate to me. This is just an impression, as I don't personally know any of the journalists. I met a few London based journalists.
One asked me why do I think that some papers continually have photos of for example a fashion model or singer or minor celebrity.
The reason was because the people who own the papers editors etc and others have a financial interest etc in the person or people they big up constantly.
Jornalism these days is not a sin the past.
Today on all the major News channels the presentors presnt their opinions to a lot of news stories and it's biased.
Re Street/Urban Art and PR. Basically, if you want to transcend the cultures media and want to be seen in the tabloids and/or broadsheets, you generally need to pay a PR company, and it's still not guaranteed. If you're part of the culture, depending on what's happening that particular month, you'll get online coverage from Juxtapoz, Arrested Motion, Widewalls, Vandalog etc etc based on friendships and/or the journalists/magazines interests. Click bait items such as the "largest" the "loudest" the most "daring" etc etc will obviously get you broader coverage. Everything you've ever read in The Mail, The Times, The Guardian etc about street or urban art, has been paid for through a 3rd party. A middleman to "protect" supposed journalistic ethics.I have noticed what appears to be some evidence of this. Articles about Bambi in particular immediately come to mind. However, the reference to "Everything you've ever read..." feels overly sweeping and inaccurate to me. This is just an impression, as I don't personally know any of the journalists. I met a few London based journalists. One asked me why do I think that some papers continually have photos of for example a fashion model or singer or minor celebrity. The reason was because the people who own the papers editors etc and others have a financial interest etc in the person or people they big up constantly. Jornalism these days is not a sin the past. Today on all the major News channels the presentors presnt their opinions to a lot of news stories and it's biased.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 11:15:09 GMT 1, When we refer to tagging, does that include your 'Wild Style' type pieces? I differentiate that from basic text tagging. To me basic text tagging is just vandalism and basically a competition to spray in as many places as possible and the most daring places. It is advertising in a way but most aren't doing it to sell anything, just their reputation. IMHO it isn't pretty and detracts from the environment rather than some of the more elaborate tagging and streetart which can add something.
In regards to PR it's one that eludes me with a lot of art. What makes one mans work worth millions when most of us can do the same or better? Is it because they were first? Did they have a certain piece of work or event that made them? e.g. Won Turner Prize, bought by Saatchi?........
We should do a PR test. Let's hype ploppi and a prize to whomever gets him the best exposure.
When we refer to tagging, does that include your 'Wild Style' type pieces? I differentiate that from basic text tagging. To me basic text tagging is just vandalism and basically a competition to spray in as many places as possible and the most daring places. It is advertising in a way but most aren't doing it to sell anything, just their reputation. IMHO it isn't pretty and detracts from the environment rather than some of the more elaborate tagging and streetart which can add something.
In regards to PR it's one that eludes me with a lot of art. What makes one mans work worth millions when most of us can do the same or better? Is it because they were first? Did they have a certain piece of work or event that made them? e.g. Won Turner Prize, bought by Saatchi?........
We should do a PR test. Let's hype ploppi and a prize to whomever gets him the best exposure.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 11:51:05 GMT 1, When we refer to tagging, does that include your 'Wild Style' type pieces? I differentiate that from basic text tagging. To me basic text tagging is just vandalism and basically a competition to spray in as many places as possible and the most daring places. It is advertising in a way but most aren't doing it to sell anything, just their reputation. IMHO it isn't pretty and detracts from the environment rather than some of the more elaborate tagging and streetart which can add something. In regards to PR it's one that eludes me with a lot of art. What makes one mans work worth millions when most of us can do the same or better? Is it because they were first? Did they have a certain piece of work or event that made them? e.g. Won Turner Prize, bought by Saatchi?........ We should do a PR test. Let's hype ploppi and a prize to whomever gets him the best exposure. We are all taggers or vandals or graffiti artists or free thinkers when we are young.
How many school desks have names written on them or carved into them or some form of graffiti by school children.
It's done naturally and without thinking of the legal aspects of damaging government property when people are young.
I did a fair bit without thinking of why I did it or the legalities.
When one is an adult, wherever they go they think in their subconscious, can't do that, it's illegal, big brother is watching etc.
When we refer to tagging, does that include your 'Wild Style' type pieces? I differentiate that from basic text tagging. To me basic text tagging is just vandalism and basically a competition to spray in as many places as possible and the most daring places. It is advertising in a way but most aren't doing it to sell anything, just their reputation. IMHO it isn't pretty and detracts from the environment rather than some of the more elaborate tagging and streetart which can add something. In regards to PR it's one that eludes me with a lot of art. What makes one mans work worth millions when most of us can do the same or better? Is it because they were first? Did they have a certain piece of work or event that made them? e.g. Won Turner Prize, bought by Saatchi?........ We should do a PR test. Let's hype ploppi and a prize to whomever gets him the best exposure. We are all taggers or vandals or graffiti artists or free thinkers when we are young. How many school desks have names written on them or carved into them or some form of graffiti by school children. It's done naturally and without thinking of the legal aspects of damaging government property when people are young. I did a fair bit without thinking of why I did it or the legalities. When one is an adult, wherever they go they think in their subconscious, can't do that, it's illegal, big brother is watching etc.
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mlocks
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May 2014
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by mlocks on Jan 7, 2016 12:14:32 GMT 1, When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word. Short of leaving the work unattributed, which some artists tend to do from time to time, it's impossible for a street artist to exhibit their work without exposure to the public - such egalitarian element being an inherent component of the movement itself. So you would be correct in stating that the general public is temporarily "forced" to view and/or contemplate (and maybe even enjoy) a piece of street art, much the same as everyone being compelled to endure a never ending stream of Kentucky fried chicken and boner pill advertisements.
The obvious distinction between the two being that one simply adds beauty, humor or social commentary to the world (and in the best instances all three) at little or no cost to the consumer, while the other acts as an involuntary means of manipulating, exploiting and controlling the public purely for monetary or political gain. The more corrupt and insidious injustice being that the powers controlling the latter of these two purposes have in most cases deemed the former purpose to be illegal and punishable by way of criminal penalties, which is complete bulls**t, much like the notion of street art being likened to fast food advertisements.
Or to put it more poignantly:
"People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply youโre not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.
f**k that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. Itโs yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.
You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially donโt owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, donโt even start asking for theirs."
-Banksy
When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word. Short of leaving the work unattributed, which some artists tend to do from time to time, it's impossible for a street artist to exhibit their work without exposure to the public - such egalitarian element being an inherent component of the movement itself. So you would be correct in stating that the general public is temporarily "forced" to view and/or contemplate (and maybe even enjoy) a piece of street art, much the same as everyone being compelled to endure a never ending stream of Kentucky fried chicken and boner pill advertisements. The obvious distinction between the two being that one simply adds beauty, humor or social commentary to the world (and in the best instances all three) at little or no cost to the consumer, while the other acts as an involuntary means of manipulating, exploiting and controlling the public purely for monetary or political gain. The more corrupt and insidious injustice being that the powers controlling the latter of these two purposes have in most cases deemed the former purpose to be illegal and punishable by way of criminal penalties, which is complete bulls**t, much like the notion of street art being likened to fast food advertisements. Or to put it more poignantly: "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply youโre not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. f**k that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. Itโs yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially donโt owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, donโt even start asking for theirs." -Banksy
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natstan
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,806
Likes โข 1,127
March 2013
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by natstan on Jan 7, 2016 15:20:32 GMT 1, I enjoy many of your posts and will disagree with you here. To argue "Street Art = Advertising", on the basis that advertising is "anything really", is pretty much an admission that the original statement is meaningless โ becauseย everythingย can then be considered advertising. If this is truly the position, the original statement also becomes pointless, since the term "advertising"ย ceases to retain any specific or commonly-agreed meaning.
Art is about bringing an artistic intent or vision across to the recipients. Advertising is bringing a message, service or brand to the consumers. So I see a link there.
The only difference is the results that may come out of it. While art on the street is not always about money, I think many street artists (at least those who are doing it as part of an art career rather than hobby) are, directly or indirectly, promoting his own brand name by working in the streets. Inevitably, the more audience he gains and the more recognised he gets, financial gains will come one way or the other. Whether it is to get more shows from galleries or to be able to demand higher fees for his works off the streets. I hate to mention the smell of money that can come from making prints, but one look at dolk tells you that releasing 3 mediocre prints at one shot can really make you quite a tidy sum of money. More importantly, banksy has led the way showing many others what can come out of it by succeeding as a street artist.
Yes, I don't doubt there are artists who may not care about money, but I am sure one undisputable purpose of putting works in a public space is to derive personal satisfaction by gaining the recognition by others of his art. And working on the streets just happens to offer him the maximum exposure, what with the proliferation of social media too.
Hence, it's naive to think a street artist has no agenda to fufil, be it financial gains or personal satisfaction. Unless he is a juvenile delinquent who has nothing better to do. Advertising is not a dirty word, and doesn't always mean a financial benefit must come out of it.
I enjoy many of your posts and will disagree with you here. To argue "Street Art = Advertising", on the basis that advertising is "anything really", is pretty much an admission that the original statement is meaningless โ becauseย everythingย can then be considered advertising. If this is truly the position, the original statement also becomes pointless, since the term "advertising"ย ceases to retain any specific or commonly-agreed meaning. Art is about bringing an artistic intent or vision across to the recipients. Advertising is bringing a message, service or brand to the consumers. So I see a link there. The only difference is the results that may come out of it. While art on the street is not always about money, I think many street artists (at least those who are doing it as part of an art career rather than hobby) are, directly or indirectly, promoting his own brand name by working in the streets. Inevitably, the more audience he gains and the more recognised he gets, financial gains will come one way or the other. Whether it is to get more shows from galleries or to be able to demand higher fees for his works off the streets. I hate to mention the smell of money that can come from making prints, but one look at dolk tells you that releasing 3 mediocre prints at one shot can really make you quite a tidy sum of money. More importantly, banksy has led the way showing many others what can come out of it by succeeding as a street artist. Yes, I don't doubt there are artists who may not care about money, but I am sure one undisputable purpose of putting works in a public space is to derive personal satisfaction by gaining the recognition by others of his art. And working on the streets just happens to offer him the maximum exposure, what with the proliferation of social media too. Hence, it's naive to think a street artist has no agenda to fufil, be it financial gains or personal satisfaction. Unless he is a juvenile delinquent who has nothing better to do. Advertising is not a dirty word, and doesn't always mean a financial benefit must come out of it.
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saucyjack
New Member
Posts โข 197
Likes โข 74
November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 7, 2016 19:41:04 GMT 1, Good stuff in here. Thanks for all the replies. It looks like we have a good old fashioned semantic argument on our hands.
As for the Ploppi PR Experiment, it's been done already, in ETTGS. In no way am I comparing the art of the two. The idea of taking a relative unknown, and through expert PR, turning them into a successful artist almost overnight has been done. Seems to me that the film proved that such a thing is indeed possible.
Good stuff in here. Thanks for all the replies. It looks like we have a good old fashioned semantic argument on our hands. As for the Ploppi PR Experiment, it's been done already, in ETTGS. In no way am I comparing the art of the two. The idea of taking a relative unknown, and through expert PR, turning them into a successful artist almost overnight has been done. Seems to me that the film proved that such a thing is indeed possible.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 20:03:36 GMT 1, I wonder does it help bad to middling PR companies to have a good Artist in bed with them?.
Of course it does.
I wonder does it help bad to middling PR companies to have a good Artist in bed with them?.
Of course it does.
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saucyjack
New Member
Posts โข 197
Likes โข 74
November 2015
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by saucyjack on Jan 7, 2016 20:19:19 GMT 1, I wonder does it help bad to middling PR companies to have a good Artist in bed with them?. Of course it does. That is an excellent point. The symbiotic relationship between the artist and his/her PR team is an interesting one. It's hard for me not to draw a parallel to the music industry. Showing my age here, but back in the 90's when I first heard Nirvana on a Sub Pop compilation called Sub Pop 200, I knew they were something special. Apparently lots of others thought so too and their meteoric rise is well known. Point is, they didn't stay with Sub Pop.
Do artists behave similarly? I mean, a small PR outfit can only take you so far. The big boys have far greater reach, and much deeper pockets. Both essential, if you want to expand your brand.
I wonder does it help bad to middling PR companies to have a good Artist in bed with them?. Of course it does. That is an excellent point. The symbiotic relationship between the artist and his/her PR team is an interesting one. It's hard for me not to draw a parallel to the music industry. Showing my age here, but back in the 90's when I first heard Nirvana on a Sub Pop compilation called Sub Pop 200, I knew they were something special. Apparently lots of others thought so too and their meteoric rise is well known. Point is, they didn't stay with Sub Pop. Do artists behave similarly? I mean, a small PR outfit can only take you so far. The big boys have far greater reach, and much deeper pockets. Both essential, if you want to expand your brand.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 21:40:08 GMT 1, Saatchi and Saatchi was a PR company.
Don't know if it did anything with artists?
Bad to middling would be ones without many contacts?
If they are good at sales pitch and get some doors open, the rest should be easier.
Simon Cowell promoted Roland Rat when he was a very small company and look at him now.
I'd say that it's better to have a marketable artist rather than a good artist for a PR company.
Elvis stayed with Colonel Parker and maybe with a more savvy PR company Elvis would have been much better off regarding many things including his films he starred in.
Jeff Koons is an example of PR and a lot of money.
Banky's anonimity was one facter in his marketing regarding his PR company but thats just my view as I see it.
Saatchi and Saatchi was a PR company. Don't know if it did anything with artists? Bad to middling would be ones without many contacts? If they are good at sales pitch and get some doors open, the rest should be easier. Simon Cowell promoted Roland Rat when he was a very small company and look at him now. I'd say that it's better to have a marketable artist rather than a good artist for a PR company. Elvis stayed with Colonel Parker and maybe with a more savvy PR company Elvis would have been much better off regarding many things including his films he starred in. Jeff Koons is an example of PR and a lot of money. Banky's anonimity was one facter in his marketing regarding his PR company but thats just my view as I see it.
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d.r. perseus
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,569
Likes โข 1,747
December 2014
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by d.r. perseus on Jan 8, 2016 5:01:27 GMT 1, When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word. I do not think creating or establishing an Identity (as a good street artist does either purposely or inadvertently) is the same as advertising although advertising requires the establishment of some kind of identity for a consumer to desire or relate (to a product or brand). They can be mutually exclusive with street art IMO.
I think you are confusing "selling a name" for producing ideas that are in a sense beyond consumption. I will use banksy as an example. I personally do not like ANY of his prints. I dont even care that they exist (I am sure an unpopular opinion here). His identity to me isn't even based on his prints but rather his insightful and bold graf like the stuff he has done in Gaza. I am not even sure how you could call that work adverts. Making a political statement or pointing out injustice and suffering as an advert for prints produced long ago in a secondary market he doesnt even (entirely) benefit from....
By what seems your working definition though, this forum exists as one large banksy advertisement...
wow that all sound like BS but it works in my mind.
When an artist puts their name out there in the form of street art, that is advertising. Taggers, street artists, whatever you want to call them, want put their name out there as many times a possible, in as many places as possible, to get their name out there. While they may not be selling a product, they are selling their name. Right? Otherwise, write in a journal or work at home. Right? The point is that many of these artists want people to see it. As is natural for an artist. And IT IS A GOOD THING BECAUSE I LOVE ART. But it's advertising too, no? As Fake said, it isn't a dirty word. I do not think creating or establishing an Identity (as a good street artist does either purposely or inadvertently) is the same as advertising although advertising requires the establishment of some kind of identity for a consumer to desire or relate (to a product or brand). They can be mutually exclusive with street art IMO. I think you are confusing "selling a name" for producing ideas that are in a sense beyond consumption. I will use banksy as an example. I personally do not like ANY of his prints. I dont even care that they exist (I am sure an unpopular opinion here). His identity to me isn't even based on his prints but rather his insightful and bold graf like the stuff he has done in Gaza. I am not even sure how you could call that work adverts. Making a political statement or pointing out injustice and suffering as an advert for prints produced long ago in a secondary market he doesnt even (entirely) benefit from.... By what seems your working definition though, this forum exists as one large banksy advertisement... wow that all sound like BS but it works in my mind.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 13:17:49 GMT 1, I personally don't see this forum as one big Banksy advert.
I see it as an urban art forum where Banksy fans and collectors can get together.
The truth is that if it wasn't for Banksy, a lot of known artists today would not be as successful, as Banksy opened the door to people wanting to buy their art and prints.
The Banksy knock on effect.
Also the Banksy name and art on this forum attracts a lot of visitors.
I personally don't see this forum as one big Banksy advert.
I see it as an urban art forum where Banksy fans and collectors can get together.
The truth is that if it wasn't for Banksy, a lot of known artists today would not be as successful, as Banksy opened the door to people wanting to buy their art and prints.
The Banksy knock on effect.
Also the Banksy name and art on this forum attracts a lot of visitors.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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The Role of PR in Street/Urban Art (or vice versa), by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 13:31:59 GMT 1,
proof positive that not all advertising is bad
proof positive that not all advertising is bad
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